panama here we come

sloopskipper says on Jun 4, 2008, 06:28:

I think that iniative has been underway for some time, from this end also, along with electric lines, and gas(?) transmission pipeline.

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2008, 06:38:

That's been underway for like 20 years! Is it for real this time? If it really happens, it'll:
a) Probably destroy a lot of nature in one of the most ecodiverse areas of the world
b) Open up a whole new route for travelers

Poor but snappy

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Bill Turley says on Jun 4, 2008, 06:50:

Maybe the Pan American Hwy will really span the Americas. Too bad about the ecosystem of the Darien though. Maybe it will reduce the haven for terrorists however.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2008, 06:51:

That's true, it might drive out the coke dealers and make the area safer. I do hope they try their best to minimize ecological effects though.

Poor but snappy

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gorgonabob says on Jun 4, 2008, 07:09:

the plans been underway for 80 years i think. of course its inevitable.. that there is not a road connection uniting several hundred million people is pretty stupid. especially when we are only talking about 150 km or so...

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sloopskipper says on Jun 4, 2008, 07:21:

If you search www.prensa.com I think you will find some articles about it, in Spanish, along with recent new police deployment in the darien.

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morphus says on Jun 4, 2008, 07:56:

Link?

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morphus says on Jun 4, 2008, 07:58:

I would like driving directions from Indiana USA to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080201030508AAiDXom

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gorgonabob says on Jun 4, 2008, 08:06:

the article appeared in the El Tiempo today... the delivered edition, have not checked on line.

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sloopskipper says on Jun 4, 2008, 08:07:

morphus says on Jun 4, 2008, 07:56: flag

"Link?"

?

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morphus says on Jun 4, 2008, 08:20:

Oh...El Tiempo. A 100 million bucks for Ingrid too :)

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rocinante says on Jun 4, 2008, 08:39:

I'll believe it when I believe it. Maybe there's not really all that much of a demand or ROI - hence the 100 years talking about it?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Mononoke28 says on Jun 4, 2008, 08:48:

How safe will it be though? I've never been but I've heard that it's not the safest place to be right now? Any comments?

Diana

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adrimm says on Jun 4, 2008, 17:05:

It is one of the last remote areas.. wouldn't it be cool if instead they had a car-train, like the chunnel? Then you could drive onto the train, go upstairs and enjoy the view?

1) It would minimize fumes & exhaust (becuase we all know that Latin America is horrible at enforcing air-quality regs
2) allow more efficient (& safer) shipping
3) allow people without cars to ride it
4) be easier to keep clean (ie manage pest-type hitchikers)
5) allow people with cars to still pass through

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quantum says on Jun 4, 2008, 17:54:

If and when it does happen and it probably is inevitable especially with allthe worldwide unification movements going on, it certainly wont be a 10 hr trip from Panama C. to Medellin in any case. I just did the Puerto Olbadia to Capurnaga to Turbo route coming from Panama. We shot up the coast to Monteria, Las Cobeñas and finally to Cartagena but the Turbo to Medellin route on a new road still takes about 9 hrs. So factor that into your equation. How long Panama C. to the border? Its a hike, believe me. It will definately be convenient but at what price? I kind of like the idea of leaving it to nature and the indians. Theze Costeñans make a mess out of any environment.......

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sloopskipper says on Jun 4, 2008, 17:56:

It woud sure make moving to Colombia a "little" bit easier.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 4, 2008, 21:35:

It'll be the deforestation super-highway, if it ever happens.

Look at that area on Google Earth sometime. Everywhere there's a road the mountains are stripped to dirt.

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morphus says on Jun 5, 2008, 04:16:

Deforestation? So what? We are suppose to worry about 54 miles after plowing through 29,800 miles?

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adrimm says on Jun 5, 2008, 17:52:

It is possibley *the* most biodiverse areas of the entire planet. "What" means the extinction of anything (and in this case maybe even anyone) who relies on the forest to house them, feed them and generally survive off of.

Deforestation would mean extinctions of species found only there, endangerment of many others and the continued loss of human cultural diversity if you have still-traditional indigenous groups forced to leave their homeland.




You can read more about habitat loss here: http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/tmorris/elements_of_ecology/chapter_28.ht...

As for basically ousting indigenous people from their homes.. well thats no small thing. Sure the people might adapt, but their culture/language may become that much more endangered.

Here are some langauge hotspots in the world - there are more actually -including some in Northern Colombia I'd be pretty shocked to find if language loss weren't connected with resource expoitation activities.



Why does that matter? Well this article sums it up nicely:

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=874

or

"Minority languages are being increasingly replaced by various politically, economically, or socio-culturally dominant ones. Every two weeks the last fluent speaker of a language passes on and with him/her goes literally hundreds of generations of traditional knowledge encoded in these ancestral tongues. Nearly half of the world’s languages are likely to vanish in the next 100 years."

from: http://www.livingtongues.org/ (where you can read more)

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morphus says on Jun 5, 2008, 18:26:

Languages? It does'nt matter. Humans are on the way out within the next 1000 years anyway.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 6, 2008, 07:34:

i'm not sure about the number of years involved. but apparently, the u.s. has paid panama and colombia to finish that work, three times. and still nothing.

i wouldn't look for the accomplishment of that for another 20 years. the area is infested with bad guys and indigenous tribes and, as well is a huge wildlife refuge...so, it's not like makin a road from cali to buenaventura. it'll not only take a huge inventory of heavy equipment plus manpower to do the work, it will require a huge military pre-prep and ongoing security operation to even think of pulling it off.

dwmte

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Bill Turley says on Jun 6, 2008, 08:42:

The auto train is really a good idea. It could greatly reduce impact on the area

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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morphus says on Jun 6, 2008, 08:44:

And get blown up too.

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Bill Turley says on Jun 6, 2008, 08:58:

Obviously security would be a consideration, defeat of the FARC a precursor

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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dwmte7 says on Jun 8, 2008, 08:57:

personally, i wish they'ld just leave well enough alone. the darien is one of the very last truly original jungle santuaries left in the world. once a road goes through, we can forget that.

dwmte

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morphus says on Jun 8, 2008, 18:09:

It does'nt bother me. I think they should just plow though it. Progresss has to be made. It does'nt make sense. Theres a canal but no road.

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adrimm says on Jun 8, 2008, 22:07:

Sea-shipping is actually more economical than overland trucking (and once the infrastructure is in rail is also more economical than overland trucking - imho progressive).

With fuel costs rising it might make more sense to somehow improve the panama canal (twin?) to improve marine routes or put in rail. Can you imagine how epic the journey could be?

imho given the ecological sensitivity of the area (it is clearly of global significance), I think that the costs of rail could be born out by more nations than just Panama, Colombia & the US (the road crew).

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