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Non Catholic marrying Catholic???

Hey there... I am a non-Catholic... in fact, I have no religion. My fiance is from Colombia.. and though he is not very religious, his family is. I was wondering if anyone knew the process for me, a non-Catholic, marrying him in a Catholic church?? What are the requirements for the church?

By scarby558 on Oct 26, 2007, 16:14 in Friendly Talkzone.

la campiña says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:22:

FORGET the formalities, think first and seriuosly about religion, I am very anti religion but am married to a colombian but " gracias a dios" she is not to intense on the subject, she does not practise but we agree to disagree and things are fine. Never underestimate the power and influence of the extended family and religion here, the spanish have got a lot to answer for !

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:37:

I went through the whole rigamarole, albeit a long time ago. Anybody with more recent experience please correct me!

!) Talk to your parish priest. I had to sign one paper stating that I will not try to convert my future spouse to my religion and another stating that any offspring of this union will be raised within the Catholic Faith.

2) Interview with the local church authorities. For me it was Monsignor XX in Cali. The wedding was authorized by him.

3) Premarital course: 4 sundays of instruction how to be a good Catholic husband/wife.

4) Booking of church, wittnesses, making the arrangements for the wedding reception

5) Church ceremony, wedding reception

6) Signing of the civil marriage documents with witnesses at the notary.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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robi666 says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:45:

Are you marrying in Colombia right?
Go to know the priest, smile, talk to him, and give him 100 USD as offer and let the family do all the rest. If the priest ask if you're confirmed say "yes".
Go to try and reserve your dress, some days in advance to fix it.
Go and get to the church 2 minutes after your future husband.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:47:

Well, I am a STAUNCH Roman Catholic I think I can add to Desideria's fine points in her post above: It's about how you will raise your children: if you'll raise them Catholic, then fine. If not, then there is a problem.

Also, please note that every Archbishop is a pope in his own diocese. Rules are slightly diffrerent depending upon the archidiocese, and so forth .

Cordially,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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msaucey says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:50:

Wow... That sounds like a whole lot.... And robi... trying to bribe a priest is kind of un-ethical no?.... Wait, forgot, Catholic church... j/k...

Wow, Desi and Plato... You all had to go through all that... That's insane!

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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robi666 says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:52:

It also helped saying that I am from Rome. The priest got kind of proud...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:54:

We asked the priest about his fee...it was a voluntary thing, you decided the amount yourself.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:54:

msaucey, it was worth it.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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robi666 says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:02:

Ok, Desi, let's see...

1) Talk to your parish priest. I had to sign one paper stating that I will not try to convert my future spouse to my religion and another stating that any offspring of this union will be raised within the Catholic Faith.

I DID IT

2) Interview with the local church authorities. For me it was Monsignor XX in Cali. The wedding was authorized by him.

NO

3) Premarital course: 4 sundays of instruction how to be a good Catholic husband/wife.

NO

4) Booking of church, wittnesses, making the arrangements for the wedding reception

Family did it

5) Church ceremony, wedding reception

OF COURSE

6) Signing of the civil marriage documents with witnesses at the notary.

NO, did it in the church

Do not forget the rings.
I had to present my passport, a "certificado de solteria" (which I presented in Italian), birth certificate (again in Italian) and a baptism certification from my church.
I got to Barranquilla on Wednesday and got married on Saturday. That's it.

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RussianFred says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:10:

Robbi is correct I am going through the same thing. I just finished a two day course, Saturday and Sunday, 7 hours each day. I do not speak spanish so the class was hell. Bring your ipod and sit in the back. I had no interview. They only required my passport, divorce certificate (not certified) and the 2 day class. This is in Medellin. You will also need about 6 photos. It's a very simple process.

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:11:

Weren't you a Roman Catholic to start with?

Yes, I forgot to mention the certificado de solteria ad the birth certificate (it was such a long time ago) baptism? I'm pretty sure I never presented that one.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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RussianFred says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:11:

The fees are 50,000 pesso for the class and 50,000 pesso for the wedding.

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:12:

Thanks for the advice everyone! Very helpful! So all this plus the requirements from the states! This will be hell!!

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robi666 says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:23:

It was not a real bribe... or it was?

Something to keep in mind...

You should not be married if you are not confirmed. If you're not, you must be confirmed and married the same day. The priest can ask you to attend an extra course.

Remember that the priest is the one and only deciding. He can marry you without even seing the certifications. He does not have to ask an authorization to the Bishop of his "diocesi". (now, for an exorcism he has to have an authorization... but that's another story)

You should publish an advice of marriage some days before.

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coffee beaner says on Oct 26, 2007, 17:35:

Religion is for the ignorant -----> here is the proof http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

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la campiña says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:02:

CB I dont even need to look at the video you are so correct, but if religion helps people I say get on with it , its when they ram it down your mouth I get very anti , we all know millions of people are dying for the "cause" it makes me sad to be english, corruption is ripe in religion and I would go as far to say there are many people with the gift of manipulation that abuse many poor people with the false hope of HOPE.Life is what it is, great for the rich and grim for the poor there is a massive trench inbetween

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:04:

YES! IT IS WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, I agree it's an administrative pain in the AAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!! But it is indeed worth it ! We're talking about marriage here. Something not to be taken lightly.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:06:

Coffee Beaner - The IGNORANT DON"T UNDERSTAND RELIGION. PERIOD!

(come on - bring it!)

PLATO

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:16:

La Campiña,

I don’t shove anything down anyone’s throat unless I’m engaged, but I do have a serious problem with people knocking my religion! Heavens forbid anyone says anything about Islam or Judaism! They’ll have people to reckon with. But Christianity seems to be open game for all- especially my beloved CATHOLIC CHURCH. Why? Because most of us Catholics are punks! Indeed. But I don’t put up with that kind of bullshit. I respect people’s beliefs so I expect the same courtesy in return.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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coffee beaner says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:22:

Plato, I already brought it... watch the video, enough said!

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:24:

Dear Mr. Robi666 (Mr. Passive Aggressive other there . . .)

You can indeed go over the priest’s head – you go to his bishop! Yes, there are priests who look at monetary incentives, but then again, there are plenty of holy priests as well!

Plato (come on – put on your Mexican rancheros now. LOL! SAPO! )

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:26:

CB,

You didn't bring squat -diddley-doo

No videos. Mano a mano via the internet. Let's go . That's all you have ???? A VIDEO???????????????? LOL!

Please . . .

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:31:

Mirá, Elmo siempre dice que el es un triple hijueputa. Fíjate que soy un quadruple hijueputa!!!!!!! Vamos . . a ver . . . Y QUE????

Platón

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Leeroy says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:42:

Oh, come on. "God does/doesn't" exist is always a silly, pointless argument.

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slguy says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:45:

I don't think anyone with any sense has problems with one's religion- it's the institutions that give us non-believers problems.

Promise to raise as Catholic, any children? To those of us non-Catholics, this only smacks of future income stream.

I would NEVER criticize anyone's beliefs, we all take comfort in whatever works best for us.

But having said that, many faiths have skeletons in the closet that aren't terrible awe-inspiring, no?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:49:

Leeroy and slguy,

I appreciate your comments - can't argue with your points. Even concede to slguy but there is a point to the Catholic Church wanting children raised Catholic. Any religion would want the same . However, what was said before you contributed to this thread was in such cavalier manner and I could not let it pass uncontested.

Cheers,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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coffee beaner says on Oct 26, 2007, 18:52:

"mano a mano" via the internet? jajajaja que maricon tan bobo! are you serious? I can already tell I'm wasting my time with you. Stay in your little cocoon of a world... like I said there is no point of even getting into a discussion since the movie sums everything up. ENOUGH SAID aguevado!

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robi666 says on Oct 26, 2007, 19:00:

"Dear Mr. Robi666 (Mr. Passive Aggressive other there . . .)"
"You can indeed go over the priest’s head – you go to his bishop!"
Uh? Am I missing something? Why do you want to go to his bishop?

"Yes, there are priests who look at monetary incentives, but then again, there are plenty of holy priests as well!"
Who told you a different thing?

"Plato (come on – put on your Mexican rancheros now. LOL! SAPO! )"
???

"Mirá, Elmo siempre dice que el es un triple hijueputa. Fíjate que soy un quadruple hijueputa!!!!!!! Vamos . . a ver . . . Y QUE????"
No... nada... thank you!

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 19:10:

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 19:11:

Robi666,

I want to add you as my friend - mi dispiace, per piacere? Italians have a special place in my heart. We got off on the wrong foot to begin with.

(Robi, the bishop is the boss, as you know. If a priest is acting improperly, you go over his head.)

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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RussianFred says on Oct 26, 2007, 19:45:

I think in my next life I will become a minister and have my own plane from the donations of poor people.

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 20:00:

shit! ouch

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 20:02:

Scarby558 - Please pay no mind to that. It's easy to take shots at anything involving religion but very difficult to defend their position. They may even refer you to a video!!! LOL!

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 20:29:

hahahahaha! Don't worry Plato, I gotcha ;)

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gold digger says on Oct 26, 2007, 20:38:

Maybe one day I'll join a religion that killed millions of innocent people just for having a different God, but not today.
At least you can feel the sun God .. oops, did I say that out loud?

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:06:

Gold Digger,

Which religion are you talking about? Please be direct - I am.

Sun God? Are you a witch? Do you practice wicca? One of my good friends is a witch but we don't discuss religion. He's a great man - an Aussie; I just don't agree with his religious views, that's all. He knows I'm a staunch Catholic as well. Good friends we are . We can be too.

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:10:

I'm really sorry everyone... I didn't mean for this to get so heated... I know religion is controversial, but goodness... the question was regarding marriage between a non Catholic (not saying i am Atheist or anything... i just have not decided what i believe or don't believe (please don't start to argue about this)) and a Catholic... and the wedding would preferably be in Colombia.. in a Catholic church? And I thank those that have answered the question.
To everyone else... you'll need to relax... everyone has the right to think whatever they want.. believe whatever they want. If they are not dictating to you what you should think, feel, believe, than what right is it of yours to push your beliefs on them??

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billyb says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:16:

Before we get too misty eyed about the native religions of America, let's remember that the Aztecs sacrifised 4 million people (mostly slaves from other indigenous tribes) at their great pyramid during their heyday in the name of their "religion". And the Incas and others were doing the same. All religions suck.

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:17:

Scarby558,

No worries, Scarby. It's Friday night I was having my Scotch after a tough work week. This is light stuff. I argue about this stuff all the time. Hell, I'm a professional apologist and teach students on the subject. Don't ever believe that sex, religion, and politics is not worth discussing. Lastly, people should respect the opinions and beliefs of others.

Warm regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:21:

BillyB, can't argue with facts. However, can't agree with you, my friend, that all religions suck. People make religions suck, not religious principles.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:27:

Agreed. Nicely stated, Plato.

Les deseo lo mejor y se cuidan!!

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:29:

scarby, good last post. I agree. My wife is Catholic. Officially, I am Methodist, my grandpa from Germany was a Lutheran minister. Even though neither of us are practicing our faiths in a church, that doesn't matter to us. The way I see it, we are on the same team, so to speak. I have much respect for the Catholic denomination. I personally have no problem with our children being raised Catholic. I wouldn't worry about the religion aspect too much if I were you, pertaining to your marriage. If she wants a Catholic wedding, big deal. As long as you agree to certain terms, like posters said above, it will be a sanctioned union. I doubt those terms are anything that would concern you, judging by your responses. Good luck and congratulations.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:35:

Awww you're so kind!! and you know what? you're completely right! I don't mind my future children (if I decide to have them) being Catholic. My mother is Catholic as is my fiance and his entire family! Thank you Robert Jorge!

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billyb says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:40:

Plato, you are right, it's not the religions themselves, but the people who miss use them for their own purposes. Although you have to question a religion that requires human sacrifices. or ones that reward suicide, or worse, suicide that includes killing innocents.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 26, 2007, 21:46:

Scarby, I apologize for using the words "If she wants" ... I should have put "if he wants". I keep forgetting your a female. lol Anyway, I appreciate your great attitude. You guys will do great. Keep us updated!!

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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scarby558 says on Oct 26, 2007, 22:01:

hahaha no problem! I certainly hope I don't look like a male though hahaha :S maybe I will change the picture hahaha! I will definitely keep ya'll posted. Thanks a bunch!

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billyb says on Oct 26, 2007, 22:09:

Like Desi, my dad, an anglican, had to agree to all those stipulations to marry my mom, a catholic, in Colombia, but since he could give a chit either way, it wasn't a big deal for him. Then again anglican and catholic doctrine is very similar.

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john_stark says on Oct 26, 2007, 22:23:

You have to promise you'll only have sex in the missionary position.

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 26, 2007, 23:20:

Promises are meant to be broken.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 26, 2007, 23:21:

It is a great postion though.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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scarby558 says on Oct 27, 2007, 00:49:

hahahahahhaha! I love this website!!! Way to go Peter!

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Cerealkiller says on Oct 27, 2007, 02:40:

Scarby I am not sure about the way it works, but I think you have to convert and get baptized. My dad is jewish and my mom is catholic, both of them refuse to yield an inch when it comes to that sort of stuff. Hence, they never got married. Still together, and very happy. SO I dunno, its your wedding, youre the bride so you decide how and where you want to get married...if you want catholic church because you like it -not because his family is catholic- then go for it, and good luck.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 02:49:

Desi I went trough all of that too, my husband is not religious, he said if he knew he had to go through all of that just because he wasn't catholic, he would have said he was catholic y punto.

engage brain before opening mouth

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 02:51:

And this Premarital course was stupid he couldn't understand what the priest was talking about and I couldn't care less so we sat at the back of the room and started to play knots and crosses heheh

what Catholic priest know about marriage! or PMS :)))

engage brain before opening mouth

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 02:53:

NO, CK, if the laws haven't changed. A non-catholic may marry a Catholic in a religious ceremony that takes place in a Roman Catholic church and is officiated by a Roman Catholic priest. It's called a Mixed Marriage. The rite is slightly different, no the Holy Communion is not given (the Catholic spouse will have to get it at the morning/evening Mass) and the documents I mentioned in my post will have to be signed by the non-Catholic partner prior to the ceremony.

Yet, the priest may refuse to marry them, we were denied a marriage ceremony at my husband's parish but had no problem at mine.

I'm nominally Lutheran, but not a religious person. I just wanted to wear the traditional white bridal attire with train and veils....hahahhaa

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 02:58:

Hahahaha Kat, the funniest part was the sexual education bit given by nuns and priests...half of the to-be-brides were about six months pregnant already ...and then the priest asked if anybody had any questions and this one guy yelled "what time is this over?"

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 03:14:

LOL Desi, i think it was a little too late jajajaj

we felt like that guy.. jajajajja

engage brain before opening mouth

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dwmte7 says on Oct 27, 2007, 05:32:

i'm a catholic and practice. my kids are catholic although 6 of the 8 are from different mothers. when i married in envigado (medellin) i had to produce all those divorce documents and that was a trip...especially since i was doing it all from colombia. the issues/problems, developed when i explained to my most dear priest at santa barbara in envigado, that in our family it's a tradition to be married by the priest who baptized us. i'm from an era when a priest remained in his parish all his life.

i went to the curia in villa nueva downtown in barrio prado and spoke with the monsigor (bishop) and asked if i could be re-baptized so i could enjoy our tradition. he said, 'no' as you can only be baptized once. i offered, in defense of my argument, that my parents had me baptized, i had nothing to do with it. now, i wanted to choose the process for my self and for upholding our family beliefs. finally he forwarded the matter to the cardinal of colombia in bogota, i believe. the result was, i was given a 'cardinalic' dispensation to be baptized anew.

the marriage was small but awsome. i received communion (the eucharist) three times during the same marriage ceremony. the first for baptism, the second for communion, and the third for marriage. whew! i was so rushed by the experience. my priest--to this day--fr. otoniel, said this must be a first within the catholic church. he had never heard of someone being re-baptized and receiving communion three times.

now regarding some of the attacks against others and their beliefs, above. i can only ask why? did the commenter gain something in their attacks? i think not. you might as well throw rocks in the mud....you only splash yourself. faultfinding is a cardinal sin, it serves no more than to show how small someone is and to serve--in most cases--bringing pain on others. so again, where is the gain?

we are SSOOOOOO quick to put on the gloves, and so SLOOOW to take them off.

if you are for peace, peace be with you. if you are for war, i have been so too. (thomas vaughn)

dwmte

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jaramillo says on Oct 27, 2007, 06:17:

I had a very similar experience to Desi: I'm a Catholic and my wife is Episcopalian. Desi mentions that the non-catholic partner will not receive communion because, as the Catholic church asserts, they are NOT in communion. Of course, marriage and the Eucharist are separate sacraments, so communion is not necessary in weddings.

But notice this scarby: if you have no religion (e.g. you are an atheist) a catholic priest cannot marry you, period. And even if he does, it is almost certain that a Catholic tribunal would declare the marriage null if you separate and your spouse appeals for an annulment. The church believes that an atheist cannot enter into a sacramental marriage. You might not care, of course, but you should know about it and he should too.

Best wishes to both of you.

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Plato says on Oct 27, 2007, 06:32:

Hello Scarby,

Jaramillo brought up a good point. Check into it anyway. Catholic doctrine has it that the non-Catholic spouse receives graces through the Catholic spouse.

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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jaramillo says on Oct 27, 2007, 07:38:

Thanks Plato. As Plato said, it's something to check into. Disregard my "period", I did not mean to speak ex-cathedra.

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scarby558 says on Oct 27, 2007, 09:34:

mmmm... this could present a problem. Thanks a lot guys, I will look into it.

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coffee beaner says on Oct 27, 2007, 09:35:

"Just as I suspected - punking out. We can't debate what's in your brain because you ain't got shit in your brain! Marica hijueputa!"

I don't punk out... I actually like debating in regards to religion, but when a moron like you states "lets go mano a mano" I can't take them serious. Your a cyber-capo or what? When you grow up a little I am more then willing to debate politics and religion with you. Ahhh, y mi mama nunca fue puta ni soy marica... pero usted demas debe saber muy bien sobre el tema. Hablamos despues casposo.

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gringolondinense says on Oct 27, 2007, 09:39:

calm down putamadres !! ahha!

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Chelesupercono says on Oct 27, 2007, 10:23:

religion: Stupid is as Stupid does....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 10:31:

Take your fight somewhere else. This is a serious thread and will stay on topic.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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robi666 says on Oct 27, 2007, 11:09:

Desi, if one fight with another, and they do not ask for your "protection", or do not begin to ask to delete anything or to complain, why pull the trigger?

Listen, I was insulted (lord, no, not many times) and I never did it back, but, usually, I know why i deserved that. One has just to pull the right trigger... and... well you understand how to recognize those kind of persons in here. By their macho profile, by their vocabulary, etc. It is fun in a way...

After all, it just helps to show themselves to the others. Insults talk by themselves.

Seeing other persons fight does not bother anyway. Kind of entertaining and help to know each other...

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dwmte7 says on Oct 27, 2007, 11:40:

mercy me...take off the gloves and put on a smile. it makes life lighter and nicer.

dwmte

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 11:44:

No robi, you're misinterpreting me. Nobody is asking or needing any "protection", Just see me as the cleaning lady. What I just did was equivalent of telling a couple of teenagers put the trash in bin instead of throwing it on the floor.

I won't have every thread deteriorate into a mindless bickering.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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robi666 says on Oct 27, 2007, 11:48:

Getting back to the thread and being practical.

Again, the priest can pretty do whatever he decides it is to do. Yes, he has some rules to follow, but, once he consciently decides and celebrates the marriage, that's it. The wedding makes its way into the book.
The cerimony is sacred.

What can happen? Is someone going to make a protest to the bishop? Or will they check if you follow your promises, or if you presented the right papers? It will be a problem of conscience, just that.

To declare a Catholic marriage invalid is a long (and very expensive) process, involving the "Sacra Rota".

So, normally you have to convince the father and he usually wants to follow the rules dictated by the church and his bishop. For a problem of conscience and to not run the risk of being called by the bishop in case something go wrong.

As for papers, past life, etc.: all depends on what he decides.

Now, saying that you're an atheist and refusing to follow the rules for the simple reasons to not loose your time will not help his decision and he will NOT marry you.
Talking about your best intention may help to skip some part of the process, like translating and put apostillas on the docs.

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jaramillo says on Oct 27, 2007, 12:01:

"To declare a Catholic marriage invalid is a long (and very expensive) process"

It takes about a year, and it is not expensive at all (at least in the U.S.). I have a friend (not code for "me") finishing the process; paid not a penny. As far as I know the decision is made by a local archdiocesan tribunal. The Sacra Rota (Rome's appellate tribunal) is usually not centrally involved, as far as I know (unless one of the parties appeals).

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robi666 says on Oct 27, 2007, 12:04:

Wow... I always thought it was a big business involving the Sacra Rota in the Vatican, and infact it was... may the things got different in the last few years?

It is a big surprise to me, Jaramillo. Do you know anything more about that particular case?

I'll try a google search.

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jaramillo says on Oct 27, 2007, 12:10:

I think you're right robi, annulment used to be quite a big deal and Rome was typically involved, AND it was expensive. I think it varies somewhat by country, and it seems to me that it is easier in the U.S. than in Colombia. I've heard rumors that the Vatican tried to reign a bit the ease with which annulment was granted in the U.S., but don't know for sure. Also, although the matter in handled by a local tribunal, it might be that final approval requires the Rota. Don't know for sure. BTW, expenses are determined, partly, by your ability to pay. My friend was stretched (in the middle of a divorce) so they said don't worry. I know at least another case in which the interested party paid u.s. $ 400. (I don't consider that very expensive).

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robi666 says on Oct 27, 2007, 12:16:

Reading wilkipedia (Sacra rota, Catholic marriage and annulment) help to put things in a context.

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Plato says on Oct 27, 2007, 13:10:

Desi - my comments stay here. People can't go on insulting others with out getting away with it.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Plato says on Oct 27, 2007, 13:14:

CB,

Mano a mano - let's go. I want to know what you know about religions and why.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 13:22:

Can't you guys start a new thread off-topic?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Plato says on Oct 27, 2007, 14:29:

CB,

I retracted my insult towards you. If you want to debate on religion, fine - in another thread.

Your comment "Religion is for the ignorant" was uncalled for especially when the author of this thread needed to know something regarding rules of marriage in the CC.

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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slguy says on Oct 27, 2007, 14:40:

Desi's right, as usual.

The OP asked for help in understanding the process- not a mudslinging crapfest.

I LOVE debating religion, it brings out the best in everyone ;), but that kind of fight is why Peter created "offtopic"....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Plato says on Oct 27, 2007, 14:58:

O.k. Desi and SLguy,

I'll start a thread in the off-topic section. I will not pursue the matter here any further. My apologies to Scarby558.

Regards,

Plato

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those [liberals] who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.--Dante Alighieri, (1265-1321)

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scarby558 says on Oct 27, 2007, 15:13:

No apologies necessary, Plato. No problem. Thank you all for the information... It has been enlightening :)

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msaucey says on Oct 27, 2007, 15:19:

Scarby, I'm one of those Catholics that is a non-practicing catholic because my views in life and my lifestyle go against the church.... But, all that doesn't matter to your OP... You're in Maryland... One of my good friends has a great personal relationship with his priest in Baltimore... My suggestion would be, talk to a priest in person... You may be able to start some of these processes now and not have to worry about them in Colombia... From my understanding this priest is one of those good Irish Priest that keeps things real and not as intimidating as some others.... I can get you his information if you're interested...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 15:20:

Thank you, plato

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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scarby558 says on Oct 27, 2007, 15:59:

aww that could be great msaucey!

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robi666 says on Oct 27, 2007, 16:13:

" I know at least another case in which the interested party paid u.s. $ 400. (I don't consider that very expensive)"
No Jaramillo, that's not expensive. I know of a couple of cases in Rome and the expenses were in the range of 150k euros. There are only a few lawyers (specialized in "diritto ecclesiastico") who are entitled to compare in front of the Sacra Rota.
Now, we are quite sure that scarby won't run that risk, true?

Some numbers:
In 2002 there have been 1280 requests to the Sacra Rota. 323 by Italian couples, 183 by Americans, 100 by couples from Polland.

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scarby558 says on Oct 27, 2007, 23:49:

True.

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dwmte7 says on Oct 30, 2007, 20:13:

talking with a priest is an obvious first step...talking with a latino priest supercedes the former. talk with a bishop if you can gain audience.

all priests/bishops/cardinales are not stiff shirts without a clue about the real world. less than 3-4 mos into my marriage, the bishop sort of interviened and offered an annulment. i didn't ask, it was his suggestion. there was no suggestion that we'ld have to get someone's ok in rome. the way monsignor made it sound, it could be a done deal, quick. i just didn't take him up on the deal...although i must admit, i would have saved my self a shit load of grief and pain had i taken his suggestion. i stuck to the doctrine and continue to ride out the storm. it's ok, she's ok, marriage is ok, we're ok, the church is ok, our family is ok and i believe most of you folks out there in viewer land are ok. ok? ok.

dwmte

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