Premarital agreement

rjstuff says on Aug 9, 2006, 12:27:

Your best bet is to talk to a lawyer If you and your spouse enter into a pre-nup agreement and you had no legal advice - you could easily be screwed by the fiance/e's lawyer (or their advice.) To cover your rights you need to bring your own lawyer to the table. If both of you love each other and one insists on a pre-nup, you should be able to bring your own counsel to protect your rights. He/she should have no problems with this approach. If he/she does - maybe do away with the nuptials (not just the pre-nup agreement.) Good Luck

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aztec says on Aug 9, 2006, 12:49:

Both parties need separate counsel. Both parties must understand the language written in the contract. The contract cannot surprise the other party. For example you can't ask your woman to sign a prenuptial on the way to the courthouse.

My Colombian wife signed a prenuptial before we were married. Immediately after marriage I destroyed the prenuptial. The mere fact she signed the thing was enough for me. It must have worked because we are in the sixteenth year of a good marriage. Every asset I have now is either in her name or in both our names.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Aug 9, 2006, 22:41:

Aztec is right.....Each person needs their own lawyer represent- ing only one person. You need to advise your attorney of your assets in Colombia in order to protect them as well in the event of a breakup.

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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famsearch says on Aug 9, 2006, 23:26:

call me old fashioned, but if either of you think you need a pre-nup, there could be a bit of a trust issue in the relationship. for my wife and i, this never came up, let alone discussed.
dan

dan

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aztec says on Aug 10, 2006, 09:05:

strobers, she... ...must not have had a lawyer.

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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 10, 2006, 09:34:

So.. to fill in the blanks in strobers' key to a happy divorce: To me what makes the most sense is to be aware of your assets and be in control of them and make sure your wife remains clueless about them.

Because if she had a clue (and a lawyer), that trick wouldn't work so well.

Personally, I'd rather have the pre-nup. It's much more "open and honest" (assuming, of course, that's what you're looking for in a relationship).

I'm not a lawyer but as I understand them, most equitable and enforceable pre-nups state basically, "This is what I'm entering into the marriage with and this is what I expect to leave with." In community property states, anything earned after the marriage is owned equally by both parties. Also you can't sign away things you're leagally entitled to. If you're entitled to receive child support, then that can't be agreed away in a pre-nup.

Of course there are lots of accounting tricks and ways to hide and shelter assets and income so that they never make their way into the divorce negotiations, but, again, if that's the kind of relationship you want, then I'm not here to judge.

IMO, if you're that worried about your assets being taken in divorce, don't get married. There are many other ways to eat your cake and have it, too.

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rjstuff says on Aug 10, 2006, 09:48:

The only asset of value I have is my house everything esle is fairly old and I would rather give away my 7 year old computer than fight over its 'value'. Same goes for the TV, cameras, car, furniture etc.! And if we separate and divide the house in 2 - that is fine with me.
For the most part - when you are beginning this process - you have nothing of significant value (I mean real value not imagined value.) Very few people have millions of dollars of assets and then I wouldn't expect them to be on PBH. JEjeje

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famsearch says on Aug 10, 2006, 12:35:

craz,
when you say " I'm not craz,
when you say " I'm not a lawyer but as I understand them, most equitable and enforceable pre-nups state basically, "This is what I'm entering into the marriage with and this is what I expect to leave with.", it's a warning signal that one expects a marriage to fail.
dan

dan

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famsearch says on Aug 10, 2006, 13:28:

i agree with about 90% of what you said strobs. i've told my wife, that everything i have is hers as well as mine, and she said the same, even though i have the greater amount committed. that's the key word, if you're not ready to commit everything, then you have no need to get married. as for a pre-nup, "This is what I'm entering into the marriage with and this is what I expect to leave with.", there is a very old superstitious saying that goes, naming it calls it. if you're preparing for the end, before the beginning, you're already there...
dan

dan

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Crazy4Cali says on Aug 10, 2006, 18:21:

Preparing for disaster? In a country where the divorce rate is 50% (or more) you'd be stupid (OK, naive, at least) NOT to plan for a divorce. If you had a 50/50 chance of getting hit by a car when you cross the street, wouldn't you take some additional precautions to:

a) improve your odds (look both ways, wait for the light, etc.)
b) have a back-up plan (e.g. a friend waiting to call 911 before you cross) just in case?

Your chances of having a house fire or a car accident are (hopefully) MUCH less than 50% but you probably have both insured in case something bad happens to either one of them.

A pre-nup, is little more than paying a little now to save a lot later. When the love is gone and all that's left to divide up is the money, the simpler and clearer you can make that process, the cheaper and better it will be (i.e. fewer things to spend billable lawyer hours on dividing up). Having been through the marriage/divorce cycle myself. Going in, everyone is all roses. Going out, it's all daggers, no matter how "fair" you think you are being, the other one always feels cheated.

If you have to divide up the assets, it's much better to do that when you're friends and have a chance to agree, then when you're arch enemies and can only agree through binding mediation.

Like rjstuff, however, in my case I simply entered into my current relationship with basically nothing worth fighting over (the poor-man's pre-nup :)

Had we both been somewhat better off, it would have been in both our financial best interests to identify what we were entering the relationship with. While that can come in handy should things end in divorce, by no means does that document, in and of itself, mean that's where the relationship is headed. That's up to the individuals, with or without a piece of paper.

Where the more famous problems with pre-nups occur and where all their bad press is generated from are the financially lop-sided relationships (that were probably doomed from the start regardless of the pre nup). When you have one person much more financially well off than another in a relationship, there are all kinds of opportunities for problems. Again, during the [inevitable, in these cases] divorce, the less well off is going to feel cheated leaving with what the entered with (+ 1/2 of whatever was accumulated during the marriage) and the more well off is going to feel cheated to have to part with a dime.

So, it's not the prenup that's the bad thing, it's the people who are entering into the agreement.

With a prenup, you'll know if you're marrying a golddigger (oh, honey, do we REALLLYYYY need this?!?!?!) or someone with a more level head. Assuming you're the least bit interested in what's between his/her ears, of course.

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famsearch says on Aug 11, 2006, 01:10:

you know craz, that has to be one of the most cynical things that i have ever read anywhere. cynical, and driven by the instant gratification, me first attitude that has crept into this country. it all stems from people getting married before they even spend any time getting to know each other. people meet, hit it off, a few weeks or months later they move in together, a few months later get married, then 6 months to a year later get divorced, citing irreconcilabe differences, then the blow up over who gets what. basically that is what lead to the popularity of the pre-nup. we have gradually turned into a disposable society, disposable cars, disposable pets, disposable marriages, etc. it used to be that a divorce was a rare event, that it was a very serious step. now, divorce has become so common and easy, that no one bats an eye when it happens, and to make it easier still, the pre-nup. so you don't have to figure out who showed up with what at the beginning. as i have said before, the pre-nup is the foundation of the inevitable divorce. because it will always be in the back of the couple's minds. now, in our case, my wife isn't quite churchmouse poor, but not that well off either, and i'm doing pretty much ok, so that lumps us in your lopsided group, but i have never asked my wife for a pre-nup, and she never asked me for one either, and i would have considered it a severe insult to my wife and i, if someone would have brought it up before the wedding. we're both pretty level headed people, and i think that in spite of your pronounced 50% divorce rate, this is one pre-nup free marriage that is going to last.
dan

dan

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rjstuff says on Aug 11, 2006, 06:55:

I have to laugh reading most of this If you take an inventory of your house; and I did one a few years ago when I decided to eventually move out to Costa Rica (some day): I put everything I have on a spreadsheet; the rough price I paid and the rough market value (considering the years of usage etc.) I think it has. All of my household goods together were less than $15,000 when bought, and in my opinion they are probably not worth more than $2500 now (for example the computer that I paid $2800 for is worth approximatelyy $0 now!)
Other than my car that still has some value (not part of the household goods list) (may be $5000) nothing that I have is worth paying a lawyer any money. If we were to separate and she wants it all - she can have it! So, knowing this - I would not bother with a pre-nup ever. (I do have cash cds and savings but that's easily protected or devided (I will devide these willingly if the time came.)) Yes, if I was to refurnish another house - it will cost me about $10,000 or so but that is 'sunk' cost and is irrelevant. I do not have property worth millions and if I did, you wouldn't see me on PBH! Most people have lots of 'stuff' but its mostly junk and has little or no value, no matter how much you try to fool yourselves.

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lawyer says on Aug 11, 2006, 18:25:

PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS Well, when you hire a colombian lawyer he must write a document, in which he describes assets in Colombia and USA of both members of the couple.

After that there are some certification needed to get it registered.

I do offer this service in my office. I am a colombian lawyer with experience in civil and family matters.

If you want to make an appointment my email is is colombianlawyers2006 at yahoo.com

I hope to hear from you

Esteban Rada
Colombian Lawyer

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gmadsen says on Aug 13, 2006, 18:32:

Are you in Medellin??
Please Are you in Medellin??
Please contact me at gpmgpm2003 at yahoo.com

GPM

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aztec says on Aug 14, 2006, 08:10:

'Very few people have millions of dollars of assets and then I wouldn't expect them to be on PBH. JEjeje" rjstuff

Suspect you are in error on that statement. There may be one or more "well off" individuals on this site.

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akaflex69 says on Sep 22, 2006, 12:14:

Pre Nup Process OK, so once the lawyer drafts up the PreNup. How do you make it valid? I know you both need to sign it. But do you have to do it anywhere in particular (notaria or even the US EMBASSY).

I going to go to colombia in a few weeks, and I am going to get married. Just wanted to know about doing a prenup. I had a lawyer draw up a prenup for me, and I am going to get it signed before I get married. My question is do I need to do 2 different prenups one for colombia and one for the states? or is one ok for both? Also, can we sign it anywhere within colombia (notary) or does it have to be done at the US Embassy in order to be valid???? Or am I totally missing the whole point? Also does this look bad, when it comes to getting a VISA for my wife??? any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

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famsearch says on Sep 22, 2006, 16:48:

not too sure aka... as far as a pre-nup goes, if you're planning on getting out before you get in, why are you even bothering to get in in the first place?
dan

dan

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annagd3 says on Sep 23, 2006, 08:42:

I am married I put my signature in the prenup, I am agree with farmsearch, I trust him and I hope he will be my husband forever, Goog luck for me I hope.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 26, 2006, 09:17:

Well... RE:if you're planning on getting out before you get in, why are you even bothering to get in in the first place?
Sometimes it's worth the ride :)

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Bluesdude says on Sep 27, 2006, 15:59:

I Got One Written Up - Her Idea My wife had the idea, because I conveyed that I needed to protect what I had built all my life, and that I would share, but I didn't want to run the risk of losing half if things didn't work out. So, we got one that pretty much states that what was ours before would be ours after. Yes, I have read all of the comments that say "well then maybe you shouldn't be getting married." And I say that you are entitled to your judgment. Maybe I'll wind up putting half of the stuff in her name in a few years, but we'll see. Regardless, I have peace of mind that I won't be held hostage and have to put up with stuff I don't like just to protect my assets. Paranoid? Maybe, but so far, so good.

Bluesdude No Mas Gringas Por La Vida

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lpdiver says on Sep 27, 2006, 16:31:

If you are both happy... That is all that matters. Maybe all she wants is the green card. Maybe you are soul mates. Who knows. You pays yo money and yo takes yo chances. As they say in Hollywood...time will tell.

I am past the green card deadline with my paisa and all is still bliss...may the same happen for you.

Good luck,

alp

"cook some rice!"

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