Presidential candidates view on Marijuana. Who do you support? Drug policies in Colombia?

Simon says on Jun 10, 2008, 21:14:

Just say no to drugs! That's my policy!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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miamimike says on Jun 10, 2008, 22:18:

Decriminalize Marijuana in small quantities, put our scarce resources towards more important issues; legalize it and collect taxes. Its a Battle we are never going to win. I'm for the Candidate that offers a Clearcut change from the Tired Failed Policies of the past 7 years. If that Candidate be Alfred E. Newman of Mad Mag Fame, that will be my Man!

Simon, just say No to drugs? Does that mean saying no to ETOH? Alochol(etoh) is a known popular drug,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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miamimike says on Jun 11, 2008, 00:21:

Another reason it should be decriminalized, IMO, at the very least for Medicinal Purposes is for pain relief of patients with Terminal illnesses such as late stage cancer. Incredibly, Morphine, a much more potent drug with some pretty potent side effects is legal here in this country while Marijuana with hardly a untoward side effect, is illegal medicinally in many states. Hard to belive we are even talking about this being a legal issue in 2008!

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 11, 2008, 01:02:

I support Obama's view. I am not a pothead but I have nothing against pot users, I would not brand them as drug addicts, people on pot are completely functional, it has been know to have medicinal properties... less addictive and harmful than tobacco. I honestly don't see what's the big fuss...That said, it stinks like feet and just because of that I wouldn't wanna try it.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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dwmte7 says on Jun 11, 2008, 06:04:

i think we should use it but not inhale.....bill clinton

dwmte

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Lowell says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:03:

Don't see weed a s a big problem here in Colombia and for possession of less than an ounce it's legal. My shoulders are damaged and sleeping for more than one hour is nearly impossible without help. My choices = pills with a redidue effect the next day, a few tokes and no problems the next day or booze. Know pople who have used pot for over 30 years and never went on to other drugs.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Monpirri says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:05:

Did you know that in some states in the US marijuana is legal for medical purposes.
I believe in Arizona it's legal to use Marijuana for medical reasons.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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miamimike says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:08:

"illegal medicinally in many states."
============================================================

yes, I am aware its legal(for medicanal purposes) in some states but not all(from preceeding posts)

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Monpirri says on Jun 11, 2008, 07:19:

Montel Williams joins push for NJ medical marijuana law
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-06-06-williams-marijuana_x.ht...

"In the USA, California and Arizona state ballots have approved legalizing medical use of marijuana and thousands of patients are obtaining some relief from some very severe symptoms."

http://www.taima.org/en/jamm.htm

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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miamimike says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:23:

Marijuana should be legalized and taxed in all states as beer, wine whiskey is-lots of Tax revenue.Lots of very effective relief for terminally ill cancer patients,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Monpirri says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:41:

Summary of State Medical Marijuana Laws
http://www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/StatePrograms.htm
It looks like MaryandJuana "are" legal in 12 states.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Simon says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:49:

"Simon, just say No to drugs? Does that mean saying no to ETOH? Alochol(etoh) is a known popular drug,,,"

I meant illegal drugs, of course.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Monpirri says on Jun 11, 2008, 08:54:

I dunno but I am going to vote for Presidential candidate Barack Obama because he looks like he is better informed about US laws.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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oldbongo says on Jun 11, 2008, 10:56:

hohohohoohohoho

some of us have been harshly tokin' alot longer than 40 anos and have heard it all before.
as for change....don't bet on it.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 11, 2008, 11:11:

Rubito says on Jun 11, 2008, 10:20: flag

"Most of the LEGAL shit doctors can hook you on is worse than ANYTHING they've banned"

Like Oxycodone/Oxycontin, just ask Rush Limbaugh (but don't know if that's what he used).

But there was so much Oxy abuse which created such tight control that it was sometimes difficult for suffering patients to get it prescribed, in 2000-01.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 11, 2008, 12:07:

brother simon....somehow you've forgot that possession of personal 'stash' of pot, coke and other drugs in colombia is LEGAL. thank you, president caesar gaviria. who noted many years ago that colombia didn't have a drug problem, it had a drug dealer problem. too, that the many substances mentioned above have been employed by the indigenous colombians since 10,000 years before the round eyes arrived. just FYI.

dwmte

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Simon says on Jun 11, 2008, 13:46:

Dwmte,

So what? I still disagree with that stupid, immoral law in Colombia!

Say no to illegal drugs!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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Sam Salmon says on Jun 11, 2008, 15:31:

Colombian Marijuana is crap.

' a la orden!'

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dwmte7 says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:07:

sam, you couldn't be more right about that....but try to get them to believe it. they talk about their 'punto rojo' like they were talking about GOD's private stash. they just can't get it through their heads that compared to 'humbolt' or hawaiiank, it's akin to mexican regular...at best.

dwmte

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dwmte7 says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:07:

simon...stupid? immoral? hmmmm explain please.

dwmte

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Lcacique says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:11:

Simon, so if they are made legal all of the sudden you'll accept them?

Prohibition creates more harm than it prevents...that is a fact. Our counternarcotics policy, focusing on the demand side of the problem, is fundamentally flawed. Blow up Colombia, sink it to the bottom of the sea, and the loss of coca cultivation there will be offset by gains in other countries to meet our need for narcotics. Unleash a fungus to destroy coca everywhere on earth and people will turn to other substances. Make it next to impossible to score pharmaceuticals and people will get off on household cleaners. Outlaw household cleaners and kids will choke themselves to pass out (a much more natural buzz, jajaja). It is mind numbing that people think that you can take care of this issue by prohibiting the use of narcotics. Likewise, it is naive to believe that everyone will turn into heroin addicts if narcotics are legal. How can some people believe that it is a CRIME to ingest a substance? It may be a shame, but a crime? People may commit crimes under the influence...so what?!!? Convict them of the crime that they commit. People commit crimes sober all of the time, yet there is nobody running around saying we should outlaw sobriety.

Colombia has suffered immensely from our drug war tactics...We supported eradication efforts in Peru and Bolivia. In Bolivia, Plan Dignidad (love the name) resulted in a sharp increase in violence perpetrated by the armed forces against the campesino population. Fujimori, in Peru, started shooting down planes on their way to Colombia. Reductions in these two producing countries caused a spike in coca cultivation in Colombia. Production at home led to increased gains for cartels in Colombia. Great job USA!!! The cartels became such a huge problem that the USA decided to go after them...With their downfall, the unitended but OBVIOUS/PREDICTABLE consequence is increased opportunities for the guerrillas (and the paramilitary) to profit from the illegal industry. And wow, the FARC and the PARAS became a lot more powerful during this era of Colombian history. Yep, our policies have done wonderful things for Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru...And what is the story on the streets of the USA...well, it is just as easy to get Coke as ever...the price and quality has fluctuated from time to time, but not significantly. And it is easily available. Tough talk, NO RESULTS...and an immense waste of our money.

In addition, supporters of fumigation are right to point out that coca cultivation is extremely damaging to the environment because of the chemicals used and the deforestation that takes place to plant crops. However, they are moronic to claim that fumigation is a means to combat this destruction of the environment. Lets ignore the controversy surrounding the chemicals used during fumigations and assume that they are totally harmless to humans and the environment. Fumigations do not result in an end to cultivation. The destruction of their principle cash crop, means that the campesino will simply move deeper into remote/prisitine areas in order to plant more coca. And we see this all over Colombia. It is now grown in a majority of the departments. Therefore, fumigation leads to increased dispersal of toxic chemicals and deforestation.

And simon, if you want to talk about immorality...I think it is immoral to fly over these crops spraying chemicals that destroy illicit crops (principle source of income) as well as licit crops (principle source of food) knowing with absolute certainty that we are placing the lives of these families in extreme jeopardy for little to no reason. In other words, there is no pay off for us...cocaine is very available all over the place; however, there are very real consequences for these people who already live in abject poverty. We are not talking about evil drug dealers, we are talking about unfortunate men, women and children. In my eyes, our crime is MUCH greater on all levels. But nobody really talks about the countless victims of our policies...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Jun 11, 2008, 17:24:

OxyContin is easily obtainable and in LARGE quantities. I know many people who have access to these pills despite the fact that they do not need them.

Ironically, the VA is a great source of "legal drugs."

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Simon says on Jun 11, 2008, 18:53:

"Simon, so if they are made legal all of the sudden you'll accept them?"

Absolutley not!

I also don't accept smoking even though it's perfectly legal, but I understand there's a big difference in how smoking affects human behavior as opposed to cocaine or heroin. You sound as if people have a primordial need to get high and I vehemently disagree with this. I think these people who feel they 'need' to shove venemous powder up their noses to escape reality just lack the ethical and/or moral backbone to stay away from these destructive substances. I wish people would stop making excuses for these degenerates in order to appease their despicable vices. If we raise our children correctly, then they will not even consider geting 'high' to fit in with their friends because they'll know that such friends are not worth having. Decent people don't do drugs.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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papiChulo says on Jun 11, 2008, 19:40:

here's something to check out if anybody thinks pot will ever be legal... http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/5087.html

the hardest part of life is to live while you're still alive.

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Lcacique says on Jun 11, 2008, 20:59:

Simon, I appreciate that you dislike these substances but have to disagree with your perspective on the issue.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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papiChulo says on Jun 11, 2008, 22:04:

Rubito... soon I can do the same for him in medellin... ;)

the hardest part of life is to live while you're still alive.

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rocinante says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:31:

I got the best hydro connection in Medellin. Too bad I don't/can't smoke. Otherwise the pot here is not worth the paper it's rolled in.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:36:

In support of Simon, drugs in Colombia carry a VERY negative stagmatism. The percentage of users is extremely LOW compared to the US or Europe where smoking pot is considered a social thing. People are caught smoking or dealing pot in some barrios and are forcibly and permanently evicted. This is not a joke. There is a very religious and conservative outlook on using drugs in this country and you will be labeled "Satanico" for wearing an Iron Maiden T-Shirt.

This is a prime post for some yaho to say "My neighbor smokes pot here in Medellin all the time!" and "I saw a nun with a Judas Priest t-Shirt"

I'm telling you like it is. please trust me.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 12, 2008, 06:53:

Roci i think the picture isn't that black or white. It obviously depends on location, and socio-cultural and economic background. Teenagers in private high schools and university students smoke pot regularly (I know this because in my little brother's school smoking pot is not a big deal, they do it in house parties, cars, after school, while waiting for the school bus etc). Hell, there is a place within a very high profile uni in Bogota where you can buy and smoke pot and nobody bats an eyelid. The policy seems to be 'if you don't smoke pot or wanna see anyone smoking pot then don't bother walking around that area'.
Pot is perfectly acceptable in many circles in Colombia, you don't have to be a headbanger, a punk or a satan lover, just a regular person...
That said the picture you painted is also easy to find. In small towns even painting your nails in dark colours is considered satanic...but I don't think that attitude is mainstream.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Monpirri says on Jun 12, 2008, 07:53:

Don’t do Drugs!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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seabass says on Jun 12, 2008, 08:44:

It's not necessary to smoke cannabis. There are some wonderful cannabis recipes that can be found on the internet.

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tigredelnorte2 says on Jun 12, 2008, 08:57:

The only reason that marajuana is not leagal is that the gov´t and the pharmacutical companies couldn´t make any money off is, and peeps would grow their own.

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rocinante says on Jun 12, 2008, 12:01:

CK I was comparing the general old USA and Europe with general Colombia. Of course there are pockets and circles (especially among ther rich) that are not a problem in Colombia.

Generally there is a marginal difference between the acceptence of pot smoking between Colombia and US/Europe. No one will ever be killed for smoking pot in the US or Europe. The same can't be said for Colombia

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Jun 12, 2008, 12:02:

"The only reason that marajuana is not leagal is that the gov´t and the pharmacutical companies couldn´t make any money off is, and peeps would grow their own." Tiger

BS - Why not distill your own booze and grow your own tobacco? The market for buying a pack of joints in a US deli is huge - unless you live in Humboldt county or Hawaii.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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dwmte7 says on Jun 12, 2008, 19:39:

on the note above about drug use in colombia and getting kicked out of the barrio....... you gotta be kidding. drug use is from the white house to casa narino. from the gutter to el poblado. from rich to poor from old to young. and after 19 years of living there, beginning with being a guest at the 1989 enauguration of caesar gaviria in bogota, i know what i'm talking about.

simon...kennedy was using coke in the white house. and he wasn't the first nor the last high profile person to use his private time for his private affairs. i don't think your almost violent opinions mean a damn thing to these people.

dwmte

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rocinante says on Jun 13, 2008, 07:08:

Rubi I'd quote your entire post because I agree with every word - but I'm posting right after it so.... not necessary. So I'll quote myself:

"Generally there is a marginal difference between the acceptence of pot smoking between Colombia and US/Europe."

When I mention "permanently evicted" I don't really mean "kicked out of the barrio". Also I am not talking about Poblado, Laureles, Las Palmas or Conquistadores.

Try walking the streets anywhere in Manrique or Diamante tonight after 11PM with a puro in your pocket. You will be stopped by an armed amigo before you can even light it up, just for walking down the street. Then light it up. You might not be back.

Compared to the US and Europe, percentage wise, Colombia is just not on the same level of social drugging it up. That's all I'm saying.

I guess I speak of this frequenty because....

Colombia has another lesser known stigma - every Colombian is not only a murdering druglord but also every Colombian is a drug addict, snorting coke before topping their enchiladas with ranchero sauce.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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dwmte7 says on Jun 13, 2008, 15:32:

roci...i know you don't believe it, so i won't either. my experience in colombia--19 yrs--is one that most do/or did and when families get together, and the young bucks toot. the old timers will, as often as not, have one 'for old times sake'. my suegro, a VERY middle class gentleman, would in the past, get high with me simply because i offered. to me, it made no difference, i wasn't trying to appease anyone. if you do/did, fine. if not, that's fine too. my dad never did, but that certainly never changed my attitude towards him. he never took lsd, and he wouldn't have a clue what itwas like to take it 300 times. what can i say...we grew up in different universes (so to speak) i went to berkeley and was a research fellow at ucla. he was a sod buster out of western oklahoma and i don'[t know how much schooling he had. it's all relative. we--many of us--grew up in unique circumstances that were alien to the experiences of our parents. it's just the roll of the dice.

in the early 60's while fulfilling my military obligations, i went to okinawa and was a police investigator. my school mates and buddies went to the killing fields and came home changed men...why? i have no idea. it's just how the ball bounced.

i was about 22-23 when i heard about pot. i grew up in an agricultural backwater and so until i left home permanently, i never heard of any of this. yet, my kids were hit with a drug culture from the time they were 10-11. the world, life experience changes for all of us. now, it's such a violent indeterminate world out there, i can't even imagine what's comin around the next curve.

dwmte

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rocinante says on Jun 13, 2008, 15:43:

I don't want to see what's coming around the next curve either. Yeah Douglas we all have our experiences. Speaking of dads and tomorrow's their day - my step dad never had a drink in his life. Obviously we were not related. I should have seen the writing on the wall years earlier although I didn't find out until years later.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 13, 2008, 16:17:

Roci, getting killed or assaulted for smoking a joint isn't common in Colombia either. If anything, you might get stares and mothers will give their children hell for hanging out with pot heads but I have never in my life heard of violence towards a pot smoker. I am not saying it doesn't happen, I believe you but it is far less common that what you make it appear to be.
In regards to the barrios you mention, I have never been there so I cannot give an informed opinion on the issue. But just out of curiosity, are those neighbourhoods known to have some paramilitary/ gang activities?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 14, 2008, 03:43:

Rubi I dont think so, I lived in Medellin for a couple of years and last time I was there was 2 years ago, I went partying, clubbing, meeting people etc and pot was being used openly, and those of us who don't smoke just didn't do it. Granted there were some foreigners, but there were plenty of paisas as well and all was good. I do believe older people tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to pot and by older I mean over 50. That I think is a difficult one to argue against, the only older people who are okay with pot are those who were in touch with european and american trends...which is not a significant portion of the population.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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dwmte7 says on Jun 14, 2008, 08:13:

CK when we'ld party in the fincas, the old timers would do all the party favors the young bucks did. parties tend after a while to separate themselves into mens and womens group and the old guys were just as gregarious as the young. maybe it brought back fond memories. we'ld all be sitting around a fire, drinkin guaro, eating, singing and on occassion, tooting. actually, in my experience, in some circles, toot was more common than smoke... and in other's just the reverse. and in yet others, kinda equal.

after about a gallon of guaro, middle of the night, the kids have died down, bellys are full and everythings cool, just about anything goes. there's peace on earth and just about whatever, is fine.

i stopped partying in poblado and envigado, a number of years ago. almost all my get togethers now are up in the finca (llano grande) or hanging out at gualanday. sitting at the pizza parlor til it closes on weekends at 2 am and then walking around the building and just hanging out with family and friends. gualanday is the best meeting place. too, san antonio is really loose...anything goes. the party'[s in the street and everywhere, in and out of houses and whatever seems to be the rule.

dwmte

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rocinante says on Jun 14, 2008, 08:27:

I can post 'till I'm blue in the face and still I will be greeted with the minority exception. I keep forgetting this board is ex and current estrato 6. I didn't mean to imply that if you are out at a club in Poblado smoking a joint that someone was going to gun you down.

Again: "Generally there is a marginal difference between the acceptence of pot smoking between Colombia and US/Europe."

I feel that my statement is a fact all accross Medellin. Not just the clubs where the rich hang out and not just the street kids toking a joint under the bridge.

"But just out of curiosity, are those neighbourhoods known to have some paramilitary/ gang activities" - CK.

You are kidding me right? "yes" paras and Aguila Negras and cops who are paras by night. I can list 30 other neighborhoods that comprise three quarters of Medellin that fall into the same catregory.

Bottom line is that it's the attitude of the religous conservative non smokers of all ages who look down upon drugs - this attitude is just very different in the US and Europe - that's all I'm saying. This attitude makes up the majority. To draw a parallel - in today's world what percentage of people on the streets see a teenager with a heavy metal t shirt and think "He's a satan worshiper"? That percentage, whatever it is in the US and Europe is exponentially higher in Medellin and most likely all of Colombia.

Douglas speaks of JFK snorting coke in his private time. A lot of US presidents have done drugs. The social acceptance of drug use in the US is markedly different than that in Colombia.

Rubi - You are right, Bogota is much, much more liberal than Medellin

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Jun 14, 2008, 08:29:

Our sources here, myself included, are limited and that is most likely the cause of the differing of opinion.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 14, 2008, 10:44:

"But just out of curiosity, are those neighbourhoods known to have some paramilitary/ gang activities" - CK.

You are kidding me right? "yes" paras and Aguila Negras and cops who are paras by night. I can list 30 other neighborhoods that comprise three quarters of Medellin that fall into the same catregory.

Not kidding Roci. I have never been in those neighbourhoods. Some of us are still very ignorant about the things that happen outside our immediate surroundings. It was an honest question.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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rocinante says on Aug 9, 2008, 05:55:

Sorry CK - Things are different outside of Estrado 5 and 6. I was apartment hunting with an estrato 6 girl who was my "front man". We ended up taking the bus (she had never been on a city bus) going to little places to eat in and around Centro while waiting for real estate agents to meet us and show apartments - this over a two week period. I knew the city much better than her - why? She'd never been out of Poblado. As we drove past certain places she said "Oh I've always heard about this place but never saw it". When all was said and done she thanked ME for showing her places in her own freakin city where she had lived for 25 years. We didn't really go that far off the beaten path.

Here is a post you probably already have seen but I'll post ther link anyway. http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/newborn-baby-dumped-in-trash-dea...

A few people gave me crap in another thread about my posts here concering being "permanently removed" from a neighborhood for dealing pot. In another thread I'm not going to search for some guy was accused by a litle girl - apparently he had touched her or was "hanging around" her a little too much. He was removed by people in the barrio because he was offered a choice - get out or be dead. There was actually a town meeting over how to handle this particular neighbor.

I was looking up this post in order to remind Douglas about drug dealers in the other 75 percent of Medellin.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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gringoloid says on Aug 9, 2008, 07:06:

there is only one source for the statement that JFK used coke in the White House and it's the valet of Frank Sinatra. he also says that JFK used coke at Sinatras Palm Springs home.

nobody would use illegal drugs in the home or in front of Frank Sinatra; .....womanizing and boozing, yes...........drugs, uh-uh. also, what was the valet of Sinatra doing in the White House? i need more sources for me to believe that as this book as lots of undocumented information.

JFK did laps everyday in the white house pool for his back problems............from his everyday activities, he didn't act like someone doing illegal drugs.

he was getting inyections from a central park south 'feel good' doctor, but that was under a doctors care and legal.

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