Proponen reconocimiento político a las Farc

billyb says on Jul 21, 2008, 14:11:

I have no problem doing that as long as they have to lay down their arms at that time, otherwise you are opening a pandora's box that would allow for foreign govs unfriendly to colombia, like nicaragua, ecuador and venezuela to use that as a wedge with which they can begin to give the FARC poltical and eventual military legitemacy without requiring them (the FARC) to negotiate in good faith (and we know all about theur good faith) and you know that door can't be closed again if it doesn't work out.

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lfsr1544 says on Jul 21, 2008, 14:20:

When the FAR had some type of 'leadership', they were unable to come to a peace agreement, when given pretty much all the elements existed to reach such accord(pre-Uribe). Instead, they took advantage of the govt and people of Colombia and came very close to truly bringing Colombia to it's darkest hour.

Now, without any true leadership and with FAR in a situation of instability within the organization, I can't see FAR agreeing to anything that would be deemed a fair proposal by this Colombian gov't....and the next, and the next and the next. Why would any of the FAR leaders give up their money and power to just be a Colombian civilian? I'm just tired of FAR/ELN setting up all the rules. It's always their way or the highway. And even then, they change up the rules of the game. They have no compassion for anyone but themselves. They benefit from prolonging this situation. They want a post-Uribe Colombia so that they can return to the good 'ole days. It's getting close to that hour, so they may just get what they want...again.

If tomorrow, they released all the hostages in their captivity I can see how their political designation would gain some inroads. Unfortunately, I don't see that coming very soon :(

"Solo se que nada se"

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billyb says on Jul 21, 2008, 15:44:

"Farc advierten que no dejarán las armas y que prefieren una muerte en combate
Así lo afirmaron en una declaración de respuesta al llamado que les hicieron los presidentes de Venezuela, Hugo Chávez, y de Ecuador, Rafael Correa, para ponerle fin al conflicto interno colombiano. ......"

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/politica/2008-07-21/farc-advierten-qu...


Then again CK, is this is who we are supposed to be dealing with?

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ColombianoGringo says on Jul 21, 2008, 15:55:

Anyone that knows the history of the Union Patriotica should know that the farc will likely never accept this. Honestly, they would be stupid to do so.

In any case, Cano and the rest of them belong at the end of a rope, not in the congress. There are enough criminals there already.

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 21, 2008, 15:58:

Billyb, you need to keep in mind that what we know today as the FARC is only the vestige of what once was an army of highly trained combatants. Who, I ask, prefers a death in combat? Alfonso Cano? Mauricio Jaramillo? the underaged kids on the frontline? The women who are being constantly passed on like objects and forced to have unsanitary abortions?
It is clear that the Cupula and the rest have a bad communication breakdown, mandos medios are not passing information, not getting supplies. The very foundations of the FARC have been shaken and most would agree the damage caused by the deaths of reyes, marulanda and rios has left an irreparable crack on the organization. Would the FARC surrender like that humiliated and reduced to nothing? of course not, if they have a minimum of self respect -and I am sure the people in the cupula are just a bunch of self agrandized bastards- they won't surrender....but you see people in the middle and lower levels desserting, they're hungry, sick...that isn't why they joined FARC for... I do believe the end of FARC is coming (not the end of violence though). So these public decarations are to be taken with a grain of salt...this is the same secretariado that swore up and down that they had Emmanuel and did not execute the diputados...why give them credibility on this one?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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billyb says on Jul 21, 2008, 16:04:

I think the end of the FARC will come soon, and not through any negotiations or through some epic last battle, but from the desentigration and atomization of its fronts into numerous criminal gangs, that although capable of wreacking havoc, will not be considered a threat to the state.

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juancegomez says on Jul 21, 2008, 20:10:

Unlikely but it could actually be used as a way to test if FARC really wants to talk or not.

ColombianoGringo: "Anyone that knows the history of the Union Patriotica should know that the farc will likely never accept this. Honestly, they would be stupid to do so. "

Reading the article, this isn't exactly the same thing per se.

I'm hardly an expert, but I have a fairly reasonable amount of knowledge about that tragic history and (more importantly, I would say) its context.

I think that they were already "stupid" during the UP days, among other things, precisely because they did not demobilize and tried to take advantage of the situation, for various reasons.

A political party could not have survived in the kind of climate that, in no small part, FARC's own actions, the other guerrillas and their enemies (narcos, the military, etc.) were helping to create despite the naive but well-intentioned efforts of Betancur.

The UP massacre cannot be morally justified, but it can be explained, and I think FARC completely lacks sincerity and self-criticism about their own actions and intentions during that era. It's not just a tale of the murderers and their direct victims, as tragic as that was.

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billyb says on Jul 22, 2008, 06:30:

But CK, as you yourself state above, "why give them credibility now?", That is precisely the problem, how can you negotiate in good faith with an entity that has none? They have no credibilty and have shown nointention to deal in good faith when given the opportunity to do so. Whithout a disarmament by them to show seriousness and good faith, the next president that makes consessions to them to get them to the negotiating table will look a bigger fool than even Pastrana, as the state has the upper hand and doesn't need to make desperate consessions now.

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