Presidente Correa: Presidente Uribe mintió a Ecuador

bamacellist says on Mar 2, 2008, 06:58:

Correa's assertion that there are no Farc in Ecuador was a lie, apparently. Of course everyone knew that.

At what point does a country such as Ecuador or Venezuela give up this disengenous claim to sovereign borders when it allows the farc safe haven and ignores the routine violation of its borders by the farc-ep as it carries out attacks on another sovereign nation? You slice the cake too many different ways and it's just purree...

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:01:

El ejercito colombiano ha violado la soberania ecuatoriana, se ha masacrado a un mas de una veintena de colombianos rebeldes en territorio ecuatoriano. Con estas acciones colombia viola innumerables tratados internacionales. La ley colombiana no esta por encima de la ley ecuatoriana.

Una vez mas se demuestra el afan de sangre del gobierno colombiano, ni hablar del mentiroso y cobarde accionar fuerzas militares. Ecuador prueba que mienten descaradamente. Al estado colombiano nadie le cree.

La soberania ecuatoriana esta por encima del conflicto armado colombiano y el pueblo ecuatoriano esta en todo su derecho de defender a muerte su legitima soberania.

Segun las leyes internacionales el asesinato de Raul Reyes por fuera de la ley ecuatoriana es una masacre. Una masacre ocurrida en territorio ecuatoriano esta regida por las leyes ecuatorianas.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:10:

And Ecuador lied to Uribe saying there were not Farc in Ecuador!

engage brain before opening mouth

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:14:

Probably what Hugo told him to say.

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:15:

When and where Kat?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:28:

the previous president Alfredo Palacio....he said " "Ecuador no tiene un milímetro de su territorio ocupado" por los guerrilleros, añadió Palacio en declaraciones a periodistas, en las que aceptó que puedan haber "infiltraciones, como en las grandes naciones". well if one of the main guys was there and with lot's of others maybe in a big "campamento" how come the Ecuatorian army didn't noticed that?

I

engage brain before opening mouth

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:55:

Ok, Kat, that was the past president talking about how it was then.
What about Correa and now?

So, do you really think that those past declarations and an incursion in a foreign country of the Colombian national army will be weight the same in an international court?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 07:57:

yep, because is clear that Ecuador is again harboring terrorist wasn't Simon Trinida captureD in Ecuador too? if Ecuador it's not going to do something about the IC NEED to help Colombia in taking drastic measurement with those countries who are helping the terrorist.

.

engage brain before opening mouth

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:00:

And this can be too a good excuse too, to investigated Venezuela and his clown president...I am sure Marulanda is there having tea with the payaso of Chavez:))

engage brain before opening mouth

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:00:

He was captured in Venezuela, Kat - or maybe I'm thinking of someone else...

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:02:

no Mario i just read he was capture in Ecuador....

engage brain before opening mouth

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:08:

Yeah, I was thinking of Rodrigo Granda.

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:10:

Simon Trinidad was captured in Ecuador in a linked operation between Ecuadorian and Colombian police.
That's enough said about "drastic measurement with those countries who are helping the terrorist", talking about Ecuador.

Granda was kidnapped in Venezuela, Mario, but that's another story.

Kat, it is so difficult to be make the job of Uribe, a great president, nowadays. Whatever he does, it is wrong.
You have to understand that the decision to go for Raul Reyes may have heavy consequences on an international level.

And the timing was just so wrong, after the liberation of hostages.
But, what he (Uribe) could do? They had a chance to go for him and he took his responsibilities and did it.

The devil is definitely playing with Colombia.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:12:

Right. Clarified above your post.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:30:

uhmm Bush went for Osama to Afghanistan...

engage brain before opening mouth

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:32:

A smokescreen for Iraq.

webmanco says on Mar 2, 2008, 08:43:

Colombia should not follow bad examples.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

tasco66 says on Mar 2, 2008, 09:13:

It’s not good to provide safe heavens for terrorists nowadays, looks like Ecuador just learned that lesson.

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

Ctg Bound says on Mar 2, 2008, 09:42:

robi666, timing was wrong.

DAM the timing you do it when you can, maybe there wouldn't have been another time to do it for months, years, or ever, as to the liberation of hostages it is irrelevent, FARC shouldn't be kidnapping people, end of story.

Only one good thing is to exterminate them, one less scum bag as far as I am concerned.

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 09:54:

" maybe there wouldn't have been another time to do it for months, years, or ever, "

Yes, that's what I also said Ctg_Bound...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Ctg Bound says on Mar 2, 2008, 09:58:

robi666,

OK my error, I read it differantly first time, I had to read it twice, at a quick glance I read it incorrectly.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2008, 10:27:

FROM CARACOL

El gobernador del Putumayo, Felipe Alfonso Guzmán, denunció en Caracol Radio que para nadie es un secreto en su departamento que las Farc habitan en Ecuador y mantienen campamentos permanentes donde incluso, han estado los secuestrados políticos, los tres norteamericanos y los militares.

Aseguró que su afirmación la sustenta en que él estuvo retenido por esa guerrilla en el vecino país, cuando se desempeñó como alcalde del municipio del Valle de Guamuez.

"En Ecuador han tenido a nuestros secuestrados. Muy probablemente durante su cautiverio, la doctora Ingrid Betancour ha estado en Ecuador. Luis Eladio Pérez ha dicho que durmió en campamentos de ese país y es probable que aún haya gente allá", expresó Guzmán.

El mandatario del Putumayo sostiene que no entiende por qué el gobierno de Ecuador niega que las Farc permanecen en su territorio y sostuvo que el mismo Ejército de ese país lo sabe.

"La guerrilla de las Farc tiene sus operaciones en Colombia pero tiene la costumbre desde hace muchos años de pasar la frontera e ir a habitar y estar en sus campamentos en Ecuador. No sé por qué tratan de ocultarlo. Eso se convierte en una bomba de tiempo para la misma sociedad ecuatoriana", agregó.

El departamento del Putumayo tiene dos ríos que separan a Colombia de Ecuador. Uno, es el río San Miguel, ubicado en el municipio del mismo nombre y el segundo, es el río Putumayo que pasa por las poblaciones de Puerto Leguízamo y Puerto Asís.

engage brain before opening mouth

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 11:00:

I would not say that Ecuador is harboring the FARC. For one, what makes you think that they can police the border effectively. Look at the inability of the US to do so. Right or wrong, the Ecuadorian government may not want to waste their military fighting the FARC. This does not mean that they are sympathetic, it may mean that they do not want to destabalize their own country.

As for comparisons with attacking Osama...Can you imagine the Mexican military entering the US to dispose of someone? Anyway, do you really want Uribe to have the same international reputation as Bush? The US can do it because nobody can stop them from doing it (it's bullshit, but unfortunately true). The US also has a reputation for being saintly, fighting for peace and justice. Of course this is bullshit as well. I do not think the Colombian military or government is in the position to follow the lead of the US.

There is already a lot of tension b/w the two countries as a result of all the Colombian refugees that have infiltrated Ecuador to escape violence as well as the complaints about environmental and health concerns stemming from the fumigation of coca near the border. South America is already leaning towards the other pole, events like this could serve to further such progression.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

robi666 says on Mar 2, 2008, 11:08:

So true, Lcacique.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

joanseb says on Mar 2, 2008, 11:08:

yo si sabia que el peon del mico(chavez) no podia ser tan racional como lo aparentaba ayer.

pedro says on Mar 2, 2008, 11:13:

You can't assume that Ecuador knowingly harboured the FARC.

Hell, there was a shooting war at the border with noisy combat aircraft, and Ecuador apparently didn't know about it until they got the phone call.

If they didn't know about that, how would they detect a clandestine FARC camp, except a long time after the fact?

que nota!

tomtom33 says on Mar 2, 2008, 11:31:

"Right or wrong, the Ecuadorian government may not want to waste their military fighting the FARC." Then they can't complain too loudly when Colombia does it for them.

juancegomez says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:00:

Leaving the issue of the violation of Ecuador's border aside, which is a large part of the actual problem and which wouldn't even happen if FARC didn't violate it first....

I see nothing wrong with attacking FARC using technological means which are not prohibited by international law as far as I can tell.

Other than the limits set by international law, FARC has no right to demand pity or mercy...nor any moral standing from which to do so.

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:04:

O.K. John Wayne, I mean tomtom33, lol. There is a little thing called sovereignty and no country enjoys having a foreign military operating on their soil.

Besides, Ecuadorians have every right to be pissed off. Colombians plan has been to push south, keeping violence and insability away from the major cities and departments with high levels of population. What does this inevitably mean? Ecuador becomes home to more and more FARC but also to people fleeing the violence.

I am aware of the difficulty that the Colombian government faces with respect to the FARC and obviously they need all the help they can get since they have been fighting this war for half a century. But pushing the FARC out of the country into Ecuador is not a very wise move for a variety of reasons that should be quite obvious, and chasing them down within that country is an extremely controversial move that may have serious consequences. Then again, and I am perfectly comfortable admitting that I could be wrong, it may just fade away.

Colombia has enough problems internally, the last thing it needs is problems with its neighbors.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

juancegomez says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:14:

Lcacique: If Colombia attacks FARC they'll move to the borders, true, but it's not simply a "push". It has to be a conscious decision by the guerrillas as a reaction the attacks, and that's a reaction the government can't exactly mandate. Unless you have something else in mind I can't fathom.

I'm not in agreement with violating Ecuador's sovereignty, but I do find it curious how, once upon a time, neighboring countries invoked the right to "hot pursuit" and we didn't make such a fuss about it. Perhaps we should have, I suppose...but now it's the other way around, apparently.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:31:

anyone think the people of Ecuador were beginning to feel the negative effects of Farc?
... a USA base in Ecuador?
the dollar as their currency...
This guy... the Pres of Ecuador has a HOT DECISION to make SOON!

Which way to run? Which way to turn? No where to hide.
And, you know the people there don't cut the pres much slack....
one wrong move, accordingly, he'll be replaced.

Don't believe everything you read... or hear.
Think.
Because fixion is stranger than (what you perceive is the ) truth.

and, thank you.

Ctg Bound says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:39:

Lcacique,

I completley disagree, the more enemies the FARC has the better, if Equador or Ven end up with more problems created by FARC, more people will turn against them.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:41:

Where's LilaM?
I think she has a few choice words for cassinni

and, thank you.

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:44:

juancegomez: I agree to a great degree. Quite frankly, I am not well versed in all of the tactics and strategic moves used by the military against the FARC. Nevertheless, it has been discribed by officials as a "push" South. How many operations have originated from the South?

It seems like the military would have a little more foresight with respect to how the FARC might react...maybe not.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

podborski says on Mar 2, 2008, 12:58:

Lcacique says: "no country enjoys having a foreign military operating on their soil."

So then Ecuador should be thanking Colombia for getting rid of some of the ones that invaded them, right?

man it's going to be fun watching you guys squirm over this one, jajaja

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 13:26:

Ctg Bound:

It depends on who they view as the enemy, the FARC or the Colombian government or both.

pod: so you recognize the FARC as a foreign military and not a terrorist organization. Your beginning to sound more like Chavez. I am shocked.

I by no means am a supporter of the FARC, I am simply conscerned about the possible repercussions. That is all.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

podborski says on Mar 2, 2008, 13:44:

nope Lcacique that's your pal Hugo's claim. So now he's squirming. It's called kharma I believe, jaja!

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 13:46:

My pal Hugo? I have never in my life claimed to be a fan or supporter of Chavez.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

podborski says on Mar 2, 2008, 14:20:

what? you mean cassini and cali are the only guys left? sr t jumped ship long ago too.

so we can't harrass chavez anymore on PBH? No one left to debate? damn.

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 14:46:

Stating that they are the only ones left, are you implying that I was once on "their" side. I admit that I have agreed with some of their points, but this does not mean that I support everything that they say. For that matter, I do not pay enough attention to them to know what their politics are or if they are 100% supporters of Chavez or not.

I see nothing wrong with being critical of all sides, and I recommend it. To criticize one does not mean you support the other. And being critical of them does not mean that they haven't done some positive things as well. Generally, I prefer to criticize the US government because I live in the US and I feel that gives me more of a right.

pod: If you need to argue with someone, let me know. I am sure that we can work something out and I have no problem fulfilling the role of Devil's Advocate. Plus my concern for the poor and my lack of faith in most governments/corporations makes me an easy target.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Mario says on Mar 2, 2008, 14:50:

"To criticize one does not mean you support the other."

This is utter truth. Why some people can't grasp this concept, I'll never know.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2008, 14:58:

yeah, where is Sr Tertius?
He should/would have all the answers AND QUESTIONS... for us here today.. jej! yeah.

and, thank you.

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 15:04:

Thanks Mario...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 15:04:

Thanks Mario...

oops...I guess you get thanked twice, lol.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

podborski says on Mar 2, 2008, 16:15:

sorry Lcacique I'll never accuse of standing for something again!

Did you take lessons from sr t? lol

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2008, 16:30:

Puerto Asis is called: "Muerto asis" ya veo porque!

Lcacique says on Mar 2, 2008, 17:05:

pod: nice try. Don't know how you draw the conclusion that I do not stand for anything. And I thought I was quite clear about the lack of connections to others on the site with respect to my opinions...

Do you stand for something?

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2008, 19:09:

""Ecuador’s president, Rafael Correa, said the rebels were “bombed and massacred as they slept, using precision technology.� He said Colombia’s military violated Ecuador’s airspace and that the camp bombed was 1.2 miles from the border""

quote from msnbc.com..... I like that....'precision technology'... beware... bastards.
You don't suppose it was usa precision, do ya?

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2008, 19:16:

""Ecuador’s president, Rafael Correa, said the rebels were “bombed and massacred as they slept, using precision technology.� He said Colombia’s military violated Ecuador’s airspace and that the camp bombed was 1.2 miles from the border""

quote from msnbc.com..... I like that....'precision technology'... beware... bastards.
You don't suppose it was usa precision, do ya?

and, thank you.