Piedad Cordoba, The Negotiator

Golden Boy says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:43:

The whole thing was a farce from the beginning. First, Chavez is in bed with the FARC. And his public treatment of them like they are foreign dignataries was sickening. Second, what was the wisdom of trading 500 FARC terrorists, who would resume attacking the Colombian people, for 50 hostages? The FARC would just replenish their bargaining chips and still have literally thousands more people in captivity anyway. And Uribe already unwisely released 150 terrorists and Rodrigo Granda and got nothing out of the deal so I don't see why he is to blame at all for this one.

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lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:51:

Forget the beret and flowers. She is not appropiately dressed as a government hostage negotiator...period.

t

"cook some rice!"

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gatogris says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:52:

What should she be wearing?

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gatogris says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:53:

Business casual? Chanel pantsuit? Flak jacket? Red silk stockings and a smile?

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lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:56:

Say what you want...the FARC representative were appropiately dressed. The lady got upstaged.

t

"cook some rice!"

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coffee beaner says on Dec 6, 2007, 14:58:

Does she have hair under that turbin? I hate that b!tch, she thinks she is the Colombian version of Martin Luther King and she way out of that league.

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gatogris says on Dec 6, 2007, 15:06:

She certainly is ambitious. I hope that isn't clouding her judgement in pursuit of an agreement. It is ironic to say the least that politicians, who have the most personal stake in raising their own profile, are often the only people who are in a position to help in situations such as this. I liked James LeMoyne, ex-NYT reporter and FARC negotiator. He didn't seem to me like he was running for office while negotiating.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 6, 2007, 15:58:

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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coffee beaner says on Dec 6, 2007, 16:00:

ughhh I just puked inside my mouth!

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lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 16:32:

um coffee...where else would you puke??? lol

t

"cook some rice!"

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dwmte7 says on Dec 6, 2007, 18:30:

it's always the same...bush, uribe, et al. they let their collossal egos get in the way of humanitarian efforts and, as a rule, usually just fuck things up. they've always got some reason for not wanting to talk with someone i.e. bush/amadinajad; uribe/marulanda; bush/kim jung il; uribe/ELN (garcia?); etc.

they just get it in their heads that they're right and the other guys wrong and their shit don't stink and the other guy's does. you can reverse the order as necessary as they're all good guys and they're all bad guys. just depends from which angle you look at them....too, i guarantee you that both of their shit stinks.

as it turns out, they're all responsible for countless thousands of deaths, they're all corrupt and i really wouldn't trust any of them even if i could keep my eyes on them. they lie, they cheat and they steal. they invest the public trust in armaments and death and forget who it is they're supposed to represent.

dwmte

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billyb says on Dec 6, 2007, 19:04:

"Betancourt's letter raves about how attached to France she is but doesn't mention much feeling for Colombia"

And yet she wanted to be president of Colombia.

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lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 19:07:

Maybe a little quiet time to reflect has given her other ideas.

t

"cook some rice!"

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Rikito says on Dec 7, 2007, 04:42:

Hey dwmte7, Merry Christmas to you. We now know where the Grinch spends his sumers. Maybe you should be the Secy Genl of the UN.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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dwmte7 says on Dec 7, 2007, 05:52:

thanks, rikito, right back at you. naw, i wouldn't do any good in these types of jobs, i'm an altruist and they usually end up dead or disgraced. too, i ain't for sale. at least not cheap.

merry christmas to you an all....at home and abroad.

dwmte

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gatogris says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:42:

It must be pretty tough to be an effective negotiator though. Maintain the appearence of impartiality,all while attempting to maneuver groups into a perceived win-win situation who are acutely suspicious and protective of their own interests.I wouldn´t want to try to `work´ the FARC - they seem to me to be possessed of the low, bestial cunning common to more primative peoples.

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juancegomez says on Dec 7, 2007, 09:57:

Those photos did not help, at all, but I don't feel they made her mediation efforts invalid or anything like it, despite their eventual outcome always being in question.

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gatogris says on Dec 7, 2007, 13:46:

I support Piedad Cordoba's efforts overall, not because I particulalry sympathize with her policy positions, but because she might be part of a resurgent left-wing that could become a representative politcal party. One destructive aspect of Uribe's administration has been the systematic undermining and subsequent collapse of traditional politcal parties, and thus the collapse of local representation - very bad for democracy. I'm no fan of Horacio Serpa mind you, and corruption will always be a problem, but democracy without parties is unthinkable.

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Rikito says on Dec 8, 2007, 08:44:

"democracy without parties is unthinkable." This is a false statement and has little viability. You do not need politcal parties to have Democracy. Where did you ever conjure this up? But, it's ok to have political parties as long as they can work towards credible solutions and achievable goals. What good is a party that never offers solutions but only criticises the opposition. This is what Cordoba' and her party does. Cordoba and her party accomplish nothing. All they do is criticise, tell lies, cry that nobaody loves me and crap like that. Cordoba has never accomplished anything of value. She hates Uribe and does anything to undermine him. She offers no credible solutions. She did nothing in Venezuela other than bob her head whenever Chavez spoke.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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gatogris says on Dec 8, 2007, 11:45:

Rikito, I wish I could take credit for that sentiment, but its simply been the basis for every credible debate on the subject of democratic consolidation since the phrase first appeared in print in 1942. This is just another sad case of you not knowing what you are talking about.

If you want to bone up a little, here is a relatively recent link that might help. Sorry.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4000/is_200310/ai_n9310759

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Rikito says on Dec 9, 2007, 04:53:

I think it is you that does not know what you are talking about. You can't base your thought or beliefs on one small 200-word general article that did not even have a thing to do with Colombia. One of the problems with Latin American (small d) democracy is that they have too many parties. They splinter and cancel each others vote. The parties do not know what they want other than to destruct the other guy as in the case of Cordoba. She is not running for a thought or a principle...she rune because for some reason that she seldom explains, she hates Uribe despite his successes.

You also need to understand the thesis for the article that is the "opinion" of E. E. Schattschneider and similar scholars. Schattschneider was a U.S. political scholar who based all of writings on U.S. politics. He is expressing the beliefs of college students in Latin America. College students that do not have jobs or income, for the most part do not have wives, children, money, debt or much of anything else of structure. Most Latin American students are more aware of political thought than U.S. students, but they follow others and follow by emotion. They tend to be socialist and as I have tried to suggest to folks like you and Cordoba they have no solutions that would work. Yes, they were a big impact against Chavez, but what do they vote for? Nothing! What did they vote against? Chavez! And good for them, but now that the election is over they go back to their classes until something else comes along that they do not like.

The thing you may not be aware of...The United States is not a democracy and never has been and it never intended to be. The U.S. is a Republic that is based on democratic principles. It is a representative government. Emphasis on "representative government". It is at the representative level the democracy takes affect. People are elected to represent the general beliefs of their constituents plus their own beliefs and in most cases the party they represent.

Unlike you who base his belief on a 200-word article from non-Latino intelligence, I will admit that I do not know enough about Latin American politics to say whether or not they need parties. I will agree that they probably need political parties to help define and express political wants and needs, but not so many parties in an election that the electorate does not even know who or what they are voting for. But, I do believe that they do not need people like Cordoba who only seek to divide, and not solve; who only seeks destroy and not build. Like most failures such as your friend Cordoba, they seldom have ideas about what to do. Cordoba has no solutions, has no productive ideas, and has constructive thought for peace or anything else. Cordoba's beliefs are the politics of destruction...and not of building a future for the masses and their children. And communism and socialism is not the answer. It is a miserable failure wherever it is installed because it takes away the party and takes away freedom of thought and freedom of choice.

And if I do not know what I am talking about, what are your credentials of political thought other than a 200-word article? If you were a countried Latino I could understand your sophomoric remark, but I doubt if you are.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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Sr Tertius says on Dec 9, 2007, 07:46:

Rikito: How about those donuts?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Rikito says on Dec 9, 2007, 09:08:

The Krispy Kreams are on thier way. Just have to find where I put the coupons. Has anyone ever measured Cordoba's head...it's huge!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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gatogris says on Dec 9, 2007, 10:54:

Ritkito, I'm sorry maybe you didn,t scroll down far enough? The article is 29 pages long. And it cites many Latin American scholars on the importance of institution building (i.e. parties) such as Guillermo O'Donnell, Enrique Peruzotti, etc.

As for Cordoba, I have no particular attachment to her one way or the other. Nor her head. She merely strikes me as a figure that might be indicative of an organizational development on the part of the Colombian left, one that could lead to the viable construction of an effective politcal party, that among many other purposes, could give rise to more effective represenation at the local level. This is something most Colombian observers feel would benefit the country.

Now, as for your personal opposition to Cordoba, that provides me with a good example of why figures such as her are important. Many studies of democratic particpation show that voters often act with certain tendencies based on negative reactions - in other words, an important aspect of voter engagement is dsilike for other candidates. In the US for example, many expect that if Hillary Clinton wins the democratic nemoniation, this will lead many people who would not otherwise vote to vote against her.

Since I believe that the most important long-term goal for Colombian politcal society is ultimately democratic particpation, and not the attributes of one particular candidate or another, getting a little worked up about good-for-nothing commie university students and socialist women with big heads is good for democracy. So, by all means cling to your negative personal viewpoint of Cordoba. As long is it leads you to the voting booth to vote against her, and keeps you from voter apathy, that's all that really matters.

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slguy says on Dec 9, 2007, 13:40:

There's not much she can do about her head. But that pot belly? Lose it or hide it better, sweetheart. jajajajjajajajja

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Rikito says on Dec 10, 2007, 06:15:

Gatogris, I agree with almost most of what you say, but I do not think that you are listening to me so allow me to clarify my thoughts.

Democracy with political parties...I agree it's a good idea although not always necessary, but the political party need to stand for something constructive or just stand for something period. Cordoba and her party do not stand for anything. Please understand this part. Cordoba has not one useful idea that would benefit Colombia and Colombians. Also, since she has been in politics, I do not believe that she has ever accomplished one beneficial thing.

I could care less what party a person belongs to or what their beliefs are as long as they say something to the effect, "Join and vote for us and this or that and we will in turn do what the majority wants us to do." For example, the Communist party is not for me but they do have ideas that are what they feel are helpful and will benefit the country. At least in their mind they do. Ok so let's give them a chance to improve our country, help the economy, reduce crime, provide greater employment and improve education. If they do this they should be given their due if they don't let's vote them out of office and trey someone else.

But, Cordoba does none of this. She only criticizes hates, and wants Uribe and his kind out of office. Cordoba is a weak anarchist. She wants abolition of the Colombian government as the indispensable condition for full social and political liberty. But she has nothing to replace it with except her boys at FARC. And she is willing to use violence to achieve that goal. I have yet to read nor see anything of what Cordoba would replace the government with that would be an improvement on what she pretends.

Gatogris, Cordoba has no ideas to improve, no ideas to help, and no ideas to lead. Apparently, she is not intelligent enough to know what she wants. She does not want to lead, she only wants to destroy. She has no solutions to improve…only solutions to destroy.

Now Gatogris, explain to me where I am wrong and why? If she has any of this I would listen to her…probably not agree with her but she should be afforded the respect to hear her ideas to make Colombia the greatest country in SA.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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Rikito says on Dec 10, 2007, 06:25:

I'm still looking for the donuts so hang in there. Everythime I get a batch od jelly donuts, Piedad Cordoba eats them before I get a chance to send Sr Tertius what I owe.

sorry!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Dec 10, 2007, 06:42:

I thought you owed EVERYONE on the website a donut, not just Sr. Tertius. You better hire Santa's delivery service.

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Rikito says on Dec 10, 2007, 07:19:

Oh geeze! Give me a break...with this crowd do you have any idea how many donuts that is? Hell, Elmo is worth a least 2 dozen. Maybe a could fill them with some happy sauce.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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gatogris says on Dec 10, 2007, 10:41:

Rikito, yes we are in agreement, as long as your disagreements with Cordoba's political record are registered with the ballot box and not an M40A3 sniper rifle.

What's the deal with the donuts?

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Rikito says on Dec 10, 2007, 15:07:

You don't know aboutthe donuts? Tinto keep you mouth closed! So many donuts so few nuts!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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Rikito says on Dec 10, 2007, 15:24:

Ok gatogris, I can't keep a secret . Tinto has a hardon for Cordoba. Everytime he sees her butt he thinks of a large plate of jelley donuts!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

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bogjudge says on Dec 12, 2007, 16:11:

She through her recent actions has disgraced herself and has betrayed her president. It matters little what one individually thinks of Uribe - he at least has conducted himself nobly in this affair.

And as for the Pilsbury Doughboy, it is said here in Colombia that every village has its "bobo" or fool - some might call them idiots. No matter, Armenia has the unique distinction of being home to its resident expatriate Estadounidense bobo.

What Lies Over Yonder Horizon?

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