Planning on budget-retirement in Bogota

aztec says on Dec 6, 2006, 13:44:

You are right strobers... ...it depends on what one considers comfortable. For me in Colombia the $2000 would be too low. Why move to Colombia and live a life style below what you have in the States. Subsistence living would be no fun in Colombia.

I subscribe to the theory that if you are an unhappy person in the States you are likely to also remain unhappy living in Colombia. Examine your motives for moving to Colombia.

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andresumana says on Dec 6, 2006, 14:20:

If he is planning living here is becuase he already have been searching, if he is a retired person for sure his pension will do more here than there.
ill try to give you some budget of estrato 4

A new aprtment can be arround $160.000.000.oo COP 120mt2 aprox
A 2 hand apartment can be arround $ 70.000.000.oo COP 120mt2 aprox

Public services

energy $ 140.000.oo COP month
Water $ 250.000.oo COP 2 month
gas $ 20.000.oo month
Phone TV and internet cable $ 154.000.oo for 512kbs and basic cable tv no premium packs
Administracion apartamento (dot know the therm in english) depend of the numer of the apartments that share the cuote but i think it can be around $ 120.000.oo to $250.000.oo
Food in exito or carrefour for 4 can be around $ 500.000.oo
A fast food meal around $7.000.oo to $ 15.000.oo per person
A restaurant meal (not fancy) $12.000.oo to $20.000.oo per person
A nice restaurant meal $ 20.000.oo to $ 60.000.oo per person
A basic car (new) 1.400cc 90-100bhp around $ 30.000.000.oo - $37.000.000.oo 40-60 Kms per galon
A used car 1400cc $ 15.000.oo to $26.000.000.oo
Gas $5.665,22 pesos per galon (3,78 litres).
Public Praking slot between $ 800.oo to $ 2500.oo depending on the zone you are is usuall to find max $ 8000 per day in the expensive park lots

If you have some more question just ask

those prices are for Bogota
i hope it can be usefull

Andres

http://www.colombia4you.com

http://www.colombia4you.com

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arthur brode says on Dec 7, 2006, 00:52:

I have a U.S.$700/month income(Cali) and iam banking money.Do the math....Rent 1br apt.(estrato 3)250,000 pesos per month(all utilities included)internet 500kbs 145,000 pesos per month,phone 80,000 pesos per month(unlimited local calls)medical insurance 65,000 pesos per month(full coverage government plan).Taxis and food are dirt cheap.A filet miñon steak dinner only cost 16,000 pesos at Leños y Carbon Resturant.I have seafood dinners delivered to my apartment almost everyday for 20,000 pesos each.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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miamimike says on Dec 7, 2006, 04:44:

Rubito, It amazes me aslo these High Cost Of Living Rates Thats more then it cost me, as a Single, here in Miami!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BTW, I own my own Condo free and clear and pay NO property taxes due to the Homestead Exemption and 3% property tax cap. My Ladyfriend and her Brother just bought a New BR Townhouse in North Bogota for $35K,,,,I know she certainly doesn't spend that much(price ranges above) for herself and her daughter monthly.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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aztec says on Dec 7, 2006, 06:54:

How about... ...something like this?

http://www.metrocuadrado.com/servlet/co.com.pragma.m2.servlet.demanda.MostrarInmueble?idInmueble=125633

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michaelz says on Dec 7, 2006, 07:19:

why bogota Strobers made an interesting point. "Bogota is the most expensive city in Colombia except for Cartegena". Bogota also has the worst weather of anyplace I have seen in Colombia (cool and rainy most of the time).

Why pick the most expensive, stressful, drearist city in Colombia, when there are so many prettier, warmer, and friendlier places choose from?

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Mononoke28 says on Dec 7, 2006, 07:52:

My family... ... (about 3 people) owns their own place in Medellín and with about $400-$500/US they get by really well. All of that goes to health insurance, utilities, food, transportation and extra costs. If you are the kind of people who love to go out to eat every day and go shopping every weekend, then that will not be enough. But like you said, you just want to get by and with about $500 a month you can do it very comfortably (provided that you own your own place of course).

Diana

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litost says on Dec 7, 2006, 08:53:

michaelz, your description of Bogota is highly subjective and easily debated. Unless you enjoy sweating like a pig all day, it probably has the best weather (spring or fall like) in the country out of the big cities after Medellin (which for me gets a little too on the warm side). It has the best restaurants, bars, discos, shopping, schools, universities, museums, theatres, concerts, libraries in the country. It's the only place you'll meet people from everywhere in Colombia and to some extent from the world. It is probably the safest of the big cities. It has the best connections for travelling anywhere else in Colombia, not to mention for international travel. It has the very unique Candelaria neighborhood. The most open-minded and forward thinking people.

I know the city also has some weak points (traffic and stress level mainly), but I think that there is an abundance of reasons why someone would like to live in Bogota.

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Chicachibcha says on Dec 7, 2006, 09:07:

Even on rice an beans Wow!!! thanks for all your info, I wasn't expecting such a quick reply!! Really appreciate your comments, and gave me a good idea of the whole espectrum, from rice and beans to high-end seafood every day :)

I was born in Colombia, so legal residence is not an issue, my husband is american, we are done with kids, and we are late starters when it comes to planning for retirement. Whenever we look toward the future(and although we love this country), we know that staying here will mean work for the rest of our life trying to pay off a mortgage, and our pension won't be enough. After couple of years of seriously considering it, we decided that for us the best option will be retiring in Colombia, I've been in Bogota recently and found it so much better than what it used to be 15 yrs ago, my husband has never been there. We are planning to go this coming year, and if he gets a good feeling ( I know he will love it), we will move forward with the plan.

Definitely we will buy a place, so no rent or mortgage payment, we hope to find something small, 2nd hand, in a decent neighborhood around 70 millones, that has been budgeted for, once we buy, we want to go as soon as possible, the problem is that we would be taking off years before our pension age ... so the first 5 or 6 years will be money tight, we have to stretch our savings, but once we start receiving our pension, we know we will be fine, we estimate our pension will be around 2000 a month, and with that we know we can have a confortable living or at least we will be better off there than here in the States where we don't even have a hope for owning a place...and then we can travel and all that stuff... so 5 or 6 years is doable, even with he worst case scenario of rice and beans, knowing that later our income will be higher and steady. We just don't want to work anymore!!!

So that is the story.

I have more questions for you: I check out the metrocuadrado website and the el tiempo clasificados almost daily and always see good deals, but I don't know how the process of buying the place will go; we will buy cash, so no mortgage or loan processing; how is the transaction legally secured? how do you guarantee that after the money is transferred, the seller will not run away with it!!do we need to hire an attorney for that? How does the inmobiliaria business work? will they charge us monthly for looking for places or for giving us the listings? I have a friend that I trust to give the power of attorney, but at the same time I am embarrassed to ask her to go all over the place to notary, whatever offices, to stand on lines, look at places, etc, she works, she has a family and those things are time consumming... if we do it through the inmobiliaria, do they do everything for us? can any of you recommend me a couple of reputable ones, I see many names on the internet, but how do you know who to trust...

Thanks a lot guys, I'll keep you posted, and you will all be invited to an "asado" and lots of aguardiente,when we get there.

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andresumana says on Dec 7, 2006, 09:32:

Maybe my bills are too high i have my office in my apartment so 3 or 4 computers plus a notebook are always ON and i really like long hot wather showers. but those prices are what i have to pay. i think she is planning a retirement so i think she is thinking into bring her family, i didnt talk about rentals because i dont know the prices.
and of course there is the marvelous "ejecutivo" that only cost $3500.oo but that is mostly for people who work or is to lazy for cooking and they have no intention into spend to much money in the lounch (like me some times). the prices that i put for fast food are like big restaurants chains cuz you can find a hotdog or an hamburger in the streets between $2500.oo to $5000.oo

"On another note, you eat seafood dinners every day and they're delivered?"
one of good think about bogota are the "domicilios" you can ask whatever you want by phone and its delivered 5 minutes later most of the time no charge just a tip that usaly is like $400 or $500, all the barrios haves their own shop called "cigarreria" you can buy there from vegetables, food packs, drinks, bread, cigars to Writeble CD and things the kids need to make their homeworks done thats funny but is true. they manage to have all the things that you need most there is also a "drogueria" drugstore that delivers anythig you need too, also the bread store delivers to you. i think thats nice my sister lives in Italy and she always say that it will be great to have all those services there.


http://www.colombia4you.com

http://www.colombia4you.com

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aztec says on Dec 7, 2006, 09:37:

Agree with litost! Bogota is the best.

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andresumana says on Dec 7, 2006, 09:49:

I think for you is better to hire a lawyer for all the legal stuff you need, because you are away and is dificult to trust in companys and more the ones that are on the net. i dont know the good ones but i will make a search and ask your questions. thats a matter that is important for my website too.
i hope you can make it and that your husband feel nice here

the granparents of my doughter made the same, the live very nice with their belgian pension, they can afford traveling a lot and luxuries like golf club.

the aguardiente and asado sounds great!

cheers,

Andres

http://www.colombia4you.com

http://www.colombia4you.com

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arthur brode says on Dec 7, 2006, 15:41:

since living here i have become spoiled.everything is delivered to me and i mean EVERYTHING.and when i need to pay a bill the messenger comes to my apartment to pick up the cash and pays the bill for me....talk about being lazy.strobers,yes,i live alone.you are invited for fish,shrimp,cazuela de mariscos,sancocho de pescado.i have never "sweated like a pig"in Cali(except for when iam eating sancocho de pescado).the sector where i live is always fresh during the day and more so during the evenings, because the elevation is a little higher than most of Cali.Bogota is a too cool and drizzlely for me.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 7, 2006, 16:14:

I read some of the threads here regarding security in Colombia, and my question is this, wont i be killed/mugged/robbed/beaten senseless/raped/punked/assassinated/bitchslapped or forced to watch I Love Lucy reruns if i visit Colombia???

\ at at //


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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arthur brode says on Dec 7, 2006, 16:24:

we will let DG or G5 answer that one.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 7, 2006, 17:20:

Arthur I have said it no less than a 100 times. Colombia is the safest place on the planet. Oh... catch you later guys, I forgot to take my meds today.

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Robert Jorge says on Dec 7, 2006, 20:52:

All the price quotes on utility bills motivated me to look at my old bills from living in Villavo. I lived in estrato 4, the apartment was 550.000 COP furnished. I paid 6.260 pesos for gas and trash my last month, 20.110 pesos for water, 46.000 pesos for electric, and 78.000 for phone and banda ancha Telecom. I know Bogota is more expensive, but for about $350 per month, I lived VERY comfortably. Even if Bogota is 50% more expensive, I call that a bargain. $500 per month in Bogota, everything payed for except food and entertainment, is realistic. And I will add I lived with my fiancee, so that was paying for two people. And we used a lot more water than you would in Bogota. The reason, is because we were taking 2 or 3 showers each per day just to cool off. In Bogota, your not going to be sweating and hot. I ate out everyday at small local places, and NEVER paid more than $20 US per day for food, for two people. Normal was actually $12 to $15 US per day. If you want to eat rice, eggs, street empinadas, chorizos, sopa de mondongo, pinchos, etc., you could easily spend less than $8.00 US per day for 2 people on food. A damn bag or net of 15 naranjas cost 2.000 pesos - 75 cents. I am not trying to correct anybody, but just adding my own personal experience, for whatever it is worth.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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miamimike says on Dec 7, 2006, 21:10:

ChicaChibecha-Use a Trusted attorney or Real estate agent as a "Buyer's Agent" I believe in this way the price will be more flexible and open to negotiation. Once the seller finds out your an American in many cases the price is SET in concrete or even run up or a litany of excuses why it can't sell for the original price! Case in point, my Ladyfirend just sold her place(very large house near Unicentro)and the buyer did just this-He was a Spainard who wanted a large house like hers for his machinery import business. He maintained his confidentiality until the moment of signing the final papers so the financial terms couldn't be changed. Worked for him and it will work for you,,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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aztec says on Dec 8, 2006, 09:00:

Once the seller finds out your an American... ...in many cases the price is SET in concrete. miamimike

You are sooo right with this observation. We had it happen to us often before we learned that the gringo must show up at the very last moment of discussion. The amazing thing is how hardened their position becomes after they know there is foreign money involved.

We went so far as to have only my wife meet with the agents and sellers. No mention of a foreign husband. That is the kiss of death!

She would respond to the question of where she lives by picking someplace in Colombia and she needed to move into the city. They are a persistent lot because they will continue attempting to discover your connections.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 8, 2006, 09:30:

And the G5 mantra of common sense starts again Now, I'll ask some people to open up their dreamland minds a bit and hang in there with me.

I'll say this...Here you have country full of people that take joy in being at a minimum, less than honorable, but more likely dishonest, making the people look like a bunch of asses. And you wonder why people have a reason to complain. You guys should just read what comes out of your hands
1 The prices go up
2 The financial charges change
3 A litany of excuses

Does not that say something about a people in general? Does anyone really think that a country that lacks honestly and integrity when it comes to selling real estate to foreigners, will stop being a bunch of jerks once that transaction is over. This is the problem that I have with my people. The fact that they do this so much, and have for the most part institutionalized that kind of behavior, I would never in my life want to deal with this on a day to day basis. You know it does not stop there. You're a fool if you think that it does. (A fool to yourself anyway).

Does any of you guys living in the US see that happening here? Think again. It does not. When a price is listed for a piece of property in the multiple listing service, that price the same be you American, Colombian, or Chinese for that matter. None of this bait and swith crap.

Why do I say this. Because I AM COLOMBIAN. And I know the difference between right an wrong. And while many of you find this "just the price of doing business". I find it disgusting that my people take such joy in conducting their affairs that way.....

So, Colombiche, you hurry your rear end down there, and even though you are Colombian, when they find out that you were living in Toronto, you get ready to get fleeced too. Good Luck.

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vicshere says on Dec 8, 2006, 09:41:

right on G5 is it
here here
or
hear hear
?????
when the mentality of the Colombian people change ......this county will change....
such a rich country and such a a poor mentality....it hurts me to see this everyday...



listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 8, 2006, 10:18:

Rubito...... I don't know what you do for a living, but something tells me that you are not close enough to a substantial number of real estate transactions that would lead me to believe that you are that familiar with how much fraud takes place. I on the other hand, because of my line of work, obviously would be more familiar. Also, while there may be some degree of fraud that takes place, it is not the same as pulling a bait an switch as to the price. If a party would have the nerve enought to do that, I would imagine there is far more fraud involving the purchase of the property that goes above and beyond merely jacking the price. In this country (New York included) a contract is a contract. Nobody would ever try a bait an switch after signing that precious document called a contract. The broker waiting for his/her commission would have the non performing party in court seeking "injunctive relief" in the form of "specific performance" damages, and attorney's fees, that person would jump to live up to his word. They system works without fail.....(in NY too by the way). So please don't tell me about your anecdotal incidents.

Also Rubito, as to this quote:
"As for the jacking up the price thing, there is a real easy way around it. Do comparables, or hire someone COMPETENT to do them for you."

Once again, consistent with what I said in my post above, all you are doing it telling people how to avoid a bunch of people who like to scam other people. What I am saying is that they should NOT be scamming people in the first place. Avoiding the problem, does NOT address the mentality of people and does attempt to admonish them for their bad deeds. Get it now??? Gosh.....same strange mentality here.

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aztec says on Dec 8, 2006, 10:31:

You are right Rubito... ...they charge more to foreigners because they can. Those unwilling to do the work investigating will overpay. Many people see the price and think it's a good deal. As you say they fail to do a comparable.

These people are not stupid nor are they immoral. In the free market in Colombia it is Caveat Emptor.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 8, 2006, 11:06:

Rubito...only one thing Your entire above post probably says it all.

You're out of control. And your comments are out of line. Disagree you may. I even have my PM available for private messages. If you cannot stay civil, get lost. This debate is over. End of story.

Moderation?

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 8, 2006, 11:21:

Aztec.....this has nothing to do with caveat emptor Caveat Emptor is NOT applicable to situations where a written agreement has already been consummated. It ONLY applies in situations where real or personal property is placed on the market with an offer to sell such goods to another before there is an agreement between two parties to sell, buy or undertake some action. Once that offer is accepted, and there is a written agreement acknowledging that acceptance thereby taking the item off the market, the rule of caveat emptor is inapplicable.

If Caveat emptor were to be applied the way you are interpreting it, than the world would never be alble to conduct business. The entire business model in an industrialized society is dependent on people being able to conduct their affairs by relying with a reasonble degree of certainty on the other party to perform. A written contract establishes that degree of certaintly.

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aztec says on Dec 8, 2006, 11:27:

A written contract establishes that degree of certaintly. Agree. We never had anyone attempt to raise a price after it was on a contract. You are correct in that modern commerce would be nearly impossible without enforceable contracts.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2006, 11:57:

Please keep this discussion civil .

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 8, 2006, 16:40:

G5...i believe the raising of price is conducted PRIOR to the signing of the real estate contract, not after.....Gringo Enters the Picture, Price raised to Gringo price, contract signed......

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Dec 8, 2006, 19:57:

Thats not my specialty, but i would have thought there would be some penalties for delaying or stopping the escrow from closing, no? There is a specified time period for closing, i thought. I would definately use a lawyer, but not just any lawyer as there are many unemployed lawyers, dentist, etc in Colombia. The lawyer would have to know that if he F'd me, i would hunt him and his family down like there was no tomorrow.....same if in the US or Colombia....

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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billyb says on Dec 8, 2006, 21:41:

I would have to agree with G5.... caveat emptor implores (requires) buyer to beware before entering into an agreement (contract), once that has been done, American commerce, by law, neccesity and tradition requires it to be enforced. There are always anecdotes where it has not been fully enforced, but in general that's is the rule. Now, Colombia is a whole different animal.

BillyB

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adrimm says on Dec 8, 2006, 22:46:

Elsewhere I'd pick a smaller community. For Colombia, Bogota is expensive.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 9, 2006, 09:02:

You Got it BillyB You are right on the money!!

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