/.

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:08:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

CatGirl says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:17:

Eywed...hope you understand. I really had difficulty listening to our commander & chief tonight...what were to two points he made for Colombia. Thanks as I am interested in that

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:21:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

CatGirl says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:23:

That's good! No mention of a joint diabolical plot to take out Chavez, eh? haha

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

alezzz says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:23:

:-) so Chavez couldn't sleep tonight...

---Music is the strongest form of magic.---

msaucey says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:24:

Eywed, that is like the best Summary of Bush's speeches as I've ever read.... Quick and simple!.. thanks... everything else is just details...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:27:

/.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

chitowngui510 says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:35:

the dems are the ones blocking the free trade agreement with Colombia. They support Peru but not Colombia. I hope the agreement passes on the next vote.


http://www.miamiherald.com/103/story/385568.html

'Colombia has also lobbied intensely for the trade pact. Colombia's ambassador to Washington, Carolina Barco, said in 2007 there were 14 visits by senior Colombian government officials, including three by Uribe himself. Colombian officials briefed 123 Democrats and 64 Republicans.

Bush administration officials say Democratic members, fearful of coming under attack by labor groups, are unlikely to express their preferences until they are faced with a vote. But such a vote is unlikely until House Majority leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi agrees to it, and so far she has refused to move Colombia.

On its website, the AFL-CIO calls Colombia the ''most dangerous country in the world for union members'' and on Jan. 9 the labor group put out a briefing paper challenging some Colombian government data on violence. Union murders and threats continue, the paper says, and 97 percent of the killings go unpunished'

"Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying" - The Shawshank Redemption

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 28, 2008, 21:58:

Uribe needs this to pass. He needs the funds to fight off la negra cordoba, el burro chavez and the terroristas de las selvas colombianas.

scotty says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:12:

the Dems have treated Colombia terrible. they block free trade with Colombia and then that jackass Al Gore insults Uribe and Colombia.
Im glad Bush mentioned Colombia twice. God Bless the people of Colombia, they are one of our best allies, we should support them every way possible.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:22:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:32:

AlGore is a penguin. Im not even a big Bush guy but Im glad he won over Bore and then Cherry.

Colombia is key for the US position in Latin America. These Democrats who approved the same stupid bill with Peru (Who? Per what?) come on!!!

Chavez is campaigning for the Democratic party I can bet you that much. So he can come in and keep poisining Latin America with his BS.

Wake the F up Congress and pass the stupid bill already.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:33:

eywed latino vote is always a big question because people get all sensitive when the immigration topic is brought up.

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:37:

..

Ay Hombe!!!!!

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:42:

i know this might sound silly but its the freakin truth. the latino vote still to this day is overatted unless your in florida, texas, california, and new york.

we dont have the voting pressence yet. we might now be the bigger minority but definitely not in regards to voters. In Florida you will continue to have cubans vote for Republicans (anti castro), in California well what can I say holllywood liberals and clinton buddies, and well new york latinos are really all puerto ricans.

its really tricky... not yet... maybe later but latinos dont have the voting numbers yet.

eywed says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:49:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

Robert Jorge says on Jan 28, 2008, 22:54:

You are correct Mitch. And that is why some Democrats and even a few Republicans have tried very hard to get amnesty for the illegal immigrants. They would be a potential 12 to 15 million person constituency. For example, there is a shitload of Latinos in Georgia. But they can't vote (legally), because they are undocumented (illegal). But if they were "saved" and allowed to become legal, they would vote for their emancipator - generally the liberal politician who is "fighting for their cause", but really just wants a big bunch of guaranteed votes. I am being very simplistic, but that is the jist of it.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

slguy says on Jan 28, 2008, 23:02:

with the elcetoral votes those 4 states hold(florida, texas, california, and new york) that's pretty significant power already, if latinos learn from the cubans and wield it effectively.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 28, 2008, 23:21:

rj good point.

slugy oh yea i agree 100%. i think down the line yes. but you see sadly enough for us latinos we are divided amongst ourselves. colombians, mexicans, dominicans, puerto ricans, cubans we all have our own battles.

my family obviously from colombia cant stand dominicans for example. i dated a dominican girl a couple of years back and my half my relatives here in ny didnt talk to me. puerto ricans have battles within themselves. those born in the island vs the newyoricans. cubas pro castro vs the other side of the story. mexicans...even more complicated.

its really complex.

so not until i see some unity will i see the latino vote really counting.

slguy says on Jan 28, 2008, 23:27:

I was married for FAR too long to a puertoriquena. I can relate.

Sounds like a good fit for the democratic party. Those bozos are always screwing the pooch, fightin' among themselves, too.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 02:03:

Hey Mitch--Many Latinos(as) Vote Democratic because they remember what Party so far has done the most for working Class Latinos--Like these Programs They(dems) passed such as Medicare, Medicaid, GI BIll of Rights for Returning Military Veterans, VA Home Loans that enabled millions of Veterans to buy Homes, the FDIC that guaranteed working class small working class savers(latinos included) would have their Savings insured up to $100,000, Family Friendly Leave Act, Anti Discrimination Laws ect that allowed working class Latinos to progress here in the US. What Laws have Republicans ACTUALLY signed into Law that Benefit working class Latinos?? Be Specific Please,,, Sounds like the Latinos who have benefitted under the republicans are the few in the Income Class of Carlos Slim. BTW, don't forget under whose watch Plan Colombia was iniated and that was Clinton, not Bush.. The Free Trade Accords have been held up due to the fact that Colombia was sitting on the Investigations of those Trade Union and news Reporter Deaths and only until recently, did they((uribe) start to push for a more Vigorous investigation into these Murders and bring the Perps to Justice. There always are strings attached to US Aid and this is one of them. Colombia always has the option to forego the US Aid and go it alone. I am one American who would prefer to forego the massive outlays of US Aid as we could use it home to fund many programs such as the VA Medical System for our Veterans. As it is now, those massive amounts of US $$ Aid given to Colombia these days have to be borrowed from the Chinese and it puts us into financial Hock for years to come by us owing the Chinese and Japanese for decades into the future.We, the US are placing our own Economic well being in Peril by this Massive amount of Borrowing. I doubt anyone would dispute that fact! Those who Claim Uribe to be such a Good Friend of the USA ; how Good of a Friend would he be IF his Country was not receiving Billions in US Aid thru Plan Colombia? Seems like his Loyalty has been bought and paid for. That would be an interesting study in and of itself. It seems when the US isn't doling out massive amounts of AID many countries turn their Backs on the US in its time of Need. Though I never agreed with the US Invasion of Iraq, seems many of our Friends(?) who received Large Amounts of US Aid turned their backs on us when we needed their Help most with troops in Iraq. Those who did send help for the most part have either pulled their Troops out of Iraq or are planning to do so. So much for our Friends,,,Fair weather Friends at Best,,,Only Britian and Tony Blair, who we haven't doled Aid out to have stuck by us thru thick and thin,,,a True Friend,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 02:19:

BTW, ask those Miami/Union City, NJ Cubans(also Latinos last I knew) who ardentlysupport the Republicans every Election Cycle what concrete Benefits were actually passed by Republicans that benefitted them and the Slate comes up empty. They(cubans) talk a lot of Crap but when it comes time to where the Rubber meets the Road, they cannot list one benefit passed by the Republicans that benefit them. Not One,,If someone may know of one, please post it here or a link to one so we all may be enlightened. The Biggest Benefit they enjoy, over all other Immigrant Groups, the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1967, that grants them Fast Track US Residency, was passed and signed into Law by Prez LB Johnson(dem) and a Democratic Congress. The Most recent law that many are taking Advantage of to this very Minute is the Wet/Dry Foot law signed into Law by Clinton. This of course allows Cubans to remain in the US if they touch Wet Foot to dry US soil. Cubans are an easy Gullible Lot to fool; every 4 years the Repubs make their Obligatory pass thru Little Habana here in Miami, Drink a cafecito, Blab some bla bla bla Fidel is the Devil BS and they have the Cuban Vote hooked. No matter that in all these Years of Voting for a Republican President, Cuba is NO closer to getting rid of Castro(or a facsimile) then it was in 1965,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Albatross says on Jan 29, 2008, 04:41:

Ralph Nader said it best back during the 2000 election: "George Bush is a corporation disguised as a man"

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

nueva york bombero says on Jan 29, 2008, 05:58:

"new york latinos are really all puerto ricans"


There's a huge hispanic population from all over Latin America, not just PR!

You live in NY, but were you born and raised here? Just a Q.....not an attack.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 06:54:

MiamiMike, great info. You know alot more about some of that stuff than I do. Im just telling you from what I get with conversations of other latinos who will be able to vote. I generalized and made blanket statements but of course there is always another side to every story. Listen I wont get into Clinton because that would lead us in many different directions. My point is this everyone should vote on their own personal interest. I am a registered Democrat but in the past two elections I voted for George Bush. Neither Bore nore Cherry were the answer to me during the turbulent times. Im not sure where I stand right now. Still have some time to decide. But overall latinos have two main issues. First we need unite and become a stronger voting body. Two we need to come to terms with what are our true interests. During this particular election I am interested in the TLC for Colombia because my people are so much better today than in 1986 when you would see daily shootings, bombings and all sorts of crazy shit.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:00:

NYB no problem bro I know its a questions.

Listen I lived in Colombia for a good part of my early childhood. But ive since returned and been here in NY for 13 years straight. I know NY very well. Yes I know we have Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Colombians, Mexicans, and other Central American countries represented in this state.

I was reffering to the voting population. Now Mexicans and other central american countries are really migrating into NY but they dont vote. Who votes in NY? Puerto Ricans and a small percentage of dominicans. Ive participated in campaigns NYB. In college I would go to meeting for college republicans and democrats. I went to school upstate in Albany where all the you know what goes on. I worked with the Black and PuertoRican legislative caucus that just recently changed its name to hispanic.

take a look. http://assembly.state.ny.us/comm/BlackPR/20030130a/

nueva york bombero says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:03:

Why would you devote so much time and energy to politics? For a job or for change?
It's such a world of Bullshit, but if you're in it for the right reasons.... God bless you!

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:11:

NYB well I actually like politics man. I guess I was raised listening to my uncles in Colombia go back and forth (one socialist the other a big time capi) and it stood in me. They would end up drunk on aguardiente and someone would call the other a fag by the end of the night. lol

funny stories man.


im not in politics because i cant get into it. ive done a lot of not so good things in my life. my record is not clean. but i do like to talk about it and listen to others points of view.

nueva york bombero says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:13:

I agree it's interesting, but when you're affected by politics (losing jobs, family fucked with) it definitely makes you realize 99% of politicians are completely full of shit!

Rikito says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:20:

miami, I agree with Albatross on your comments. Virtually all of the programs you mention were passed under the presidency of Franklin Roosevelt, a great Democrat. Many think Roosevelt; a Democrat was a great if not the greatest of the American President's. I don't. Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat took America to war for political and not moral reasons. At the time of Pearl Harbor there were 11,000,000 Americans out of work mainly due to the failure of his many socialist programs and his loyalty to Britain. Roosevelt, a Democrat took American to a war that killed 406,000 American soldiers. Truman, Democrat followed and gave us Korea that killed 58,000 American soldiers and dropped the atomic bomb that killed 500,000 Japanese. Eisenhower, a Republican did little of anything other than play golf. Kennedy, a Democrat began our involvement in Vietnam, Johnson, a Democrat, escalated the Vietnam War that killed 58,000 American soldiers. Nixon, a Republican got us out of Vietnam. Carter, a Democrat was 'Out To Lunch' for four years. Reagan, a Republican brought 800 hostages out of Iran that Carter, a Democrat probably thought were at a boy scout camp building homes for poor people. Clinton, a Democrat got us into Bosnia, etc., a place we should never had been involved with. Clinton, a Democrat fortunately did little else other than get ‘little Bill’ buffed by Monica and others as did JFK. The Bushies, Republican’s brought us Iraq…for only one reason…oil and so far slightly over 3,000 American soldiers have been killed. And currently, the Democrats are doing anything and everything to block any initiative that George attempts to get passed.

Since the beginning of the 1900’s the Democrats have been responsible for more military and civilian deaths than all of the Republican President’s combined. The Democrats also enslaved interred thousands of American-Japanese citizen’s. Oh, and let’s not forget Woody Wilson, a Democrat who got us into World War 1 that killed 112,000 American soldiers.

So of course the Democrats passed most of the legislation you state, was it guilt for being responsible for the death of so many American soldiers, or was it socialism? FDIC was created after the Depression to control banks and stop abuses or speculators and had very little to do with the working class small working class savers. Most of them didn’t even have enough money to put in a bank in the first place and after the depression if was worse.

I am neither a Democrat nor Republican because there is little difference between them except the D’s so enjoy taxing people (and how do the poor benefit from all of the taxes passed by the D’s?). R’s just love to take care of the wealthy (so say the D’s). They also love to cut taxes that the D’s foolishly pass. D’s love to spend money that they do not have which is one of the principal reasons why the U.S. borrows so much. Remember that the D’s who are responsible for most of “social‿ spending which also established entitlement programs which is a big reason behind the massive borrowing.

Why does the U.S. give money to countries like Colombia? As you rightly indicate, we are buying their friendship, but where would Colombia and other countries be today with the U.S. aid? Ask Hugo, he knows.
In your conclusion you say that, “No matter that in all these Years of Voting for a Republican President, Cuba is NO closer to getting rid of Castro‿ And the Democrats have done what during 1959 to present? Ah…the Bay of Pigs betrayal by JFK, a Democrat. In that little event, about 100 U.S. and Cuban exiles and 4,000-5,000 Cuban citizens died.

What I am trying to get at is that the D’s and the R’s really suck and have made the U.S. a much weaker nation and a much more disliked nation than the forefathers or Constitution ever intended. But what is the alternative?

What can make Latino's stronger? Besides unity and becoming a strong voting block, Latinos need to become better educated. The Blacks long ago realized that education was their only way out of the end of slavery. They still have a long way to go, but this year for the first time in U.S. history there is a viable Black candidate for President. It is a shame that Latinos as a whole remain at the bottom of the education ladder. There are so many great individual Latinos in the U.S. that have made great contributions to the American way of life. But Latinos are not viewed that way by the American populate? Why? As a race of peoples, Latinos are strong, intelligent, great citizens, and highly regarded in the U.S.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:33:

Rikito we just finally became the bigger minority in terms of numbers. We just now have second generation college graduates. I think african americans have the upper hand since they have been in College and not undocumented like many of my latinos have.

When my cousin went to College there were only 4 or 5 latinos in his campus. All puerto Rican by the way. When I graduated we had an organization called Fuerza latina that had over 7000 active participants.

We are coming. We are coming strong. We have our divisions that are holding us back. But we are coming.

Rikito says on Jan 29, 2008, 08:27:

I was recently asked to speak to some high school students at a private school here in Armenia, Colombia. The teachers wanted me to talk about what it takes to be successful. I stressed that completing their education will allow them to do almost anything and be almost anyone. Without an education, life would very be difficult.

It's the same in the U.S. Latinos need to fight as hard if not harder than Black Americans to achieve quality education rights. You can hate Bush all you want and take the cheap shots his Presidency probably deserves, but he has more Latinos and Black Americans in his administration than any other President in U.S. history. Two years ago, I had the honor of meeting the U.S. Secretary of Commerce, Carlos Gutierrez. Mr. Gutierrez has a degree in Business Administration from Mexico and fled from Cuba in 1960. His life took a long hard road, but like most Latinos he had strength of character and strong family values that made his success.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 08:28:

i agree

donmia says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:00:

I'm not so sure i understand the point of the history lesson, Rikito. Much of it seems to be poorly informed at best. No offense, but I'm not aware of anyone who takes the position "FDR should never have gotten into WWII." Sure, Americans would not have died in the war, but what kind of world would we have had? Grumble about Chavez all you like, but his plans are nowhere in the league of Hitler & Co.

As for our current president, it's getting harder and harder to find anyone who supports him. Even those who agreed with and pushed for his election (my brother) are embarassed at how badly he's done what he said he would do. No disagreement with the vision, just that he is incompetent. Biggest complaint among Republicans here has been "cutting taxes good, spending like a drunken sailor to keep constituents happy bad"

our approach (both Dems and Repubs) has been a credit card economy: spend like you just got a new credit card with a low interest rate and live like you are rich. When the bill finally comes due: don't be in power and let someone else pay the check. (see: Reagan)

slguy says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:00:

"They would end up drunk on aguardiente and someone would call the other a fag by the end of the night. lol"

Sounds like clyde would feel right at home in one of your family discussions, mitch. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

droble77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:03:

"BTW, ask those Miami/Union City, NJ Cubans(also Latinos last I knew) who ardently support the Republicans every Election Cycle what concrete Benefits were actually passed by Republicans that benefited them and the Slate comes up empty. They (Cubans) talk a lot of Crap but when it comes time to where the Rubber meets the Road, they cannot list one benefit passed by the Republicans that benefit them."

LOL, Mike, you know most Cubans, especially the old guard, HATE the Democratic party with a passion because they still feel "betrayed" about the Bay of Pigs and the Dems of course skew left and the Cubans have a knee-jerk reaction against anything that's slightly left, it's automatically communism as far as they're concerned! :0) Clinton actually had an okay relationship for a Democrat with the Miami Right, until Reno screwed things up.

To this day, I STILL believe, Gore would have won Florida if it wasn't for the Reno Fiasco and that infamous picture. You have to understand, most Anglo-Americans don't hold political grudges but Cubans do. Most Americans saw Elian and figured what's the big friggin' deal if he goes back to his father? But a smart guy like Clinton should have realized that the Elian kid symbolized all kinds of shit like Operation Peter Pan, all the balseros over the years, Cubans leaving family for better opportunities, and all the emotions that brings up.

So the gains Clinton made with the Miami Cubans were all lost by the time it was in play for Gore. And the rest is history. . .

Albatross says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:08:

"My point is this everyone should vote on their own personal interest." - MitchAlverez

Congratulations, you've just summed-up in one sentence why America is so completely fucked-up –
a quarter of a billion people... all thinking only of themselves instead of their country.

So much for being a true citizen and loving your mother.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:10:

lol dramatic arent we!!

its the reality of life dude

droble77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:12:

I do agree with you that Cuban politics is extremely irrational and fubared. I've been to Cuba several times and I really love the music and the culture but the politics and the inconvenience of traveling there made me find "greener pastures" thus Colombia. Of course, Colombia has serious problems too but at least it's not as fubared as Cuba and I can travel there legally. :)

As for Colombia, although I DON'T agree with the Democratic Party's stance with regards to the TLC, it is a LEGITIMATE stance based on real concerns.

And why should the Democratic Party offend one of their core constituents (the unions) in an election year? Would the Republican Party do the same?

In any case, I think the TLC for Colombia will come through but NOT in '08 when so much is at stake for the Dems. Maybe in '09. Uribe needs to see this and be patient. If he's smart, he's building contacts with Dems despite Gore's rebuff.

Rikito says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:23:

donmia, my mistake. I believe it was an 11% unemployment rate. Burt, my other facts are very correct. My point in all of this is don't look to the Democrats as a savior for the ill and down trodden. I don't understand what you mean by the phras, "our approach."

Who pays the check? The U.S, pays like the current bail out of subprime mortgages. These people made a bad decison or were duped and now who pays. You and me and the failing U.S. economy.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:37:

I Vote Independent also. Voted for a Repub Governor in last year's Governor's race--for Charlie Crist in fact! May Vote for Romney this time due to his Anti Amnesty stance! I vote for Politicians on Issues I feel strongly about that may effect that Change should he get into Office due my Vote. For Me, I like what Romney did as far as insuring all People in his state(health insurance) and his Anti-Amnesty Stance.Still in prior posts, someone asked why the Latinos vote for Dems and I didn't see a rebutal with a Credible Link. They(latinos) remembered what Laws some Dem Presidents(congressmen/Senators) did for them(or their Grandparents) and they have Long memories. In the case of Mr Gutierrez who rose to a high Position in Pepsi(or was it Coco Cola) Don't forget, if it wasn't for Anti Discrimination Laws passed back in the 60s by Dems, there is NO way he would ascended that high in Industry, no matter how Smart or Capable he was. Retired General Colin Powell said as much even referring to himself as a "Kid of the Roosevelt times" or something similiar.Show me some Latinos, prior to the 60s here in the USA, that rose to mainstream high postions in US Industry Even Cuban friends of mine here in Miami informed me when they first arrived in Miami in the 50s-60s, Signs used to permeate the area saying "Blacks&Latinos Not served here in this restaurant", Rent Signs would say NO RENTALS to Blacks/Spics ect. That was rectified in the 60s with Anti Discrimination laws signed into Law by Kennedy/Johnson. Miamian Jorge Mas Canosa(extreme right winger Republican Cuban who died in the 90s)who founded MasTec in Miami even admitted so much, though grudingly so. He used to visit Clinton in the WH--he wasn't some fool, he played both sides politically and he had a good insight to who helped him, NO matter what party.Most Cubans don't know what he did and they are Bamboolezed easily by Washington Politicians bearing empty promises. They are a One Issue Voting block who haven't a clue about the other issues that affect mainstream America.

Speaking of Operation Pedro Panin the early 60s, we know(what party's President) who signed that Bill into Law,,,,

The Mexicans like Democrats--no surprise there lest we forget what 60s Presidental Candidate helped Cesar Chavez in his quest to Organize the Mexican Lettuce Pickers, Robert Kennedy. You ask why many Latinos Vote for the Democrats--well at one time they helped the Latinos when NO one else would and they remember that fact when they enter the Voting Booth.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Albatross says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:42:

MitchAlverez -
So as you need to work harder and harded just to pay the bills, or when you get sick due to contaminated food, or when you get stuck with tens-of-thousands of dollars worth of medical expenses, or when you can't afford to send your kids to college, or when your job is outsourced, or when your house burns down due to sub-code wiring...
I hope you won't think that anyone else should care.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

Rikito says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:42:

good comment miami

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:53:

Thanks Rikito, I am not done Yet! LOL This is a Subject dear to me as I had Aunts and Uncles, Grandparents who lost everything when the Banks Crashed in the Great Depression.

I personally think FDR(roosevelt) was the Right Man for the Job at the Time. The Time was the Depression and had he not acted Decisively, who knows what may have been our Future. His Actions pulled us out of the depression. Its pretty detailed here in this Wikipedia Link! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression


" The Great Depression began in October 1929, when the stock market in the United States dropped rapidly. Thousands of investors, large and small, lost large sums of money in the Stockmarket and Banks(no FDIC insurance up to that time to protect small savers) and many were wiped out, lost everything. The 'crash' led us into the Great Depression. The ensuing period ranked as the longest and worst period of high unemployment and low business activity in modern times. Banks, stores, and factories were closed and left millions of Americans jobless, homeless, and penniless. Many people came to depend on the government or charity to provide them with food.

The Depression became a worldwide business slump of the 1930's that affected almost all nations. It led to a sharp decrease in world trade as each country tried to protect their own industries and products by raising tariffs on imported goods. Some nations changed their leader and their type of government. In Germany, poor economic conditions led to the rise to power of the dictator Adolf Hitler. The Japanese invaded China, developing industries and mines in Manchuria. Japan claimed this economic growth would relieve the depression. This militarism of the Germans and Japanese eventually led to World War II (1939-1945).

In the United States, President Herbert Hoover held office when the Great Depression began. The economy continued to slump almost every month. Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected President in 1932. Roosevelt's 'new deal' reforms gave the government more power and helped ease the depression. The Great Depression ended as nations increased their production of war materials at the start of World War II. This increased production provided jobs and put large amounts of money back into circulation. "

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

aztec says on Jan 29, 2008, 09:56:

His (FDR) death was only one of two times I ever saw my Mother cry.

MaFe says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:02:

I definitely don't vote democrat, and will never do...but I was taught;
speaking about politics and religion cause horrible arguments...so as opinionated as I am, I choose not to step on any toes here in regards to these two topics..outside of this board I love politics/religion....
.....and like the little monkey to my right says "be nice."

=()

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

Rikito says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:12:

I agree that Roosevelt did many great things, but almost any other President would done the same...like Truman. There was a hidden side to Roosevelt that was not pretty. We did not need to go to war...Hitler ditn't attack us and was no threat. And please, don't think that the Italians made us afraid. No, Roosevelt wanted to go to war as a way of stimulating the economy. He knew the Japanese were going to attack and he let them...to death of how many., how many? Hell, many of our private industies supported Hitler. Texaco sold him much of his oil, etc. The truth is, in my opinion, that Roosevelt purposefully steered us into war. It took a lot of heat off of him. And great tho some think he was...many of his programs at the end of the day were failures.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

Albatross says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:13:

By embracing certain facets of Socialism, FDR literally saved the country from Capitalism... a lesson forgotten by modern corporate apologists, rampant free-trade proponents, and simple-minded Republicans.

Colombia and most of Latin America lacks social safety-nets like those FDR created, this is why there is almost no middle-class and why being poor in Latin America is so much more difficult that it is in the U.S.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

MaFe says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:15:

Alba..I agree with the limited middle class in Colombia comment...

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:21:

Aztec--my old Man used to constantly Criticize Roosevelt and I never could understand why as he was a Child of the depression. He never married until he was like 44 and that was in 1944. He was one of the lucky who only had to pay 20 quarters(5 years) into Social Security to receive benfits. When he retired in 1965(first time) all he ever did was Bitch about his SS Check either too small or arriving ONE DAY LATE. I got my Calculator out one day in front of him and tabulated his benefits. It came out my Old Man only payed in like $6000 from 1937 to 1965(ss witholding was small way back when). Within a few years(like 4-5) he had EVERY SINGLE DIME back in benefits he ever payed out and he collected Benefits a Total of 26 Friggin' years after his First SS Check. I would say he got a Pretty Good Return on his Investment--better then many of us here posting will ever get get back out of SS. To Him, Roosevelt was a Non Person. Oh and he availed himself to Medicare also, Thank You. My Old Man complained about people like Johnson, Roosevelt ect who really helped him but NOT ONCE did I ever see him send back that Nice Monthly SS Check to Washington that afforded him a very Nice Secure Retirement.Some People dodn't know when they have it Good and who their Friends were, my Old man was such a Person,,,He even complained about Harry Truman who pulled the Trigger on the Atomic Bomb and effectively ended WW2. He said Truman was "Bullshitter" and talked to much; the Japanese who were on the receiving end of Truman's Action that day would vigorously disagree with him,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Albatross says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:31:

... I mean FDR got the entire country back on it's feet after the worst depression this country's ever known.
But the Bush administration couldn't even deal with one simple, widely predicted hurricane for Christ's sake. A little wind and rain from Mother Nature, and FEMA folded up like a cheap umbrella... and here we are years later and New Orleans is STILL a disaster.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:33:

Albatross says on Tuesday January 29th, 2008 10:13:

By embracing certain facets of Socialism, FDR literally saved the country from Capitalism... a lesson forgotten by modern corporate apologists, rampant free-trade proponents, and simple-minded Republicans.

Colombia and most of Latin America lacks social safety-nets like those FDR created, this is why there is almost no middle-class and why being poor in Latin America is so much more difficult that it is in the U.S.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albatross-Good Point you make! The One Country that has done something smiliar to us is Chile! They have a pretty advanced Pension plan invested and its interesting to note, they have the best Economy in South America, not to mention a Stable Currency.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

droble77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 11:34:

People naturally want to have their cake and eat it too. They want low taxes AND all sorts of entitlements, safety-nets, good infrastructure, a strong military to keep us safe from the bad people, etc. etc.

I know the U.S. will never be like Scandinavia, or Canada, or some of the European "welfare" states. This country is too big, too diverse, too complicated to adopt a high-tax model. The culture is against it. On the other hand, I think in an ever more technological and uncertain world, people will look to, or rely on "big govt." more than ever. So it'll be interesting to see how this conflict plays out in the U.S. in the years ahead. . .

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 29, 2008, 11:51:

Albatross youve made your point. I understand your concern. But its like the half empty half full arguement. Its really a point of view. Thats why we have different political parties and many different views.

I respectfully disagree. I dont think there is a perfect vision or establishment. I think any particular instituted for the good of any community will always have its flaws. I think human beings are complex and society evolves on a daily basis.

But in the end trying to solve world hunger/peace you might forget to take care of your own business and what really should concern you.

donmia says on Jan 29, 2008, 15:03:

mike, can't really pin you down where you are politically. lots of praise for progressive ideals and proposals, but then you're backing Romney. He promises to undo everything that Roosevelt and Johnson did. And as for the social security, healthcare and other stuff he did in Massachusetts, his argument is "I was governor of Massachusetts; the liberals made me do it" and now says he's anti-choice and super-mega hates the homos.

Of all the candidates, i can't believe anyone believes this guy. He's been both sides of everything.

miamimike says on Jan 29, 2008, 18:36:

Donmia--I consider myself an Independent to the Hilt and I wear No Label. When I see one side or person getting pillaried for an inaccuracy, in the sense of fair play, I like to make the comparison, not that I always agree with it. John McCain is personally the last Candidate I would vote for. He was simply Shameful the way He Capitulated after he was Swiftboated by the Bush Campaign on the Rumors about his Daughter. He LOST that Famous Independent streak he was well known and Respected for in the Late 90s--early 2000 era. He, McCain, is now the Master of Capitulation. It was also sad to see him not representing his own State of Arizona concerning illegal Immigration. The Majority of Arizona Voters sent McCain a message they did not want Amnesty for 12 Million Illegals and he goes and Votes exactly opposite against their wishes. For many of us, this Amnesty was a Dealbreaker and another issue where I like what he(romney) did was on Healthcare. Prior to his becoming Governor, many in his State(Mass) were uninsured, now they are mandated to procure Healthcare and the Rates are pretty atttractive. If you are really poor, the State will pay the bill. I am hoping he can do something like Nationally if he is elected. I would call this Healthcare Legislation he passed and signed into law, very progressive,,,Please provide Links to what he (romney)will undo that Johnson&Roosevelt did in the past,,,Good Election Night in Florida for Hillary Fans--she won overwhelmingly like 51% to Obama's 31%. As a Registered Independent, I could not vote for the Prez race but on the other issues I could. We won Yes on Amendment One and also for The Slot's Amendment that allow Vegas Style Slots on the Premises of our Dade County parimutuals like the Dog Tracks. These were two big issues for us. Mitt Romney lost by a few % points to McCain. Stick a Fork In Rudy Guliani--He's done and has dropped out!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

chrispej says on Jan 29, 2008, 20:15:

Damn Albatross, I'm loving your posts......

cali373 says on Jan 29, 2008, 21:13:

People actually still listen to him???

Smile if you are a thinker!

goin_south says on Jan 29, 2008, 22:17:

humhh. goin_back up to the top of this... Isn't it pretty amazing that Bush mentioned Colombia at all? Now, I haven't listened to one of these St/Union messages for about 30 years or more, but... I bet no one ever mentioned Colombia even once before. Right?

I'm glad he mentioned Colombia in a good light. Well... that's what I understand from what was said above, anyway.

y, un mil gracias.

eywed says on Jan 29, 2008, 22:23:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

CatGirl says on Jan 29, 2008, 22:39:

Nite boys...nibble on you tomorrow...puuur

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

eywed says on Jan 30, 2008, 04:14:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

donmia says on Jan 30, 2008, 09:46:

I'll have to chase down a link in which Romney calls mandated healthcare Hillarycare and has sworn not to do it. Forget that he did it himself. You can't get the nomination with mandated healthcare - Rs will crucify him like they did with McCain on immigration. It would be easier to nominate Mary Cheney Secretary of Education.

Romney was pro choice and pro gay in the past (to get elected). then he started looking at the presidency and both ideas got dropped. he's pledged not to raise taxes at all when president (something ronald reagan promised, but then raised them 4 times due to reality). He's generally against social security, but like all of the other positions - only because his party argues for their dismantling. (FDR & Johnson) Not going to address the merits of that one, there are pluses and minuses to that equation.

As far as guys without a political backbone, I am surprised that anyone could dump McCain for that position in favor of Romney. Regardless of their positions, they are total fish out of water (flipping and flopping so much all you can hear is the smacking sound).

I am a little surprised at your take on immigration, though. Maybe I'm putting to much into your stance because you disagree with McCain, but at a site that is about S. American countries I would think a more sympathetic and open border approach would be expected. Nearly everyone here spends at least 30% of the time asking questions about "how do i navigate the visa nightmare of U.S./Colombia?"

Not that it would be a surprise, I'm strong liberal. There is a small part of me that would like to see Hillary as the nominee - but only to see the most rabid of the right burst blood vessels all across our Great Land. To see all those blood-red faces exploding with anger, the mouths frothing with spit - it would be a beautiful thing. Except that it would tear our country even further apart.

I would just like to see reasonable immigration, expansion of the middle class, and a stronger safety net. It brings more people into participation in the system and improves most Americans lives. But if too many struggle to "get by" or scramble for healthcare - then participation in democracy drops. and that leaves only the fringe elements doing battle with each other. (See South America)

aztec says on Jan 30, 2008, 16:21:

donmia, "I am a little surprised at your take on immigration". This is further clarification of the opposition to illegal aliens.


If you are not concerned about the illegal 'immigration' problem,
please just ignore. Otherwise, read on.


The Bank: Can I help you?

Customer: Yes, I want to cancel my account. I don't want to do
business with you any longer.

The Bank: Why?

Customer: You're giving credit to illegal immigrants and I don't think
it's right. I'm taking my business elsewhere.

The Bank: Well, Mr. Customer, we don't want to see you do that, but we
can't stop you. I'll help you close the account. What is your account
number?

Customer: (gives account number)

The Bank: For security purposes and for your protection, can you
please give me the last four digits of your social security number?

Customer: No?

The Bank: Mr. Customer, I need to verify your information, but in
order to help you, I'll need verification of who you are.

Customer: Why should I give you my social security number? The reason
I'm closing my account is that your bank is issuing credit cards to
illegal immigrants who don't have social security numbers.
You are targeting that audience and want their business. Let's say I'm an > illegal immigrant
and you've given me a credit card. I have a question about it and call
for assistance. You wouldn't be asking me for a Social Security
number, would you?

The Bank: No sir, I wouldn't.

Customer: Why not?

The Bank: Because you would have pressed '2' to speak in Spanish. We
don't ask for that information when calling in on the Spanish line.

I provided "snopes" for doubters:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp





I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year. http://...com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid
for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary
and secondary school education for children here illegally and they
cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for educa tion
for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are
caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two > and
a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge addition al crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine > and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report: http://...com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
betwe en $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly
One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The
United States ".
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

CatGirl says on Jan 30, 2008, 16:30:

Eywed: Thanks for the clip. Quite a response when he mentioned Korea. Heads shaking in the background. I hope this all works out for the best. Chavez should increase his dose of Haldol..jaja

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

Robert Jorge says on Jan 30, 2008, 19:46:

Donmia, think about your question: "but at a site that is about S. American countries I would think a more sympathetic and open border approach would be expected." Many of us have gone through the visa process legally, and wait years for our loved ones to be able to travel to the US. Go to the US consulate in Bogota's website, and you can see visa interviews dated with applications submitted in 1993! Then, think about the 12 to 20 million people who cheated and snuck around the system. Besides it not being fair, it also is the reason why it is extremely hard for people to immigrate legitimately.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Monpirri says on Jan 30, 2008, 19:57:

Eywed, thanks for posting the video. I enjoyed listening to the State of the Union message.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Simon says on Jan 31, 2008, 14:07:

"im not in politics because i cant get into it. ive done a lot of not so good things in my life. my record is not clean."


Yeah, like voting for Bush!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

eywed says on Jan 31, 2008, 14:30:

/

Ay Hombe!!!!!

Lcacique says on Feb 2, 2008, 23:51:

One of the primary reasons government officials are hesitant with the FTA with Colombia is because historically the military has had a terrible human rights record. Now, with links slowly coming out between certain members connected to the government and paramiliary organizations, it seems that there are at least some doubts that the government is committed to protecting the rights of the citizenry. It does seem a little odd that they are finally pursuing cases against paramilitary soldiers guilty of executing union leaders (crimes that were virtually ignored for years during and before the Uribe presidency) at the very moment that the FTA talks begin. Does anyone smell fish?

Has the situation in Colombia improved: absolutely. However, given the rules of the FTA it would be controversial at the very least to jump into an agreement.

I applaud the Colombian government for going after the paramilitary soldiers guilty of serious crimes as well as the government officials and military leaders guilty of colluding with them.

eywed: I am not attacking the fact that you support Bush...I am sure you have your reasons; however, when you say that he has not done everything perfect I have to giggle. It takes a lot of effort to think of anything that he has done well in my humble opinion. I expect a lot from a leader considering they are running the country and not a 7-11. We are in one of the most senseless "wars" imaginable and it is doubtful that it will end in a pretty manner, we've alienated ourselves in much of the international community and the economy is tanking.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

eywed says on Feb 3, 2008, 00:06:

.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

CatGirl says on Feb 3, 2008, 10:17:

Lcacique: I like your FTA statement, you put it much better than I did. BTW - kitty smells fish. All US media is propaganda if you ask me. The only way to get a more realistic pic of what's going on? You need to be "in the trenches".

Your comments to Eywed " takes a lot of effort to think of anything that he has done well in my humble opinion. I expect a lot from a leader considering they are running the country and not a 7-11. We are in one of the most senseless "wars" imaginable and it is doubtful that it will end in a pretty manner, we've alienated ourselves in much of the international community and the economy is tanking"

just checking..when you make this statement, are you taking into account that the majority of what a president "does" or "does not" do typically does not come into effect until YEARS after office?

My comment is NOT about Bush BTW, just presidential views in general. It has been a very long time since I have had a decent feeling about ANY candidate.
But I think that when the decision has been made and "the people have spoken" and made their choice so to speak (jajaja - another funny one) if I like it or not - I accept it as best I can.
I dont care for pres. bashing - but sometimes I will push the ignore button jajaja
I am also amazed at how many Americans are under the impression that all these decisions are actually made by the president!

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

Lcacique says on Feb 3, 2008, 13:01:

Just to clarify my position on a few things concerning the President:

I agree, it does generally take some time for the country to feel the effects of certain policy decisions. However, he has been in office for quite some time. Nevertheless, some things are felt right away.

With respect to him being blamed for everything, he should not be. There is plenty of blame to go around. That means his whole cabinet, the republican majority that owned the House and the Senate in his first term, the CIA, and many, many democrats as well. But people may be under the impression that he deserves most of the blame because he calls himself "the decider," lol.

For those that do not approve of leveling criticism at the President, I apologize if my comments offend you. However, I will never apologize for expressing how I feel about an elected official. That, in my opinion, is ridiculous. This is a democracy for crying out loud, not a totalitarian state. How depressing it would be to live in a country where people did not have the right to discuss the shortcomings of their elected officials. God, it sounds like Argentina under Juan Manuel de Rosas.

As for Bush getting re-elected (ignoring the controversy that surrounded the election), I would argue that fear had more to do with that than anything else. The country was hysterical largely because of lies propagated by individuals in the government. I can not find it in my heart to forgive men who knowingly used lies and fear to terrorize their own citizenry into maintaining the staus quo. That is not propaganda. Sadly, it was amusing to watch Cheney/Rumsfeld/ Bush come out and repeat over and over again, after the whole world knew that it was false, that Iraq had nuclear weapons and mobile biological warfare labs, etc. Give them credit, they got a way with it for a long time. And I can not help but feel sorry for those who lost their jobs in protest of these lies. But that is politics...

And let me clarify again, I would level the same criticism (and have with respect to the democrats in office) against a democratic president.

As for standing together as Americans, eywed, I stand by your right to support the President and his men. But it is an extremely dangerous comment to say that we should stand by our government simply because they are our elected officials. Quite frankly, that is not representative of a democracy and comments like that are rather frightening. If the government is committing unjust acts it should be the duty of the country's citizenry to do whatever is necessary to rectify the situation. Voting is great, but it is not full-proof. Two options often do not represent much of a choice. Unfortunately, it is all to common for men in positions of power to act in ways that are not beneficial for the majority. I'd be afraid to live in the country that you desire eywed and I sincerely mean no disrespect in saying so.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

CatGirl says on Feb 3, 2008, 13:09:

Lcacique: Muy Exellente comment. I really like how you put things. Personally - I am and was not ever offended by any of your comments. Infact, thats what America is all about ;) - I respect your comments and take them only as an "intellectual" (vs passionate) debate. I tend to appreciate this more, as passionate debates get too close minded.
Sooo many flavors of ice cream. We can all hang out at Baskin Robins as friends and still order different flavors...at least this is what I believe. Thanks again. Purrrr

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

Lcacique says on Feb 3, 2008, 14:42:

Absolutely Gatita...The beautiful thing about this country is that we are blessed with the opportunity to disagree.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!