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El turismo sexual en Cartagena sigue en auge

Here is a link to the old post
http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/el-turismo-sexual-en-cartagena-s...

There was a post I made, "El turismo sexual en Cartagena sigue en auge".
It was the title of an article on El Tiempo, and the post reported the article.

We were having a civil discussion on it. Rubito, Siv, Monpirri, Aaron and the other

And... BUM... gone!

It is the second time a post about sexual tourism is deleted. The other time happened with the post about the paracos targeting prepagos.
Why?

By robi666 on Apr 5, 2008, 01:37 in Friendly Talkzone.

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:38:

Uneasy argument on PBH?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:43:

It is a problem that needs to be addressed.
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041107/NEWS/411...
(An estimated 1,500 girls and boys work in Cartagena's sex industry. Over the last three years, Renacer has learned of girls as young as 7 and boys as young as 9 being sexually exploited)

http://www.gvnet.com/childprostitution/Colombia.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1138712.stm

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:48:

DD, it is a serious problem.

But, again, why the post was demoted?
I cannot believe Desideria or Colombiche did it.

Peter, can you explain? I asked about it the other time and you did not answer.
What's the point?

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:52:

Roberto: Post it again and put the word Gringo in it, then it may stay up.

(Example do Gringos contribute to this problem )

or this

( quien tiene la culpa ? que piensa las Gringos o los Colombianos ?

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Peter (Moderator) says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:52:

It's not deleted, just removed from the main listing: http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/el-turismo-sexual-en-cartagena-s...

I think you're right, I probably shouldn't have removed this one. Didn't get much sleep last night, sorry.

Poor but snappy

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:54:

Ok, Peter, tanks for the explanation. I saw that it went demoted and not deleted.
One is ok, twice... I was starting to worry that there was more about it...

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 01:57:

Roberto: Peter loves Colombia and it's people , he is bueno gente that why he started this website.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 02:35:

robi666 says,"Rubi and g_s, if you have time, try to have a look at the following documentary. You may realize that foreigners are an important part of the problem in Cartagena."

After watching the video my thoughts are that nothing will change in Colombia unless the government gets serious about convicting murderous criminals, taking them off the streets before they kill again, or are killed by avenging young killers.

Colombia has a culture of violence that needs to be addressed through social problems, respect for the law, strict inforcement of laws, and incarceration of criminals for extended sentences befitting their crimes.

The courts need to lock up the murderers so that Colombians can see that justice is being served by the courts, deterring victims from taking matters into their own hands, making murderers of themselves. It's a vicious cycle, with no end in sight.

For all the positive threads, posts, comments, about Colombia we must not forget that it is still a country rampant in violence, but Colombians on PBH don't like to hear about it.

Sorry, but them'z the facts in Colombia.

The young prostitute waiting for a gringo to come along, will just as quickly leave with a Colombian with money.... it's all about the money.

The Colombian government needs to address poverty, crime, lack of opportunites, education, ineffective court systems, corrupt officals, among many of its other problems.

You must seek the root of the problem if you truly want to address the real issues.

It's sad what happened to the two Italians tourist in Cartagena, all for a camera.

It's not a roses in Colombia, la violencia no da paz....la violencia sigue

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 02:38:

M_T, addressing poverty takes time. By the way, did you only see part one?

In the meantime, get the client of that girl and send him to jail for a couple of nights.

Monpirri, what can be easily done?

First of all, there are laws to enforce. That's to be done, no matter if on foreigners or Colombians. I do not even want to go into a stupid discussion about who's who. The accent of that particular El Tiempo article is on foreigners and this forum is mostly for foreigners. Let's begin with this.

Second, what we can do is to try to discriminate and fight people who promote such activities, no matter if on field or on a public forum on the Internet. No matter if they do it with economical returns or just for fun.

Third, never ever forget about it. Inform about this sad part of the story when talking about this beautiful country.

tomtom33 says on Apr 5, 2008, 05:23:

You seem to be forgetting that prostitution is legal in Colombia. You may not like or approve of it, but it is legal here. I personally think that prostitution should not be criminalized anywhere.

I do, however, strongly support the protection of children in all areas including labor laws and social safety netting. And I hold pimping in any form in low regard.

Colombia will eventually get what the people of Colombia want. As long as they have no respect for the law, there will be the chaos that exists today. I am fully aware that part of this problem is a dysfunctional legal system.

I don't have any answers. And my days of bucking things have passed. But I do intend to contribute economically to Colombia in my small way.

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 07:59:

Robi66, check out these clips.

Sex Slaves - Italy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do9KXid5vT0

Woman Forced to be Sex Slave

We can do something about this sex predators.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

tomtom33 says on Apr 5, 2008, 08:04:

Prostitution in no way is equal to sex slavery. Why is it that this topic always comes up when prostitution is discussed? There are very few pro-sexual predator people in the world even though there will always be sexual predators and victims. Existing laws can handle this problem.

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 08:12:

if the usa can pump 5 billion into colombia and fill it with militarized personel, you're telling me that they cannot pick off the f-ing child molesters?

and the colombian govn't needs to study the process of the netherlands if they want to continue to allow prostitution to be legal.

there are solutions. if people cannot put 2 and 2 together and put forth the effort, then it is just laziness on all parts.

god is in your head

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 08:26:

I say the foreigners who are promoting sex trade, sex tourism, child prostitution in Colombia here online need to be investigated, I know at least one or two here on pbh.

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 08:28:

i believe there is a bureau for that, mon.

god is in your head

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 08:31:

Tom, the girl in the documentary is a poor underage girl. And the article I post talks about girls between 14 and 18. The article did not cited LDV.
But, you have to admit that sex tourism in large scale, like in Cartagena, easily bring on other social and cultural consequences, especially in situations exploiting gender, age, social and economic inequalities in sex tourism destinations.

Monpi, which is your point in putting a video about sex slavery? If your point is showing that there are problems in Italy too, you could have come up with something more on theme.
There are still cases of child prostitution in Italy, like I guess, in the US or everywhere in Europe.

But the most part of the millions of tourist reaching Italy every year do not travel for sex.
And that's not the case of Cartagena, or Cuba, or Thailand.

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 09:14:

Robi66, I was just showing one way we can deal with that crap and by the way I want to work with you on this topic.

Have a nice day,
Monpirri

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

tomtom33 says on Apr 5, 2008, 09:22:

Que pena, Robi. I usually never watch any of the videos posted.

I lived at ground zero(Laguito) for sex tourism for 4 years. Granted I am not a late-night person, and I use no drugs including alcohol and nicotine. I have seen virtually no problem with underage girls although some are certainly there. But I am not really able to make sound judgments about a culture that I do not know thoroughly.

I can tell you that the police are very aware of the prohibition against prostitution for anyone under 18 in Colombia. And they actively enforce those laws in Laguito. They visited my apartment one afternoon to check the IDs of 2 girls that had come to visit me. They told me that someone had called them to report me entering my building with 2 younger-looking girls. I had been dating one of those girls for several months. All of her family including her parents had been in my apartment for gatherings previously.

I certainly will grant that prostitution can and does bring problems. These problems can, however, be minimized short of criminalization of prostitution..

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 09:52:

Robi666, again I agree with you 100%
"First of all, there are laws to enforce. That's to be done, no matter if on foreigners or Colombians. I do not even want to go into a stupid discussion about who's who. The accent of that particular El Tiempo article is on foreigners and this forum is mostly for foreigners. Let's begin with this.

Second, what we can do is to try to discriminate and fight people who promote such activities, no matter if on field or on a public forum on the Internet. No matter if they do it with economical returns or just for fun.

Third, never ever forget about it. Inform about this sad part of the story when talking about this beautiful country."

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Cerealkiller says on Apr 5, 2008, 12:29:

I think its a very sad story. Last time I was in Cartagena was in 2006 and the levels of poverty I saw just outside the city were just heart wrenching. The fact that prostitution is legal in Colombia does not make it any more acceptable. Don't get me wrong, I am not a hardcore moralist here, but how many of these girls do it because earning a living on their backs is great fun? I honestly don't think too many. I would not have any problem with prostitution if these girls and young guys had the tools to make something of themselves (access to education, a decent roof over their heads, 3 full meals a day...like prepagos for instance). But as long as these people keep resorting to prostitution as a result of misery, then anyone who pays for sex with them is blatantly exploiting a vulnerable person.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 12:42:

It is very hard to judge Ck. I am always undecided myself.

Actually, I absolutely love TomTom character. He does in a way and present it in a way that makes thing acceptable. I don't know him personally, but I judge him on the way he posts on here.

On the other hand, I absolutely hate the way some people act. I heard some slimy Italians talking, I've seen some Americans flock around, and I absolutely hate the arrogant way they behave. They do not consider a prostitute a human being. And, yes, you feel that they are exploiting vulnerable persons.

Those kind of sexual activities are to be consumed with privacy and discretion. When they are openly publicized to be converted in a movement, there we have all kind of problems and low life behaviors associate to prostitution.

Monpirri, thanks for your clarification. I know that you are a sensitive person. And, you are right, we have to fight it in everyday life and even on this board.

Cerealkiller says on Apr 5, 2008, 12:52:

Wel Robi, I think if they were banging estrato 6 putas everything would be ok in my book. On one hand, it would be some expensive nookie, and they would look like desperate assholes, so thats good material for some jokes. But on the other hand, if the prostitute is in a position to say "yes, I am going to do this for a year and then get a real job as an executive assistant, teacher, nurse, taxi driver, librarian etc etc OR I love hooking so much that Ill just do this and the open my own brothel with putas who love hooking too" then awesome, because it is a rational choice, they don't have to sell sex to eat. But if the prostitute is an 18 year old who lives in some comuna, and has to look after her baby, mother, brother, 3 unemployed cousins and goes an entire day without food because she has no money...which is often the case, then legal or illegal, that is exploitation, because these girls are in no position of saying "sorry, you're fat and smelly...or yeah we can do it but I don't do ________ (insert unorthodox sexual practice)"....

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:03:

Ck, yes, I perfectly understand what you're saying. And I agree.

On the other hand, consider that prostitution has always been an important part in Colombian life.
Think about Garcia Marquez, Memorias de mi putas tristes, a love story that follows the romance of a 90-year old man and a pubescent underage concubine. A real story, Barranquilla.
How to judge something like it?

I still think the key is in discretion and tolerance. Away from the mass movement and the excess of sex tourism.

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:34:

Prostitution with minors in no way, shape, or form, can be compared or related to legalized prostitution.

Think in terms of gay men have sex with other gay men, that's their choice. But a sexual predator who preys on innocent young boys is not engaged in a gay act. It's a sick and twisted individidual who engages in these types of activities, obviously someone who has major issues. A priest who enjoys molesting young boys in not gay, he is also a sexual predator.

So, if Colombia has legalized prostitution the men who pay for sex should not be seen as sick and twisted individuals, it's the oldest profession in the world. Now, if someone wants to have sex with underage girls who, for the most part, can be considered exploited, mostly by Colombian family and friends, then that is a different story all together.

There are two states in the US were prostitution is legal. What's wrong with that picture? How can prostitution be legal in two states in America, yet be illegal in the rest of the states? I can't even begin to wrap my mind around those circumstances, I'm dumbfounded.

Now, the other day a co-worker whose wife passed away from cancer 4 years ago, leaving him to raise three daughters on his own, booked a trip to Vegas with four friends. They drank, gambled, partied, and he personally hooked up with two prostitutes. Does that make him a sex tourist? NOPE! It's legal, the women were of age, he paid for a service, and returned back home a happy man.

I liken stories and articles like the one posted by robi666 in the same manner when people want to blame gun makers for deaths commited with guns, Sorry, but guns don't kill people. People kill people with knifes, bats, bricks, bottles, tire irons, and yes, guns. This arguement came up recently when a co-worker mentioned that guns should be outlawed because in Chicago schools kids ahve been getting killed on a weekly basis and he suggested banning guns would solve the problem. WRONG, people should understand that the root of the problems are the problems that need to be addressed if you truly want to solve the problem all together. So, the article above talks about sex tourist, because it makes for good print, but why not focus on the real issues at hand?

Legalized prostitution in no way, shape, or form should ever be compared to child expliotation and molestation. Those are two completely seperate issues. And yes, there are laws around the world that will make sure the offenders see long prison sentences if anyone is caught having sex with minors, Unless of course, you are a catholic priest, then the Vatican will cover it up and move the sexual predator priest to another parish so the priest can continue molesting young children.

For whater reasons prostitution seems to thrive in latin countries, and it has been that way because the locals seem to have no major issues against sex for money.

C'mon. I talk to many Colombian men who have a wife and three kids, and a young girlfriend on the side, it seems to be a common situation. I have often wondered if that is why they seem to be happier than most middle-aged men I know in the US.

This is all prepetuated by locals, not gringo travelers.

Okay, that's about it from me, for now.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:41:

In Nevada's largest city it is illegal.

Cartagena has more prostitutes and child prostitutes per capita, than Bogota or Medellin , because more tourist visit Cartagena with sex tourism on their agenda.

If a fool wants to pay for sex that is his perversion, but
when he uses children in his perversion, then he needs to be killed.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:45:

Well most sexual predators have been victims themselves... should they be killed because their uncle, neighbor, or father molested them when they were five years old?

It's all very complicated.........

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:46:

Robi666, I hear you. Remember if you are serious about it you can count on me.

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

LDW says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:51:

I remember a thread in here quite some time ago in which it was mentioned that there would be weekly flights from the UAE to Cartagena.

If those flights are happening, one need not be a genious to figure out what those camel humpers are coming over for.

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 13:56:

MT: Those that molest if given a chance , will return again to molesting. If they are victims of molesting, and they them self become molestors , then maybe they would be better off " dead "
, that way maybe by killing them , we can one day break the cycle.

The sad truth is this problem will always exist in all parts of the world, but by making this problem more known , then if we stop one child molesting idiot , we may save many children from being that
idiots victims.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 14:06:

Yes, agree, once a molester, always a molestor because that is how their brains are wired for life.

What about Muslims who accept trading off their young underage daughters to grown men for marriage as part of religion and/or customs? I would hate to be born a female in the Muslim world.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

Cerealkiller says on Apr 5, 2008, 14:08:

I think its important to separate sexual predators from hooker chasers....hooker chasers are guys who cannot get laid based on their charisma, smarts or looks. Sexual predators are people who are f*cked up in the head.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

tomtom33 says on Apr 5, 2008, 14:46:

Some hooker chasers can manage to get laid without paying hookers. Of course I can't figure out why because I have no charisma, few smarts, and no one ever mistook me for Cary Grant.

I also do not completely agree with the argument about exploiting vulnerable people. Would it be better to never patronize a person who has little other choice? Is it okay to just let them starve then? Or do you force them to steal? They are willing to perform a service for which they can be paid. But somehow that is not okay?

People who mistreat hookers are scum.

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:29:

FACTS:

-The big problem with exploitation of underage persons, sexually or otherwise, is in RURAL areas, NOT URBAN ones.

-The majority of underage prostitutes are 17 years old, and are working with fake IDs. They are after all is said and done a MINISCULE percentage of the total working girls.

-Foreigners by and large do NOT want or seek the services of underage prostitutes in Colombia or any other country. The VAST VAST majority of children who are sexually abused are done so not ONLY by their own countrymen but almost always by people well-known to them.

-Prostitutes in Colombia can and DO assert themselves in situations and have been known to turn clients down for poor hygeine, rude behavior etc. They have also frequently been known to insist on condom use, even for oral sex. In fact, they are a lot MORE empowered over their own lives than they would be if they were scrubbing toilets for LESS than minimum wage.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:33:

rubito,

where did you get those FACTS?

god is in your head

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:35:

Through studies done by an anthropologist friend of mine, and first-hand observational experience. :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Cerealkiller says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:35:

Well Rubito, I can tell you fact 1 is not true. I have seen it myself underage prostitutes in VERY urban areas...and I mean 14 years old tops, not 17.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:38:

It happens but it's comparatively quite rare. The REAL problem is in rural areas, especially around logging and mining operations.

Hell I even heard a REAL nasty rumor about some shit that goes down in the south of Bogota. But a gringo would never get NEAR that action. Anybody who tried would be cut into little pieces before they could blink.

Look, a foreinger is NOT going to solve child sexual exploitation problems in Colombia. If you care THAT much about Colombia and its problems and want to solve THIS one, I'd recommend you get Colombian citizenship first (good luck) and THEN be prepared to take on some of the scariest people you could possibly meet this side of hell.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:39:

"The VAST VAST majority of children who are sexually abused are done so not ONLY by their own countrymen but almost always by people well-known to them"

- this is the part that came from the anthropologist.

your observations seem to minimize the extent to which the problem permiates. i really wish they were true. however, i think alot of the deviant behavior occurs in little dark corners of the world that none of us ever get to witness. it is my belief that there is alot more of this nonsense going on that any one of us would prefer to know or admit to knowing.

chemical castration is the only solution for these deviants....

god is in your head

Cerealkiller says on Apr 5, 2008, 15:42:

Id say the first step is to stop contributing to this sort of shit, get yourself a latex doll to poke and fuck and voila...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:01:

I don't know where you get your FACTS Rubito, but:
1 Wrong
2 Wrong
3 Wrong
4 Wrong

Now browse your beloved board and tell me that there are no reports about street scene around San Diego area in Medellin. Just that is enough to show that you're completely wrong.
I guess everyone in Medellin know what I am talking about.

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:11:

Ok well where the hell are YOUR sources? Cuz I just don't believe you. And I have EXPERIENCE with the sex industry.

Show me ONE PROVEN incident where a foreigner in Medellin slept with someone under 18 in the past year. Just ONE! I'll settle for the same standards the Colombian court system uses, OR the American one.But it has to be REAL beyond any reasonable doubt. No yellow journalism paying their interviewees off and/or handing them scripts, no NGOs quoting each other's imputed data, or completely informal, biases and unscientific reports.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:17:

I can do more.
Next time you'll happen to be in Medellin, we'll take a drive, I'll make you talk with a couple of the girls, you'll see that they are obviously underage, and we'll park somewhere and look at taxis with gringo on picking them up.

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:19:

ask any mde cop in any of those areas mentioned. it happens every night of the week, rubito.

* take that # and triple it for bogota.

it's a shame and all those jackasses should be nailed to the wall.

bring on the aguilas negras!

god is in your head

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:23:

Spot on, Tejas.

Rubito, we can have the same experience in Santa Marta, if you wish. There are underage prostitution in El Rodadero, every night. Not many gringos, but I am positive we can look at someone picking them up.

I wonder if Bogotà is Colombia...

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:27:

But again, browse your beloved perverted board and tell me that there are no reports about street scene around San Diego area in Medellin. Just that is enough to show that you're completely wrong.
I guess everyone in Medellin know what I am talking about.

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:41:

Robi: read this about sex tourist in Colombia.

http://www.ninosdepapel.org/espanol/print.php?sid=124

A mí unos gringos, vestidos de marineros, que llegaron en una fragata me pagaron en dólares, como 150 mil pesos. Eso ha sido lo máximo", recuerda Alejandrina*.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 16:46:

Yes, DD, maybe Rubito should read it, too.
By the way, you did not add that Alejandrina is a minor.

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 17:12:

Well I've never seen an (obviously) underage working girl either in Rio or in Bogota. And I have a pretty big sample size to work from :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 18:28:

Ave Caracus in Bogota has many under age prostitutes.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 19:32:

I'd like to see some evidence of that. Most of the streetwalkers I've seen in Bogota are SOOOOOOOOOO obviously not underage. They are the exact opposite of underage in fact. Most of them are walking testaments to the effects of drug abuse :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 19:41:

Rubito: You may not know it , or may not want to admit it , but fact is there are many underage
prositutes in Bogota. Ask a taxi driver donde prepagos jovencitas. Caracus ave in Bogota has many working in the clubs and studios. The Bogota you know is very different from the Bogota most Colombianos know.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 19:54:

DodgerDogs says, "The Bogota you know is very different from the Bogota most Colombianos know."

Yes, cause the Colombians are the ones who support this type of behavior, exploiting underage prostitutes. And, they know where to find them.

If a tourist wishes to seek underage girls for sex, that's on him and if he's caught in the act, well he's gonna have some serious problems. We can't police the Colombian streets from these PBH forums.

At the end of the day, it's not up to foreigners to try to solve the problems created by Colombian society.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:20:

"At the end of the day, it's not up to foreigners to try to solve the problems created by Colombian society"

- no offense MT, but that is a defeatist attitude. the laws in the USA follow any American tourist where ever they travel. just because the laws are different here in Colombia for Colombians, it DOES NOT mean Americans can engage in the same activities. the Colombian authorities may chose not to enforce laws that do not belong to them, but they remain in effect and state sexual relations with a minor (anyone under 18) is statutory rape - here, there or the moon - period.

- the sex tourist knows that he can come here and thwart the laws of his own land. this only enforces the sex tourists and more like him to actively engage this country for that activity. i for one do not think this country needs this type of tourism from this type of scumbag.

god is in your head

Rubito says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:26:

Umm, I don't think he's advocating PARTAKING of their services. Being a foreigner looking for underage pussy is likely to get you horribly (and deservedly) killed, and that's also a reason why most pedophiles STICK TO THEIR OWN NECK OF THE WOODS.

And tejas, in most states the age of consent is 16 or 17. Some have it as low as 14. In Colombia it's 14 but the worker has to be 18 if you pay her/him for sex, which is as it should be. Once you've reached the age of majority (but not before) you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want with your body.

Between Colombia and the USA I'd say that the USA is the one that has a problem with its laws. IT is the one that is the backwards country in this case.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:26:

tejas: Well put for a Texan. Honest Texas is a great place except that ranch in Crawford.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:33:

DD - agreed.

Rubito - i stand corrected. many states are less than 18. never knew that....

http://www.coolnurse.com/consent.htm

* if i ever have a daughter and she turns 17 and starts to date a 45 year old man, i'm kickin his tail - and then i'm kickin hers.

god is in your head

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:36:

Texas from Lamar ave in Austin to fm 1960 in Houston and down south to rio Grande is good country.
I would not trade Colombia for any place , but the hill country around Utopia to Leakey is a close second .

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:38:

how do you know that area, dd?

god is in your head

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:41:

I was born in Pearsall and went to school at San Marcos , and have dug arrowheads all over the hill country.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:44:

too funny. i went to swt my freshman year of college. that is a cool campus with the spring fed river running through it. that area has blown up over the past 10-15 years.

god is in your head

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:47:

That river at the back of the campus has some cold water, but clear water. I used to work at Hastings
record and tapes while I went to school there.

But we better stay on topic, as this post is to good to hijack

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:48:

Here are some facts regarding child prostitution in Colombia:
"Entre 2002 y 2005 hubo 5,674 menores de edad asesinados y las tasas de suicidio siguen incrementándose entre los niños, niñas y adolescentes, especialmente entre los indígenas. En el 2005, 1,786 personas cometieron suicidio, 191 de ellas eran menores de edad.
Se estima que 50.000 mujeres, niñas y niños colombianos han sido víctimas del Tráfico de personas hacia el exterior. En Colombia la prostitución infantil ha crecido tres veces en los últimos tres años, existiendo aproximadamente 35 mil niños y niñas están vinculadas a la explotación sexual. Según el mismo estudio, la edad en que se induce a la actividad se ha reducido incluso por debajo de los 10 años.

La prostitución infantil en Santa Marta, uno de los más importantes balnearios del Caribe colombiano, ha registrado un alarmante crecimiento del cien por ciento en el último año, advirtió La Organización Internacional para las Migraciones (OIM) de Naciones Unidas (ONU), precisó que un estudio realizado muestra que la prostitución infantil en ese balneario es ejercida mayormente por niñas de entre 8 y 12 años.

La afluencia de visitantes extranjeros de altos ingresos y la actividad portuaria, en particular la de multinacionales que exportan carbón (DRUMMONT), son mencionados como algunos de los factores que han propiciado el crecimiento del turismo sexual en Santa Marta. Las autoridades establecieron que las menores prostitutas cobran de 1.000 a 2.000 pesos por cada relación sexual.

Según una denuncia publicada por el diario El Tiempo (06/10/07, Pág. 1-6), MICHEL J. COEN, sargento segundo del EJÉRCITO DE ESTADO UNIDOS y su hombre de confianza CÉSAR RUIZ, ingresaron el pasado 25 de agosto a la base de Tolemaida en Melgar (Tolima) con una niña de 12 años de edad. Un informe confidencial asegura que en el apartamento de Ruiz, Coen obligó a la menor de edad a tener relaciones sexuales. "No hay duda de que hubo acceso carnal", aseguró la sicóloga que valoró a la niña."

http://www.cyemh.org/marco.php?pagina=http://www.aporrea.org/internaci...

Abuso sexual de menores in Medellin
http://www.vivirenelpoblado.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view...
Hay un tipo llamado Lindsay Ashford que tiene un sitio en internet en el que hace apología de la pedofilia; se presenta a sí mismo como un amante de las niñas y que personas como él, que las quieren tanto, jamás les harían daño. En otro sitio, El Castillo Azul, se reúnen hombres a los que les gustan los menores de edad, para hablar de sus gustos y para comunicarse con muchachos a los que según ellos les atraen los hombres mayores.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:49:

Shared Hope Part II - Domestic Minor Sex Trafficking

How to track pimps and sex predators

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:50:

i lived in elliot hall and they just started building a new library that year. there was some place across the highway (can't remember the name) that had $1 pitcher of beer on thursday nights.

god is in your head

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:52:

This is from the local paper last week.
http://www.elpilon.com.co/noticias/not00011274.htm

Prostitución, droga y alcoholismo afectan a la juventud de Aguachica

Pese a las campañas de prevención y a los programas encaminados a evitar los flagelos de la prostitución, drogadicción y alcoholismo, nada se ha logrado en los últimos años y tal parece que en el municipio, el problema crece.

En Aguachica y en varios municipios del sur del Cesar, la situación se torna aún más complicada debido a los casos comprobados de menores de edad ejerciendo libremente y sin ningún control la prostitución, actividad que por lo general, es acompañada por vicios como drogadicción y alcoholismo.

Durante los primeros dos meses de 2008, el índice de estos casos creció en un nueve por ciento con relación a índices registrados en seguimientos que se han hecho en esta localidad, lo que ha generado una serie de dificultades para los organismos de salud en lo que respecta al control de enfermedades de transmisión sexual.

Las menores de edad dedicadas a la prostitución, utilizan como sitio de trabajo los amanecederos y estacionamientos de vehículos de carga, lugares en donde se ofrecen por irrisorias sumas de dinero o por alimentos.

Un experto en investigaciones sobre estos temas dijo a EL PILÓN que, “algunas niñas en edades entre 12, 13 y 14 años, en lugar de ir al colegio se dedican a ejercer la prostitución y lo que es más preocupante, ante la mirada complaciente de sus padres y en algunos casos, porque padecen problemas psicológicos y motrices�?.

A esto se le suman los casos de abuso sexual; en lo que va corrido de este año, sólo en Aguachica se han presentado innumerables denuncias en las que hombres de 50 a 55 y más años, abusan de niñas entre los seis y diez años de edad.

El porque del alcoholismo

El alcoholismo en las menores de edad es otro de los problemas que desde el seno familiar se permite, lo que ha causado un enorme desequilibrio social en muchas familias de Aguachica.

En este sentido, lo que se ha descubierto es que la mayor parte de los casos detectados se presentan en niñas de familias que han sufrido el rigor del desplazamiento forzoso y de alguna manera tocadas por la violencia.

Un funcionario del Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar afirmó sobre estos casos que cuando se inicia un menor en el alcoholismo y la drogadicción, seguramente pasó primero por la mendicidad: “allí es donde se adoptan todas estas aberraciones de la vida humana�?, señaló.

Tampoco hay que ignorar que algunos padres de familia inducen a sus propios hijos al alcoholismo, a veces por desconocer algunos parámetros de crianza o por demostrar el machismo en el caso del padre.

La drogadicción, caso similar

Este problema, siendo similar al alcoholismo, es aún más peligroso y delicado cuando los menores consumen sustancias psicoactivas en exceso y a corta edad, es decir, entre los 10 y los 14 años.

En Aguachica y Río de Oro existe desde hace años este grave problema debido a que en todos los ángulos sociales se han detectado este tipo de fenómenos que crecen pese al esfuerzo que hacen las autoridades de salud para erradicarlos. También el trabajo de las autoridades ha sido incansable en lo relacionado con la detección y desmantelamiento de las “ollas�? en donde se expenden drogas a menores de edad.

La labor policial contra estos ilícitos arrojó en el 2007 resultados positivos, ya que se logró desmantelar varios sitios de distribución de alucinógenos, pero en la actualidad aún quedan muchos y los casos de drogadicción aumentan considerablemente.

En lo que respecta al municipio de Río de Oro, las autoridades dejaron ver su preocupación por el alto índice de menores de edad que están ‘atrapados’ en este vicio, el que se acompaña con otras adicciones al cigarrillo y al licor.

El problema se muestra más alarmante en Río de Oro, lo que ha impulsado a las autoridades a promover campañas de control y prevención en las que se busca involucrar a las familias, a los organismos de salud, comisarías de Familia y el Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar, para que aunando esfuerzos se logre acabar de raíz con uno de los problemas sociales que más afecta a la región.

Alarma por expansión del Sida

Sobre la cantidad de casos de prostitución infantil que se han detectado en Aguachica y Río de Oro, entre otros municipios del sur del Cesar, una fuente del Centro Epidemiológico de Aguachica señaló que ante el desorden sexual, es posible que el número de infectados de Sida aumente considerablemente.

Indicó que en estos temas los organismos de salud tienen un poco de responsabilidad en el sentido de que a las menores de 18 años que ejercen la prostitución, no las reciben en el control médico que se les práctica cada ocho días.

Explicó la fuente que en algunos prostíbulos, las trabajadoras sexuales aún no han cumplido los 18 años, mientras que en la calle, niñas de 12 y 13 años también se dedican a la misma actividad; es tal vez por esta razón que las menores no acceden a los controles médicos.

Por su parte, una fuente del Centro Epidemiológico de Aguachica dijo a EL PILÓN que a las menores de edad no se les recibe en el control medico que se les realiza a las trabajadoras sexuales, simplemente porque la actividad que ejercen es ilegal a su edad: “esta es la única manera de hacerlas entrar en razón para que adopten otra forma de vida, ya que si se les acepta en los controles, ellas se sentirían seguras y continuarían con esa actividad�?, concluyó la fuente.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:53:

So I say to the cyber pimps and sex predators in Colombia we are coming after you!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

DodgerDogs says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:57:

Monpirri: Colombia is too great a place to let Sex Tourist give Cartagena a bad name.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 20:58:

I'm with you DodgerDogs!

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 21:01:

Agree. Thanks for your contributions.

tejasmarcos says on Apr 5, 2008, 21:03:

the pbh aguilas are watching.....

god is in your head

Monpirri says on Apr 5, 2008, 21:04:

Paisano Robi good evening and good night, I'm going to crash I have a long journey tomorrow.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

robi666 says on Apr 5, 2008, 21:13:

I am going too. Had a nice dinner at La Provincia.
I see that Ray is on board now, so I better go to sleep before it's too late...

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 5, 2008, 22:37:

tejasmarcos,

MT says, "If a tourist wishes to seek underage girls for sex, that's on him and if he's caught in the act, well he's gonna have some serious problems. We can't police the Colombian streets from these PBH forums.

At the end of the day, it's not up to foreigners to try to solve the problems created by Colombian society."

Rubito says, "Umm, I don't think he's advocating PARTAKING of their services. Being a foreigner looking for underage pussy is likely to get you horribly (and deservedly) killed, and that's also a reason why most pedophiles STICK TO THEIR OWN NECK OF THE WOODS."

Agree with Rubito. Sexual predators almost always victimize someone very close to them, neighbor's kids, relatives, kids on team sports they couch, because they first need to gain the trust of their victim. It's rarely a random act of molestation.

Again...

Prostitution with minors in no way, shape, or form, can be compared or related to legalized prostitution.

Think in terms of gay men have sex with other gay men, that's their choice. But a sexual predator who preys on innocent young boys is not engaged in a gay act. It's a sick and twisted individidual who engages in these types of activities, obviously someone who has major issues. A priest who enjoys molesting young boys in not gay, he is also a sexual predator.

So, if Colombia has legalized prostitution the men who pay for sex should not be seen as sick and twisted individuals, it's the oldest profession in the world. Now, if someone wants to have sex with underage girls who, for the most part, can be considered exploited, mostly by Colombian family and friends, then that is a different story all together.

There are two states in the US were prostitution is legal. What's wrong with that picture? How can prostitution be legal in two states in America, yet be illegal in the rest of the states? I can't even begin to wrap my mind around those circumstances, I'm dumbfounded.

Now, the other day a co-worker whose wife passed away from cancer 4 years ago, leaving him to raise three daughters on his own, booked a trip to Vegas with four friends. They drank, gambled, partied, and he personally hooked up with two prostitutes. Does that make him a sex tourist? NOPE! It's legal, the women were of age, he paid for a service, and returned back home a happy man.

I liken stories and articles like the one posted by robi666 in the same manner when people want to blame gun makers for deaths commited with guns, Sorry, but guns don't kill people. People kill people with knifes, bats, bricks, bottles, tire irons, and yes, guns. This arguement came up recently when a co-worker mentioned that guns should be outlawed because in Chicago schools kids ahve been getting killed on a weekly basis and he suggested banning guns would solve the problem. WRONG, people should understand that the root of the problems are the problems that need to be addressed if you truly want to solve the problem all together. So, the article above talks about sex tourist, because it makes for good print, but why not focus on the real issues at hand?

Legalized prostitution in no way, shape, or form should ever be compared to child expliotation and molestation. Those are two completely seperate issues. And yes, there are laws around the world that will make sure the offenders see long prison sentences if anyone is caught having sex with minors, Unless of course, you are a catholic priest, then the Vatican will cover it up and move the sexual predator priest to another parish so the priest can continue molesting young children.

For whater reasons prostitution seems to thrive in latin countries, and it has been that way because the locals seem to have no major issues against sex for money.

C'mon. I talk to many Colombian men who have a wife and three kids, and a young girlfriend on the side, it seems to be a common situation. I have often wondered if that is why they seem to be happier than most middle-aged men I know in the US.

This is all prepetuated by locals, not gringo travelers.

buenas noches a todos........

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

Rubito says on Apr 6, 2008, 05:09:

MT, EXACTLY. Monpirri's stats include a lot of LEGAL and CONSENSUAL prostitution in them. Those fucking NGOs are totally devoid of any sort of professional ethics or objectivity because they are so high on their agenda that the truth gets totally left by the wayside.

You know how they obtain said data? Somebody stands on a street corner and watches for women who "look" underage and every time they see one they add a number to the amount of "sex trafficking victims." NO effort is made to dig any deeper than that, yet they treat those "studies" as if they were gospel truth. And once a few of them quote each other it's all over Google and becomes established fact!

If Colombia REALLY wanted to combat child sexual abuse, they should form a task force that goes out to every last logging and mining town etc. way out in the boonies, where the REAL disgusting shit goes down. THAT is where 90% of the REAL exploitation of minors in Colombia takes place.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Cerealkiller says on Apr 6, 2008, 05:11:

Ive seen a bunch of underage prostitutes in bogota. Just hang around Terraza Pasteur in central Bogota, tons of 15 yo boys...I've also seen very young girls around calle 19, I don't know the name of the area, but a couple of blocks away from a Cafam calle 19 in central bogota.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Rubito says on Apr 6, 2008, 05:12:

I posted this some months ago during a debate with CaritaDeAngel, but here it is for reference. This is from my anthropologist friend:

"Just read another book today on sexual trafficking of women. Same ol', same ol'. These people bat stats back and forth until they obtain a life of their own and, once that happens, no one cares what the epistemological basis for the orginal stat was.

In this book, frex, the author cites a study by the International Organization for Migration on numbers of victims trafficked worldwide. I had looked into this study years ago and found out that, basically, it consisted of the IOM polling its associate offices and asking them to come up with numbers. No single methodology was suggested or involved, it was just kinda "Alright, people, give us your best guess: what's happening in your country?" Based on this highly unscientific methodology, the OIM came up with an estimate of about 1 million sexual trafficking victims. To the OIM's credit, it also claimed this number was HIGHLY speculative.

Comes now the author of the book I just read. She cites the OIM's figure without an eyeblink, conveniently leaving out the part about how all this is highly speculative. She also cites a French T.V. news producer as a source for the factoid that 75,000 Brazilian women are prostituting themselves in Europe. Both these "facts" are presented with equal gravity and the only way one can check their providence is by tediously looking them up in the footnotes and then researching them oneselves to see what was really said, by who and based on what.

But because this woman is an award-winning women studies prof at the University of Oregon, her book will now become an unimpeachable source for people like your friend, who'll point to it every time they need "proof" for their assertions. In fact, I don't suspect that it will be long before some local OIM office will read it and include its "findings" in its next report to the Central Office and then the whole merry circle will have turned full 'round once again.

God, the way people do this sort of shit in academia makes me want to puke..."

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

robi666 says on Apr 6, 2008, 06:56:

Rubi, why don't you post something to show us the holocaust was invented by jewish?

M_T, what you're saying is very superficial. I am amazed at the fact that you do not get it.

Read this as matter of definition:
Sex tourism is travel to engage in sexual intercourse or sexual activity with prostitutes, and is typically undertaken internationally by tourists from wealthier countries.
The World Tourism Organization, a specialized agency of the United Nations, defines sex tourism as "trips organized from within the tourism sector, or from outside this sector but using its structures and networks, with the primary purpose of effecting a commercial sexual relationship by the tourist with residents at the destination". The U.N. opposes sex tourism citing health, social and cultural consequences for both tourist home countries and destination countries, especially in situations exploiting gender, age, social and economic inequalities in sex tourism destinations.
Attractions for sex tourists can include reduced costs for services in the destination country, along with either legal prostitution or indifferent law enforcement and access to child prostitution.

So, prostitution in an underdeveloped country has nothing to do with child prostitution?
Or that a prostitution seeking MOVEMENT, like is sex tourism, has nothing to do with it or exploiting?
Yes, ask about it to the underage out there looking for the gringo to make their day.

Consider the looser feeling good because he got a better price than his friend and because he convinced the girl to go bare or to make it in her ass and post it on the Internet.
Or the looser posting pictures of his victim on the Internet like a trophy.
What would you expect from such individuals? Consideration? To ask their IDs to their putas?

There was a guy here on PBH, who went to Santa Marta, and pretending to be famous photographer or something, took pictures of girls, some underage. Those pictures are said to be appeared on the ISG and then removed. He had also some actions because he promised to make some of the girls famous.
That's the kind of lowlifes out there.
http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/santa-marta-rentals-who-to-aviod...

Do the words " especially in situations exploiting gender, age, social and economic inequalities in sex tourism destinations." sound higher?

Do you want to see some action and then ask yourself why is it happening?
Next time you're in Medellin.

You're right, Colombian do it, too. Jesus, we are in Colombia, o no? How many gringos out there in percent?
Nevertheless, we are talking about sex tourism here (see the definition).

Monpirri says on Apr 6, 2008, 12:05:

Mr. Rubito,
Giant prostitution rings busted
http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/giant-prostitution-rings-busted/

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 12:15:

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=21970&archive=t...
Those who trafic in prostitution, also threaten the prostitutes families with harm.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

romy says on Apr 6, 2008, 12:28:

Rubito- Do you have references to scholarly sources that share in your deconstructive outlook to the way the situation has been discussed? Or the Urban vs. Rural situations?

tomtom33 says on Apr 6, 2008, 13:51:

I guess that it remains difficult to discuss this without inflaming passions.

Yes, I have seen obviously underage girls working in both CTG and MDE. I haven't seen much, but I don't look for it either.

And hell yes, prostitution brings problems. So does government. Life brings problems.

There is a difference between the sex tourist and the pedophile, the sex slaver, and the pimp. Let's try to keep those broad brushes sheathed.

robi666 says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:11:

You are right Tom.
Difference. But one thing brings to the other, inevitably.
Hence the original article.

tomtom33 says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:24:

No sex tourism would not, however, lead to no pedophilia, no sex slavery, and no pimping.

Monpirri says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:31:

Sex tourism is for those who are deprieved to have sex because insecurity, personal looks, explotation... so all the titles mentioned above no matter how you paint them they all are from the same sick family.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:33:

Sex tourist = Sh*t < > Pedophile = Maggot . The best way is clean up the sh*t , and the maggots can not feed on the mess the sh*t makes.
A sex tourist is a person , whos morales are only a notch above a pedophile.

If a man can't get laid without paying money , or traveling to a poor country , then maybe he is better off dead .

The govenor of New York resigned after he was exposed for using the services of a prostitute,
he did not resignffor being unfaithful to his wife, as the current govenor of New York has admited being unfaithful at times to his wife.

The world will forgive a person who strays , but very few accept perverts like sex tourist and pedophiles.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:34:

I know it's a movie, but....

Having just watched Victor Gaviria's great little independent movie La Vendedora De Rosas, which unfolds as an indictment against Colombian society, one thing that was very obvious to the viewer as it is displayed on a number of occasions is the prevelant sexual abuse of young girls by Colombian men, it's can easily be construed as being very common in Colombia.

Is this art imitating life?

I believe Gaviria wanted to show the reality of life in Medellin for many young girls, that is why the story is focused on a group of young girls as they struggle to survive against the evils that lurk in the shadows, obvious only to those who are not afraid to see the reality of what is what. It ain't pretty.

Pedophilia and sexual abuse of young girls seems to be a serious problem in Colombian society. If you want to address the problem you must look at Colombia first, before worrying about tourist who seek the same desires as those displayed in the movie.

Again, nothing the group on PBH can actually do anything about because you can't defeat social behaviors by flaming people on the internet.

The reality is a sad one, but that's the reality of life in many countries.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:39:

In Colombia most pedophiles are dealt with, very few go unpurnished or live to see another day. Pablo Escobar was a pedophile was not a sex tourist.
Read the newspapers in Colombia, very often they mention about a pedophile, being arrested or killed.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

romy says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:48:

DodgerDogs- "Sex tourist = Sh*t < > Pedophile = Maggot . The best way is clean up the sh*t , and the maggots can not feed on the mess the sh*t makes.
A sex tourist is a person , whos morales are only a notch above a pedophile."
Monpirri- "Sex tourism is for those who are deprieved to have sex because insecurity, personal looks, explotation... so all the titles mentioned above no matter how you paint them they all are from the same sick family."

Ok, consider this scenario. A traveler backpacking Europe/Latin America/Asia/US (anywhere) is not at any specific place for a large amount of time (is not interested in) to build a rapport with any girl. So after enjoying his day/night in the city, "donde estan las putas?". Do you hate that guy as well? it would appear to me that both this guy and the girl (and society) involved are better served if the girl is a prostitute rather than a regular girl that is mislead to the one-night stand. Obviously, I'm talking about a prostitute that made the choice and is not underage.

tomtom33 says on Apr 6, 2008, 14:58:

DD and Mon, I respectfully do not share your opinions. Feel free to hate and denigrate whoever you choose.

robi666 says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:10:

I think that the key is moderation. Private life is private and should be kept like that.

Prostitution always existed in Colombia. How to judge?

The problem begins when a bunch of gringos (european, american, whatever) flock around and start to deteriorate a place. Like in Cartagena.
Colombians keep it a personal stuff. Gringos flock around, post pictures in a website, invent competition about who pays less and who goes bare, enter in "resonance". It is a sort of pollution, isn't it?

Going with a prostitute is not the problem. Transforming it in a wide movement (sex tourism) is a huge problem.

DD is right. Pedophiles are dealt with in Colombia.

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:10:

Colombia is too great a place , to be hot spot for sex tourist.
When you see a sex tourist expose him for what he is.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Monpirri says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:13:

MedellinTraveler, "Again, nothing the group on PBH can actually do anything about because you can't defeat social behaviors by flaming people on the internet."
I am pretty sure that if you are aware of any sex crimes mentioned herewith you would report it to the proper authorities in Colombia, Am I right?

MAC

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Juanes says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:15:

i didnt count myself a sex tourist when i went to thailand, south africa, barbados, cuba, brasil, colombia, rst of central america but i did have encounters with girls in these places in these countries sometimes for free and sometimes not...this will go on for ages and is the oldest game in the world, at least colombia is not as bad as some of those places in asia & all of the street women i came across (literally) were over 18.

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:17:

Why would one , ever want to defend sex tourism ? ( unless they were a pervert sex tourist )

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Juanes says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:43:

so i guess that 100% of people who go on stag do's and batchelor parties and pay for one night of pleasure while boracho probably can be classed as a 'pervert sex tourist; then, im not advocating/promoting sex with minors anyway.

whatever we say and do, prostitution illegal and legal will continue in all parts of the world, whether they are perverts or normal red blooded males...i never met any street girls that appeared under 18 anyway from cartagena all the way down to cali or saw them hanging out, most of them have children elsewhere or family to support.

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 15:49:

Only a pervert sex tourist goes to Colombia to have sex with prepagos.

Colombia needs tourism , but does not need sex tourism.

If someone needs a hooker , while he is visiting Colombia, he can hold his paloma in his hand, until he goes back to where he came from.

Come to Colombia to enjoy it's great cultures and sights, do not come to Colombia to help corrupt it .

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Juanes says on Apr 6, 2008, 16:02:

cual es el sentido con 'prepagos', u mean you pay first which is kind of like happening in other countries i guess y no es unico es locombia....i have visited all parts of colombia and seen the deserts, beaches and mountains and pueblitos galore but if i still want a bunk uo, whats with that.....i dont go there deliberately for that reason but to see the land, experience the food and culture, take in the passion at footie games,etc

can you tell me a country in the americas that exists without prepagos or hookers ?

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 16:09:

Juanes: Every country has prostitutes , but does that mean you or anyone else should visit those prostitutes, while visiting that country ?

If tourist keep using the services of prepagos in Colombia , then Colombians will start thinking all tourist are sex mongers.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Juanes says on Apr 6, 2008, 16:23:

no of couse not, pero cuando un gringo esta boracho los pensamientos esta sobre cogiendo o jodiendo con una mujer muchas veces.....

when you have your beer goggles on those good intentions go out of the window for yournger gringos.

like i said its the oldest game in the world.

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Juanes says on Apr 6, 2008, 16:26:

plus its not general knowledge about this behaviour, most guys who i know who have a quick bit of hows your father, try to keep it under wraps, on the down lo, and do not do it under the noses of all colombians anyway.......

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 6, 2008, 16:34:

Monpirri says, "I am pretty sure that if you are aware of any sex crimes mentioned herewith you would report it to the proper authorities in Colombia, Am I right?"

Si senior.

DodgerDogs says, "Come to Colombia to enjoy it's great cultures and sights, do not come to Colombia to help corrupt it."

I went up to the hillside barrios and was corrupted by the local paisas :O) it's all good.

Thanks to robi666, the mods, and the posters who, for the most part, have been able to share their thoughts and opinions on a subject that seems to be taboo, especially for a public forum.

I'm done here...............

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

deathnova says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:32:

DD,

If you see that again contact the U.S. Embassy. They will be relieved of their duties pending an investigation and likely charged with one or more felonies.

Rubito says on Apr 6, 2008, 19:56:

[chanelling Desi]
Well at least Robi is debating this civilly without going off on a tirade. I'm going to ignore DD until he sits in a corner for awhile and learns to play nicely.
[/chanelling Desi]

Robi, why not take a few steps back and look at this OBJECTIVELY as I have done. You will find out something very VERY interesting.

Every social ill you can think of that is caused by and has been caused by prostitution has been caused to an equal or even greater measure by MARRIAGE. Think about it. How many women and girls get injured or even killed by their husbands or exes compared to prostitutes getting killed by their clients. How many women have turned to alcohol and other drugs and even gone as far as committing suicide because of unhappy marriages?

You say it's ok behind closed doors, I find that mentality frankly bizarre, not surprising because anybody suffering from enough catholic guilt would agree with you, but I for one will NOT be ashamed of things I have done and WILL continue to do. I've decided it's time to make a stand. Judeo/christian/muslim sexual "morality" is EXTREMELY bad for our mental health and I want to see it STOP in our lifetimes. And that's where the line in the sand is going to be drawn. People should have the right to pay for sex or charge for it and HOLD THEIR HEAD HIGH. Anything that gets in the way of consenting adults being sexual in ANY way they so choose is the highest and most egregious form of oppression, and contrary to the human spirit!

I'd also love to see ANY shred of evidence from ANYBODY that shows that men who pay for sex are incapable of getting it any other way.

God, by some of the logic of people on this site, I'd rather be a broke-ass Colombian who at least can get a little pussy/dick/whatever else once in a while than an American who can't even get laid on vacation without getting lynched!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

tejasmarcos says on Apr 6, 2008, 19:57:

LOL!

god is in your head

tomtom33 says on Apr 7, 2008, 00:43:

Robi, you certainly have a point. I am sure that we do not see the world in the same manner, but I saw no deterioration in my 4 years in Laguito. Yes, some of those websites can get gross, but so can the guys in the locker room. Openly discussing your vices can be healthy.

I do not see sex tourism as a problem. Some sex tourists are pinheads and a small percentage engage in illegal activities. But I would guess that the percentage is not much higher in the sex tourists than in the general population.

I do understand how some people go ballistic at the thought of prostitution. It is not for everyone. But I do not like people trying to regulate or suppress my behaviors when those behaviors are perfectly legal and, in my opinion, moral.

Saltador says on Apr 7, 2008, 07:58:

Dodger Dogs quote:
"If a man can't get laid without paying money , or traveling to a poor country , then maybe he is better off dead ."
Bump.
Hereby nominated for quote of the year. And not in a good way.

tejasmarcos says on Apr 7, 2008, 09:19:

maybe the government should find a way to promote MORE sex tourism in Colombia?

then, maybe aussie greg could franchise his business and put them on every corner - just like starbucks in the usa.

god is in your head

Rubito says on Apr 7, 2008, 09:40:

On some of these boards they actually have working girls as members as well. I love reading their unique and honest perspective on things. You read THAT and you will have a hard time looking on women who sell sex as pathetic victims anymore. There was even one who started working in sex because of a divorce that left her with bills she wouldnt otherwise be able to pay, later when she got on her feet she quit and got a straight job but went back to the brothel because SHE LIKED IT BETTER.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

tejasmarcos says on Apr 7, 2008, 09:53:

NEW Colombian Tourism Slogan;

1) Can't get a date?

2) Tired of dating women your own age?

3) Tired of spending $100-150 on the dates you do manage to get?

4) Overweight? Dull personality? Not very attractive?

TRY COLOMBIA! Find out what it feels like to be a STUD AGAIN!

Here in Colombia, women are girls again! Can't find the love of your life, then try renting her for a while. Her parents won't mind. They think she is at school learning to read and write!

Bring your cash, bring your credit cards, bring your geritol!

god is in your head

tomtom33 says on Apr 7, 2008, 10:18:

That's what I forgot, Geritol!

tejasmarcos says on Apr 7, 2008, 10:21:

listo

god is in your head

Juanes says on Apr 7, 2008, 11:19:

tejas, muy muy muy chistoso parce....humor de los ingleses y gente en estados unidos es mejor del mundo

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Juanes says on Apr 7, 2008, 11:31:

when i was in both cali, medellin and cali in 2007 for some time in the centre areas paying around 15 mi a nite for my own not so good room, i would take beers in bars cum nightspots with no entrance fee and i can tell you i was the only rubio there. as for gringo sex tourism all the places like this i visited cos they were within walking distance of my accomdation there were local men both young and old with the local girls, i know in santa marta/cartagena the ratio is loads higher but we gringos still account for a very small part of the sex industry in that country overall. a colombian guy took me to the place around carrera 9 or 18 in bogota about 15 min cab ride from my hotel el dorado and the place was full of young and middle aged colombians dancing, drinking and going to the rooms with the locals who came from as far away as buenaventura and pasto. Being my first time in bogota i saw no other english speaking gringos taking in this part of the city so wheres the gringo sex tourism there. again around my hotels near parque de bolivar, carrera 48 ecuador in central medellin the same situation...

so please dd, dont label me a perverted sex tourisy if i occasionally wanted a bit of hanky panky with a calena, paisa o negrita (ojala no es ofensivo), porque tuve mucho suerte con las nenas y mujeres alla sin pagar tambien.

chau papito

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Juanes says on Apr 7, 2008, 11:31: