PORQUE ESCRIBIMOS EN INGLES

litost says on Oct 1, 2004, 05:01:

Que pena... Disculpeme que se lo diga, pero que pregunta tan tonta!

Por si no se ha dado cuenta, el objetivo principal de esta pagina es brindar informacion y un espacio de discusion para todas las personas en el MUNDO interesadas en Colobmia. Dado que el ingles es el idioma mas generalizado en el globo, y la mayoria de los turistas y extranjeros que viajan en Colombia como minimo se defienden en ese idioma, es obvio que la mayoria de los mensajes esten en ingles. Pero de todos modos, nada le prohibe a uno escribir en español, frances, aleman, etc. si uno quiere, a ver quien le responde.

Otra cosa, no es cierto que la mayoria aca somos colombianos, de donde saca eso???

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ColombianoX says on Oct 1, 2004, 07:44:

Aquí no se nos ha olvidado el castellano. Esta página fue diseñada para los extranjeros que están interesados en Colombia, y su creador decidió hacerla en inglés. Para los que somos bilingues, esta página nos ofrece un medio por el cual podemos compartir nuestro conocimiento sobre el país con los que no son colombianos.

Litost: ¿Y usted dice que yo soy agresivo?

ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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oldbongo says on Oct 1, 2004, 07:51:

thanks for telling him.. senorito....
you splained it perfectly. thank you for your example.
most colombians are a little behind in realizing, and accepting
the reality that english is mandatory in a global
society,..it's too much trouble, in a tough life,to
learn to communicate in greek, swahili.english, or spanish.
in my case,it's hard to learn spanish, but, mandatory.
i for one, like to see the occasional spanish words,verbs, nouns,
adjectives,thrown in willy-nilly into english sentences,and for
spanish posts,for our novice colombian friends,..the reverse.

muchas grassy ass

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 1, 2004, 09:21:

Spanish-language forums If you'd rather write in Spanish why don't you take a look at the Spanish-language boards like Guayabo, for example? We're a friendly bunch of Colombians and "almost" Colombians who write there, most of us are living in USA and Europe, a few from Colombia too. Or Cumbia? There are others, too, but Guayabo is very active.
Cheers,
Desi
http://ocean.st.usm.edu/~nanzola/colombia.html
Nestor Raul has a number of Colombian boards listed in the site.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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MJ says on Oct 2, 2004, 01:13:

GRACIAS DESI VOY A MIRAR LA PAGINA.Y PARA LITOST.PARTE DE AYUDAR AL EXTRANGERO ES INTERESANDOLO MAS EN EL LENGUAJE QUE ES PARTE DE NUESTRA CULTURA,LA MAYORIA QUE ESCRIBEN ACA DESEAN IR A COLOMBIA Y CONOCER LA CULTURA,DE PRONTO CONQUISTAR UNA CHICA Y QUE BUENO QUE LO HICIERAN EN ESPANOL ASI UNO SABE LO INTERESADO QUE ESTAN EN NUESTRO PAIS Y CULTURA.MIRA QUE OLD GRINGO ENTENDIO LO QUE YO ESCRIBI Y EL DICE QUE ES TOO MUCH TROUBLE, NO, ES !LAZINESS! EN CIERTOS PUEBLOS DE FRANCIA NO TE HABLAN EN INGLES Y CUANDO YO VOY A FRANCIA HAGO EL ESFUERZO DE LEER Y APRENDER EL IDIOMA,Y LOS FRANCESES ME AYUDAN PORQUE SABEN QUE ESTOY HACIENDO INTERESADA EN APRENDER DE ELLOS.SI EN ALGUOS CASOS SI ACA ALGUNOS CIUDADANOS ESTRANGEROS PREFIEREN QUE LES HABLEN EN INGLES OK.OLD GRINGO DICE QUE EL INGLES ES MANDATORIO EN UNA SOCIEDAD GLOBAL.PERO MIRA QUE SI ELLOS NO SE DAN CUENTA EL ESPANOL NO ESTA MUY LEJOS DE ALCANZARLOS,CUANDO FUI A ORLANDO LA MAYORIA DE LOS LUGARES QUE FUI ERAN LATINOS LO QUE ATENDIAN INCLUSIVE MI HIJO ME DIJO QUE PARECIERA QUE ESTUVIERA EN COLOMBIA Y NO EN U.S.A INCLUSIVE EN EL AREOPUERTO.MI HERMANA VIVE EN ORLANDO Y ELLA DICE QUE ELLA NO NECESITA EL INGLES. O TAL VES HABLEMOS SPANGLISH "OPEN THE WINDOW PARA QUE LA MOSCA FLY"SORRY IS YO OFENDI A ALGUIEN.

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oldbongo says on Oct 2, 2004, 08:27:

small correction... the trouble(laziness) i refered to was meant
to describe colombians who don't want to learn.
me, i want to learn, and am doing so, but it is a
difficult task.there is no difference in france,
those that wish to communicate freely in this world, anywhere,
learn english. its true that in florida,many latinos
live exclusively in spanish,but at the same time they
are preserving their language culture, they are alienating the
locals who come to dislike them for their arrogant refusal
to participate in american culture, which is english speaking.

no quierre ofendir...

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ColombianoX says on Oct 2, 2004, 09:16:

"its true that in florida,many latinos
live exclusively in spanish,but at the same time they
are preserving their language culture, they are alienating the
locals who come to dislike them for their arrogant refusal
to participate in american culture, which is english speaking."

oldgringo,

If we latinos who live in florida refuse to participate in (anglo)american culture, why should that bother anyone? Do we complain about anglos refusing to participate in latino culture? What law makes such participation mandatory? And those latinos that according to you "alienate" others ARE the "locals"! Let me also remind you that spanish was spoken in Florida, (and US soil for that matter) long before english. Que tenga un felíz día.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Hispanidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 2, 2004, 09:48:

Spanish in Florida The first child born of European parents in the continental North America was born in San Agustine, Florida. He spoke Spanish. Spanish language has long history and deep roots in Florida.
I love the language of Shakespeare as well, but I don't consider it arrogance to continue speaking your own language with people that speak it, where ever in the world you are.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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oldbongo says on Oct 2, 2004, 11:50:

of course.. you are perfectly correcto desi...

however, i take out the word "arrogant" and i stand by my comment.

senorito colombianoX,..the reason that it bothers some, is that
for example, when an american from florida, or any other state,
passes through the miami airport, or many gas stations, stores,
newsstands,etc. and finds someone incapable of communicating,
they are alienated.they have a good grounds to complain.
you don't have to complain about gringos not participating in
latino cultura, because you won't find any who stay any length
of time without picking up some niceities in spanish, as a minimum.
they don't refuse generally,they just need some time to go from
square-dancing to champeta....which brings me to the law that requires participation. the law of common sense and history.
people and tribes have emigrated and immigrated forever.
many native tongues were spoken in the americas before the english
and spaniard dominated.many are still spoken,but the people have
adopted the the english or spanish tongue as a necessary fact of evolution.my people have practised dispersion for 5765 years,
have always maintained ancient language, culture,traditions,at the same time as assimilating into many other cultures.the two go together to make up the world mosaic.isolationism doesn't work in the long run, so forward looking people want their kids to be able to
do well in their environment,and adapt......you did

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adela says on Oct 2, 2004, 14:22:

a propósito... MJ, a propósito de tu tema sobre comunicarnos con español aquí, lo cual ya Litost te respondió típicamente rudo, quisiera contarte que hace años visité esta web y había espacio para los no hispanohablantes(¿o hispanoescribientes?)y para los bilingües. Realmente Litost te contestó correctamente en cuanto a lo que es ahora poorbuthappy/colombia : gringos hablando entre ellos de todos los temas.A veces les colaboro buscando cosas para ellos porque cada vez, menos colombianos entran y les contestan sus preguntan. Me gustaría que hubiese un poco de eso que se perdió en cuanto a los posters en español de vez en cuando. ¿Por qué no? Siempre detesté esa característica que Oldgringo refiere en su post. Que los gringos no tienen que hacer el esfuercito de hablar el idioma del país al que van, aunque les encante, porque, de acuerdo, el inglés es idioma universal, pero no único.

Te cuento un anécdota entre muchas que tengo: una familia norteamericana pasó dos meses en Korea. Al regesar, les pregunté qué palabras sabían de ese idioma y se encogieron de hombros, en señal chistosa y dijeron que no tuvieron tiempo, que era muy difícil el idioma.
Qué tal los gringos!



Ahora, MJ, en este foro también encuentras unos gringos lindos que sí se interesan por lo nuestro, hasta por aprender nuestro idioma.

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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oldbongo says on Oct 2, 2004, 15:09:

holy cow!!! what i say wrong?

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caslug says on Oct 2, 2004, 15:42:

English and Spanish While I would agree that in America, for gov't and business, English should be the primary Langauge. Of course, Gov't office today in America generally are able to communicate in several Langauge, but English is still primary. In the past decade America is starting to embrace it's cultural diversity and it's becoming one of it's Business strenght. An American company that wants to do business in any foreign country today, knows that it can find qualify US workers that will speak that's langauge(spanish, chinese, korean, russian, etc.,). Why? because America is the land of immigrants, and those immigrants and their sons&daughter generally will speak both English&that langauge. Which in turn gives US business tremendous competitive advangtage & flexiblity. Of course, some European countries have long history of their citizen being able to speak multiple langauges(usually european langauges).

This board is an English board, everyone is welcome to participate in discussions. You can post in Spanish, but I would say you won't get as many reponse versus if you post in English. It's funny, I wish we get more colombian LIVING in colombia posting. It seems that most of the posters than post alot are colombians living abroad(elmo, litost, colx, desi, etc.,) obviously because their english is excellent. However, I would like to hear opinions and views from locals. But I do recognize that most local do not speak English.

BTW, as a business langauge(today) English is number one. However, in the near/distnant future I think that Americans business will need to start recognizing Chinese(madarin) and Spanish as growing in importance. Which is one the reasons why I'm trying to learn spanish.

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oldbongo says on Oct 2, 2004, 15:53:

try this..... http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/22407/format/html/displaystory.html

and read the last lines.

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litost says on Oct 2, 2004, 18:10:

MJ, first of all excuse my rudeness, I just honestly found it to be a dumb question because the answer was so obvious. You seemed to be "reclamandonos" because we don't speak spanish here, and I found that a little ridiculous. Now I think you are just young and a little naive, but that's not your fault, so I'm sorry.

I think most "gringos" on this site make a good effort to learn spanish, but we can't expect them all to be able to fluently communicate in the language. But like I said, NOTHING forbids anyone to post or respond in spanish. It just doesn't make much sense to me to make this a site for colombians talking about Colombia among ourselves.

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gringa-colombiana says on Oct 2, 2004, 20:33:

Litost fan! Litost is being targeted as rude, but I believe this forum fails to acknowledge the arrogant manner in which MJ post her questions and comments.

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adela says on Oct 2, 2004, 23:48:

oldgringo

como decimos por acá: "fresco, fresco, Oldgringo". Por cierto, oldgringo ¿ese nick tuyo es por la película?"

As we say here:"cool, cool, oldgringo" By the way, Oldgringo ¿"where did you take your nick, Is this 'cause the movie?"

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 3, 2004, 02:40:

English/Spanish I have to agree in general terms, anyway, with litost about the usage of English on this board. This is an English-language forum, but as far as I know, Peter, the owner and creator of the site, has not set any written-in-stone rules about the language. I've written a post or two in Spanish and got irritated and nasty answers about "trying to hide something".
MJ's initial post about why people here don't write Spanish if (obviously) it was our first language was a misconceived impression that most people writing here were Colombians in exile. That's why I suggested her(him) a Spanish language forum for exile Colombians. Since we don't have access to members area it's impossible to find out how many members there are and what's the percentage of native Spanish-speakers here, but the main objective of the board is "Colombia guide" for foreigners, and thus the usage of the English language here would be an acceptable norm.
I think that if MJ would be so kind as not use ALL CAPS in her/his posts, the messages would not sound so agressive.
Cheers,
Desi
BTW caslug, I'm not Colombian, but thanks anyway:)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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pointofview says on Oct 3, 2004, 04:36:

Caslug - Excellent Post Quote:

"While I would agree that in America, for gov't and business, English should be the primary Langauge. Of course, Gov't office today in America generally are able to communicate in several Langauge, but English is still primary. In the past decade America is starting to embrace it's cultural diversity and it's becoming one of it's Business strenght. An American company that wants to do business in any foreign country today, knows that it can find qualify US workers that will speak that's langauge(spanish, chinese, korean, russian, etc.,). Why? because America is the land of immigrants, and those immigrants and their sons&daughter generally will speak both English&that langauge. Which in turn gives US business tremendous competitive advangtage & flexiblity. Of course, some European countries have long history of their citizen being able to speak multiple langauges(usually european langauges).

This board is an English board, everyone is welcome to participate in discussions. You can post in Spanish, but I would say you won't get as many reponse versus if you post in English. It's funny, I wish we get more colombian LIVING in colombia posting. It seems that most of the posters than post alot are colombians living abroad(elmo, litost, colx, desi, etc.,) obviously because their english is excellent. However, I would like to hear opinions and views from locals. But I do recognize that most local do not speak English.

BTW, as a business langauge(today) English is number one. However, in the near/distnant future I think that Americans business will need to start recognizing Chinese(madarin) and Spanish as growing in importance. Which is one the reasons why I'm trying to learn spanish."

To Caslug:

Your comments are well stated and founded in fact. Each day more and more USA industry, businesses and "CAPITAL" are moving offshore primarily to China with it huge supply of low cost productive labor and to other manufacturing bases elsewhere in Asia, Latin America, India and all over the world.

Americans in an effort to compete (in the world) will have to learn the languages and culture of their trading partners, suppliers and customers. Many USA world class companies already excell in this effort but the average citizen is living in the past which doesn't work anymore.

Last week while visiting a long time friend in Panama City we drove to his (8 year old) daughters school to pick her up from a special function. During the drive he explained that the school was a trilingual school that teaches three languages (spanish, english and chinese). I have known this little girl since she was born and every trip I witnessed her progress speaking english (to the very fluent state she speaks now) but I did not realize she was learning Chinese. She began talking to me in Chinese and translated back to english.

China has adopted the best of manufacuring technology from the USA, JAPAN and EUROPE. China is well along to eating our lunch in all aspects of technology, manufacturing and marketing. With a labor force so large that it will supply almost unlimited low cost labor for decades, China will be in the future what the USA was in the past.

We all better go to a trilingual school and learn spanish, english and chinese. Your childrens or grandchildrens jobs may be dependent upon their ability to speak Chinese or Spanish over time as these foreign economies continue to grow.

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oldbongo says on Oct 3, 2004, 10:17:

in mandarin..or cantonese... the oldgringo says doje..and sheshe...
thank you in each language..

to adela, thank YOU for the type of spanish lesson that
oldgringos find most helpful..... K.I.S.S.

never go to movies, last one was JAWS.
did i miss something?

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litost says on Oct 3, 2004, 10:59:

I personally think that it's not realistic to expect people in large numbers to become even minimally fluent in chinese, despite the clear fact that its importance in the global scene is rapidly growing. And I say this as someone who is international relations graduate, loves languages, multilateralism, etc. It's not like you can approach chinese like you can the european languages, which mostly all use the same alphabet and share a good deal of recognizable terminology. Even languages that use other alphabets, such as russian and arab, at least are based on a letter-by-letter system (not a linguist, don't know the technical terms) not like the chinese pictogram system which is composed of tens of thousands of these complex characters. It takes a foreign person half a life of dedication to grasp the chinese language, so unless some kind of drastic simplification takes place, it's not likely or practical to start making chinese some kind of mandatory second or third language.

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vladimiro says on Oct 3, 2004, 11:52:

Where's a site for Colombians residing in the USA? I think poorbuthappy.com would be much better if orientated towards Colombians living outside Colombia rather than for foriegners that travel to Colombia. It would be far more informative and entertaining for us non-Colombians to read articles and views of Colombians. But where are all the Colombians en el extranjero?

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 3, 2004, 12:05:

there are several sites the most popular would be lista_guayabo at yahoogroups.com
cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Oct 3, 2004, 13:49:

US & Langauges Litost, luckily to understand Chinese just like Japanese, both are KANJI based, a person only needs to a fraction(1000 word or so) of the total words. I have several non-japanese friend that took 4 yrs of japanese(college) then work in Japan for a year or two, and became quite fluent. It doesn't take half-a-lifetime, it takes constant practice, though to become profient and fluent. But most of us, especially post college, don't have the luxury of living in a foreign land for a year or two to learn a langauge. That's the biggest obstacle to learning Chinese or any langauge, not because of anything else.

Plus what I was infering is that US has a competitive advantage US companies can draw upon a large pool of workers that know whatever langauge AND culture a company needs. Because of diversity in the US, which is being view more and more as a strenght.
POV, thanks for the feedback, children(under 12) have an infinite capacity to learn langauges, so it doesn't suprise me one bit your friend's daughter is able to pickup chinese. All major US college has a chinese program(high school is a different story), so any student wanting to learn chinese will find it very easily available.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 3, 2004, 18:49:

MJ, podemos escribir en espanol MJ, podemos escribir en español pero muchas personas aquí no hablan español. As Desi says there are other boards where the language is Spanish. Por supuesto, está libre escribir en cualquier idioma que quiere.

Actually I think Oldgringo is right, Colombians are much too attached to Spanish. They are almost like Americans in reverse - they expect everyone to speak THEIR language. I think this attitude hinders economic development. India's prowess in high technology is largely due to the widespread use of English in that country. Costa Rica is making a major push for the population to learn English. I am certainly not an English only person - I find it a little depressing when I see so many children one of whose parents speak Spanish grown up without a word of Spanish and losing a part of their heritage. I am hoping that the Hispanization of the US may help us economically to compete against single language cultures.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Oct 5, 2004, 10:44:

India speaks English because it is the official language of the government, it is the only language that is understood in every corner of that country, thanks to the British when they ruled. So they do not have to make an effort on it, they simply learn it in school together with their local language.

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AmyEnMontreal says on Oct 5, 2004, 16:31:

English is the language that has been accepted worldwide as the main commerce language. It is simpler to have a site like this, for foreigners wanting to learn about colombia and mainly colombians living abroad, to be in English. Spanish is popular to learn in the US, but in other places Spanish isn't popular at all. I have learned from my penpals that in Germany, Italy, Holland, and Russia most people take English as their second language, while Spanish is sometime, as my Italian penpal put it "seen as the 5th most important". With so many people willingly learning English it would be more convienient to hold a forum, made specifically for foreigners asking locals and nationals living abroad questions and comments about Colombia, in English! It's not just a bunch of Colombians dicussing Colombia, it it were then it would seem strange to have it in English. But, if this site where mainly in Spanish it would defeat the purpose of why it was made. Why ignore the language that nearly everyone can understand or has even basic knowledge of. Sure, you write about getting foreigners familiar with Spanish, it being the language of Colombia and all, but I bet you would ignore a French Language forum on Quebec, because you probably don't speak French... and if not that, a native language forum of any country whose language you don't know.

As for Americans not wanting to learn, you probably have never met Quebequian separatists. They live in a country where English is the main language, but they refuse to speak it anyway. Most people who bad mouth the US have never been there and base their anti-American prejudice on stereotypes, you can't judge a place you've never been to.

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adela says on Oct 5, 2004, 16:35:

Oldgringo

Oldgringo, sabes? Yo solía dar informales clases de español en USA. Las primeras veces que visité el site (tal vez con otro nick)encontré mucho desorden y lenguaje obsceno, pero al tiempo había más relación entre gringos y colombianos, creo que se debía a que algunos gringos deseaban practicar español.

En mi caso, visito este sitio porque quiero practicar mi terible inglés y encontrar una manera de mejorarlo(my lectura es buena, pero no sucede lo mismo con mi escritura y habla en inglés)También gusta leer lo que escriben entre ustedes sobre nuestra manera de ser

Traslation (not the best)

Oldgringo, you know? I use to teach English informaly while living the States.

On my first visits to this site(may by using another nick)I found disorder and rude lenguage, but at same time there were more interaction between gringos and colombians, I think because some gringos wanted to practice Spanish.

In my case, I visit this site because I want to practice my terrible english and finding a way to improve it(my readind is good, not my spoken and writen English). I also like to read what you(gringos) talk about our way ob being (colombians).

:-)

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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oldbongo says on Oct 5, 2004, 18:41:

looks like... we have answered this question to concensus.

amy, thank you for the perfect example of the attitute
that i witness in colombia, mentioned, and took heat for.
it's true,...those quebecois are much worse,... no excuses.

y adela; muchas grassy ass otra ves por su ayuda.
ojala, mas gente ser tiene patiencia y respeto como tu.
sorry, mi espanol no es comprehensible.

porfa continue escribar in dos lenguas...chow mein

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 5, 2004, 19:01:

Even if you adopt the view that the Quebecois live in Canada, French is one of the offical languages of Canada. The Quebecois are perfectly within their rights to never speak a word of English. May not make sense economically but they feel that their unilingual point of view is necessary to preserve their culture. Personally I think the more languages the better.

Regarding India, they have 15 offical languages of which English is one. Many times the only common language two Indians share is English.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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AmyEnMontreal says on Oct 6, 2004, 05:54:

utopiacowboy:

Of course they're within their right to only speak French if they want to, but they should still progress to learn English. I grew up here, and I know French is a great language; it's the primary language I communicate in! I didn't mean that they (the separatists) don't have a right to speak only French, if they want to, it is their choice and it is their native tongue!

What I meant was that it is often regarded that all English speakers, not only Americans, are lazy to learn other languages because of English world dominance. I know this not only from living in Quebec, but from penpals around the world. It seems to be something that is always discussed with me when I write to a new penpal. The thing is that these are just common stereotypes! I used the Quebequian Separatists example as a way to show people that it's not just English Natives, but that every culture and language has a group that refuses to change their ways, and some... like the Quebequian Separatists, whom go to such extremes as to ignore the co-official language, and the majority spoken language, of the country in which they live!

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emero says on Oct 6, 2004, 06:46:

i would never have looked at this site if it had been in Spanish, i doubt i would have much of a relationship with my colombian boyfriend if he hadn't been over here (england ) learning to speak english

Now we both can communicate with each other really well, my spanish is improving now, learning my first 6 verbs

in britain there isn't a big push to learn languages, as lots of people are just too lazy, it is too easy for them i love languages, my german is quite good,in other european countries (can't say outside europe) learning languages is very important especially english. nearly all my german friends can speak fluent english,(their schools were much more focused on it) i'm no where near fluent in german, as i had to learn it myself first.

this place and the people I've met, Hi Shaz, Libardo!!! have helped broaden my views of colombian people and helped me tremendously from a cultural stand point,to also simply having a recipe for arepas.

I'I'm getting a lot of encouragement and help

I'm really enjoying learning spanish and i hope one day to be fluent...one day

I can read small parts of the spanish posts,i replied to this partly as the title had one of the new verbs i'd just learnt escribir :)


hugs Diane x

hugs Diane x

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 6, 2004, 16:36:

Thanks for the clarification, AmyEnMontreal. I agree with your comments.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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