Non-political question: Does the "power of prayer" work in Colombia?

kernow62 says on Apr 21, 2005, 21:01:

Who's God?

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platano says on Apr 21, 2005, 21:36:

On Fox News they said the Pope is God's representative... on earth. Does this mean I should have been praying to the Pope?

Platano
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 21, 2005, 21:43:

Sure He's listening. The FARC are probably sending up their own prayers along with some really fine blow. Meanwhile your prayers are being diverted to build some bureacrat a nice finca.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Crazy4Cali says on Apr 21, 2005, 22:03:

Come on... We all know how better housing for bureaucrats will bring a quick end to the drug war.

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ARMacleod says on Apr 21, 2005, 23:27:

I suppose it comes down to 'faith' It may or may not work, depending on chance. If you believe in faith it will work, or it will not, again on chance, a kind of lottery if you like.

If there were a change of heart and all the FARC suddenly capitulated and freed all the captives you may think that your faith was justified. On the other hand if you found that they had all been killed, you may think that they had gone to a ‘better place'. Again that could be construed as if your faith had been justified.

Then again you may become a non-believer in whom or whatever you had the faith in, in the first place.

Faith?

(a) In this instance faith could mean, to have complete trust or/and confidence in something, even though there was no reasonable grounds to sustain such a belief.

(b) It could possibly mean, a blind belief in something without any explainable reason.

(c) Another common meaning would be, a religious belief. This is possibly a better explanation, since it would cover both of the previous points. The religious belief of a person is normally due to traditional influences, such as, the religion of the parents, the place and country of birth and other extraneous circumstances.

The religious belief, or faith, is further complicated by the particularly human trait of reasoning, which is not found in animals. The human is afraid not to have faith, because all religions demand this, under pain of some terrible consequence afflicting those who do not have this faith.

Me, I am 64 -10. I still have to be convinced one way or the other.


Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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elmodefoque says on Apr 22, 2005, 09:42:

i been praying to hit the NYC lottery for 20 years. NOTHING!!!!!

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 09:55:

I'm afraid faith only works for you if you have it. Otherwise, just don't bother praying because whatever the result is you'll find a reasonable explanation for it. I think prayer is quite useless activity when you could focus all that mental energy in trying to do something about the problem yourself.
Unfortunately my experience with short periods of religious activity in my life have left me quite untouched.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ARMacleod says on Apr 22, 2005, 10:14:

Elmo Those who run and profit by the NYC lottery for the last 20 years have had their prayers answered. They have your money. Hallelujah! Prayer works after all.

I have been praying that I have always got enough money to keep me until I die. It has at last come true, providing of course I do not live beyond next Thursday.

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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elmodefoque says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:02:

Ok, I’m entering a subject I know nothing about, religion. I got one question. Does “god” have something against dark poor people? why are we or they the ones that always suffer horrible natural disasters, tsunami, drought, famine and aids in Africa, monsoon rains in India, volcanoes in Colombia that wiped out over 20 thousands in minutes, earthquakes in Mexico city and me getting premature grey.
I’ve never heard of massive landslides in Aspen Colorado killing 10 thousand skiers, or an earthquake in Central Park South, NYC knocking down 10 city blocks killing all inside or massive landslide in Beverly hills that destroyed the mountain and every one on it. I watch the news all the time but I don’t remember seeing little blonde, blue eyed children hurdling in fear while the parents are laying dead next to their Volvo from a killer tornado that wiped out Greenwich Connecticut. No, is always a kid with deep dark sad eyes, looking up to the heavens and asking why the f—k do you have to screw us all the time, what the hell did we ever do to you. .

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:05:

elmo, there were plenty of blue-eyed, blond children that drowned in the tsunami in South East Asia, and many others who were orphaned there. I don't think god(s) have anything to do with it. Now, about you turning gray long before your time that just could be some kind of divine justice for your youthful sins of bestiality.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:06:

now, i'm all depress. f--k that, i'm ging to my favorite mexican restaurant and get drunk. chaooooo

I'll get there, when I get there!

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ColombianoX says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:11:

"Ok, I’m entering a subject I know nothing about, religion, I got one question. Does “god” have something against dark poor people?"

Elmo,

I also don't think that most of the people in the Twin Towers or the Pentagon on 9-11 were dark-skinned either, although those weren't natural disasters.

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:11:

in my native up bringing, beastiality is ok, as long as you don't screw your brothers burra.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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dwmte says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:30:

i have to interupt a divine sancocho... to address this matter...

lots of blond, blued babies in the tsunami...

name me just one.

and elmo...if not you, then who? from the looks/sounds of things, you've weathered the beating pretty damn well. hell if it had been one of those blond blue eyed babies from the tsunami, they'ld be yellin so loud and cryin....my LORD...what would we do?

nah, i think it's better us brown folk...we suffer quieter...and as you know, burras only yelp a little.

dw

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dwmte says on Apr 22, 2005, 11:38:

uh ho...i forgot...this is about the power of prayer... and if it works in colombia...come on platano. you're pullin my/our leg. you know it doesn't.

prayer only works at the crystal cathedral in fullerton down by disneyland. i mean, they even tell ya that on t.v. and that preacher looks like a guy you can trust...i'll even bet he sell used cars during the week...

just last week he said that he was usin all our prayer to bring in lots more money for the churches (???) expenses, and he said that because he and all ya'll prayed so hard the week before, hundreds of thousands of dollars came rollin in. wow, that church is better than the lottery, i'm gonna tell elmo.

but now that i think of it. i can remember in the early years, back in the late '80's, when i was first livin in medellin, it was so frickin wild, crazy and dangerous, i really (honestly) prayed that i'd ultimately get outta there alive. sooooooo, maybe it does work, platano...forget what i said above, pray hard.
dw

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 12:11:

douglas, there were dozens of Scandinavian kids that drowned in the tsunami...no, I can't give you any names, but I saw their names in the newspapers at that time, I saw the faces of the children rescued who had lost their parents, there's still a long list of missing presumed dead Scandinavians. Not only Scandinavians, but a lot of tourists from all over the world, no, there was no distinction between a blond or a brown-haired in the tsunami. Many schools had empty desks at the beginning of the new term in Scandinavia...fortunately our school didn't count among them. No, in a natural catastrophe like that there are no distinctions of race, skin color or eye color. Death came to all of them on equal terms.

Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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platano says on Apr 22, 2005, 12:58:

I think I'll take it up with the new Pope... who is supposed to be God's representative here on earth. Why does God allow those damn FARC gas cylinders to fall on innocent children? That's what I'll ask him. Then I'll apply the answer to other things I don't understand: poverty in Colombia, kidnapping in Colombia, etc.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 13:10:

you'll have a lot of issues to take up with the new Pope. I doubt that he can come up with any reasonable answers. He's rather far removed from the reality in Colombia and I have my serious doubts that he should really care too much either. He'll be busy maintaining the status quo, keeping up "God's work" as in Opus Dei and those 12 unlucky youngsters recently massacred in Buenaventura (tortured, their eyes plucked out) aren't really a priority of his.
Cheers (not),
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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justino says on Apr 22, 2005, 15:25:

The power in prayer is that it helps you stop worrying about things that you cannot control. But you have to believe that there's at least a possibility that someone is listening that might be able to help. At that point, you've done all you can do and you can rest easier (provided that you've truly done all you can do in the earthly sense... otherwise get off your ass).

An interesting thing I read the other day is that "Courage is fear that's said its prayers".

I'm not a religious type but I've come to realize that for me appealing to a higher being is actually practical... helps me to accept what has already happened and worry less about what might happen.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 15:37:

I can't accept the easy way out that the prayer offers. I wish I could; it'd be more comfortable and less stressful. Confiding in some divine power to solve the problems created by the man(woman)kind is just too simplistic to have any true appeal for me.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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platano says on Apr 22, 2005, 15:41:

Here is the message I sent to the Pope... Your Holiness,

Please explain to me why God allows the FARC gas cylinder attacks to kill children in Colombia.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Platano

Platano
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 22, 2005, 16:37:

oye platano ask him at the same time about these poor kids in Buenaventura found floating in a river cruelly tortured and murdered; see if his Holy Santidad has any good answers why these young people had to suffer and die like that. http://elpais-cali.terra.com.co/paisonline/notas/Abril222005/B622N1.html
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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platano says on Apr 22, 2005, 17:17:

Mi Querida Desi, I think whatever answer I get about the children who are victims of the FARC will apply equally to children who are victims of AUC or children who are victims of government Armed Forces.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 22, 2005, 17:35:

darn it, desi... why'd you have to go and take me seriously, dear? shame on you. i only jest on such weighty matters, as seriousness makes the reality that much more painful and hard to bare. i had no intention to make light out of such a racially faceless/all face tragedy. i'm aware of the multiplicity of the ethnicity of that tragedy.

and planano,

the SEE, will treat your querie seriously if you in truth send it to him by post. it would be refreshing and enlightning to hear his response. those who are given these posts are obliged to address the matters of the flock. shepherding is no small task.

next question.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 23, 2005, 05:49:

douglas it's sometimes very hard to "see" who's joking and who isn't here. The downside of internet, I s'ppose. That's why I like to add all those silly smilies when I'm kidding so that I won't be misunderstood being serious. There are a few things that not even I can joke about and one of those is the death of the innocent children. However, we all handle these things in our own way and I'm not saying your way should be any worse than mine. Probably makes life a bit easier.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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platano says on Apr 23, 2005, 07:22:

dw, my friend, I did really write to the Pope and I am going to be checking my email anxiously every day for His response.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 23, 2005, 09:25:

i always feel dumb calling you platano... sorry

in my efforts to e the pope...i'm sure it was received, but i've never heard of anyone getting an e reply...not even an acknowledgement. but hard copy (snail mail) gets a response.

maybe we should both try that.

i had a friend, who got to accompany someone to the vatican and the result was he got to meet the pope. the one before jpII.

when the pope extended his hand for my friend to kiss his ring (??), my friend, also a catholic, just shook hands with him. the pope smiled and sent one of his aides to do something. when the aide returned, he had a wonderful rosary which he gave to my friend.

nice, eh?

dw

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platano says on Apr 23, 2005, 09:32:

dw, my friend, That is a beautiful story! Thank you for sharing it.

Don't feel bad about calling me Plátano. I really am just a dumb green banana. I have lived 56 years and every year I feel I know less and less about life. Every year life's mysteriousness grows and it becomes simpler to just appreciate the little things life has to offer for free. I do not agree with those who say "nothing in life is free". To me the very fact of being alive is such a precious gift. And at this very instant of writing I am being bombarded with free gifts. Ah.... how wonderful that in-breath! Those birds singing their melodies... the breeze that just moved the window curtains... fresh air, music, and so much more.... all for free!

Platano, enamorado de la vida
Oxigeno Verde

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 23, 2005, 18:53:

yo green banana... i e'd the green oxygen folks asking about their involvement in colombia...thus far no answer.

what ever happened to fanny kurtzman? just curious. they probably got to her, too. just look at navarro wolfe...when he entered years ago and now. and the indigenous congressmen. those guys got no friends. pity.

shit...i need a (*&^*&%$ optirectomy...now. the density of the stuff goin down in the world now is touching me, deeply. it's so hard to tell the difference between the birth pangs and the death rattle.

i've always been of the 'glass is half full' mind, but these days, the hideous head of hatred and violence challenges my equilibrium and i often feel i'd like to see heads role. aint that a shame. i guess it got to me, too.

well, i hate to admit my soft spots.

i better split.

dw

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platano says on Apr 23, 2005, 23:43:

Un regalo para ti, DW... DESIDERATA

Vive plácidamente entre la premura y el bullicio, y ten presente la paz que puedes encontrar en el silencio.

Hasta donde te sea posible hacerlo sin recapitular, vive en buenas relaciones con todos.

Expresa serena y claramente lo que tengas por verdad, y presta oído a los demás incluso a los necios y a los ignorantes, que también ellos tienen algo que decir.

Evita el trato con las personas ostentosas e imperativas, que conturban el espíritu. Si das en compararte con los demás, podrías amargarte y envanecerte, pues siempre encontraras personas que valen más que tú, así como otras que valen menos.

Disfruta de tus logros como de tus proyectos.

Que el interés por tu carrera, aunque sea muy humilde, se mantenga vivo; en los vaivenes que el tiempo obra en la fortuna, tu carrera es un verdadero tesoro.

Procede con cautela en los negocios, pues en el mundo abunda el engaño; pero que ello no te ciegue a sus virtudes. Muchos son los persiguen nobles ideales y en todas partes la vida es rica en hechos heroicos.

Muéstrate tal como eres. Sobre todo, no finjas el afecto que no sientas.

Tampoco mires el amor con cinismo, pues contra toda manifestación de aridez y desencanto, el amor posee la perennidad de la hierba.

Atiende gustosamente a lo que te dice el paso de los años y renuncia con gracia a los goces propios de la juventud.

Cultiva un ánimo esforzado que te escude contra la adversidad por repentina que sea. Pero no perturbes tu espíritu con fantasías. Abundan los temores hijos de la soledad y la fatiga.

Acompaña la saludable disciplina con dulzura para contigo mismo.

Al igual que los árboles y las estrellas, tu también eres una de las criaturas del universo; tienes derecho a estar aquí. Y aunque no te lo parezca, es indudable que el universo se desarrolla como ha de hacerlo. Por tanto, vive en paz con Dios, sea cualquiera la forma como lo concibas; y cualesquiera que sean tus tareas y tus aspiraciones, consérvate en paz con tu alma en la turbulenta confusión de la existencia.

El mundo, a pesar de todas sus simulaciones, de su tráfago y sus sueños frustrados, es HERMOSO.

Se prudente.

Esfuérzate en ser dichoso.

Max Erhmann
 Poeta y dramaturgo norteamericano
 (1872-1945)

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 24, 2005, 04:48:

thanks, my friend... i needed that...

seeing chinito, one of my nietas, hiina, her mamita is japonese. she and my son are divorced and my son, immanuel, has custody. he spends all his money flying back and forth to japan taking hiina to be with her mum. he's a great lad, a good father and a most respectable son.

he handles the breakup with such class and zero resentment.,..isn't that nice?

peace, friend, if we get back to medallo this summer (i should say if i get back this summer) my wife and daughter will be there for two months. my coming depends on if i have my psssport back. if im back, we can get together for a coffee or what ever.

all the best,

douglas w

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 01:07:

Does God listen to Platano's Prayers?
'Course He does. And sometimes the answer is "NO". or WAIT.

Personally, a more constructive prayer would be

"Dear God, please soften the hearts of those in Power to stop serving Mamon and start providing Justice for the Colombian people. And please find something more constructive for the US Government to do than to sell them guns to slaughter Colombian people."

Yeah, pray for a peaceful conclusion to the crisis. But remember it's essentially a struggle between good and evil. Both sides believe that they are "good". Evil exists on all sides. Terrorism, kidnappings or any of the other social ills of Golombia can never exist in a vacuum.

But I believe that prayer for peace working in the long term. I think it brought down the Berlin Wall. I think it has been a factor in Northern Ireland and Beruit. In essense, prayer for peace or conflict resolution is a spiritual demonstration for our desire for it. War is for those who have lost hope.

My two pesos, for what they're worth

DQ

"When the church hears the cry of the oppressed it
cannot but denounce the social structures that give rise to and perpetuate the misery from which the cry arises." (Oscar Romero 8/6/78).

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