Posting Images of People from Colombia here on PBH - right or wrong?

webmanco says on Jan 22, 2008, 09:34:

Thanks for thinking and asking, I do like to take pictures of persons and whenever I can I ask for permision, at the same time they ask me what is it for, I said it might be up in the internet. I don´t see wrong on it. Althouht I uploaded one picture of some kids here, I decided to cover their eyes (on the picture) for the sake of them.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 22, 2008, 09:40:

tejas!! lindo carajo!! . Esta pregunta sobre las fotos que se pueden o no se pueden publicar acá la deberia responder uno de los mod y no cualquier loco. Seria muy bueno que uno de los moderadores nos diera su opinión. Pero esta foto que tu tenias no es "pornografia infantil" ni nada parecido, tampoco degrada al niño en ningún momento, ni es una intromisión en su intimidad ni tampoco revela su identidad. Creo que te dejaste sugestionar por un antisocial que no sabe nada sobre este asunto.

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

tejasmarcos says on Jan 22, 2008, 09:42:

i saw that webmanco on the volunteer/donation thread. it has to be somewhat relevant when it comes to minors or kids as they are unable to defend themselves or make an adult decision as to allow the use of the photo or not.

however, it is a shame to censor that aspect of colombia as the kids here are a brightspot for this country and that is a wonderful thing to celebrate.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 22, 2008, 09:59:

charlie manson mas respetico con paleo.

tejasmarcos says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:00:

just click the"ignore" button. works like a charm. it is the same guy. he makes some good points, but is completely politically incorrect.

ahhhhhh - el buton de no hacer caso(?) es fantastico! esoooooo.

tratalo paleo - click el foto y poner "ignore"

explotacion venir en otras formas. la pregunta esta - que es explotacion y que no es explotacion?

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

sloopskipper says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:03:

That is a sensitive issue. I love to take people fotos, especially children and interesting old men and women. My absolute favorite is a woman, of maybe 85 years, framed in her doorway in Santo Domingo. But, I did ask her in my poor Spanish, and she agreed. I think it is National Geographic quality.

I had never really given this much thought, except for indigenous people, who had some religious or spiritual objection.

But I remember being scolded by a parent in Viejo San Juan for making a foto of her child. After that, I always asked and offered to e-mail the picture to them, and was rarely refused.

It is maybe some sort of exploitation to post them as you never know whose hands they may fall into, and what might happen to them then.

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:04:

Charlie el estupido es usted. quién es usted?? creó un nombre y una cuenta en este sitio web solo para decir eso???. Porqué no da la cara??. No sería extraño que fuera el mismo loco de ayer o algún otro que tiene que esconder su identidad para decir una verdad. Sus argumentos respecto a este post no tienen sentido.Exactamente el mismo corte del tipo de ayer (muy casual).

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

MitchAlvarez says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:06:

paleo me estas poniendo cachos con tejas jajaj uy no miamor me vas a matar jaja

Strobers says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:08:

Charlie, go back to your cell.

For everyone else, I shoot photography professionally and I know more about copywrite law than most people. There is nothing wrong in posting a photo that you take, on the internet because taking the picture makes it your intellectual property. However, it could be a copywrite infringement if you took someone elses photo and posted it.

Generally speaking, if a photo is not being used commercially it's O.K. to use the photo. However, if it is used to promote something or in a commerical context that is a copywrite infringement.

I rarely ask people's permission when I photograph them because it ruins the moment. However, I will pay them a buck or send them a copy afterward. Most of the times I just shoot stealthly.

I've posted a couple of videos of my work here of my photographs when I've traveled to Colombia. That's O.K. to do. But if someone from the site took the video to promote their web site or online business, without my written permission, that would be a copywrite violation. However, I'm in copywrite violation myself because the soundtrack is copywrited by the person(s) who composed the songs. Because of the quality of my work, I hope that they would appreciate the fact that I use their music as the sound track to the images, but if they didn't I would have to pull the videos.

The law is pretty murky. What it really boils down to is if the person can claim "fair use" but a good lawyer can twist things around to make that mean anything.

I would encourage everyone to read up on copywrite law in the event you are not sure of something.

"Life is too serious to be taken seriously"

tejasmarcos says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:09:

good point sloop. i had some parents react the same way the other day when i tried to get a photo of 2 little girls sitting on a pony. although i have no children of my own, i understand their concern. you never know who the person is or where the photos will end up - especially in this day and age.

what a shame to have to always have to be on the defensive because of the "bad apples".

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

Gator says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:17:

That post by Charlie Manson is written by someone so confused, he doesn't know whether to scratch his watch or wind his ass. Your ineffective imitation of good posting style only serves to illuminate your lack of substance, good taste, and decency.

If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow the kneecap off a flea. You wouldn't know Up from Down if you had three guesses. Anyway, who was talking to you or even taking you under consideration? Oh well, as the late Douglas Adams said: "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."

Reading your post is less interesting than watching paint dry. If wit was spit, your mouth would be drier than a shallow well in an African heat wave. There's nothing wrong with you that couldn't be cured with a little Prozac and a polo mallet. Maybe you wouldn't be such a Jerk-In-The-Box if you didn't eat all those paint chips and lead pencils when you were a kid.

In conclusion, thank you. We were all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. Now get the hell out of here!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

diabloblas says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:18:

i'm for any image except my own

ColombianoGringo says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:21:

"scratch his watch or wind his ass"

Too damn funny!

guacharaca says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:41:

I have first hand knowledge that National Geographic (NG) does not seek permission from everyone to film and photograph their subjects. From a moral perspective, put yourself in NG's shoes when taking and posting the photo, and add the fact that you are not earning a dime on the photo. The general public would like to see good quality photos of people and their culture.

Colombianos: Las armas os han dado independencia, las leyes os daran libertad. (Santander)

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 22, 2008, 10:43:

Mitch Gracias por defenderme!!!! estoy absolutamente impresionada con este señor "charlie manson" que estoy casi segura de que es el mismo "demien". Se expresan exactamente igual. impresionada con su agresividad injustificada. me recuerda a MARILYN MANSON. Para los proximos post debería llamarse "Demien Manson" lo describiria perfecto!! (Demien por "El Exorcista")

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:14:

Damien Manson: Una persona que piensa con inteligencia profundiza mas en argumentos y menos en agresiones. Este no es su caso. Cuál es su problema? porqué le gusta tanto pelear y generar polémica?. Necesidad de atención quizá?. Le aseguro que la vida es mejor en PAZ. INTENTELO. Nada se gana con ser un "muy inteligente desadaptado social"

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:19:

Si ves?? D.M ya te sacaron de acá. Trata de hacerte querer y de integrarte a la sociedad. Puedes descubrir cosas que te gustarán.

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

tejasmarcos says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:20:

"If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow the kneecap off a flea. You wouldn't know Up from Down if you had three guesses" - that is funny!

strobers - good points regarding the commercial aspect of the dilemma. i think you are right on the money.

i could not help pondering this issue over my wonderful lunch of ajiaco soup and fresh salad. i have come to a few conclusions of my own. i like this definition of exploitation;

2. an act that exploits or victimizes someone (treats them unfairly);

this would be more in line with my concern.

as such i think the question of exploitation is mute here on pbh because nobody here is trying to "victimize" anyone by taking their photo. however, i still think there may be an issue of privacy. i myself have no intentions of using the photos in any derogatory fashion. however, i cannot control what another person may do with them after they get their hands on them (copies them off the internet). because i cannot control the actions of less scrupulous others, i have indeed breached that persons right to privacy by the possible misuse of their information by a third party. i have less of a moral dilemma with posting photos of adults than i do posting photos of children. therefore, i am no longer sure that i will be sharing any of these photos (of kids) on the internet due to these ancilliary concerns.

* if there was a way to absolutely prohibit the copying of the images on the internet, i would have much less of a concern.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:24:

(Oh la la.
C'est la vie.That's all the French I know. Sometimes it's just enough.)

I can't answer the question about if it is ok to publish pictures of people without asking their permission. I don't know. People are getting very sensitive about their children's pictures circulating in the internet and perhaps with a reason. I'll try to find out the juridical and moral implications of publishing photographs of people on the net.

I would ask, if I was taking a picture of a person closely enough to be recognizable and planning to have it in aone of the web albums, for example. I wouldn't, probably, if it was just a street scene, with random passers-by, no close-ups.

I noticed during my last visit in Colombia that people there were much less paranoic about publishing their names, pics, contact info than say, for example here.
I'd like to hear other opinions and if possible facts about this issue.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

jorgegdiaz says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:46:

Scroll down to page XIII (...13), there`s a letter model to request persmission of copyrighted material I had to use when submitting my graduate work. Every pic, diagram, citation, schematics, organigram, draft, blueprint etc must have been allowed to be reproduced.

Is this too far ?

http://www.tsgs.unt.edu/graduation_process/2007_ProQuest_dissertation_...

... my 2 cents

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 22, 2008, 11:59:

Yes, that's good info on copyrighted material. Now, casual, tourist snapshots may raise privacy issues instead.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Gator says on Jan 22, 2008, 13:02:

It has been a longggggggggg time since I Shepardized a case and I have forgotten the leading US Supreme Court decision on this question. I a public place with no reasonable expectation of privacy you are generally OK legally.

Legally there is no expectation of privacy in a public place. You can take pictures as you please. You are only limited by your own sense of what is proper, your respect for others, and your need to provide for your own safety. People will generally let you know if they don't want their picture taken. It's best to honor that or risk geting your a** kicked.

Generally speaking, if a photo is used editorially, then no model release is needed. If used commercially, then permission is needed to use the person's photograph for commercial purposes. Usually the photograph or videotape by itself will rarely place a subject in a false light. Rather, the accompanying text, caption, or voice-over could be misleading and portray the person in a false context. However, an accurate depiction of a person in a publication the person finds offensive does not, in itself, state a false light claim.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

tejasmarcos says on Jan 22, 2008, 17:56:

well put.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

goin_south says on Jan 22, 2008, 18:24:

I'm not the one to do it (put other's pic on here) but... I'm guessin, these days, if you don't want your photo on the internet, then.... you probably shouldn't be leaving the house...eh?

y, un mil gracias.

sloopskipper says on Jan 22, 2008, 18:33:

I am not sure that I would want anybody to post fotos of my two adopted sons, even though I think they may be viewable in the local post office.

lpdiver says on Jan 22, 2008, 20:07:

Gator covered the legalities pretty well. Two of my passions are scuba diving and photography. I combine the two to make a bit of money and if the person can be clearly identified I am ALWAYS asked for a release.

I think the root of this discussion has to do more with ethics which; lets face it, vary from place to place and fall under the aegis of good taste. Which, again it subject to interpretation.

t

"cook some rice!"

goin_south says on Jan 22, 2008, 22:34:

hey, tony... I wasn't talkin about personal ethics, but rather... self-protection.

y, un mil gracias.

lpdiver says on Jan 22, 2008, 22:43:

yes we seem to have a multi bifurcated thread. As for wearing the condoms I see the need I just never found a paisa that felt the same way.

Could always get them to agree but then well before you know it...barebacking!!!

Sheesh, I suppose I dodged a few bullets.

t

"cook some rice!"

Monpirri says on Jan 23, 2008, 08:16:

I also agree with Gator, photos of people used for commercial purpose without the consent of the person photographed is wrong or illegal.
It's also wrong to post photographs of girls who have been involved in intimate affairs or in dates with the "photographer". The girl must consent to the exhibition of her pictures on the Internet.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

tomtom33 says on Jan 23, 2008, 12:49:

Gee, Mon, does that have to be in writing and notarized? If they weren't involved in dates, is that okay? How would one know from a photo if there had been a date or not? Exactly what constitutes a date?

Monpirri says on Jan 23, 2008, 12:53:

Now you are getting into legal issues but you understand what do I mean.
Just don't go out posting pictures of your adventures on the net, especially if the mate is portrayed as persona non grata or the story is a fabricated lie.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 23, 2008, 12:55:

I agree, monpirri.
I think it's shameless exploitation and a sign of immaturity and a character flaw to exhibit semi-nude images of unsuspecting girlfriends, dates, whatever, in internet discussion forum avatars by male members over 25 years of age.

(So, there, tomtom...take those barrio girls off your avatar because nobody here believes that you are one of them)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

tejasmarcos says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:03:

LOL

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

tomtom33 says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:07:

I never claimed to have grown up. Character flaws? I have many.

Semi-nude? The photo I have up now was taken in Cartagena about 1 block from the beach. I see no semi-nudity. And I have told no stories except that one is a former novia.

As I have posted previously, when everyone is required to adhere to the same standards, I will voluntarily change the photo.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:10:

(I was just pulling your chain)
But seriously, I wish you guys didn't have those type of pics in your avatars. I don't feel offended or anything like that, it's just so....juvenile.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

slguy says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:13:

wait. does this mean if I use a hot girl's foto in my avatar- you'll think of me as juvenile? I could use a few years trimmed off my aging process....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

tomtom33 says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:15:

Yes, it is juvenile. Thanks for the tug.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:20:

No, not juvenile in a good way. Pimply, nerdy juvenile. You guys don't want that image.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

tomtom33 says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:22:

I am a nerd, and darned proud of it.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:33:

Desperate, clumsy, lonely juvenile....

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

billyb says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:33:

But a pimply one?

tejasmarcos says on Jan 23, 2008, 13:47:

approaching off topic status..........3............2.............1.........

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

gringoloid says on Jan 23, 2008, 16:10:

I would just like to know why I'm not seeing anymore cell phone holder fotos?

goin_south says on Jan 23, 2008, 17:01:

que pasa a "poco"? y su camera en telefono?

y, un mil gracias.

goin_south says on Jan 23, 2008, 17:04:

"... tomtom...take those barrio girls off your avatar because nobody here believes that you are one of them..."

I was thinking/believing tomtom was the one on the right, in the blue top ;-)

y, un mil gracias.

lpdiver says on Jan 23, 2008, 17:13:

gee I have never bother to learn how to make an avatar. Now I feel like I am missing out. Someone help me please!

t

"cook some rice!"

goin_south says on Jan 23, 2008, 19:20:

go to 'account' on 'Ipdiver'. click on 'picture'. then, download. U can do it. I know you gotta be more technically astute than a jalf-wit duck.

y, un mil gracias.