proper spanish

Miguel says on Aug 28, 2004, 05:47:

My experience... "Por favor" and "quisiera pedir" work best

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2004, 06:08:

how does it sound in English? "I want a cup of tea". Slightly rude, right? "Una taza de té, por favor" is ok in a restaurant or café. If you're asked "Café o té?", you can answer simply, "té, por favor".
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Gator says on Aug 28, 2004, 06:15:

Personally, I would use "por favor." "Yo quiero" is a litte bit too much like a command, IMHO. "Una tasa de té, por favor," orr possibly "me gustaría" should handle it.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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bjorn says on Aug 28, 2004, 07:17:

the condicionales form is best Using quisiera or gustaria (which is equivalent to the English " I would like to") is the most polite. Using " me trae una taza de te, por pavor" which means "can you bring me...please" is also perfectly all right as far as I know.

Yo quiero is not good to use. I have also read (in the excellent book "Breaking out of beginners spanish") that always using the pronouns (like yo) is considered a little unappropriate in the spanish speaking world, as it's so called yo-ismo (maybe a native Colombian can comment on this)

Bjorn

Bjorn

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jmickey says on Aug 28, 2004, 09:15:

Proper gifts to bring friends when visiting Colombia When traveling to visit friends from the US to Bogota, what small gifts would be proper to bring for a male and female. Example, a bottle of California wine, an American pro-football or baseball t-shirt, or other small easily portable gifts?

Thank you for your anticipated feedback,

jmickey

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poulet says on Aug 28, 2004, 11:08:

unless you know by a fact the person likes football or baseball that is not a good gift, (also remember americans are the only ones to call american football, football, in the rest of the world football is soccer) nevertheless a football(soccer) t-shirt wouldn't be a good idea since all american football(soccer) teams suck. A bottle of California wine sounds just about right, maybe for a guy a cd/dvd.

And about the topic I always use "me regala un ... porfavor"

about what bjorn says, it's not unpolite, it just sounds weird, spanish isn't like french when you have to always use the subject (je, tu il, vous, nous, ils) in spanish you dont have to say "Yo quiero" it's enough to say "quiero", saying "Yo quiero" is just unnecessary and therefore just sounds weird, i'm colombian, btw. Anyways, saying quiero is the equivalent in english to "I want" so if you go to a restaurant and say "I want the steak" it sounds like you're demanding a stake rather than asking for it, so it is unpolite.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 28, 2004, 11:32:

For a person who is accustomed to using pronouns as in the languages that I spoke previously, French and English, it is difficult to stop using them. Just as it is a little difficult to discern when to use ser and when to use estar or all those damm reflexive verbs! French and Spanish may both be Latin languages but I find far more similarities between French and English in structure and syntax than I do between French and Spanish. My wife can generally understand both Italian and Portugese but is totally lost in French.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 28, 2004, 12:42:

Quiero One thing I find interesting is that I hear well-educated, polite Colombians using "Quiero un plato de ... " all the time. I, too was taught that it wasn't polite but here, apparently, it's totally fine. The most common form you'll hear in Colombia, however, is "regalame (o, me regalas) un vaso de agua."

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juanalejo says on Aug 28, 2004, 12:43:

Quiero or not quiero It does not sound rude to me at all, you may be asked in restaurants " ¿que quiere comer? ", to which you may respond " yo quiero ... " also used in more formal places is " que gustarian los señores " or " que desean los señores " to what we normally answer " yo quisiera " the " me regala una taza de té " as Paulet suggests is commonly used in Colombia, but no where else and we Colombians are given wierd looks in other spanish speaking countries as it implies we will not be paying for it.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2004, 15:46:

me regala is very informal, best used in a family-type situation. It's considered vernacular, a modismo.
"me regala una taza de té/café" works fine at a family gathering, a social visit to people you know well, at somebody's home.
At a restaurant, I would say: "una taza de café/té, por favor"
I've never been asked "que quiere comer /tomar" at a restaurant. It's always been " que desea Ud/ que le puedo ofrecer?"
Don't complicate it with "desearía/gustaría" even if you think it sounds better. It's overdoing it.

About the personal pronouns: they are unnecessary and redundant in normal conversation. They are used mainly to give emphasis to the fact that it's I/you/she/he/we/ they who want /do something. To use them is not not wrong, however, only if you use them too often or too much it would sound weird or drawing uncalled attention to your own person.

French and Spanish share a whole lot grammar and syntax. The problem is mostly with the vocabulary, pronunciation and intonation.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Gator says on Aug 28, 2004, 17:05:

Desi, You Nailed it. ¡Muy bien! Tu lo has dicho. Esa es la manera correcta. Desde ahora quedas nombrada como profesora de español de todos los forums.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 28, 2004, 17:15:

:) Thanx, gator. I've never been a Spanish teacher before in my life. I've taught English to Colombians with modest success, English to Swedes, Finnish to Swedes, but never before, Spanish to anybody.
cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Gator says on Aug 28, 2004, 17:19:

Maybe so-but you nailed that answer. nt

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 28, 2004, 20:13:

Just to give a couple of examples. The French use only one form of the verb "to be", they use pronouns even though they are not really necessary because the verbs have different conjugations, the structure of questions in French is similar to that of English, they blend words together to form contractions just as they do in English. I found my French to be of almost no use to me in learning Spanish other than knowing more than one language makes it easier to acquire another. Overall I found French much easier to learn than Spanish but then again, I grew up in Montreal.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 29, 2004, 04:03:

utopia, I'm sure you're right about French. I don't speak French, even though I studied it both in high school and college, but have never lived in a French-speaking country or carried a conversation in that language. I have always been under the impression that the similarities were just in the grammar and syntax, in the deeper "layer" that would be the result of its roots in Latin, and up to a certain extent, also in the vocabulary. Keep in mind the double vocabulary in English with the latin-derived word usúally loaned from French, and as such, not usable when finding similarities between English and French.
Another grammatical feature is the use of an auxiliary verb when forming questions in English. Is that similar in French? Sorry...I have forgotten even the little French I could speak before...
have a nice day,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 29, 2004, 04:45:

French and Spanish The thing I notice about French is that I can read it and get a good sense of what's going on but listening to it I get almost nothing (This is from a person who has never studied French but speaks,reads and writes Spanish quite well). So I think the latin roots shine through on paper but the verbal patterns are so different between the two that it's almost useless there. Other Romance languages such as Italian and Portuguese are much easier for me.

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poulet says on Aug 29, 2004, 08:55:

I think it's just because the french speak so damn fast that some words get mingled up, for example when they say "je ne sais pas" it sounds like "chez pas" so you really have to make the words make sense in the context of conversations.

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ted bosch says on Aug 29, 2004, 09:07:

thank you I would like to thank everyone for the info about proper spanish.
It will be very helpful.
Sorry for using caps
Ted

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Wingman says on Aug 29, 2004, 10:37:

Pan-pan & Vino-vino How interesting-! In the Colombian language, seldom anyone asks for “Tea”. They’d ask for an “aromatica” instead. Likewise, they usually do not ask for “coffee” or “café”. They’d ask for is a “tinto” (which in Castilian Spanish) = stands for a glass of Red Wine. Whilst the Colombian language (IS) a “beautiful linguistic melody”, should any particular individual possess full command of the Castilian Language, then it should be easy to interpret the Colombian language to be somewhat different from Castilian. In fact, when asking for either “aromatica” or “tinto” (or whatever), Colombians tipically say; “Me regalas…… whatever it is they ask for???” – “Regala” (from regalar) is something you give or obtain for FREE/Gratis. And, while they will tend to the Colombian idiomatic of “me regalas” – it seldom is for free. YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT……

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elmodefoque says on Aug 29, 2004, 11:43:

i don't know which part of colombia you guys are learing your spanish from, but when my family moved from la guajira to la chinita in barranquilla i always heard that the proper way to ask for a cup of coffee is, "mira marica, dame un cafe ahora mismo hijueputa" after we moved to a nicer neighborhood people were more polite and would ask for coffe like this "mira malpario, un cafe porfavor"

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Gator says on Aug 29, 2004, 12:17:

Guess That Explaines the Missing Teeth. nt

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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poulet says on Aug 29, 2004, 12:56:

elmodefoque I don't know your story but I can see you're a fucking idiot.

Wingman, that's not true, aromatica is different, if you ask for a tea you'll get a tea, regular fruit tea, an aromatica as the name says it is an infusion of haromatic herbs. If you ask for a tea, chances are, you'll get a Lipton.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 30, 2004, 04:55:

Hey Poulet, you’re not a nice person!!!! Thank god I’m a nice guy or else I’ll be calling you “marica (hope you're a guy) mama verga, hijo de diez leche, me cago en tu maldita madre que te pario malpario,”

I'll get there, when I get there!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 30, 2004, 08:33:

No, Desi, they do not use the verb "to do" as an auxillary as in English. However I have been thinking about the three languages and there are many odd things about them. The French do have two forms of the verb "to know" as in Spanish, "savior" and "connaitre". They also have a verb "tenir" meaning "to hold" which is similar to the Spanish verb "tener". However normally they use "avoir" for "to have" as we do in English both as an auxillary and to signify possession.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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poulet says on Aug 30, 2004, 13:37:

if you're not here to help th elmodefoque, if you're not here to help then dont say anything you ass, no one finds you funny so just stfu

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 30, 2004, 14:17:

When you said "you ass" were you talking about Elmo or his donkey?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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heat says on Aug 30, 2004, 14:42:

Elmo is certainly an interesting character. And always comes up with the whackiest things to say. He's amusing and incredibly crude and obnoxious at the same time.

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mzzmerized says on Aug 30, 2004, 19:27:

El-Mo Poulet...I find El-Mo extremely funny...what a break from some pretentious, but ever so earnest posters...

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poulet says on Aug 30, 2004, 19:29:

you find this funny: "i always heard that the proper way to ask for a cup of coffee is, "mira marica, dame un cafe ahora mismo hijueputa" (look fag give me a coffee right now son of a bitch)

when someone is asking for help? It's way out of line and totally unnecessary

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 05:54:

"elmodefoque, if you're not here to help then dont say anything you ass"

Hey poulet, you could talk about my mother, my father, my grandparents, my dog my cat my village chief (that sonamanbiche I cant stand) you could even talk about my very own hairy, old, and smelly ass/jopo/butt, but do not talk about my hairy, old, dusty and smelly ass/donkey. I love that thing and I love it because we have so much in common.
As for the word “marica” it is not an offensive word in the neighborhoods that I grew up in Barranquilla and ask any costeño. A very common greeting among friends is “nojoda marica, como carajo estas mi llave? or when you see a friend across the street and shout “ MIRA LOCO, VEN ACA HIJUEPUTA!” is the same as someone saying “my dear friend come here please”, those are friendly terms in my neck of the woods, but in pretentious places as I assume you hang out, it might sound barbaric but let me tell one thing, my friends, though we talk to each other like that , they have stood by me in bad (selling butifarras and cleaning car windows) and now the good (with the few dollars in my pocket, I’m able to treat them to what ever they want). They were also there in extremely dangerous situations, like the time my village chief sent some guys to cut my balls off just because I nailed his daughter a couple days before she was to marry some idiot. I guarantee that your stuffy “educated, sophisticated, and rich friends" will not do that for you.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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ShazCas says on Aug 31, 2004, 09:12:

Marica and huevon Talking about the word marica, it always used to make me laugh when my husband called his friends marica and huevon (asshole/dickhead). I mean, he never calls them anything else, and never by their names, "tons que huevon?" "Quiubo marica!"

I used to tease him by saying, "you don't really like them much, do you?!"

Elmo, "Mi llave" is something I haven't heard in a long time. Do guajiros like you use "Parce" or is that a rolo thing?

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 09:49:

mi "llave" is the ultimate frienship term.
i never heard of the word "parce" until i heard it in a novela.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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poulet says on Aug 31, 2004, 09:57:

It 's a mater of regionalism, It's NOT a mater of regionalism, I'm from bogotá and had the best education money can buy in Colombia, and still I call my friends huevon. I also call them parcero, never llave, that is very costeño. It's funny, when I was in Chile, people knew I was colombian casuse I called my friends guevon.

the point of what I was saying is why would you say that(mira marica, dame un cafe ahora mismo hijueputa") to someone that is asking a genuine question? what if the guy takes your word for it and goes to a restaurant and says that? they'll beat the crap outta him. All colombians in thie forum are here to help others, you don't have to fill your emotional voids by trying to be funny here.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 10:25:

In some places in Barranquilla (strato -5 neighborhoods where I grew up) you actually talk like that and no one will raise a brow. It might not be proper Spanish in Bogotá but for us it is and will be the only way to get service. Don’t go over there saying “disculpe señor, me pude preparar un cafesito con pansito y huevito” they’ll kick you outta the store.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 10:48:

What the hell are you talking Poulet,
What the hell are you talking about "here to fill an emotional void" the only void I’m filling is the time available I have at work. I have a good time arguing with mojones (cachacos) como tu, the same ones we talked about in “Colombian social class” elitist, midget F—k.
Who the f—k cares if you went to the best school in Colombia, do you want us to know that you’re from a “rich” (Colombian standard) family?
I spent my young life selling butifarras, so what! those that make me more of a man because I took care of myself, my 9 brothers and my mom, at age 5. maybe

I'll get there, when I get there!

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poulet says on Aug 31, 2004, 11:59:

you're a fucking idiot, I was just proving a point saying that that language is acceptable in regular life with ppl you know and it's used in all social clases, (it's not my fault you're a resentful mofo towards other social clasees), but not if you just met someone.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 12:22:

Mira, you little prick, midget cachaco, you don’t have to know someone in la Costa to call that person a “marica” is like you cachacos calling someone “hey parce”
I’m resentful of your “rich” family Colombian PESOS jajajaaj. I wipe my hairy old butt with those pesos.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 31, 2004, 12:25:

Match made in heaven You two make a really cute pair.

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elmodefoque says on Aug 31, 2004, 12:35:

is 3:30 pm and is time to go home for me. I will continue this tomorrow. 8 am sharp. later

I'll get there, when I get there!

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kamilo says on Aug 31, 2004, 15:34:

the ones who say parce are PAISAS, the ones who say marica meaning friend we rolos were first in using it with this kind of meaning.

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kamilo says on Aug 31, 2004, 15:35:

anyways the best spanish is spoke in bogota.

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poulet says on Aug 31, 2004, 17:37:

kamilo, you may have just unleashed the wrath of elmodefoque by saying that, he's very regionalistic.
although I agree with you 100%

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litost says on Aug 31, 2004, 19:15:

I am not from Bogota but agree that the spanish spoken there is the best, at least from a proper and correct point of view.

However, I am also regionalistic and think the paisas speak the nicest spanish in Colombia, very clear and correct but at the same time it has a distinct ring to it that makes it very charming. Bogota's spanish can be a little boring and flavorless, plus the accent can be downright annoying how there's almost always a screeching accent at the end of sentences.

As for costenos, they can boast the most colorful and wild variant of Spanish in the country, something I don't think elmo will disagree with.

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