Plan Colombia has been amazingly succesful,

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 30, 2009, 21:09:

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 30, 2009, 21:14:

jimbo67856 says on Sep 30, 2009, 21:31:

Where does Clinton "take credit for everything"? When he says "partnership" and giving "Colombians the power to take back their country" that seems to share credit, doesn't it?

But yeah, it's a lot like the Al Gore reference insofar as neither are actually true; both are willful distortions.

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. ---- Thomas Jefferson

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miamimike says on Sep 30, 2009, 23:23:

Colombia praises President Clinton during NYC ceremony
Colombia praises President Clinton during NYC ceremony

By COLLEEN LONG
Associated Press Writer

June 9, 2007, 1:00 AM EDT

NEW YORK -- Colombians touted former President Bill Clinton as the unofficial minister of tourism, lavishing him with praise and honoring the work he's done to reverse the Latin American country's image of violence and drugs.

"Colombians are proud of your friendship, Mr. President," Colombian President Alvaro Uribe said as he gave Clinton the "Colombia is passion" award. Uribe said tourism has been up significantly since Clinton visited the country in 2001.

The ceremony Friday evening included a video extolling Clinton as a national hero, thanking him for "never believing the bad things" about Colombia. His quotes about the virtues of Colombia were plastered around the hall, and pictures of the former president wearing a traditional Colombian hat were pasted on staff T-shirts.

Uribe noted that violence is down and the country is safer, but said he was pushing for more positive change.

"We have improved. We need to do much more, but we are on the right way," Uribe said.

Clinton urged Congress to consider the strides Colombia has made, even as fellow Democrats threatened to reduce aid to Washington's closest ally in Latin America.

"So those of us who are trying to help, those of us who want to continue progress, owe it to our friends in Colombia to know what they've been through, and to express a little humility in the face of people who have already lost so much, and who are working so hard to build a better tomorrow," Clinton said.

Clinton shook hands with Uribe, who has struggled to defend himself against charges that members of his family and government supporters collaborated with murderous right-wing militias.

In April, former Vice President Al Gore backed out of an environmental conference in Miami to avoid appearing alongside the Colombian leader.

Clinton acknowledged that he was at the Manhattan event in part because of debate in Congress over free trade and aid to Colombia.

"We need to remember that we are friends," Clinton said. "We need to remember that we want to share a common future. We need to remember that for the first time in over three decades there is a law enforcement presence representing the elected government of Colombia."

Uribe's administration is trying to secure congressional passage of a free trade agreement signed by Uribe and the Bush administration last year, a deal the Colombian president considers his biggest foreign policy achievement.

Earlier Friday, presidential hopeful Sen. Chris Dodd circulated a letter made public May 22 urging Colombia to reverse the "infiltration" of murderous paramilitary groups at high government levels or risk losing $700 million in aid. The missive was signed by eight Democratic senators, including another candidate for president, Barack Obama.

Dodd's office said the letter was made public last month but most Colombians only learned about its existence on Friday, when a copy was published in a front-page story by Colombian newspaper El Tiempo.

Uribe said Friday he had no knowledge of the letter, also signed by Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, who froze $55 million in aid to Colombia's military in April as head of the subcommittee overseeing foreign aid.

"(Thursday) I met with Sen. Leahy for about an hour and he didn't tell me anything about this," Uribe said before departing for New York.

Leahy, in an e-mailed statement Friday, said "for several years, U.S. aid to Colombia has been on autopilot. I fully expect the Congress to continue support, because our countries share many interests. But the Congress is not going to be a rubber stamp. Those days are over."

While the guest list for Friday included hip-shaking Colombian pop star Shakira and former Clinton Cabinet member Madeleine Albright, neither attended. Presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton was traveling to Iowa, according to her schedule.

According to Justice Department filings, Colombia hired the public relations firm Burson-Marsteller _ whose president, Mark Penn, is a senior adviser to Sen. Clinton _ to help "educate members of the U.S. Congress and other audiences" about the trade deal and secure continued U.S. funding for the $5 billion anti-narcotics program Plan Colombia.

****Clinton was responsible for pushing Plan Colombia through Congress when he was in office, and wears a bracelet honoring a Colombian culture minister, Consuelo Araujo, who was kidnapped by leftist rebels and killed during a botched military rescue attempt shortly after they met at the White House in 2000. ******

Angela Montoya, organizer of the event for the "Colombia is passion" branding campaign, said the idea to honor Bill Clinton came last year, "before President Uribe was re-elected and all of Colombia thought the free trade agreement was a fact, not an issue."

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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jimbo67856 says on Sep 30, 2009, 23:23:

He didn't say he gave the Colombians anything. He said "the partnership we achieved" did that.

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. ---- Thomas Jefferson

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Dolfi says on Oct 1, 2009, 00:36:

A former US president speaking at a meeting with "hundreds of Latin American and Caribbean business and community leaders" about a program he started during his presidency. What did you expect?

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miamimike says on Oct 1, 2009, 00:59:

Pastrana, Clinton defend Colombia aid package

Clinton, left, and Pastrana walk in Cartegena, Colombia

August 30, 2000
Web posted at: 6:55 p.m. EDT (2255 GM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CARTAGENA, Colombia (CNN) -- During a joint news conference Wednesday, Colombian President Andres Pastrana and U.S. President Bill Clinton repeatedly challenged the idea that Pastrana's "Plan Colombia" initiative will result in the use of U.S. combat troops in South America.

*********"This is not Vietnam; neither is it Yankee imperialism," Clinton said in defending a controversia***l $1.3 billion U.S. aid package**** to help Colombia's war on drugs. ***********"A condition of this aid is that we are not going to get into a shooting war," he said. "Those are two of the false charges that have been hurled at Plan Colombia, so that won't happen."



War on drugs




The Colombian president was even more emphatic: "While Andres Pastrana is president, we will not have a foreign military intervention in Colombia."

'A massive undertaking'
Clinton's trip to Colombia, the first in a decade by a U.S. president, lends support to Pastrana's $7.5 billion initiative to break the grip that drug traffickers hold on the nation. Pastrana's plan also seeks to make peace with Marxist insurgents financed by drug profits, rev up the economy and strengthen the justice system.

"I hope the people of Colombia will understand it and be patient with him," Clinton said. "He's trying to do two things that no one's ever tried to do at once, but without it I don't think that either problem can be solved. He's trying to fight the narcotrafficking and find a way to have a diplomatic solution to the civil unrest that has dogged Columbia for 40 years. It is a massive undertaking."

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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jimbo67856 says on Oct 1, 2009, 02:16:

No yourself. ;)

Firstly it's entirely relevant because it's the entire essence of the discussion between you and I. Secondly Clinton said that the meeting of the IDB in Medellin wouldn't have been possible without Plan Colombia (i.e. the partnership), not that the meeting is what gave Colombians the ability to take back their country. The meeting to which he was referring happened this year, so obviously that didn't give the Colombians the ability to take their country back 10 years ago.

And no, he didn't take credit for anything. Clinton never said Plan Colombia was his idea and he obviously didn't say Colombia is safer today because of him. He said the partnership did all of that, a statement enjoying an important attribute: Accuracy.

I don't know about him being "the man." I'm not a fan. But in this instance he didn't do what you're saying he did. Another relevant fact. ;)

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. ---- Thomas Jefferson

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gatogris says on Oct 1, 2009, 06:50:

The game of politics has much in common, metaphorically speaking, with the skills of a traditionally trained artist. The lines that compose the form being sketched are more or less immutable, i.e. Clinton can't outright lie, any more than an artist who is rendering a figure can make a milkmaid look like a broken plate.

However, the politician's goal is to persuade others that he is competent and accomplished, just as the artist wishes to impart a particular interpretation of his or her painting.

I don't think there is any doubt that those who attended Clinton's ceremony understood that he was in some way 'taking credit' for the 'successes' of Plan Colombia (and he was preaching to a stacked deck - I am sure there wasn't a single invited guest who didn't believe that Plan Colombia's benefits outweigh its costs).

But the attendees also understood that Clinton was congratulating them for their support of the Plan, flattering their steadfastness in the face of criticism and their wisdom in the face of naysayers.

A good politician, and Clinton (despite some recent slip-ups) is one of the very best the contemporary US has produced, is a master at shading - like an artist, he reveals by illuminating some aspects of a picture and casting others into shadow. He can take credit and give it away in the same sentence, flatter and subtly threaten with the same words. Artfulness, in both senses of the word, is the name of the game.

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miamimike says on Oct 1, 2009, 10:03:

Go to the Congressional Record and you will find proof Clinton signed Plan Colombia into Law. This was NOT GW Bush's effort in any way shape or form. It was a done deal way before Dubya arrived on the scene. Bush Two was such a Hated Figure in Colombia he could hardly show his physical prescence and when he once did, it was inside a large security Bubble.

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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miamimike says on Oct 1, 2009, 10:07:

Yep he is taking full credit and he handed out the Presidental Signing pens after he did it. That's usually what is done by the person who signs a Bill into Law,,,

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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jimbo67856 says on Oct 1, 2009, 13:52:

Anti,

The meeting to which he referred is that of the Interamerican Development Bank, an outfit which lends money to all of Latin America and Caribbean countries. They have meetings all over the world, and the Medellin meeting was the 50th anniversary gathering which celebrated that, featured discussions for future projects in the whole of Latin America, and as its main focus discussed the ongoing global financial crisis. Colombia was not "the" topic of the meeting, although since it's a LA country it was "a" topic. Here's a link to the press release: http://www.iadb.org/news/detail.cfm?language=English&id=5144 The point is that the meeting wasn't "about Colombians" but was instead about all Latin American and Caribbean people.

What do I suppose Clinton highlighting Plan Colombia as an accomplishment means? Well, given that the reporter didn't include all of Clinton's words I'm not sure if he actually did that or if he merely said what was later attributed to him. But even if he did I still fail to see your point given that he was the one who negotiated with Pastrana, pushed Congress to pass the bill, and then signed it. I guess that might be construed as "taking credit," although when you deserve credit for something I'm not sure it's a bad thing to accept it. Not that I think Clinton deserves all of the credit, but only the blindest partisan would suggest he deserves none of it.

Again, I'm not a fan of his but you're reading things as you want to, not as they're written.

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. ---- Thomas Jefferson

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