Pros and Cons of Moving to the UK

Mononoke28 says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:02:

If you can afford to live in Colombia, then why don't you stay and just go to the UK for vacation? Especially if his family is saying it's a bad idea. Seriously.

Diana

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morphus says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:06:

You should come to New York. You will forget all about Barry after being here 3 days. YOu will say to yourself "what was I thinking".

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RUV says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:10:

Why are they saying it is a bad idea?

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Lauthra says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:13:

They say the cost of living there is way to expensive, and the standard of living isn't all that good.

Nato (='.'=)

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morphus says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:17:

This Colombiana once liked British blokes. Then she went to Queens, New York and was cured :)

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Mononoke28 says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:23:

Queens = Hoochieville. I hate that place. Roosevelt Avenue is too damn dirty and icky for me.

Diana

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:28:

Yes it is more expensive and is getting even more, petrol is over the roof £1,15 a litre , the weather is horrible, they are targeting motorist specially if you own a 4x4 so your tax it's going to be more expensive, gas and electricity went up in prices, some say we are probably heading towards a recession who knows but look at the pound against the peso it went down quiet a lot. Jobs are getting harder too to many cheap labor from abroad...house prices are ridiculous high, I am planing maybe next year to spend more time in Colombia than here....

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:34:

pros: nice wine :)))

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Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:40:

CONS.........

paying 51% of your earnings if successful to a high spending govt

paying 250 US dollars property tax a month to a tonto en londres

no-one saying hello or goodbye when you go to work everyday

mucho silencio especialmente en el metro o las busetas

highest food and petrol costs in western europe

more new great terrestrial tv featuring z list celebrities like lily allen, russell brand, brian carr,who ?

having to spend a lot on wet weather clotihng and heating

lving on an island with consistent rain yet still having drought warnings

always coming second best in sporting events but still celebrating

the great british benefits system if you dont work, you grow em we feed em and cloth em and house em.

people moaning and complaining a lot about the weather and everyday things despite having things a hundred times better than the colombianos.

get used to having 'la cruda' or' la resaca' cos people drink like its going out of fashion here..

este es suficiente por ahorita

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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Noelito40 says on Mar 31, 2008, 10:47:

I'm moved here from Ireland 6 months ago, (I'm here for a year or two) but as my missus is Colombian I'm looking to extend my stay here...

In many ways Ireland is similar to the UK and so (in my opinion!!) there is only one reason to go back home...work! Everything else is better here, the weather, the food, the people, the health system... Basically, if you have a good standard of living in Colombia I'd say stay here...but of course there's the rub!

Noelito

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 11:37:

We are becoming a nanie state
children having to much power
education failing students
Having just 3 season cuz summer doesn't exist

tax tax tax tax for everything!!!!!

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monoingles says on Mar 31, 2008, 11:39:

Me and my Mrs. are actually going the other way and moving to Colombia. Mainly because of what other people have said about petrol, taxes, working too hard etc. but mainly because of the social life, over here you it is difficult be it because of money, time, work or weather. In Colombia it is very different socially and we have just had a baby and that has made us decide to go to Colombia to have a better life. If you do decide to come over here then I would wait because everything is getting difficult and expensive over here. If you want to get a mortgage up need a 10% deposit and the house prices are still high and that still doesn't mean that you'll get one, especially with no credit history. It is going to take at least two years for the economy to get back on track and that is if it doesn't get any worse.
My advice is to stay there and enjoy it!!!

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Lauthra says on Mar 31, 2008, 11:39:

Thank you all for the input :) Looks like we're going to have to find somewhere else in Europe, Barcelona tal vez?

Nato (='.'=)

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paulr says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:00:

I´ve travelled quite a bit of this crazy world and there are 3 or 4 places that i have found on my journey that i would be very happy living: Australia in general but loved the west coast, Argentina, Salta or Buenos Aires, Barcelona and Medellín, which is the place i chose, mainly because of the climate and the friendly people. Barcelona is cold in the winter and a bit pricy but one of the most wonderful and vibrant cities in the world.

These is no way i would even consider moving back to the UK, they drain every penny out of you and the working man(or woman) has less benefits than a lot of people who prefer to sit on there arses and take off the state.

Life is like a ten-speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use.

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NataliaV says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:04:

Lauthra, why not stay in Colombia? What draws you to the UK? So many of us are considering doing it the other way around and moving to Colombia. just curious as to why you would want to leave?

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usher127 says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:19:

I'm from the UK... if you have an excellent career in the UK... i'm talking at least $100k plus a year... then maybe it's worth it... to build up some capitol. Or maybe you want to do it for a few years just to see what it's like. Fair enough.

If not, why? I think it's a really miserable, boring place.

Colombians get very exited about the exchange rate with the peso, pound, dolar, etc. But, then completely fail to account for the fact that things cost more in London.

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usher127 says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:20:

Though, worth remembering, most people on this website love Colombia. Go to any bar in the UK and they will think you are crazy to live here... except for... weirdly... barry's family.

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kalder says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:20:

As someone who dwells all too often on the cons, I'll take a punt at some pros:

1. The countryside is beautiful (and the people can be very friendly in the sticks).

2. Its awash with historical and literary associations.

3. The best theatre and live music scene in Europe.

4. Excellent universities.

5. More-or-less corruption free national/civic institutions.

6. Best army in the world.

7. The majority of the people may be reserved, but they're also tolerant and peaceable.

8. Excellent seafood.

9. Good beer.

10. Compared to other countries, it's got a remarkably literate population: An awful lot of people take a daily newspaper, read books etc.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:27:

muy muy positivo kalder

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:29:

"Best army in the world"?

As a reason for living in the UK?

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Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:41:

numero uno... our streets in the UK are not too well maintained and can be dangerous




numero dos....our fire service is one of the most attentive in europe...




numero tres....you can always be guaranteed a warm welcome at our famous football stadiums




y ultimatamente...if you get lost here you can always find someone to help you get your bearings.....

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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kalder says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:46:

The army thing? I was wondering how long it'd take...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kalder says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:48:

That's terrible about the elderly woman juanes. I hope some ambulance chasing hack picked up on that for her.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Ryan619 says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:55:

Juanes=Comedy

Moment to moment living.

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Lauthra says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:56:

Reason to move to the UK or Europe for that matter, my b.f.'s work.

Nato (='.'=)

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:31:

Let's not forget the single best reason to move to the UK... They're kinky as hell!

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/3003_nazi_orgy.shtml

As much as Elmo likes to rave about Colombian hookers, good luck finding 5 Colombian girls who will dress like Nazi guards and concentration camp victims, speak German and whip you at the same time.

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ConorC says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:31:

So what is the level of income tax in Colombia? I've heard Corporation Tax is crippling.

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Cerealkiller says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:56:

Lauthra, I personally love living in London - i dont think id be happy anywhere else in the UK- you get to meet people from every corner of the world, eat wonderful international meals anytime, international travel is cheap ...imagine taking a holiday in Africa from Colombia!!! Awesome parties, great concerts...you have a lot of facilities to change the direction of your career...
Yes the weather sucks ass, but so what? you can always take city breaks to spain or italy and actually think continental europe is cheap!!! You're a young person, dont have any children... just give it a try, you can always return to colombia...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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curramberochris says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:59:

Well, I ahve been in Colombia 4 years with yearly trips back to the UK.
I am getting married here in Barranquilla in 2 weeks and my girlfriend is also expecting.

I do miss a lot of things from back home.......but they are more to do with my friends and family.

I think as a foreigner you are limited in what you can do in Colombia with regards to jobs. Enterprise and wealth is much more welcome and attainable back home.
You can`t knock the Social Welfare system until you come and live in Colombia. After 4 years I still have no idea how to call an ambulance.


I will bring up my children in the UK...on the Isle of Man. Schooling here is expensive and I do not want to bring much child up in the estrato based, muchacha dependent society.

I can`t see myself leaving Colombia in the near future but I will raise my children on the IOM or in Europe. They can come and learn about the joys of Colombia and Barranquilla but without being exposed to some of the more unpleasant parts of society here.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 14:59:

Kalder yes the UK has some positive thing but as ulsher said if you have a good salary then the UK it's great specially that you can bugger off somewhere sunny most of the time heheh but petrol going high on prices who knows for how long we are going to have this cheap flights.


But it is expensive, yes if you are single and don't have kids and don't plan to pay a mortgage then come over here, to tell you the truth i won't swap Colombia to come and live in London in one of those depressing areas i would hate it, and to find a cheap house in London you have to move there because central London is just for the rich, even renting it's expensive if you have some help from somebody else maybe easier, as a single person with not obligations well you can enjoy the UK but when you got a family every penny is drained, i am a bit lucky that we have a company but still the expenses are high and its tax over tax, another thing i would not like to be a first time buyer in the UK at the moment.

Kalder Universities good but you have to find the money, and if you ask for a grant when you finish your career you will be still paying for that grant i don't know for how many years, here there are lots of students in debts.

Don't get me wrong i like the UK but i have noticed that here everything is work work work.

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NataliaV says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:02:

Kat - do you plan on making the move for good to colombia in time?

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:03:

In London a 2 bedroom house in a not very pretty area can seat you back 180.000 to 200.000 pounds and maybe i am going cheap here ..

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:09:

my plans are, as the kids become more independent then I will move to Colombia for most of the time maybe come here just for a few months, we won't sell the house so we will have a place when we come back to visit.

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ConorC says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:09:

200,000? You're a bit optimistic! I was back home in Belfast last week and was shocked to see two bed apartments (one bathroom) in commuting distance to Belfast going for that price, so I dread to think what it's like in central london. Mind you, I live in the nice tax haven of Jersey, where I'm not even allowed to buy a house!

I was thinking if you were in the fortunate position of buying a house/flat outright in Colombia then your monthly salary (two with the wife) would leave you in a comfortable position (depending on job of course)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:12:

I agree I am being a bit optimistic but i am not referring to central London more like the suburbs and still i am being a bit optimistic heheh...

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:18:

I don't try to put Lauthra off the best is for both of them to come over and stay with barry's family for sometime while they get sorted and try and see if it will work out.

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SiV says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:23:

Kat, I think for 200,000 quid you'd be lucky to get a cardboard box under Waterloo Bridge.

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 31, 2008, 15:28:

And that's why people get depressed here, they have to pay a high mortgage in a place where they are not even happy and the place it's not even beautiful,where you hardly see or know your neighbors , they can't sell because of the job and to put up every day going in that subway that stink. I was in a friend's place in London and i wanted to get out of there as soon as possible.

no thanks that's not for me....
Now I live in a pretty place but this has its downside too, Kids have to travel long distances to go to colleges or Uni.. buses run one every 3 hours the car here is not a luxury but a NECESSITY, and with petrol prices it cost a fortune..there is .not much choice of thing to do or jobs like in London not even Cardiff have that here Jobs are more limited

AND PUBS CLOSE AT 11:30 PM!!!! esto si me da rabia, porque a mi me emborrachan o me dejan como estaba :)))

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Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 17:05:

yes you are definately right about the house prices kat, but 200k gets you one bed in most greater london. i live in ealing and have big two bedder right near tube and its valued at 385k before the credit crunch obviously.......the hardest thing is here in uk cost of rental or buying....to borrow 200k in sterling normally here for last 5 years would cost you 725 to 750 per month interest only.....now and for the next four years the same amount is costing the average uk householder 1100 pounds per month.......even though are banks have been frugal compared to some of their us counterparts, our country is heading for a 4-5 year period of rising food/oil prices / high credit/mortgage costs & a stagflation situation....

so colombia, brasil, argentina are experiencing more econmic growth and a better situation i believe at present....im really annoyed that the cost of lending here in the uk is 5.25% but i have to pay 5.99%....the states people have a much lower situation with the fed rate at 3% and with the pound/dollar situation unlikely to change i would advise against a move to the uk at present....

if you earn good money like i did in financial services/banking then all well and good but now im on normal money london is fast coming unaffordable..

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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Lauthra says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:43:

Kat1, of course we'd have to stay with Barry's parents to start with. It's not definite that we're moving, just exploring the options, England doesn't sound that likely now...

Nato (='.'=)

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MitchAlvarez says on Mar 31, 2008, 18:49:

ni porque me pagen me voy pa inglaterra. ni por el putas pues.... hell no!!

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:51:

vea usted

Kalder, well said !

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usher127 says on Mar 31, 2008, 20:10:

Remember Lauthra... everybody here is pro Colombia... why not try England for a few years and try to make some money... you might love, many people do.

When I say I hate London, its mostly because I spent 10 years there and got bored... maybe I will hate Medellin in 10 years.

That said.. where in the UK were u thinking of going?

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Lauthra says on Mar 31, 2008, 20:15:

London. We'd be at Maidenhead to begin with cos that's where my b.f.'s family is. I have been in England, spent two days in the Winter of 2002-2003 and LUV IT. In spite of the weather. The money situation does scare me a little, way I see it, I don't expect to be making lots of money as soon as I get there, but then if I'm still doing crappy jobs in two years time, then we'd prolly head back. I'm all confufled now, so much to think of.

Nato (='.'=)

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usher127 says on Mar 31, 2008, 20:24:

So long as your'e not going there for the money, that's good. And so long as you have a family behind you then its perfect.

I mean... lets face it, its not easy to make ends meet in Colombia... but somehow Colombians stick together and it becomes manageable...

in London it often feels like a race and even if you make good money you end up feeling poor because so many people have more than you. But, if you come from Colombia it may take a while for you to feel like that.

Sounds to me like you should go.. especially as you might not always have the opportunity. Just keep an open mind about long-term plans.

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robi666 says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:10:

Do we really want to talk about the fantastic food you may normally have in an English house?
Or the beautiful women?
Or the fantastic weather?
Or the cornwall beaches? Good for penguins...
But I absolutely love their cars, I'd buy a TVR Tuscan or a Marcus Mantis or a Lotus Elise an be an happy child for awhile... my brother sold my XKR last week in Rome and I am not going to see it again :(

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:53:

I assume you are being facetious. I have it on good authority that London has the best looking women (and perhaps men) in the world. This coming from a model. I can't say I disagree, and I've been to Argentina, and lived in Colombia.

Cornwall is beautiful.

The English summers are way better than Canadian summers, for instance. Their dreary winters too for that matter, i'd take rain and fog over -20 degrees.

A good roast meal is better than the crap you're gonna get in North America. I can say I know more good British cooks per capita than i've ever found anywhere else in the world. It's the German food I can't stand.

Anyway, I fear that yet another excuse to abuse and slander England has arisen, I hope most don't take it. It is a great land with so many opportunities. I'd check it out.

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:54:

And yes it has it's problems... which country doesn't?

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MitchAlvarez says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:55:

jaja he came out swingining. love itttt

but i dont know about the best lookign women buddy!!

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:55:

"Do we really want to talk about the fantastic food you may normally have in an English house?"

And this type of comment really really annoys me. The British schooling system has dreadful dreadful food, (no worse than Canadian school systems mind you) but that aside...

I come from a British family, and constantly spend time and live in many British houses, (mostly working class) and I eat better, healthier and tastier food than I've ever eaten in my life.

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goin_south says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:57:

But, it'll be a step up;
I'm thinking you will be able to move out of the cardboard box,
if you move to LondonTown.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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manINred says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:58:

"jaja he came out swingining. love itttt

but i dont know about the best lookign women buddy!!"

With all due respect, this type of thing will always be a matter of opinion. It depends on what you like, or not, as the case may be. Hell, the thousands of Colombian women definitely contribute to London's beauty, I'll be the first to admit that ;)

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goin_south says on Mar 31, 2008, 21:59:

why don't you just do it;
F*#k! you are young...
So what, if it doesn't work out?
What? Your boy friend's gonna dump ya?
You can ALWAYS go back to Queens and live in a dump with morphus.
Maybe he'lll let ya live inside that cool $20 black leather jacket...;-)

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Frank Rizzo says on Mar 31, 2008, 22:02:

Southern Calif.....got the best of all i've seen....the problem...is they got the worst attitude to match...you better be worth high 8 figures to knock em out the box in OC...

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goin_south says on Mar 31, 2008, 23:41:

that's mighty judgemental, rubito.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2008, 00:03:

well, I think she's just lookin for an umbrella to replace the cardboard box.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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houstongal says on Apr 1, 2008, 00:16:

Lauthra - Given your explanation, I say give it a shot. The least you can do is TRY and if you can't make it work, that's OK. The effort and experience is worth something! If you wait around until you can afford to do it, you may not ever have the chance. Life gets complicated and the dreams you have today may not be the dreams you have tomorrow.

So if your bf is going for a job and there's family support, then what's holding you back? I'm sure this is not something you'll do tomorrow so there's still time to save what you can to make it work. Don't let these guys discourage you. You're still young and can pick up and move with ease. Just do it!

And yes, being able to then travel throughout Europe once you have a job and some income will make all the hardships worthwhile. Do it for the lifetime of experiences you will have!

Oh and there are EXCELLENT Ashtanga yoga studios there! I loved the studio I went to somewhere in London. Had the most perfect vibe for me.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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travelingirl says on Apr 1, 2008, 00:26:

I'm with Houston! We only live once. If you end up hating it, you can leave, but you'd still have that experience that no one can take away from you. :)

Around her hair she wore a yellow ribbon...

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 00:49:

kat- You know, I'd totally forgotten about the cost of universities. They were free when I went. God, how the country's changed...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 00:54:

manINred- I remember nothing being prettier than the slim, perfectly coiffured and dressed, charming and gracious English girls of twenty five years ago. However, they seem not to have produced any offspring of equal calibre. We never quite had the crumpet of Italy, say, or Hungary, but they weren't bad at all. All gone now I'm afraid. Trans fats, cheap booze and the zeitgeist I suppose.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 01:13:

Oh come on, English universities are 4000 pounds a year per 3 years...kids are not going to stay in debt forever...compare that to american kids, I have friends who are not even 20 and already are 100k dollars in debt, thats freaking ridiculous!!! 4000 pounds a year is less that what youd be expected to pay at Los Andes, Sabana, Icesi and EAFIT.
Lauthra, give it a try,youve been here before, you loved it...You don't have any dependants, Im sure it'll be a memorable experience even if things don't pan out. As for flats, im sure you'll manage to find something decent if youre on two incomes. Is not like all the nice areas are in Central London. I don't think Id like to live in Central anyway, I live in wimbledon village (12 minutes to waterloo by train) and its absolutely gorgeous...lush green areas, awesome shopping, great restaurants... you won't need a car for anything...Go for it!!!

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 02:15:

For those of us not from the patrician classes, London is expensive and putting our kids through university not easy.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 02:33:

Lauthra- this may be of minor interest:

http://knowhere.co.uk/3181.html

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 02:36:

CK 4000 a year? but depends the Uni and the course, 4.000 plus you have to pay accommodation and subsistence while there the Government will help you but if you come from a low income family but if you don't...If you have a family who will help you then great you might end up no paying a loan but if you don't you have to borrow on top of the Uni fees, for the accommodation, and your living expenses and this while the course last so by the time you graduate you could be in debts by 14 to 15 thousand pounds if you come for a low income family yes probably you will have a bit of help but from a family earning 38.000 a year which don't classify as low income can't be extremely hard specially if you have more than one kid in Uni, so the student had to pay that back... and he won't get a good job straight away after graduating.No wonder many youngsters now are retorting to study Online.




I don't say that to live in the UK is bad but here to live well you need to work, work and work hard, not like in Colombia that you can have a great time with little money and the social life is better
but by no means Yes Lauthra should come and try and think she is been here before.

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 02:36:

Kalder I am not saying its cheap. But it is cheaper compared to the US and even some of the universities in Colombia. Yes it used to be free and I am sure its a pain in the ass for those who were here to witness the change, but if analyzed from the other side of the pond Im sure the perspective is different. Ask any american person on this board if they think 8 thousand dollars a year for tuition is extortionate...it isn't when compared to the US and some unis in Colombia. I am a student myself and trust me if i was paying 4k a year Id be ecstatic. Nothing to do with patrician classes...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 02:49:

Kat1 i am looking at the leading unis right now and here are some of the prices:

LSE: 3141 pounds for undegrads
Kings College: 3145 average
Oxford: 3145 (thats the price for the most expensive course)

Try medicine at Los Andes compared to Medicine at oxford:
Los Andes: 13 million pesos per SEMESTER
Oxford: 3145 Pounds per year

And these fees are for all european students not including whatever UK low income students get from the government.
In regards to living expenses and accomodation, it varies from 6 to 8 thousand pounds if living on campus, but there are several people who go to their local uni an live at home, others who share flats for less money and others who actually get a part time job and pay for their personal expenses. Im not making this up, Im a freaking student, I know this stuff.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 03:25:

I know that Rubito, I got sidetracked. Apologies for the thread hijacking. I was just giving my POV on some of the cons which make the UK such a horrible, nasty place to live compared to Colombia where everything is perfect, people have awesome lives and money grows on trees...especially in the case of recent graduates like Lauthra.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 03:35:

yes but still Ck an student who hasn't got a help from family will find it hard, by the government grands even if you are a low income student it's very low, then by the time you finish your course you could be 15.000 or more in debt, and you only repay that when you get a job above 15.000 a salary a year i believe so to get into the property ladder with already that debt it is going to be difficult.

an you are talking more about undergraduate fees. and remember some of this course are 5 years = if you want a postgraduate in some careers the fee can be up to 7.000.

I don't know about you but i have a friend here who was studying Geography in the UNi of Sussex and she found it hard, she came from a low income family the Government grand was a about 1,500 pound by the time she would have finish she said she would've been in a higher debt and never be able to get a house.

we talking here middle to low income family and 8.000 pound for a family is a lot imaging for an student.

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 03:45:

Kat1 there are tons of scholarships for postgrad degrees both in the UK and the US. Bear in mind Im not saying its cheap and awesome, but seriously...Look at loans from Icetex in Colombia, they give you 16 million pesos and you end up paying 52 after only 5 years (doesnt matter if you have a job or not)!!! If you don't believe me go to their page and play with the figures...

15k pounds in debt for a degree is not awful taking into account that the UK is pretty much on the same level as the US. In addition, the only 5 year program in the UK is medicine the rest are 3 (4 if you're in scotland but thats a completely different system).

Just make a comparison between US and UK students: US students in the same conditions as those owing 15 or 20k pounds in the UK are 150-200 thousand dollars in debt in the US... so tell me, how much in debt would you rather be? Because to me, the difference is HUGE.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 03:50:

Ck the UK it's not a horrible place to live if you have a good income, Look even barry's family said not come here, if they want the future here, What are we saying is it is not going to be a bed of roses either not the AMERICAN DREAM here yes you can get a job but don't expect a well paid job from the beginning and life here it's expensive, so be prepared to work hard, remember we have graduates for all over the world specially from Eastern Europe coming here who are prepared to work cheaply, look at Pharmacists, we are having a massive invasion of Polish and Spanish pharmacist who are prepared to work for peanuts, why I know this because my brother in law is a pharmacist he owns a pharmacist his daughter is becoming a pharmacist and he said the wages are lower now there are too many.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 03:53:

I am not comparing the UK with the USA this is another thing, the USA is worse :)

My friend only lives with her mother and her mother makes 400 pounds a week + some government help which is not much, she can't help her daughter at all. so her daughter have to get a job in a restaurant for a couple of hours just to survive.

for her 15.000 debts it is hell of a lot of money.

The good thing about Barry and Lauthra is that they haven't got any kids, so less responsibilities. but they said it takes 100.000 a year to raised a kid and i think it is true, specially when it comes to childcare.

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:09:

Life isn't a bed of roses here or in colombia or in timbuktu. Similarly, well paid jobs when you're first starting are shit everywhere so there is no point in comparing that sort of thing. In addition, no graduate from eastern europe will work for less than a local graduate. That only applies to manual labor, not to mention that it is illegal to pay lower wages to skilled workers when their credentials are the same as local ones earning more. So your pharmacist example is flawed, wages are lower because there is too much supply not because polish and spanish pharmacists work for peanuts.

15000 pounds is a lot of money when you're making 400 a week, but graduate jobs are around 15k -18k in London- if she were to stay with her mom for a year and work full time, shed be able to pay 20 to 30% of her debt, people in colombia cannot do that on icetex loans, let alone buy a house, especially now when house prices are soaring.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:45:

CK pharmacist usually earn from 17 to 20 pounds an hour, now if you are single, living with parents or with others then this is ok, a pharmacist owner will look for someone who is happy to work for £17.00 which for them it's plenty, but what about a family man with responsibilities, mortgage, uni fees, housebill? these people keep the wages down and the UK is becoming more expensive, many leave the profession and become something else. because they can't work for that it is not enough.

Another thing if you have family in London great, my friend's mother lives here where i live, where jobs are limited, when she goes to London she has to defend by herself.. not even a weekend home because the train tickets will be a week food shopping for her.

If you are Student with plenty of help then The UK it's great!! but if you are planing to start a family and live here with all responsibilities then prepare to work hard, and forget little luxuries that you used to enjoy in Colombia, where the best thing sometimes were free. :)))


Colombia is not easy either but it is not ridiculous expensive like here. Did you read on the other blog i wrote, that i sent to do an alteration on my daughter's dress a simple alteration and it cost me 16.000 pounds!!!

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:50:

I agree.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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ingles says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:51:

This going way back up the thread - Lauthra wrote "I have been in England, spent two days in the Winter of 2002-2003 and LUV IT."

Is that a typo - 2 days? Its pretty difficult to get an impression of a place in 2 days.

For what its worth, the dilemma is a difficult one. If you plan on returning to Colombia in the long run, I would say give it a go over here. You can hopefully save money to take back to Colombia and live more comfortably over there. If planning on staying in UK/europe long term there are major difficulties getting on the property ladder without capital and renting is in my opinion dead money.

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Juanes says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:55:

thats a bit generous robi....about out beautiful women, as a resident i would have to say

brasil
venzuela
colombia
france/italy/spain
cuba

come before the english girls

i reckon, come to london in 2012 when we will be moving out of recession, house prices will have fallen 10% 2009 & 10-20% 2010, so this will be a better time to relocate here..ive worked in economics, finance, mortgage market here in london since 1996 so im saying this with a bit of knowledge..

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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robi666 says on Apr 1, 2008, 04:55:

Hey MiR, you're right, I was being too hard... joking a bit.
But, I am in a moment of life when UK would be one of the last country where I'd live.
I visited London many times, and spent months in Torquay and Eastbourne. But it was many years ago.
Cornwall beaches are scenic beauty, but, I don't know... I seem to prefer Santa Marta at this time.

No pun intended, UK is a great nation and English are great people. Would be stupid to say the contrary.
But there is only one reason for a Colombian to move there (or the States or everywhere else in Europe): money.

Now, let me concentrate on Roma - Manchester, hoping that we do not get 7...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:07:

Italy
Hungary
Syria
Colombia
Serbia
Austria

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:10:

Im assuming you mean 16.00 pounds. And I think your points are valid, I don't agree, but I suppose it is a matter of perspective. I truly believe that London is a better place to get started than Colombia, people in colombia live with their parents until they get married because they cannot afford to live on their own. People here learn to live on their own at a very young age, with flatmates or roomates but being financially independent nonetheless. There are tons of graduates in Colombia who have been applying to jobs for at least a year.
I just think that a lot people on this forum travel to Colombia with their pounds and dollars and think everything is so cheap and great. But it is freaking hard for someone earning pesos to buy property, going on holiday, pay for school...many of my friends in Colombia graduated last year and are in the US taking a year off and flipping burgers because getting a job in colombia was so difficult, that they are doing more working and travelling in the US than staying at home.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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robi666 says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:10:

You guys have never been to Iceland or Sweden?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:10:

robi666, people come here for the money but only if you are planing to save that money and spend it in Colombia, but here you seem to work and work earn a lot but still money is tight. and that's why many people here is depressed

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:13:

"But there is only one reason for a Colombian to move there (or the States or everywhere else in Europe): money"

I beg to differ, but that's only me.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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robi666 says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:14:

"robi666, people come here for the money but only if you are planing to save that money and spend it in Colombia"
That's what I was meaning, Kat.
Go there, work 12 hours a day, make a strict life and hope to save some good money for later buy an house and open a small business in Colombia.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 05:45:

Sweden.

I thought them a tad butch.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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MitchAlvarez says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:27:

Lauthra Ill make it easy on you.........the hell with london.

Leave your boyfriend and come move with me in NYC.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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houstongal says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:33:

No offense folks, but my impression from Lauthra was this was not a long-term live in the UK forever kind of arrangement. But certainly for a few years, this would be a good experience for them both.

I always advocate young people to spend some time living outside of your country, especially when you don't have the responsibilities of children and the other burdens you have when you're older. My company pays big bucks to give future leaders this type of cultural experience in order to develop and grow them into the leaders of tomorrow. These kinds of challenges that Lauthra and Barry will have to face will reap them HUGE rewards in the long run (possibly even careerwise). And being financially strapped will be one of their biggest challenges. All of your advice have given them a realistic preview of life in the UK.

I hope they decide to use this as an excellent real-world learning opportunity and give it a shot. Life is boring if you don't face challenges from time to time.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:41:

Just judging by the girls I have seen here in the US that are here on work visas, I would say Ukraine, Romania, Czech Republic, and Poland have some rather attractive women.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:44:

Those Eastern Euro babes are hot!

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:48:

Some can be rather cold at first, but just judging physical beauty ... jaw dropping.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:54:

Yeah, they're nice alright. I know plenty of guys who've taken up with Czech or Polish girls. They've no problem with guys 10/15 years their senior.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 06:58:

Thats always good

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El Polo says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:00:

note to self!!

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Lauthra says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:22:

Hehehe sorry, That is a typo, I meant to say two months :P teehee. You guys helped a lot, I do think giving it a try it's the best way to go, I'm young enough to still manage, not that young, but still.

We'd be moving with the idea to stay permanently, but if things don't pan out, the of course we'd have no problem coming back, or going somewhere else who knows. Life is too unpredictable to say. I'm certain our careers would benefit, well, I hope so, he is the game designing and I'm in film/tv.

Gracias a todos.

Nato (='.'=)

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:31:

Just go there for the money! Meet a rich man like Kat1 did :)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:38:

Not morphus he is not rich, but a hard working man, and he is where is he now by not by sitting on his ass all day or chasing 18 year olds ;P he is lucky that he has a wife that have been backing him for nearly 19 years.:)

The company was an adventure from both us and after 4 years of hard work we are enjoying the rewards :)

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:38:

And that's the downside of the East European babe/older man routine. I should have said 'they've no problem with guys 10/15 years their senior. If he's got money.'

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 1, 2008, 07:55:

I'd love to go live in the UK for a year or so.....and really love Italy for a year....never been to europe...!!

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houstongal says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:03:

What? How can that be Frank?! Spending too much time commuting to Colombia or Hawaii on your time off!

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:09:

What about you Kat? You seem to be looking for a boy toy.

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:16:

I know HG....but never to Europe....... i gotta go....

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houstongal says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:21:

Just forego one of those trips and go! Well, maybe not now...too expensive.

That's why I only go home every other year....to travel to other places.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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robi666 says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:26:

I have never been to the States (yes, the USVI, but it does not count).

The fact is that it is terribly dangerous up there.
I mean, kids shooting in schools, all those arms in the streets, those big policemen, they fine you for everything and you cannot even bribe them, all those videos with big violent rappers, that President with mad eyes, and Morphus may be looking for me... I don't know... I am scared.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 08:32:

you mean a toy boy Morphus... :))

nahhhhhhh I like older men believe or not :))))

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 09:09:

Well, you had a chance with Elmo but blew it.

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Juanes says on Apr 1, 2008, 09:14:

whats happened to elmo anyway, back in 2006 he was posting more than the royal mail.

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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morphus says on Apr 1, 2008, 09:25:

Elmo was a result of downtime at work and lots of imagination.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 1, 2008, 10:41:

Kat, if you've been backing your husband for 19 years he must have totally robbed the cradle to get you.

Just another English pirate stealing Colombia's treasure, I'm sure.

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britabroad says on Apr 1, 2008, 11:42:

London is full of "immigrants" who have gone there looking to save up a load of money so they can return to their own country one day ..... rich.
Doesn't hardly ever work because the British system doesn't allow it to work. So any attempt at doing this will probably fail unless you're walking into a very highly paid job from the off.
If you want to live there for a few years to see the culture, architecture, learn the history, or just to live in a basically secure environment (compared to many countries), you could do a lot worse than England.
I'd steer clear of the South East though, especially London. The house prices are excessive and beyond the reach of many. "English Culture" is overshadowed by other cultures and ghetto areas are starting to emerge. For example, Inner East London is predominantly Bangladeshi, South West London is predominantly Afro Carribbean (and much of North London too), South East London, particularly around the Elephant and Castle, has a large South American population, parts of posh Notting Hill aren't posh at all and are home to West Indians and Morroccons. Eastern Europeans are everywhere...especially at traffic lights where they force you to let them wash your clean windscreen with dirty water.
There are, apparently, more native Brits leaving the UK each year than ever before, and more foreigners entering. Must be a reason for that!

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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britabroad says on Apr 1, 2008, 11:44:

..........having said that, I'd move back tomorrow if I could have just one McVities chocolate digestive biscuit.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2008, 11:46:

britabroad I am curious about notting hill, could you tell me more about that area? house prices


Mr Hollywood jaja you're a sweet ;)etc...

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britabroad says on Apr 1, 2008, 12:05:

Kat,
Firstly, forget about what you saw on the film "Notting Hill".
Imagine 4 streets of large, Georgian, millionares houses, a huge open park, lots of trendy shops and restaurants, and loads of big 4x4's driving around. That area is around Notting Hill Gate.
Most of Notting Hill comprises of several council estates, one of which is occupied almost totally by Morroccans, the others largely by Afro Carribbeans. All Saints Road used to be known as the "Front Line" and was largely a no go area, unless you wanted to buy drugs or stolen goods. The "Mangrove" restaurant was a West Indian cafe from the outside and a hotbed of criminals on the inside, where a guy called Frank Critchlow had his office. He was the self appointed voice of the local black population, who created the no go area in the first place for his own criminal associations.
The pubs are known drug dens, many of the businesses are fronts. The area around Portobello Road is rife with street crime. This is at the heart of the Carnival each year ... when all law abiding and decent Notting Hillians escape to the country for the weekend for safety reasons.
House prices? Millions around the Gate. Even studio flats in the badder areas are extortionate because of the close proximity to central London and the good underground and road links. Burglaries are very high.
Lots of famous people live around the Gate...Mark Knopfler, Tony Benn, Robbie Williams, John Cleese, Hugh Grant, Liz Hurley, etc etc. Lots of horrible people live in the other areas. The place is a dive, although it's slowly getting better.
Sorry to sound so negative.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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kalder says on Apr 1, 2008, 12:13:

As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see 'the River Tiber foaming with much blood'.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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britabroad says on Apr 1, 2008, 12:44:

Come back Enoch. All is forgiven.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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SiV says on Apr 1, 2008, 13:50:

Or even better, a McVitie's chocolate crunch!

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Juanes says on Apr 1, 2008, 15:30:

or bourbon biscuits which im dunking in my tetley tea righ tnow.

kat u like older men, i like older women = match made in heaven

ealing has more green spaces just down the road from notting hill and has tv people galore and the famous ealing film studios, in fact the newsnight reader lives opposite me and some other muppet from the one show called john sargeant.

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

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usher127 says on Apr 1, 2008, 18:59:

I worked in the games industry for a long time... i gave it up as obvioulsy you cant transfer those skills to Colombia or south america generally. It also made me suspicious why I never saw a designer/programmer over the age of 35.

But, yes, for game design and Film... London is absolutely perfect.

Ealing is a great place to live.

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manINred says on Apr 1, 2008, 21:58:

Hello Robbi, don't mind me last night, I was a bit of a grumpy git.

"I seem to prefer Santa Marta at this time."
To be honest, there are scarce few places I do prefer than Santa Marta at the moment. I miss it tons.

"No pun intended, UK is a great nation and English are great people. Would be stupid to say the contrary."
That's what I like to hear :) it has certainly been my experience!

"But there is only one reason for a Colombian to move there (or the States or everywhere else in Europe): money."
And culture... London remains one of the most intriguing cities on the planet, and England has a rich and wonderful history, and of course, lots of opportunity. I know many Colombians who dream of visiting England or moving there. I also know many latinos living in Toronto/Montreal whose ultimate destination is the UK. That being said..... in a perfect world I'd split my time between places like Colombia, England, etc... it's all about taking the best of all the worlds one can.
"
Now, let me concentrate on Roma - Manchester, hoping that we do not get 7..."
Oh boy oh boy... I have to say, that match made my day. Roma are in a bit of a pickle at the moment. And I'm as happy as a clam, so my thin skin has been shed, people can insult England all they want ;)

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manINred says on Apr 1, 2008, 22:11:

haha, same Rubito... going with the Canadian dollar... harsh barely describes it :(

I guess it's not as bad now as going with U$ currency though.


And Lauthra, there is something I must point out, and this is in no way meant to be a slight on Colombia, but I have spoken in depth with several people about this buty am hesitant post it on this site for fear of being lambasted as a Colombia-hater which I am not....

The majority (actually all) of Colombians I know who made the move to Canada, the UK or Australia consider it the best move of their lives. A turning point, if you will. You never know, the same could happen to you. Plus, you can always head back to Colombia if England isn't your cup of tea, so to speak :)

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2008, 22:16:

Winchester Cathedral
Abbey Road.
Penny Lane.
Big Ben.
London Bridge.
So, what?

Calle 134 was fine for me.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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manINred says on Apr 1, 2008, 22:23:

haha. great album, and nice road mind you.

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2008, 22:54:

so,... where did they want to go? usa?
I know... 'BACK TO COLOMBIA'..
I would also be about fished out, after two years in ... 'OH! CANADAAAAAA'.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 1, 2008, 22:58:

Rubito, you would HATE London for the prices. I literally spend 15 pounds in London for a cab drive that would be 2,500 pesos in Bogota. And restaurants and everything else are just ridiculously expensive.

Great city to visit, though.

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2008, 23:09:

You soundin like my (rabid!) ex;
wtf does it matter whose dime it is?
as long as it is... .a dime. lol

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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goin_south says on Apr 1, 2008, 23:25:

THINK .... ABUNDANCE... rubito.

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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robi666 says on Apr 2, 2008, 07:26:

MiR wrote
"Now, let me concentrate on Roma - Manchester, hoping that we do not get 7..."
Oh boy oh boy... I have to say, that match made my day. Roma are in a bit of a pickle at the moment. And I'm as happy as a clam, so my thin skin has been shed, people can insult England all they want ;)"

MOOODS, this has nothing to do with Colombia, please delete his comment, better, delete this thread.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Lauthra says on Apr 2, 2008, 08:31:

Ealing. Must look that up.

Rubito, if you do find a way to 'visit those kinda insanely expensive places on someone else's dime', do tell :P

Nato (='.'=)

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britabroad says on Apr 2, 2008, 09:08:

Ealing is in West London, has great transport links and a big shopping centre.
Expensive though. And part of it is called Hanwell, which isn't a good place to live.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!