PBH / Colombia / Forums (active) Travelguide Cheap hostels Pictures

Notary Scadal in Colombia

For those who care there is another scandal brewing in Colombia. It involves the Notary's...go here for some info: http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/5732-supreme-court-does-....

I have lived and worked in many different countries, mostly in the Middle East and parts of Africa. In these countries the local Chamber of Commerce has a lot of power for some reason and also has very strong relationships with their respective governments. But Notaries? These people are Clerks with no education or qualification required. And not very good Clerks. I have asked Quindío’s equivalent of the Secretary of State for the Department (who is my neighbor) what someone needs be qualified at to be a Clerk in the Notary office. Her response? You need to know someone.

Why is the Notary system in Colombia so important? Why does it have so much power? As I see it they merely keep records, but why for example does Armenia have around 10 or more Notaries? These people are not government employees…they are privately employed. Why is it a big deal if the Notaries give out some kind of affiliation to government officials?

I know most of you could give a rats ass or less about his, but I am curious why these Clerks get so much attention? Have you ever been to a Notary? They act like the second coming...something that I do not understand happening to someone who can be a Notary and be an uneducated Clerk.

Just curious.

By Rikito on Sep 3, 2009, 15:36 in Friendly Talkzone.

pilotguy says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:07:

It is my understanding that they have to be attornies. I would like a verification of this myself. joe

0 funny, 0 helpful.

pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:19:

Notaries are at the front lines enforcing tax collection for the government. They also certify and verify official documents and copies of same.

The clerical staff are not specially qualified, however the guy in the booth who signs off all documents (the actual notary public) would surely have a legal qualifcation.

The notary system is not something Colombia invented, it comes from Europe and is still in use in those same European countries today.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Noelito40 says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:26:

I like the system of having a document notarized. It´s cheap (I only pay about $7k) and it is accepted by the Colombian courts in the case of dispute. Back home (in Ireland) if I had to get a document authenticated I'd have to go to a solicitor and probably pay him for an hour of his time even though his secretary would problem sign and stamp the document!

Noelito

0 funny, 0 helpful.

theflatline says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:50:

Notaries are attorneys and have to follow the letter of the law, and maintain all that lovely paperwork in Colombia that you have to get done in triplicate.

They are not your unemployed neighbor in the states who took an easy test, paid 50 bucks, and passed a minimal background check.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:55:

But why is it necessary in colombia and notthe U.S. or UK? for instance?

...and so it goes

0 funny, 0 helpful.

theflatline says on Sep 3, 2009, 16:57:

Napoleonic Law maybe? Or just maybe that is how they do things.

They wear wigs in court in the UK, but no one else does. Riddle me that one.

Think of notaries of extensions of the Palacio Nacional.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 3, 2009, 17:17:

English-speaking countries have a common law system in which notaries are of limited importance and utility. Europe and South America have a civil law system in which notaries have a lot of power, somewhat equivalent to what a justice of the peace would be here.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

capt_j says on Sep 3, 2009, 22:42:

Just out of curiousity what are typical notary fees? Say for transferring a business?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Sep 4, 2009, 09:31:

so, essentailly they are useless, but becasue people are too lazy to do things themselves and trust no one, they conjured up the notary thing to do their work for them. for me these people seem like an extra link in getting anything done. i have had to use them several times and i have never found them to be any more effective than I could be if I knew where to go. For example, why do i have to pay $10 0r $15 usd to get my signature notarized? the person i had notarize my signature never looked once at my cedula...she just made a copy of it and then told me..."Gracias feo, ahora déme 20.000 por favor." I see what they do and in all fairness, a monkey could do their job. Or maybe just maybe...me! nah!!

...and so it goes

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Shortiao says on Sep 4, 2009, 11:33:

seriously.....i don't get the notary. What is it that they DO?

They sign bits of paper and it gets passed off as evidence.

"cuando una persona toma otro pasaporte....pierde su identidad!" - Shortiao

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Noelito40 says on Sep 4, 2009, 19:01:

As far as I am told, having a document notarized (as pathetic and simple a process as that might be) means that it will be accepted in court, I'm told that if it is not notarized the other party can contest the validity of the signature and therefore document, etc...So you could be left with a contract that the other party is refusing to honour but if you go to court with that (unnotarized) document in your hand it may not be recognised. Note I'm not a lawyer so that's not gospel but suffice to say when I do business here I get all documents/contratcts notarized!

Noelito

0 funny, 0 helpful.

theflatline says on Sep 4, 2009, 21:03:

The Notary is basically the Clerk of Courts.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

davidslc46 says on Sep 5, 2009, 07:22:

The Notary is basically the Clerk of Courts.

And the business looks highly profitable.

David

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Sep 6, 2009, 09:44:

So, like I said before...these guys regardless of their education are just Clerks. Being a lawyer doesn't give it any more credence. I have an advanced degree (in fact, two of them). What does that make me…an educated idiot? But I’m still an idiot. Also, documents must be accepted in a court of law if there is an original signature…this is the only official document authorization I am aware of.

So, what is a Notary? It is part of the full employment act for all lawyers. I heard once that one of the most important aspects of any Marxist manifesto is, “First, kill all the lawyers.” A little hard, but understandable.

...and so it goes

0 funny, 0 helpful.