Pablo Escobar a despicable sonamanbiche or not?

litost says on Sep 27, 2004, 10:52:

Elmo, I don't recall anybody blaming Pablo for all of Colombia's problems, nothing is so black and white.

Nobody denies he probably did some good deeds in his life and was very generous towards poor people, but he was also responsible for ordering the bombing of a commercial airline which killed dozens of people in flight, among many other "smaller" acts which probably amount to hundreds if not thousands more violent deaths. This in itself is very very bad, but maybe even worse in the long run for Colombia is the way all the dirty money and sudden rise in power of illegal activities infiltrated an already corrupt socio-political system.

How can we NOT condemn his acts and make sure kids don't end up looking up to him as some kind of hero, what would these kids all grow up to be in that case???

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel says on Sep 27, 2004, 11:21:

Pablo Murder is murder anyway you cut it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Sep 27, 2004, 11:21:

elmo,

You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to portray a ruthless narcoterrorist like Pablo Escobar as 'not such a bad guy after all'. Pablo Escobar was without a doubt one evil son of a bitch. The evil he did greatly outweighs any good deed he might have done.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 11:35:

sorry guys i'm still not feeling that hate. that fat bandeja paisa loving pablo escobar did nothing to me. i wish he had build all those homes for the poor in la guajira.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 11:40:

my wife also hates pablo because during those years she could not leave her "poblado" hood to go and party until late at night. all those pris pris kids where not allowed out.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

litost says on Sep 27, 2004, 11:51:

no surprise for some bizarre reason it's not all that surprising you sympathize with El Patron, elmo...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 12:07:

Never mind that tasteless white arepa con queso eating y chocolate caliente drinking Pablo. Listen, those that doubted my burro stories, please check this out from an independent german research team, about the sexual activities of young adolescents in Colombia.
http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/COLOMBIA.HTM

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caslug says on Sep 27, 2004, 12:10:

You should read up more on Pablo... Elmo, are you saying that you admire him or just don't think he was all that bad? If you admire him then that's odd, considering he never help you or your village out. Sure he help SOME poor, but he hurt poor too. If you don't think he's all that bad, then you'll just need to read up more on him and come to you own conclusion.

Pablo, wasn't robin hood, yes he gave money to the poor, BUT he view the poor the same way, other rich/powerful high class Colombian did, they were expendable workforce to him. He used them as his trigger pullers and line workers, he himself killed/torture many of his own employees. Yeah, they got jobs/paid, but also got killed or jailed. There are some people that made an interesting comment about him. If Pablo, wasn't as egotistically as he was, he couldn't have lived an rich, quite life under gov't protection. The window of opp't for this was after he cut a deal w/ the gov't, but before he killed two rivals in his/gov't prison. He had the flaws that dictators and tyrannt are cursed with. He felt he could get away w/ anything because he was "powerful" and he stopped listening to rational advice. A rational man in his position would have cut deal AND honor a deal w/ the gov't in return for keeping most of your money. Look at the Kennedy Clan in the US, they made much of their money smuggling booze duringt he 1920's, but went legit, same thing w/ the Branson clan(they now own Virgin records, Virgin Airlines, AND Seagrams liquour). Both those clans used criminal enterprise to make money to do bigger things, beside every smart/educated person know that if you want to be a BIG crook, you don't do criminal stuff, you become CEO of company or a politican. That's where the big money is, did you know that Pablo and his friends, couldn't launder their money fast enough. They had to keep as cash buried in the ground or in their house. So they couldn't let the money MAKE money for them, via financial investment and such.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 12:31:

I’m saying that he did nothing to or for me or anyone I know, to give me solid cause to hate his fat ass. At contrary it was people like him that gave a little taste of their cash to my dad for our very productive lands which made our escape possible from the misery we were living. sure I wish I had his balls and good business sense to make all that money, but I’m not a ruthless guy like he was, the worst I do is get into stupid fist fight and hope they never go beyond that. I’m really just a lover not a fighter.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caslug says on Sep 27, 2004, 13:23:

He probably did more harm than good... Pablo wasn't the only drug leader, there's other, BUT he was the face/spokesman for the drug cartel. That alone, probably scared away tourisism and investment opp't for colombia, which in turn would have help colombia economy which in turn would have provide more jobs for poor people. Look at now, colombia still can't get rid of that reputation/perception. International travellers are still afraid to go to Colombia as opposed to Peru(which also has coca production). Because Peru doesn't have that rep. Which makes it logical that most law-abiding colombians "hate" pablo for giving their country such a bad rep. Just like Osama bin Laden, gives Muslims a bad rep.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

madman says on Sep 27, 2004, 14:11:

I live in the USA and you can thank Pablo for making everyone around the world afraid to go to your country.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Sep 27, 2004, 14:25:

"I live in the USA and you can thank Pablo for making everyone around the world afraid to go to your country."

badabrt,

Don't exaggerate! If everyone in the world was afraid to go to Colombia, then how come this website exists? The biggest stars in latin music always make sure to go to Colombia. Now Colombia is even becoming a hub for international telenovelas produced by NBC/Telemundo!

I think thatsaying that Colombia has a bad rep is completely discriminatory and unfair. As if Colombia were the only place in the world that has problems.

ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

villdkatta says on Sep 27, 2004, 15:03:

Well... Elmo, I'd like to see you make Pablo "squeal like a pig", let's put it that way. :-0

Seriously, I'm going to read "Killing Pablo" as was suggested in another thread and then I can form an intelligent opinion of him, as most of my knowledge about him is all heresay, but I don't respect anyone like that.

Take care,

Kim

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caslug says on Sep 27, 2004, 15:31:

Colombia's bad rap... Is it fair? Of course not, but who said life is fair? I agree that for the average tourist, COL is no more "dangerous" than Peru, VEN, Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, etc., as long the tourist stay in the "safe areas". I said it earlier, drugs are grown/produced in other countries beside COL, but thanks to Pablo and the guerillas, Col has a bad rap internationally. It slowly changing because of websites like this that helps correct that image. Perception is more powerful than the truth. BTW, when I talk w/ people here in the states about COL, i tell them COL is a good tourist option(much better value than Cancun for example. When they bring up drugs, bombing, & crime, I tell them if they stay in the "tourist/safe" areas, they have nothing to worry about. I got two of friends to travel to COL later this year. The US State Dep't still recommends that americans DON'T go to Colombia, but Cancun or Mexico City is OK.
So yeah, I would say that Col has a unjustify bad rap.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 16:21:

I don’t recall tourism going down in NYC after the showing of “the godfather� or “goodfellas� etc. People did not visit Colombia because some guy name Pablo was raising a little hell. Most just don’t like going to third world countries, they don’t offer the same kind of security and comfort they are a costume to. And while those respectable law abiding politicians continue stealing all that money it will remain a third world country.
Law abiding Colombians are all assholes and fascist; they remind me of Giuliani our ex -mayor in New York City. I have a problem with people who enjoy imposing their authority on others, live and let live that’s my motto. You don’t like the stuff Pablo was selling, then go and drink a bottle of aguardiente and mess up your liver, instead.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 27, 2004, 17:20:

Nice troll, Elmo Elmo, my friend, next on your list of deliberately provocative statements to get some attention I suggest you try, "The FARC are just true communist brothers striving to create a workers' paradise." Then, after that one, float, "The AUC are just some good-ole boys trying to protect their farms from robbers and other mean people," to see how the board responds.

Stick with the mule-shagging tales. You'll get a lot more mileage.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 18:12:

To be honest Mr. Hollywood I⢠/ To be honest Mr. Hollywood I’m real tired today, reliving some of the awful shit I experience as a kid zapped the energy outta me. My contempt for the way I get treated by Colombians is getting on my nerve. A couple day ago I go to the consulate in NYC to try to get a “cedula� so I could get a Colombian passport so I could enter Colombia because I wont be allowed back anymore with just my American passport. The damn elitist Colombian broad just looked at me up and down (giving me that, what the hell you doing Indio look, that I get from them all the time) and dismissed my papers. So legally I’m not a freaking Colombian, so as far as I’m concerned they could all jump in a lake for all I care and I wish Pablo would come back and haunt their freaking ass. I can’t believe that I’m more Colombian than all of them in the consulate put together but I’m not allowed in. My only way in is to go to Venezuela (I have dual Colombian and Venezuelan citizenship, most guajiros do) and then sneak into my own country just like freaking Mexican crossing the border illegally. Now isn’t that a kick in the balls.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 27, 2004, 18:48:

I can certainly understand your resentment, Elmo, but you won't find me saying anything nice about Pablo Escobar, my father-in-law's murderer. I must agree though that evil has many faces and Pablo's was just one of them.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

litost says on Sep 27, 2004, 19:07:

Why won't you be able to enter Colombia with the American passport, that's strange???

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2004, 19:38:

Litos, if you have dual citizenship (colomnbian/usa) as I do, you could no longer enter Colombia with just your American passport. You must enter with a Colombian passport and cedula. I don’t have either/neither. My Colombian passport is almost 40 years old and I left Colombia too young for a cudula. My parents never bother to register me, I was born like Jesus Cristo in a farm surrounded by goats and donkeys, and we had no freaking legal documents in my village. So I’m screw, and that woman in el consulado was of no help, but that does not surprise me.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vladimiro says on Sep 27, 2004, 22:55:

Pablo Escobar Escobar was a young pot-head thug with a car theft ring when he met a drug lord that had recently started exporting Cocain to the US. Soon after the drug lord's customers were astonished when the car thief informed them that the drug lord was dead, and that he was now in charge. Escobar was extraordinarily ruthless, even for a drug lord. He became one of the world's wealthiest people, and whats alarming to me is that he achieved it all with nothing but ruthlessness. Others manage cartels like CEOs of corporations, have business skills, mainframe computers, monitor the DEA, etc. Escobar was more successful by just k'illing everyone. I believe the murder rate in Medellin reached 30,000 a year during Escobar's heyday.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 28, 2004, 05:03:

I got to share this. My mother-in-law “la vieja copetua� is coming from Medellin to visit us, well, to visit her daughter here in NYC. She’s going to pass out when she sees where her lovely daughter now lives. From “el poblado� to Harlem. Hey, I’m a freaking commie and prefer living among my poor people, except when I move to Colombia for good then I‘m taking my ass where you guys live, in those fancy neighborhoods.
My mother-in-law (just a couple years older than me) was asking my wife suggestion as to what to bring my daughter and 19 year son. My son wants a t-shirt with a big picture of Pablo Escobar. My handsome young son has never been to Medellin, he will have a hard time finding it on a map, barely speaks Spanish, but yet, him and all his friends, not all hoodlums, would love to get their hands on that t-shirt. I walk around with a picture of "Che" smoking a big Cuban cigar, but no way in hell I’m going to wear that in Miami with those crazy Cuban, Castro hating, criminals down there, here in NYC is the rage of the town, even black kids wear them and I’m sure they don’t have any idea who he was, except that Tyson has his picture tattooed on his abdomen. As far as my kid walking around with Pablo on his chest, he’s and adult and I can’t stop him. I see Italian kids walk around with a picture of John Gotti on their t-shirt and he was just a nickel and dime two bit hood.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

litost says on Sep 28, 2004, 05:51:

viejo corroncho, I still don't get why you can't enter Colombia just with your American passport, like any other american visiting the country?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 28, 2004, 06:19:

Viejo corroncho jejeje. Check this out. All Colombians that became USA citizen from 1991 to present must enter Colombia as Colombians with passport and cedula. Because I was a lazy sonamanbiche I never bother with applying for USA citizenship until 1997 thought I was already here nearly 40 years. My Colombian passport has no cedula number so I could not renew. As soon as I got my gringo passport and finding out that Colombian women were easy (watch them all hang me by my balls now), especially if you were carrying that blue (usa), I immediately started traveling back every year, sometime up to three times in one year, with absolutely no problem. On Jan. 2002 the cachaco in immigration in Bogotá, after I showed him my USA passport and when he read that I was born in Colombia, asked to see my Colombian passport instead. I did a double take like “what you talking about Willis?� He made me read a paper they had place in front of the counter stating that all Colombians with dual citizenship must have Colombian passport and cendula (I never had a cedula) . I returned less than a month ago and acted stupid (not hard to do) and pretended that I was not aware of the new law. The freaking asshole told me, bull shit. You were told already. And next time I will no be allowed in with out Colombian papers.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 28, 2004, 07:32:

I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year... That sucks dude. 3rd world bureaucrats are some of the worst. I know it's never this simple but it seems contradictory that they can force you to acquire Colombian papers because you were born in Colombia but then refuse you those same papers because you can't prove you were born in Colombia.

Did you actually try going to the DAS while you were here in-country? Or are you dealing with the Colombian Consolate in the USA?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oldbongo says on Sep 28, 2004, 07:52:

the oldgringo suggests.. that this will require a little patiencia,

you write a letter to the consulate,outlining your
situation,(just the facts,all the facts),and ask
them to tell you how to get the cedula, certificada nacimiento etc.
do this in duplicate, and send to two different consular offices,
NYC & washington for example, and compare their response.
then you follow procedure,...you'll get it.
you are not the first one in this position.

please do it man,.... you gotta nice lunch waiting..

you can rest assured that the das agents in cartagena
seem to be a lot more laid back than those in bogota,
and they can't send you back so fast. ...suerte...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 28, 2004, 08:38:

guys, first I had my mother and uncle go all over barranquilla and la guajira trying to locate my birth certificate, it turns out I was never register. All I had was my baptism documents. Yeah me, some freaking catholic, I’ve not set foot in a church for over 40 years. Anyway, they found some papers and sent them to Bogotá, a few weeks later documents were sent back to Barranquilla with some seals and very official looking certificate. I picked up those papers and last Thursday I go to my consulate in NYC thinking all I needed was proof of blood type, 3 photos, and those documents, punto. Before I went there I wrote to the consulate en Washington, Boston, Chicago, Miami and NYC, telling them my sad story. They all told me to contact the NYC branch. A couple days later a woman from the NYC consulate actually calls me, here at work, and told me to come in and I should have no problem. I got this fancy colombian last name that makes them think I ‘m from old money. Little that they know is that my Indian name is Uruak so when she saw me in person that broads jaw dropped to the floor and immediately got very business like and told me that I was missing more info, which could only be obtain in Colombia, to get someone over there to do it for me. Basically she was telling me to fuck off. I was really calm and told her to stick Colombia up her butt, I’m never going back. I was jus kidding of course. I’m going back even if I have to walk the Venezuelan jungles into Colombia.

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oldbongo says on Sep 28, 2004, 09:38:

stand in there....again elmo, go back and get it straight..

get it in writing ...get the names....smile

sounds like you have the basics covered,

you know, the devil is in the details....

persistencia...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

feamoda says on Sep 28, 2004, 23:28:

i think im gonna be hated for this elmo, im kinda on your side. i think pablo escobar wasnt a very bad person. though he DID murdered, kidnapped or watsoever, at least he didn't harm other people from other countries. unlike bush, who is responsible for all the happenings like the war, WHICH harmed a whole lot of poor citizens in Iraq...now WHICH DO U GUYS PREFER? a man who tortured his own people or a man who indirectly tortures and dictates the whole world??

Nada Pero Fea

Nada Pero Fea

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caslug says on Sep 29, 2004, 01:05:

Where do you get your facts, Faemoda? "pablo escobar wasnt a very bad person. though he DID murdered, kidnapped or watsoever, at least he didn't harm other people from other countries"

In 1989 , in an effort to kill...Cesar Gaviria, his(pablo) men planted a bomb on a Avianca Airliner, blowing it out of the sky. One hundred and ten people were killed, including two Americans. - Killing Pablo pg 59

So he did HARM people from other countries, there probably were some other nationality on that plane beside american & colombian. The bomber was a poor smuck who was told that when the plane takes off. Flip a switch to turn on a "tape recorder". Duh! So Pablo's wasn't above using the poor then throwing them away. So much for being protector of the poor.

Here's another of his act:

On 1/30/1993, a car bomb exploded in Bogota, blowing a crater several feet deep in the street and sidewalk and taking a savage bit out of a bookstore...Inside the store, crowds of CHILDREN and their parents had been buying school supplies for a new semester. Torn body parts were strewn about. In all 21 people were killed, 79 more injured...In a gutter running w/ blood.. the severed hand of a CHILD. - Ibid pg 167

Why compare Iraq(US Policy) to Pablo, doesn't make sense? One has nothing to do with another. If you want to discuss how screwy the US gov't is, then just start another thread.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

villdkatta says on Sep 29, 2004, 01:48:

Oh, give me a break, Fea, you're the person that said you wish you had more drug lords in your country (??) in another thread.

I agree with Cas; if you want to Bush-bash, go to another thread as it is irrelevant here.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

feamoda says on Sep 30, 2004, 06:48:

oh well!!! Point taken. I still think he's great.
Nada Pero Fea

Nada Pero Fea

0 funny, 0 helpful.

feamoda says on Sep 30, 2004, 07:17:

....to elmo... To elmo, sad childhood story. i think colombia needs more patriotic people like you. i guess then people would look at colombia in a more positive way. that's what i call the colombian spirit.
Nada Pero Fea

Nada Pero Fea

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Sep 30, 2004, 07:34:

Thanks sweetheart, but the last thing many Colombians, specially the once on this board, would call me is patriotic, more like resentful, spiteful sonamanbiche and wish I was not here to expose the other Colombia.
Colombia is really a cool place if you stay away from the pretentious, plastic crowds that is most Colombia middle and upper class, the regular Colombian are “mama gallo� pranksters, like to drink and chased broads around and treat all equally, and don't have maids.
Hey, just between you and me, but don’t let those upper class Colombian hear this, they hate Pablo, I still cant’ find a good reason to hate that cachaco bastard , and I like how he fought to the end to protect his family and that was the main reason he got cornered and killed

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringosalsero says on Sep 30, 2004, 08:35:

What is SONAMANBICHE? Is that spanglish or supposed to ....be "son of a bitch"?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

oldbongo says on Sep 30, 2004, 08:44:

it"s scottish...laddie read elmos name.....

y elmo...te adoro mucho...chow mein

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringosalsero says on Sep 30, 2004, 10:13:

No Scottish would be "lad of a bitch". nt

0 funny, 0 helpful.

madman says on Sep 30, 2004, 14:05:

Since you hate upper class Colombians Do the upper class have something against picking up items they drop on the floor? The last two times I’ve flown to BAQ I have seen people on the airplane either drop things like pillows and napkins and not pick them up o even throw stuff under their seat and the isle of the plane for the stewardess to pick up. Or maybe I’m crazy and just like watching these people too much.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel says on Oct 13, 2004, 02:12:

Envigado In case you are interested.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kernow62 says on Oct 13, 2004, 04:26:

dual citizenship My wife has dual citizenship USA/Colombian and she goes to Colombia all the time, she uses her US passport. The last time was 3 weeks ago. Am I missing something? She will be changing soon to dual US/UK citezenship and I don't expect any problems entering Colombia after the change either, It will just make working in Barcelona easier.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Oct 13, 2004, 07:21:

If she has a Colombian cedula with passport along with the USA passport, there is no problem. If she obtained her USA passport BEFORE 1991, she does not need a Colombian passport or cedula.
But, if she got her USA passport AFTER 1991 and DOES NOT have a Colombian passport and cedula. “Houston, we’ve GOT A PROBLEM!�

any colombianita willing to date me, IS UP TO NO GOOD

0 funny, 0 helpful.