President For Colombia

NataliaV says on Feb 6, 2008, 15:01:

Good question! I'm interested to see the responses!

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Sr Tertius says on Feb 6, 2008, 15:19:

Is anyone going to allow legalization of drug trade?
Is anyone going to scrape Plan Colombia?
Then they don't make a fucking difference. Unless there's a loonie talking about invading Venezuela.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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kabigat says on Feb 6, 2008, 15:26:

no one. Doesn´t make any difference they all say the same BS, change and unity.
want to know more read Doug Tennapel - Creator of Earthworm Jim in :
http://tennapel.com/

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DavidM says on Feb 6, 2008, 16:03:

I voted for Mike Huckabee but believe the best answer to your question is John McCain. He is a decorated war veteran, is concerned with the image of the U.S.A. (America, not North America is in the name) within the world and has a strong position on the war on terror.

Hope this helps.

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peteyw says on Feb 6, 2008, 16:17:

In the short run the best choice would be McCain as he has campaigned on a platform that includes continuing Bush administration policies in these regards. He'd maintain the status-quo.

However, in the long run Obama would be far and away the best choice as he would be best positioned and most inclined to improve the direction of the U.S. role in international relations. That improved 'direction' holds the potential to lead to more progressive relationships with all of Latin America, including Colombia in regards to socio-economic issues, which are the major issues in the developing world.

Fighting hunger and poverty, improving education and healthcare access and greater employment opportunities for the citizens of Colombia are more effective long-term weapons than Plan Colombia. Obama understands this. McCain, Huckabee and Romney would turn a deaf ear. Clinton would play both sides, but at the end of the day, she'd go with what would be in 'her' best interest, not the U.S., or Colombia. IMHO.

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scotty says on Feb 6, 2008, 16:27:

worst would be any democrat.
McCain would probably be good for Colombia, maybe?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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slguy says on Feb 6, 2008, 16:57:

I'm curious how anyone "knows" what Obama would/wouldn't do. with a whopping 2 year Senate record (almost half of which has been spent on the campaign trail), I doubt anyone really knows- unless they just accept him at his word. But then again- no politician would sugarcoat anything, especially one that's still green behind the ears, would they? ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 6, 2008, 17:24:

I doubt Obama would be "good" for Colombia. Unless he has sentimental ties from his drug dealing days. (I am joking for those without a sense of humor)

Sr. T is correct. Abrasive, but correct.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Lisa Zee says on Feb 6, 2008, 18:30:

OBAMA!!!!

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nbenjamin says on Feb 6, 2008, 21:08:

Just a comment. I hate bush. I think he destroyed the U.S.'s image in the world, he dragged this country into a never-ending war, the deficit is out of control, the dollar has gone to sh-t, he has politicized religion, he used 9-11 for his own benefit, his brand of cronyism sickents me etc. With that said, he has been a great President for Colombia. He has increased the amount of money we give to the country and our ties with the country. Who of this batch will be the best? I dont know - but who cares we have our own country to rebuild -

OBAMA 08

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 6, 2008, 23:29:

"Fighting hunger and poverty, improving education and healthcare access and greater employment opportunities for the citizens of Colombia are more effective long-term weapons than Plan Colombia" (peteyw)

Truer words have never been spoken on this forum.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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scotty says on Feb 7, 2008, 00:54:

nothing will change in Colombia until the rebels are gone.
nothing will change in the middle east until the radical islam is gone.
period.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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huskie says on Feb 7, 2008, 03:56:

Does Obama know anything about Colombia? He knows about Oprah Winfried....

Hillary knows quite a bit!!!!

McCain, I doubt very much he cares about Colombia.

Go Hillary

Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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robi666 says on Feb 7, 2008, 04:16:

It does not make any difference.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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rocinante says on Feb 7, 2008, 04:26:

The president does not run the United States. Robbi666 is wise, if that is what he means. He may just be talking about Coolmbia. Regarding large affairs it matters little who is elected. If the entire Bush family died in a car accident in the 1970's the US would still be at war with Iraq today.

"Fighting hunger and poverty, improving education and healthcare access and greater employment opportunities for the citizens of Colombia are more effective long-term weapons than Plan Colombia" peteyw

Sounds good on paper and would make for a good campaign if Colombians replace Cubans in Florida. However more than half of plan Colombia dollars go right to American defense contractors and other US entities. US taxpayers are also paying to protect pipeline(s) of BP and Occidental - instead of the these companies handling their own protection.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 7, 2008, 06:19:

Hey Rocinante - I met a guy who worked for BP in Colombia. He flew a helicopter along the oil pipeline, looking for FARC and other nastys trying to sabotage the pipeline. I will ask him where he got his paycheck from. When we were chatting, he seemed pretty clear that he was an employee of BP. I find the whole thing facinating. Though they were armed for self defense, he said their duty was not to engage but to call the locations into the Colombian army.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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rocinante says on Feb 7, 2008, 06:38:

"Though they were armed for self defense, he said their duty was not to engage but to call the locations into the Colombian army."

RJ - yes do tell. I'd guess he working for BP. The US tax dollars that go to help protect the pipeline are in the form of any Colombian outfit doing the same types of thing your friend is doing.

I will create a scenario that goes something like this: "Colombia, here is some money to spend on eradicating drugs, fighting against Revolutionaries, strengthening your armed forces by purchasing this stuff from my friend who voted for me - he's a defense contractor. Oh and have your people keep an eye on these my oil interests while you're at it."

Most of the plan Colombia money I'm talking about is for the US corporations. The money never leaves the US. The figure is 50%.

A lot of overseas aid tax payers write this off as "Well it's going over seas, to help out the poor so whatever they do with it is no concern of mine because I don't live there"

A good deal of US taxpayers $ disguised as foreign aid ends up back in the US or aiding in other ways.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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robi666 says on Feb 7, 2008, 07:21:

AUC groups were working for big companies. That was their way to keep Guerrilla away from their installations (together with some "little" side effect, like having the unions under control).
I never red anything on that about BP, but sure about Drummond, Comcel, etc. Knowing Colombia just a bit, I'd be surprised if BP never used AUC.

Well, Drummond used to pay FARC as well.

The Colombian army was working all along with AUC.

That's enough said about that money...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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rocinante says on Feb 7, 2008, 07:31:

Agreed Robbi666.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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orestesdd says on Feb 7, 2008, 11:57:

Who? Berrak-Obama? I don't think his first name sound too good in Spanish when it's combined with his first last name initial.

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jh816 says on Feb 7, 2008, 13:01:

Hillary has come out publically and vehemately against the TLC, which disqualifies her right off the bat. Though I think Obama would be a decent president and somewhat free from the political backscratching that goes on, he is still accountable to the democratic party with its HUGE affiliations to the unions. The free trade agreement with Colombia is DOA with any democrat in the White House and the democratically-controlled congress.

McCain, though I'm afraid he's going to keep us in Iraq for a long time and run up that deficit from it, he will probably try to follow up on the republican-led free trade agreements.

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Sr Tertius says on Feb 7, 2008, 13:19:

The assumption being that TLC is good for Colombia. Which is debatable.

Besides, the relevance of a free trade agreement is diminished by the fact that Colombia's main export, coke, will not be freely trade. So much for "free."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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NJ C Rep says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:00:

It depends on your point of view. I voted for McCain this past tuesday. He is a supporter of Free trade and will promote international co-operation. He also wanted to end US farm subsidies (a plus for Colombian agriculture exports to the US). He woild have continued Plan Colombia.

Hillary would most likely continue what Bill did as far as Colombia goes.

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aztec says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:15:

How can you not love Obama, with his vision of rainbow powered love mobiles, unicorn factories, and strawberry scented welfare checks?

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aztec says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:20:

orestesdd says on Thursday February 7th, 2008 11:57:
"Who? Berrak-Obama? I don't think his first name sound too good in Spanish when it's combined with his first last name initial."

Believe his name is Barack Hussein Obama.

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Atrevido says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:24:

El Presidente Berraco!...not.

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Lisa Zee says on Feb 7, 2008, 17:58:

"VOTE FOR McCAIN EXPECT THE SAME" LOLOLOLOL so true!

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eywed says on Feb 7, 2008, 18:46:

Change the rules in the U S and Colombia so both Bush and Uribe can stay a couple more terms. YES!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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NJ C Rep says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:15:

McCain and Bush didn't really get along. although they agree on the Iraq qar, McCain thought it could have been better thought and wanted Bush's defense seceretary to resign. He is anything but the same ol' thing.

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eywed says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:20:

I think we can afford for the dems to get in . More taxes? UGH I'm hurting now.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:21:

i like obama, but i think mccain would be the best man for next term. it is gonna be alot of work and will probably take two terms.

- we've got to get the hell out of iraq......

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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eywed says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:24:

Ur right about Iraq. But the spending the dems want to do scare me. I like my tax breaks I get. Dems in there gone.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:26:

yep. either way it is gonna be a rough ride for several more years.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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eywed says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:30:

Yup!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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ColombianoGringo says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:39:

"Hillary has come out publically and vehemately against the TLC, which disqualifies her right off the bat. "

I think the TLC is bad for the Colombian people's best interests. So Hillary's stance on that issue is not a negative in my opinion.

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 7, 2008, 19:59:

TLC is bad for Colombia???? I think thats the key point here. I disagree with that statement. If the TLC allowed for the financing of Uribes current "Seguridad Democratica" then I think its great for Colombia. Based upon the improvements in my city since Uribe has been in office I can say that its pretty good. But Im sure not all will agree with this.

But as far as US politicians running for office. I think the same questiona applies. If you are for free trade then youll have a diffferent view of whos the ideal candidate.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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manINred says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:20:

TLC

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el torcido says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:29:

my dad is 18-year vet, super conservative, 72-yr-old. even he agrees, the only way to retard the cocaine growing and farming is to eliminate the demand. it doesn't take alot of sense to understand this. Oh, by the way, is McCain for ....... getting out of Iraq? just asking. and thanks.

there'sa buddist, yandarhamibogvhanaa... or something, coming to my town for a talk this month; I wonder what those guys think of legalization.

don't know much about 'conomy

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eywed says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:33:

Manlnerd Who picks up the bill for all the useless folks that a legalized drug policy will lead to ?

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:45:

eywed - the taxes levied on the "legal" drugs of course. 40% of social services in holland are paid for by taxing the mary jane.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:46:

its just that the government will never allow it to happen, even if it is feasible.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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manINred says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:49:

Pricey

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ColombianoGringo says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:50:

mIr,

TLC means Tratado de Libre Comercio or Free Trade Agreement between the US and Colombia.

This agreement as currently written will mainly help large US corporations, particularly large pharmaceuticals and agriculture conglomerates. Colombian exporters will not find large legal markets in the US beyond flowers and coffee. At the same time, Colombian companies and farmers will have a harder time when they have to compete with large US companies that will be eager to flood the Colombian marketplace with their goods and services. Obviously, some Colombian sectors will see benefits, but they aren't enough to overcome the negative aspects.

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:51:

i think it is $5 or $10 a gram here....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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goin_south says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:53:

"Who picks up the bill for all the useless folks that a legalized drug policy will lead to "?

BILL & HILLARY. THEY'LL ALL FEEL COMFORTABLE TOGETHER.

Are there any woman on pbh that support these two ???
I didn't think so; we got smart ladies here!

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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manINred says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:54:

interesting

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 7, 2008, 20:56:

CG - will it not bring down the price of most consumer items? everytime i go to carrullas, i cringe and thank god i do not have to shop here for these items.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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rocinante says on Feb 7, 2008, 21:44:

TLC is the last thing Colombia needs. ColombianoGringo thanks for putting the plan into perspective in so many words or less = The US benefits/Colombia loses.

Tejas: An average Colombian family spends 10K on groceries for dinner (a little less but I like round numbers). TLC brings down the price of chicken here in Colombia. The US farmers and US economy directly benefit. Colombian farmers lose. Because of the lower price, US farmed Chicken now replaces other items on the dinner table. The Colombian Family saves 1000 (more like 700 but I like round numbers) pesos on dinner, purchasing US steroid injected antibiotic drugged up chicken instead of organic Colombian beef. The family has been paying the 10K for years and can still afford the 10K but is now paying 9K. A good thing, however all the profits go to the US instead of Colombia.

Repeat this list adnauseum inserting other items the US produces instead of chicken.

In the short term, on paper it looks good for Colombian families on a budget. But in the long run Colombian companies, competing now with the US, get crunched, lay off workers and lower quality.

The family saves 30K a month but .25 a family members in the household, over time, lose a 400K job.

Net result the family is now minus $70,000 pesos a month.

This is good for the US workers, so in Colombian communities in the US this is supported out lack of knowledge. This is also supported in Colombia in the extremely poor urban barrios up to the middle class as they will do anything to save 30K a month and the layoffs "probably won't affect us - we'll take our chances"

The urban poor up to the middle class don't understand how this works nor the consequences involved. Someone has told them TLC means saving money on goods - Just like you. Who benefits?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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goin_south says on Feb 7, 2008, 21:50:

oh yeah? and fk! those chinese sending crawfish to Cameron, too!

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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droble77 says on Feb 7, 2008, 23:40:

"The urban poor up to the middle class don't understand how this works nor the consequences involved. Someone has told them TLC means saving money on goods - Just like you. Who benefits?"

Yep, this is what I've been thinking for awhile. The TLC is overhyped, it's NOT a panacea for Colombia's deepest most important problems.

Who benefits mostly is probably the Oviedo mall crowd, like those upper-crust middle-aged ladies I've seen who come in with their SUVs to go shopping there. Not that they need a discount. :) Maybe certain types of business-owners as well since they will pay less for American technology?

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huskie says on Feb 8, 2008, 04:01:

GS

I support the Clintons 100%. Does that make a stupid Lady? I think not!!!
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 8, 2008, 06:46:

sounds like a modified agreement is needed in which only items not currently produced here can flow in without tariffs.

- i've seen the steroid chicken videos. one of the saddest things i have ever witnessed. i started buying only free range, organic products in the usa because of that knowledge.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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slguy says on Feb 8, 2008, 07:04:

"I support the Clintons 100%. Does that make a stupid Lady? I think not!!!"

well, in your avatar, you ARE hanging out with a guy who's wearing a skirt....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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rocinante says on Feb 8, 2008, 07:05:

I edited my numbers, although I don't like editing posts I thought it appropriate as I see I exaggerated a bit, as usual.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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goin_south says on Feb 8, 2008, 10:24:

huskie, ....
Hillary = la diabla
If she wins the presidency... I will likely be joining some of our colleagues in Colombia ... sooner, ... than later ;-)

thanks slguy! I think you said it all!

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2008, 11:06:

People were commenting that TLC a lot during my last visit in Colombia (it's been two full years now), most of it just casually, but the idea was that my upper-class dedo-parado middle-aged female friends were totally for it: "Oh, Desi, this will be just like shopping in Miami!". The red flags of my mind went up immediately. The more I hear, the more I read about the TLC/FTA USA-Colombia, the less I like it. I'm not an economist, but I can understand ColombianoGringo's reasoning to the very last word.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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huskie says on Feb 8, 2008, 18:54:

SL, What is that suposed to mean? My avatar with a guy wearing a skirt? FYI that skirt is called a kilt and it is worn by Scottish men, in this case he is wearing a special kilt, forget the name but it is used for formal ocassions, nothing to do with supporting the Clinton's 100%
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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goin_south says on Feb 8, 2008, 18:58:

huskie... we men in america, most of us,
don't relate well to guys who wear dresses.

Let's not skirt the issue

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 8, 2008, 21:45:

men in skirts definitely support clinton. they call them patos.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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goin_south says on Feb 8, 2008, 23:07:

hey mitch.. you coming to Bogota in March?

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 8, 2008, 23:10:

ill be in medellin the last week of feb. when are you going to be in bogota? maybe ill pass by.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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lpdiver says on Feb 8, 2008, 23:11:

Vote for Pedro!

t

"cook some rice!"

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 06:46:

"Let's not skirt the issue" jajajajjajajajja

kilt, skirt, whatever. girlyman clothing.

sorry. couldn't help myself. when someone being escorted by a girlyman voices support for Hillary, it's difficult to restrain myself. i'll try to do better in the future, i promise.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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goin_south says on Feb 9, 2008, 21:09:

no, Mitch... I was just wantin' to know ''WHEN NOT TO GO TO BOGOTA''....jjaj

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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el torcido says on Feb 10, 2008, 00:33:

g_s, you aren't thinking straight, now are you?

don't know much about 'conomy

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MitchAlvarez says on Feb 10, 2008, 00:34:

gs lol oh ok......... ill have fun with the ladies myself. hey send me numbers to your girls in bogota so i can take care of them for you.

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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goin_south says on Feb 10, 2008, 00:37:

Tg, Cg, y Hg...
...jajjej.. ... one, two, and three... Oh! I forgot: MSaucey!

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

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