Passport for my Colombian girlfriend

BAQ says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:12:

THINK SHE IS NOT TELLING YOU THE ENTIRE STORY.

Even if DEPORTED from another country, that would not affect her PASSPORT since it is issued by her home country. Only reason she would need a NEW passport would be for a NAME CHANGE or RENEWAL.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like she never had a passport and probably entered Panama illegally with no documents.

I also suspect she asked you to pay for her new passport? Correct?

Semper Fidelis !

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:20:

I pay for a lot of things for her but my income can more than handle it.

We met in Panama City, I personally "verified" her passport while we were dating there. My best guess is that immigration in Panama canceled her visa and that shes under the impression it voided her passport or that the voided Panama visa will prevent her from obtaining one for Aruba. She told me that she expects they'll have her passport ready tomorrow and that there should not be any issues, i'm just stressing as previously mentioned but I really had no idea whether or not Colombia would void or refuse to issue a passport to one of their own.

Concerning her deportation, she was mixed up with some people who had hired her an attorney to get her out of detention on the ruse that she would be given a plane ticket home after driving across the border to Costa Rica. I brought this to the attention of my Panamanian friend who promptly contacted his niece who is an attorney in Panama. She very plainly told him that she was certain they were trying to traffick her. Long story short, she went to Panama City to file for a voluntary deportation and the people involved with the trafficking attempt fled the country.

msaucey says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:27:

Technically, she should have received her passport the same day... There is normally no delay.... I think you may have a cause for concern.... and who knows she may be taken into custody... Be prepared for anything.... Good Luck... Let us know the turnout, we'll cross our fingers and hope for the best...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:30:

Why would they take her into custody? When she flew into Bogota from Panama City it was an arranged turnover. Her fine in Panama was paid by "my attorney." She was allowed to carry from there.

She tells me that her original passport took two days.

slguy says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:34:

I hope she's worth it to you, friend. This one TROUBLE written all over it!

But obviously, is your decison - good luck!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 14:43:

How is she trouble?

rcmkensington says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:09:

I am a frequent visitor to Colombia and have also been to Panama. Listen to the posters. She is trouble. I"d move on.

First, the odds are very high that she was working as a prostitute in Panama. Panama uses dollars, as you know and is very expensive (even now with the dollar weak) for a Colombian citizen. Young women living alone in Panama are not vacationing. They are turning tricks. Don't believe me, ask any cab driver in Panama. Sure, if she is (upper) middle class, maybe her family was paying for her to study or vacation there. But then, she wouldn't be asking you to support her, now would she?

In my experience, Colombian whores are masters of deception and act like girlfriends, unlike in the U.S. We want to believe they are not whores, or will leave the prostitution world with our help. I've been there and done that, several times -- and every time it's been a mistake. They took my money, for example, to pay for school, lied about going to school (complete with fake documents) and, of course, continued hooking. A hooker is a hooker and Rule One should always be "Don't fall in love with a hooker." Rule Two should be "Don't believe for a second that a hooker is hooking out of pure necessity and would love to stop hooking." They get used to it and it is easy money. Keep in mind the minimum wage is just over $225 per month and minimum wage (and long hours) is the most these girls can get -- if that. Why work for $225 per month when you can make that in a week or less hooking -- even more if you convince a stupid gringo to send you money. I should know. I've been there and done that. Learn from my stupidity. And, I speak fluent Spanish.

The Panama government is not aggressive about deporting illegal or overstaying Colombians --- EXCEPT for hookers, who are subject to periodic raids. So, the fact she was deported from Panama says it all.

As for not getting a Colombian passport, that is indeed strange. There is no reason for that to happen unless she has used a false identity or the like.

Kick her to the curb. If you like her too much to do that and think she's into you, there's only one test that will work. Stop giving her money and see what happens!

If you are convinced things are different in this case and can't believe that nice girl is what I say, I understand. I was blind for a time also. Keep your guard up, ask lots of questions and take nothing she says at face value. Good luck, I've got my fingers crossed as well.

RUV says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:09:

The money for one. Sounds like it will lead to more money from your end. It also sounds like she was in some shifty scheme. From your post it also sounds like she is holding back information from you.

What was she doing in Panama? Vacation, work, student visa, business, or other?

Good luck. Be careful.

rumronrum says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:13:

I hope your income can handle a lot more since your going to have to pay and pay and pay. Is this the first Colombiana you've dated? Suggest you hire a PI and save yourself a lot of pain. No matter what good luck to you.

RumRonRum

rumronrum says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:29:

rcmkensington, You've hit the nail on the head! Bulls-eye! Direct Hit! Anyone not following your advice will loss a ton of money and experience a lot of pain. Thanks for your comments, ronrumron

RumRonRum

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:43:

The attorney I hired (my friend's niece) was effectively my PI. She did extensive research into the situation and pretty much interrogated her while in detention.

Her cousin actually is a prostitute and was attempting to recruit her into the job. Generally I would agree with you rcmkensington but I believe my due dilgence is very solid. Her passport was issued roughly a week prior to when I met her and she spent the vast majority of her time in my presence. A "friend" of mine was attempting to make this same argument and offered her $200 for "services" which was declined. Her defense with immigration was that she was visiting her cousin and not actually working. She would visit with her cousin for several hours in the day and spent the rest of the time staying with me. We had her deported for her own safety because the attorney felt it was the easiest way to get her out of the country and prevent her from becomin someone's property.

rcmkensington, i'm really not sure what kinds of Colombianas you were meeting. She has a child and a family back home and spends 100% of her time managing the household. I've spoken with her mother, father, sister, brother, and grandmother. My Panamanian friend spent hours on the phone with her mother who cried hysterically at the thought of losing her when in detention. There are at least some people who value their own dignity, it's unfair to classify an entire nationality like this. I can't say I blame you, however, there were very clearly a group of girls in Panama who very much enjoyed their occupations.

On the subject of sending her money, I cannot in good conscience date someone who would have to work 16 hours a day x 6 to barely cover the bills when 5 - 10 hours of my own labor could handle the same. Regardless of her intent, it's charity either way. She has never asked me for anything and still looks for work regardless of what I offer her (eg. nails, cooking food etc).

rumonrum,

I don't make a habit of going to other countries looking for girlfriends, I just happened to meet her while working in Panama City.

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 15:53:

rcmkensington,

Moving off subject a moment, could you please explain how one such as yourself determines that you're become scammed? Did she slip up or did you suddenly determine that was the case? I cannot imagine that she simply threw in the towel..

LEGMANN says on Jul 25, 2007, 16:09:

Sounds to me that ur girlfriend is taking u for a ride!!!!

miamimike says on Jul 25, 2007, 16:30:

Sounds like many of the Girls who work at "Gloria's Casa in Balboa, Panama(port stop on the panama canal for merchant seaman) The passport situation is very strange to say the least as is the fact you are sending money,,,number one caveat, never send a colombiana Money,,,never

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 16:42:

Why is it that many of you wish to throw out objective reasoning in place of your own biases and ill experiences?

RAAAY says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:04:

deathnova.......................most, if not all of these posts are trying to encourage YOU to apply a little objective reasoning..............

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:08:

RAAAY,

I certainly appreciate advice when it's given, but it seems that many are trying to paint the picuture that I picked her up working a hotel casino or something equally as trashy.

RAAAY says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:16:

....... but it seems that many are trying to paint the picuture that I picked her up working a hotel casino or something equally as trashy.


.....................I have read every post here........nobody is saying that or anything like it................they are, however, pointing out some things that you are having some difficulty accepting............

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:21:

RAAAY,

Clearly. If I had accepted that she was a prostitute, using me for money, etc. I would not be dating her. My decision to do so is based on my own due diligence and knowledge of her.

It does not occur to me that many here are willing to accept that she has a real life back home and never wanted to be a prostitute.

The money I provide her pays for many expenses incurred by her immediate family. It goes without saying that I have no obligation to do so and clearly not for the whole clan. As previously mentioned, it's a charity and I feel it's money better spent than on a sports car, a bigger house, etc. to support a family who has very little.

rcmkensington says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:41:

OK, I wish you the best of luck and maybe your due dilgence has confirmed that you found that rare Colombian girl in Panama who is poor, working a legitimate job and not hooking. But, I sincerely doubt it.

What was she doing overstaying her visa status in Panama? What non-hooking job did she have? (Trust me, legimate businesses in Panama don't easily hire uneducated Colombian women without work papers) Did you check it out personally? Apparently not. Is the lawyer trustworthy? I have never hired a lawyer in Panama, but I have hired lawyers for real estate purchases in Colombia -- and have had to go thru several before finding one who is honest and who I can trust.

And, if she is so poor that you are supporting her, as appears to be the case, what in the world was she doing spending money on airfare, etc. to Panama (or did she go to Costa Rica first -- most hookers in Costa Rica are also Colombian, I''ve also been in CR?) that she needed for her child? Spending good money just visiting her prostitute cousin? Maybe her cousin had lined up a legitimate job for her and that's what she was doing in Panama. Is that the story? Does it make sense that her hooker cousin could or would line up anything other than a hooker job in a foreign country? How was it she came to the police's attention? Stopped at the border coming in from Costa Rica (Your post is not clear on that)? Busted at her legitimate job? Nothing adds up to me, but you have all of the facts and I don't.

You say "I personally "verified" her passport while we were dating there. My best guess is that immigration in Panama canceled her visa and that shes under the impression it voided her passport or that the voided Panama visa will prevent her from obtaining one for Aruba."

What do you mean "verified" her passport? She was legitimately visiting (or was it working) for a week or so and she winds up in deportation proceedings or jail!!?? And, what do you mean your "best guess?" DIdn't you see documents? DIdn't your lawyer friend tell you exactly what happened? If not, why not?

You appear to be absolutely convinced, but the facts posted don't add up to me. I know all too well what it's like to be enchanted with what appears to be a sincere and pretty woman. I've been there and done that. I too met the family and spoke regularly on the phone. (Remember, I"m fluent in Spanish). Hookers in Colombia who live with their parents will often sneak out and turn tricks -- and the parents aren't the wiser. (If you get them talking, they'll laugh and tell you --- I speak from first hand experience.) If they can pull that off, fooling a gringo who lives thousands of miles away and doesn't understand the language or the culture all that well is duck soup.

Colombian girls, especially the hookers have a sixth sense (the word in Colombia is "malicia indigena") and know when they've got a fish on the line -- trust me, you're speaking to the fish. So, the fact that she doesn't ask you for money or that she turned down your friend's $200 doesn't mean anything. She knows a nice, earnest guy "fish" when she sees one. You probably volunteered to help her out didn't you? (Don't worry, I've done the same thing. Like I said, you're talking to an experienced fish.) And, you're right, I've met too many low socioeconomic women who I either wanted to "rescue" from prostitution or who I thought were into me, when they see a meal ticket. The non-hookers are in my experience every bit as deceptive as the hookers. Ask around, I don't think my experiences are that unusual. There is a real perception and culture "gap" and the value systems we have as middle class Americans are very different from lower class Colombian women (sorry, your GF fits into that category). Sure, there are some lower class Colombian women who are eager to study, learn, work legitimate jobs, and might be into a nice American man. But, I think the value and culture gap is wide and you have to be very very careful. GIve it lots of time and verify everything. Ripping off the gringo is very much part of the culture and her own family will support and egg her on to do that. (Wait till she tells you her child is sick, she needs extra rent or study money, etc.) My biases have become class based. A Colombian girl who has a decent job who dates you, doesn't ask for money and even refuses money from you (they do exist) is the way to go. Generally, this will be middle class women. Remember, Colombia (and Panama) are third world countries. In the US almost everyone is middle class and (in my view) if you are poor, there is a reason for it. In a third world country, 70% of the country lives in poverty, there is a struggling middle class of maybe 20% of the population and an elite class of no more than 10% (if that) who dominate. So, depending on where you look, the odds strongly favor your encountering a lower socio economic class girl. They are the most dangerous.

How did I figure out I'd been scammed? I, like you, have good income and my heart went out to my supposed GFs, just like yours did. They all said they wanted to study, so I (stupidly) said, study, get your high school diploma, or in one case, finish a supposed college vocational program, and I'll pay for it and give you enough to live on. There reached a point where I became suspicious that they had so many health problems (or other pretty credible reasons) that required extra money. So, I took a very simple step. I said I'd had a financial reversal and stopped giving them money. Sure, if I was in Colombia, I'd get together and pay for everything, but that was it. They'd date me because they liked being with me, not because I gave them money. It is the ONLY test. In one case, after the money flow ended, she became mysteriously hard to get a ahold of and her excuses became difficult to swallow. Once I was in Colombia and she was unable to get together. (I'll save you the detailed excuses and the seemingly anguished calls as to how upset she was that we hadn't gotten together.) Then, I confronted a mutual friend and discovered she'd had a boyfriend on the side, pretty much all along. (She was using my money to help support him!) In the other case, once the gravy train was over, she copped an obvious attitude and that was that. I later confirmed that she bragged to a friend what a dumb gringo I was. She was right. Don't put yourself in that position.

That is why it is CRITICAL that you NOT give her money. She survived for years without you. If she can't survive without your money, or claims she can't, something's wrong.

You appear to like this girl and maybe she is what you say. You may not see it this way, but you are making the same mistake that well off parents sometimes make with teenage children -- they don't want to have their children "suffer" like they had to suffer and give them money. That creates a dependency. Work is good for a teenager and work is good for a single mother. (remember, unlike in the US, child care is cheap and easy to get in Colombia -- and relatives are also available.) Honest work is good for the soul. What's wrong with her working long and hard? Millions like her do it. That's what she did before, assuming you are correct and she wasn't hooking. Learn from my experience -- I thought exactly what you do. What kind of guy am I who can easily help my GF and doesn't do it? Wrong question.

The question you should ask is what kind of girl is she accepting money from her BF to live on? The Colombian women I've met who are worthwhile absolutely refuse to accept money from me and will even refuse when I offer to buy them something. Some appear to be scaping along, others have pretty good jobs.

What would you think of an American woman who took your money instead of working? Would you accept that? Apply the same criteria.

I wish you the best and I hope you are right about your GF. Keep my experience in mind, however, and the second something doesn't add up, cut off the gravy train. If she loves you, nothing will change. You appear to be an earnest, nice guy (I view myself the same way). Decent American guys are very vulnerable. Keep that in mind at all times. It is a different world in a third world country.

Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:46:

I think what everyone is trying to say if she is a pro you are never going to know. Not that you think she is and are going along with it. Actually that is the better deal. Your comment about money better spent than on a sports car or bigger house? how much money are you sending? People here just trying to help you out

RAAAY says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:48:

Russiawithlove....................... I'll have a wager with you....................this young lady is between 15 and 20 years younger than our bespotted friend...

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

RAAAY says on Jul 25, 2007, 17:50:

OOpppss........that should have been besotted

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 18:14:

RussiaWithLove,

I'm slightly more than three years older.

rcmkensington,

Clearly there are many things that I could not ascertain from my position.

To answer your questions, in short, her cousin was trying to recruit her and the "pimp" (an American nonetheless) was financing the entire trip at first. I did not rescue her from prostitution, I told her from the beginning that if she became involved with it I would not date her. The cousin became quite upset with me and had a hand in trying to have her sold in Costa Rica in an effort to get her away from my influence. None of this came from her, it came from the attorney (read: niece of one of my best friends here in the U.S. who is a Panamanian immigrant. She was working for him on my behalf for expenses only and waived all fees). The law firm involved hired several PI's to pick it all apart before they brought the case to immigration asking that she be deported for her own safety.

She was disillusioned into thinking there was legitimate work for her in Panama. Once she became aware of the truth she began sticking to me and I 'protected' her in a couple diffrent ways. One, the Policia Nacional would leave her be when they would stop us on the street after seeing my U.S. passport and credentials (I am an authority of sorts, i'll leave that there). She was only arrested after I flew back to the U.S. (same day) and that is how I could not verify what had happened to her passport from there. When I received the call from her in detention I too had many of the same concerns as you and this is why I 'hired' the attorney to investigate. The second way I 'protected' her was by having a friendly conversation with her would-be "pimp" and hinting that he could be extradited back to the U.S. (remember, he's American) for any crimes that he may or may not be committing. From that day on he was very sociable and happy to let her stay with me.

There were many elements tying her to her cousin and the "pimp" (aside from being a poor Colombiana who the Policia Nacional automatically label as prostitutes) which established probable cause for her detention. She did not overstay her visa, rather the "pimp" had her convinced it was okay to work on a tourist visa and one could not convince the Policia that she was not hooking despite the fact that I had her in my presence the vast majority of the time.

On the subject of social values, it would occur to me that if you cut off a poor girl's gravy train that she would become a bit upset. She goes from living comfortably to struggling. People who are that poor do not always have the frame of mind not to become angry or upset when people like you and I are living in large, clean houses and driving sports cars and you're forcing them to go back to living on their means simply because your paycheck became a bit lighter. By no means am I criticizing your decision or state that you're outright incorrect rather simply trying to put it in another persons perspective. It seems to me that cutting off the gravy train and having her become angry and cutting it off and receiving the middle finger should be viewed a bit diffrently (with the latter being more serious).

I've had Americans leech my bankroll and i've had Americans cheat on me, so i'm honestly a bit confused as to how or why I should treat this any diffrently. A woman who wants to be unfaithful will do just and that the truth will not come out until later. If you love someone and your best due diligence does not uncover any issues then waiting to see if all that can be done.

I will make one admission and state that i'm pretty certain there is a certain element of meal ticket syndrome involved. A successful person is naturally attractive, especially when their income is 20 or more times what you could make on your own. That alone does not prove nor defeat any notion that she is or is not using me solely for that purpose.

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 18:15:

Conchale Vale!!,

I'd rather keep my specific finances private but i'll let you know if you're in the correct ballpark if you want to start taking guesses just so that we're all speaking on the same note.

deathnova says on Jul 25, 2007, 18:29:

Haha, you're terrible ;)

Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 25, 2007, 18:31:

It not really that important what the details are. like every guy you will do what your going to do regardless of others opinions. We all do that. Good luck

rcmkensington says on Jul 25, 2007, 19:20:

Your story is, to a casual reader like me, unusual. You don't say where or how you met her, how it is that the Panama police got involved (other than your lawyer calling them), what job your GF thought she'd be getting in Panama, etc. Neither the cousin nor the pimp have reason to be upset with her if they lied to her in the first place, and they would have no reason to do so. A substantial number of Colombian girls would LOVE to have a Pimp front trip costs for an opportunity to earn dollars in Panama hooking -- far more than can be earned hooking in Colombia.

In the meanwhile, let me see if I've got this right:

1) Your GF accepted money from a Gringo pimp to travel to Panama, either not knowing he was a pimp or not knowing that her cousin was hooking in Panama, or if she did know, believing that these worthies were going to get her a legitimate job?

2) The cousin tried to get your innocent GF, who had never hooked in her life before into Panama on false pretenses? That is, the cousin had nothing better to do than mislead your GF and cause her pimp to waste money in the process -- something that would not exactly endear the pimp to the cousin?

3) The cousin tried to have your GF "sold" to Costa Rica to avert your influence? Or was it because your GF was going out with you and not paying back the pimp the money he was out?

4) Instead of just giving her a plane ticket back to Colombia, you, on the lawyer's advice, had the police formally deport her so she would have a record and not be allowed to ever return to Panama? Like I said, is the lawyer competent or legitimate?

5) The police think that young Colombian women are hookers, but that's unfair to your GF who is not and never has been one, even though she was staying with her hooker cousin, and had her trip paid for by a pimp and almost got kidnapped to Costa Rica?

6) Colombian women who get money from American BFs have a right to be supported without working and to get upset if the money flow ends because we have so much and they have so little.

I'll give you an alternative theory to consider and think about. Your GF turned tricks now and then in Colombia, but had never formally worked in a whorehouse, i.e. had Colombian amigos she'd get together with for money, probably working thru a handler. She agrees to go to Panama, but finds the whorehouse environment where she is obligated to be with just about anyone who enters the establishment to be hard to deal with. She meets you and you make it clear you don't do hookers. (Although, how DID you meet her?) She smells a gravy train in the making, and maybe she even likes you a little bit. So, she tells the cousin and the pimp she's not going to work off what she owed the pimp for the trip since she doesn't like the whorehouse environment and she's got you on the line. The rest is pretty much as you say.

Food for Thought

You appear to be a good guy and I want you to consider other experiences. Time will tell who's right. You will have to see for yourself. Do a post or send an email with an update if you would. I assume if you were dead wrong and we were right (and note that every poster, without exception is telling you you're making a mistake), you are capable of admitting it -- many guys are not, but I think you are.

Best of luck to you..

manINred says on Jul 25, 2007, 19:45:

Deathnova,

People give advice on girls in Colombia based on their own experiences. This means that the advice is, without a doubt, based on an extreme lack of details and a lot of missing information. People have previously tried to paint my novia as someone she is not, and I have received laughable advice in some cases. Only you know here, and only you can be the judge of her character.

That being said I have also received valuable advice when it comes to visas and whatnot... and this website can be a plethora of valuable information in general. The advice given here is very good (at least by kensington) but be wary of over-cynicism. Go with your gut instinct, and keep your guard up, don't be complacent, and you should be fine. Try and find out about exactly what she was doing in Panama, and in the end, you will choose the right path. At the very least, if you stray down the wrong path at the very least you can back out with minimal damage done.

Good luck to you.

By the way don't expect her to ever visit you in your developed country, that's one thing I have unfortunately learned here.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 25, 2007, 22:02:

If you ignore this advice or convince yourself that she is different, and what a lot of these responders say is wrong ... I will tell you when you will find out the truth. One of the absolute deal breakers in a K1 or K3 (fiance or spouse visa to the US), is if the beneficiary has ever worked in the sex industry, ie: prostitute. Another is being deported from another country. This will be investigated by the US consulate. At the very least, they will know she was deported. Because it will be in her passport or will show up on her DAS provided certificado migratorio.

I also feel you are a stand-up guy. NOBODY here so far has broken your balls over this story or made fun of you. Many have made the same mistakes. I think you are brave to post your story here. And I also feel your gut tells you something ain't adding up ... otherwise, why did you post? Some of the comments and responses to your post are extremely well articulated, and those people took a long time to think out what they were saying to you. These responses were not just jerk-offs trying to mess with you. Please really listen to them and think about it.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Robert Jorge says on Jul 25, 2007, 22:18:

Also, to add to what a couple of guys said above: She and her family never had plata de gringo before. Why the hell is it so life and death now? If you want to really see if she loves you for real, do this: Tell her you lost your job. Tell her things are financially strained, and there is no way you could send her any money for the foreseeable future. Then tell her, "but, I think my friend will loan me enough money to buy a plane ticket to Colombia". "I might just move there to be with you." My guess is if you stick to that story (she won't believe you at first) until she realizes you are serious, she will disappear like a fart in the wind. If she is still around, well then a lot of us will have been mistaken ... and happily mistaken. Good luck.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

clementstephan says on Jul 26, 2007, 01:04:

Get your Harry Potter stuff out off the closet ....keep the finger where she feels the pain by blowing up the cash flew with a well-considered excuse. Be inventive...be smart...keep your eyes open...try to read between the lines...be always 1 step further.
Try it the romantic way...if she can survive on your love and only on your love...you will be on the wright track.
btw..Sorry for my Belgium English
Good luck my friend...if you are happy...we are happy

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 03:30:

Robert Jorge,

What is a DAS certificado migratorio? I also have a U.S. immigration attorney who specializes in Colombia. We had a consultation and he seemed pretty certain nothing derogatory would surface if I did decide to marry her (read: *not* in the works right now ;) )

If you read my original post, I think the deportation from Panama was the reason she wanted a new passport.

rcmkensington,

I met her in a club, you know the kind with music and alcohol, not a "whore house."

1) Correct.

2) Correct. The cousin was to receive a commission and convinced her it was a restaurant job that would be comparable to U.S. wages for the same. Both of her parents had previously worked so until then they were able to get by without her having to find a job. Her mother pretty much knew what was going on and would make angry calls to the "pimp" who would also lie and say he operated a restaurant.

3) Something like that. I couldn't tell you exactally.

4) The "pimp" had an attorney too and was trying to convince immigration to release her to him and had told them it was for the purpose of taking her to Costa Rica. Interestingly enough, 'my' attorney had suggested this might be happening prior to actually researching it and finding it to be true. She found the voluntary deportation to be the fastest way to get her home safely. Immigration would not simply let her walk. They had to escort her out of the country which was appealing to the attorney because it reduced the risk of retalation if she were to go free in Panama once again.

5) Not unfair, just frustrating.

6) I wouldn't call it a "right," but I suspect anyone who is that poor would be more apt to toss away their social manners in favor of survival.

bueno_pues says on Jul 26, 2007, 06:10:

Todos los gringos bobos que estan casados con putas Colombianas piensan que sus mujeres eran monjas antes.

Monpirri says on Jul 26, 2007, 06:36:

The problem is about ignorance, many "gringos" as you called them, do not know squat about Colombia, they just know about Colombia from a websites or amigos.com a dating site.
When they get married to a Colombian they begin to experience all sort of problems because they never bothered to learn more about the other culture that is going to be a part of their lives. The potential “husband� spends a great deal of time on websites about Colombia to learn about Colombian women, as I have seen here for several months or close to a year. As you know many websites are filled with misinformation because the majority of the members who post do not know either!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

JohnNewYork says on Jul 26, 2007, 07:15:

The Colombian women will have the same problem when she comes to America -Culture Shock! True love can solve any problem.

Gator says on Jul 26, 2007, 07:20:

One word comment.

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡CUIDADO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Lowell says on Jul 26, 2007, 09:08:

I've been with my Colombia Gal now for 4 years. It's obvious to me that she's not a scammer. I do know that she'll lie at the blink of an eye and seems to sometimes make a game out of it. However, by being with a Colombian, I'm exposed to a whole lot of other Colombians and I have been living in Colombia for 2 yrs. Let me tell you there are some clever pro's out they that can really fool you, others and their families too. Many have secret agendas.

As crummy as my wife can be to me at times, I know that she's not with me just for money. My Social Security got canceled a couple of years back. It took 8 months for the problem to be straightened out.

During that time my wife did a sticthing called "Punto Cruz" (?) on towels. She did this for 6-8 hours a day with no complaints and made very little doing so. Going out was cut to a minmum, no new cloths......

I pretty much take care of her every need. She's the best dressed and jeweled babe in my barrio. However, she only get 50K pesos a week spending money and is happy with that. Much of that is often spent on her family.

It's the same way with my kids (stepson and step neice). They want for not and get some pesos now and then. But, never ask for money.

Walk softly. Observe a lot. Keep your mouth shut as much as possible. Question/study just about every fact /situation presented. Go way slow. Keep confrontations to a mimimum, so people don't know you're on to them. Learn and play the game. But never forget your game.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 09:11:

This is great entertainment. Sounds like you've already spent a lot of money on attorneys and PI's. I'd love to hear where your at in a couple of months and how much you've spent Remember, once the money train pulls out of the station poor Colombianas move on to the next gravey train. I hear this statement everyday from poor Colombianas, "I want to meet and date a gringo, ANY gringo, as long as he is a gringo!" These girls think all gringos are rich and have money to throw away. Stop sending money and see what happens. Let us know the outcome but I think most of us already have the answer. Good luck...........

RumRonRum

droble77 says on Jul 26, 2007, 09:21:

Dude,

putting aside the comments and warnings above, can I suggest you vacation at San Andres? It's a nice island that's part of Colombia, probably not as many interesting things to do as Aruba or Curacao but the beaches are good. Santa Marta (at the Colombian coast) has great beaches, and then there's Cartagena which doesn't have nice beaches but is touristy, the old part of the town is a lot like Old San Juan in Puerto Rico or Old Havana in Havana, Cuba. I don't think she'll need a passport to visit any of these places.

May I also suggest that you spend a few days with her where she lives so you can get to know her family and friends. I find it strange that you would get so fixated on helping this girl when you don't know much about her. Have you ever even been to Colombia before? If not, I really think you need to spend at least 4 days with her at her home before taking off to a Caribbean vacation. . . although if you don't speak Spanish fluently, I'm not sure how much you'll get out of it.

Also, why get into all these immigration/passport headaches for a girl you hardly know? Like I said, you have two nice options in the Colombian coast plus the island of San Andres, that's a perfect workaround.

As for the other comments, I think you should listen very carefully. First of all, regarding the issue of prostitution: it's VERY common in Colombia and it comes in a full spectrum of shapes and forms, something I'm not going to get into here. Furthermore, because it's so common, it's not considered such a big deal. And even with the "good girls" there's a lot of sexual shenanigans going on (friends with benefits, infidelity, etc.). Why do you think there's so many beautiful women in Colombia? Trust me, it ain't just the altitude and climate! :-))

So I wouldn't worry or care all that much whether she's prostituted in the past or is a "party girl." My main concern would be: how reliable is she? how trustworthy? what kind of return of investment (ROI) are you getting? is it the sex? the companionship? Remember, there are THOUSANDS of Colombian girls that can give you sex and companionship. . . and likely with less headaches and less $$!

I'm sure you think about your financial investments very carefully. Of course, you're totally free to spend and waste your disposable income (this BETTER be disp. income we're talking about here!!) any way you like but don't you think you should evaluate this girl a little more carefully?

My advice to you is to treat this like a fling, a fun experience. Approach with caution if you're thinking of getting serious. Anything is possible, I'll grant you that, but the odds are DEFINITELY AGAINST YOU that this will work out into something that will give you long-term happiness.

Also, make an honest appraisal of your psychological state. Many men fall into this fantasy of helping or saving some poor third world girl who will return the favor with true love, undying loyalty, wedded bliss, blah blah. Unfortunately, that is extremely rare in this world and in fact it's more likely the old adage of "no good deed goes unpunished" will kick in with these kinds of scenarios.

JohnNewYork says on Jul 26, 2007, 09:31:

I suggest you keep spending your money. So what if she is using you! Enjoy the game you only live once.

slguy says on Jul 26, 2007, 11:08:

It's pretty plain that deathnova was looking for someone to make him feel better about his, ummm, novia. Aside from saying that mariage isn't in the cards (for now), he has rejected all input/advice.

If denial is the place he is most comfortable, let him stay there. We all learn better from experience than from reading, right?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:10:

slguy,

Actually, I was just looking for some insight on the Colombian passport process ;). On that subject, she did receive her passport today.

My employment prevents me from entering Colombia on most any circumstance. I'm afraid I can't be more specific.

rumronrum,

It's been about four months now. American women do the same, so what's the point?

rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:38:

Hola deathnova,

Your story is so sad and strange I don't believe its true. You've hired legal aid, private investigators and who knows what else and you've never been to Colombia. You ask for advice from members on this forum but your responses state you have many professionals working for you. Heck, why ask anyone on this site if your paying for professional advice? You can't visit due to your super secret career. Now that's really funny. Those who are in the know could not even state that. Good luck and I think you should publish your book!

This has been entertaining!

RumRonRum

vicshere says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:42:

RRR i agree with you this story is full crap

listo

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:47:

rumonrum,

My employer specifically bars me from visiting certain countries due to the supposed risks associated. That's not exactally James Bond stuff. As previously mentioned, I am an official of sorts so I have rules to follow (I also own two small corporations which accounts for my expendable revenue). My job is not secret, I simply wish to not mention the nature in order to protect my employer and it's reputation.

The attorney in Panama was hired at cost due to the family referral and was retained for no more than about a week or two. The U.S. attorney is $300/hr ($125/hr for paralegals, eg. for paperwork) so i'm not trying to burn cash on random semi-important questions that could easily be answered by fellow lay persons. I do not have an on call legal staff or anything of that sort.

The advice here is much more candid and unofficial. An attorney will be very matter of fact and state opinions that are centered around fact and knowledge of my situation. No attorney will give the kind of advice that is being given here except where hard facts come into play.

I just want to be clear that I did not ask any question pertaining to my relationship with her nor am I seeking reassurance. The story unfolded only as a result of your (collective) questions. Certainly this is all out of the norm but it's far from a wild story.

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:49:

"I am an official of sorts so I have rules to follow (I also own two small corporations which accounts for my expendable revenue)."

well, that rules out government work.......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

vicshere says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:52:

death you are very defensive of your story...good for you stick with it...it will make a great novel someday.....maybe that's what your doing here ...gathering material for your next novel...very good idea.....

listo

rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 13:56:

Are you at work now? You know the sort of offical status?

RumRonRum

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 14:53:

No, I am not at work now. I simply do not want my primary occupation to unfold through conversation and then end up having to answer to a superior as to why i'm on the internet talking about dating prostitutes.

My employer is aware of the situation and had an inquiry into the matter. They went on to inform me that it was "OK" for now but that my position would be temporarily suspended should we become engaged.

vicshere says on Jul 26, 2007, 14:55:

this gets better by the post death....i cant wait for the telnovelia ending

listo

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 14:59:

At least you think my life's exciting, for what that's worth. I'm not here, however, to entertain you.

rumronrum says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:27:

This subject has run its course! Good-bye............

RumRonRum

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:27:

That is WAY TOO MUCH DRAMA for me.....i would have bailed a long time ago....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

JohnNewYork says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:37:

This sounds like 007. If you are in Panama you can legally buy a second passport. Also ST. Kitts will do the same. Use the internet to do your research or ask your lawyer.

RAAAY says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:37:

.....better than a movie.........Deathnova.....your'e full of shite..........I imagine you are one of the idiots Peter bounced off the site..........re-incarnated under a different name and creating this friggin God awful stupid story.........................All these lawyers....Private dicks......secret occupation ( brrrrrrrrrr )...........The only possible way that this story of yours is true is if you yourself are a total and complete f--kin idiot.......which is it..?

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

ahda007 says on Jul 26, 2007, 15:46:

deathnova.
I admire you and I am sure many of us that have read this also have expirience similar encounter. At least I have. As a matter of fact, I have married a Colombiana, and Divorced her 2 years later due to my insecurity. The funny thing is... I am still chatting and missing her this past 2 years. She on the other hand felt the same for me. We have decided to give ourselves another 4 years before we unite...... Anyway, my point here is. Not all colombianas are there for gringo's money.... there is always exceptions. You are your best judgement!!!

deathnova says on Jul 26, 2007, 16:07:

JohnNewYork,

I can physically enter Colombia at anytime I wish, but it would not be legal. With that said, i'm clearly not going to buy a passport. My business in Panama was official so I was permitted to enter for a limited time as defined by my visa. I could not return on pleasure without specific approval (which I also have to obtain for Aruba, more so a formality since it's Dutch controlled).

ahda007,

Thank you for your kind regards, good luck to you.

RAAAY says on Jul 26, 2007, 16:21:

...............Oh Lord.................gimmie a bucket

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

BAQ says on Jul 27, 2007, 09:53:

DEATHNOVIA - OK OK OK, WE ARE ALL WRONG AND YOU ARE CORRECT.

There are no problems, it was all a misunderstanding, she will have no problems, JUST KEEP PAYING HER WAY AND YOU WILL BE FINE.

One final thought '--- ARUDA, let me repeat this A R U BA. humm, seem to recall something about this place being a HOT SPOT for americans because you can get drugs very easily AND, OH DID I MENTION PROSTITUTES very cheap.

My crystal ball says, SHE IS THINKING, get the gringo to help get me my visa to ARUBA, PAY FOR THE PLANE TICKET, once there, I can dump his stupid ass, overstay and START HOOKING until I get thrown out, JUST LIKE PANAMA !!!!

Do what you want, listen to us, dont listen to us, but remember YOU JUMPED ON HERE AND WANTED ADVICE, well you got it, and not just from one person, so when EVERYONE is yelling FIRE, it is safe to assume the building is burning.

Semper Fidelis !

deathnova says on Jul 27, 2007, 18:49:

BAQ,

Aruba was my idea, interesting theory though. In the event that she did try anything deviant on a visa that I procured on her behalf I would personally ensure that she is deported by any means necessary. Assuming you're correct it would be a pretty poorly thought out plan on her part.

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 27, 2007, 18:54:

i dont think they have recovered the body of that missing US teenager, yet, either.....might be a good place to bring the old lady if things are not going well...or the old man if he has lots of $$$.,..me, i keep my money invested in PBH Gringo $$$......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

deathnova says on Jul 27, 2007, 19:33:

LOL..

gold digger says on Jul 29, 2007, 22:07:

Sounds similar to my Russian girlfriend that I had. I cut off the money and damn did things get quiet. lol
I also emptied my wallet once to a big brown eyed peruvian but she was worth every soles. :) I later found out she had a boyfriend on the side.
My fiance (USA) ran off with another guy after 3 years of us being together. Worked out good though because she wanted us to move to Canada.
If your going to be shafted, might as well be with a hot S. American girl. :-)
I say live and learn!

But I did try to get a job once and was declined because I had been to S. America within the past 3 years. Never could figure that one out!

Aaron21 says on Jul 29, 2007, 22:45:

You said it would be "illegal to enter Colombia" - were you deported from Colombia? Lolololol - that would be a first! As Clavo stated, you are not U.S. government (outside work) -and I do not know any country where it is illegal to go to Colombia. This sounds more like a law school question on international law that was written by someone who audited the classes. Carry on.

deathnova says on Aug 4, 2007, 21:00:

I'm not sure how Clavo became an authority on whether or not i'm U.S. government. Since declaring contact with my novia i've been conveniently excluded from all work in Colombia and been told "NO" on traveling there on personal business, hence the Aruba plan.

Miguel_Clavo says on Aug 4, 2007, 21:06:

its called conflict of interest,,,,,really simple...government interests vs employee interests....if you were a govt employee you would know what i know about what is drilled into every civil servant.....not an expert at all...that stuff is elementary, my dear Watson.....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

deathnova says on Aug 4, 2007, 21:11:

I understand the reason why completely, I just find it amusing in a twisted way that someone way up top is probably thinking i'll try to pass classified information or grant her asylum (which would work for about an hour before someone of more significant authority overturned the decision, but can we say international incident?)

Miguel_Clavo says on Aug 4, 2007, 23:28:

to be honest with you i wasnt even thinking in that direction, but time has shown us over and over again what some people will do for that four letter word "love"....jajajja...but i hope things work out for you......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

MaSep says on Aug 18, 2007, 18:54:

Hi guys!
I just found this place searching about tips for my interview k1, and I won´t say any thing about the hole deathnova case.
I think many guys here have said truly things.
I´m engaged with an american gorgeous man, and he is the love of my life, he told me that before meeting me he met few other girls in here all of them asking him for money (for their poor¨¨ families, for their terrible diseases etc...) I´m not an native english speaker but BULLSHIT!!! many of them want money.

I think is a good idea to prove if the girl is really in love with you is stop sending any money unless you are 110% sure she is not a fake.

Here ther is thousands beautiful girls, but have first a deep look where your putting your heart, and your wallet. Have a look of her family where she lives what education she has, ask her about her last relation ships before well you all know this but just in case.
I´m not saying that all of thouse poor girls all are prostitutes, but carefull!

hope every thing gets on well for you

aracne says on Sep 18, 2007, 08:12:

Long discussion for a short question. Forget about the possibility to obtain for your friend a new visa: one of the requirements of any government when you are applying for a visa is to declare if she or he has ever been deported. Your girlfriend's case shows simply that your legal advisory in Panama was, at least, very harmful for her intentions to leave the country again.

As a colombian woman, take my word on this: If she is relying on your economic support, that is the worst way to initiate (or maintain) a relationship. Don't worry, if she really is a hard working person (does not seem so) she does not need your money, just your support. Help is one thing, sustain is another and very different.

RussianFred says on Sep 18, 2007, 09:37:

This remind me of a rap song "I'm in love with a stripper".

I dated a hooker during college, she was a knockout! I want to marry her but she refused to stop doing tricks.

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

john_stark says on Sep 18, 2007, 21:00:

Was she at least going to give you a discount rate? Maybe she wasn't sure she was going to get all your business?

deathnova says on Oct 28, 2007, 00:36:

Just an update for all the naysayers, the visa was issued: 30 days, multiple entry when traveling together. The Dutch consulate in Cali wanted a copy of my passport and "cedula" (naturally, they received a driver's license) and were happy after that.