no puedo hablar inglés

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 16:13:

It's an interesting question.

I met lots of colombians who claimed Spanish was harder to learn than English. I really don't think this is true. There could be lots of reasons to your observation:

1. Exposure -- I live in a small Canadian town; few speak Spanish. In an American city, presumably Spanish exposure is better. Spanish TV shows and movies are widely available in the EEUU. English movies are widely available in some Latin and South American countries, but not so much in Colombia. In Argentina, English songs are very popular (such as great classical works like "My Humps" By The Black Eyed Peas Philharmonic Orchestra). Colombians like their vallenatos and are somewhat more isolated from global trends.

2. Effort -- Anyone has to work at learning another language. Tourists to Colombia know that they will likely need at least some basic expressions, and learn some (or improve their) Spanish. I have argued before that the number of English speaking tourists in Colombia is relatively small, outside of Cartagena. This might reduce the incentive to learn English.

3. Costs -- I bet every paisa dreams of learning English. Even the ones I met with gringo novios felt that learning English could only be done with formal courses, "muy caro". I was astonished at how little English these paisas spoke given the potential for informal exposure. I heard basic English-Spanish translation tapes on sale at Bogata street corners. Knowing the word "pencil" is a start but won't get you too far in conversation.

4. Education -- No doubt most gringos choose their novia based mainly on past education and intelligence ;)

5. Vocabulary -- English has many more words than Spanish. Also many more irregular verbs, spellings and obscure phrases.

6. Need -- In many places their is a spanish speaking community in place and you can get by without speaking English. This is apparently a disincentive in Miami, for example.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 2, 2007, 16:23:

I think Spanish speakers have a handicap for learning to speak English...but I'm not quite sure what it is. I still have to meet a native Spanish speaker who speaks English without an accent. I suspect that the phonetics of these two languages are so totally different that it makes it very difficult for a Spanish speaker to speak English without an accent and vice versa (I have not met one single native English-speaker who does not have an accent in Spanish). There are some, totally bilingual people who learned Spanish/English before the age of ten who can handle it, but not one who learned the other language at an adult age.

Anybody here who want to prove me wrong?

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 2, 2007, 20:22:

Weird I know a lot of Colombians who speak great English. All have been very well-educated, though, and most have lived abroad in one form or another (not always in English speaking countries).

I don't think Colombians as a whole have any worse time learning English than your average anglophone Gringo has learning Spanish. But it's ALWAYS hard for a grown adult with no exposure to learning foreign languages to suddenly pick one up.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 20:23:

My stepdaughter came here at the age of 10 and could not speak any English. Within a year she learned English. Now after three years, she speaks without any accent whatsoever. Her brothers who were older than her speak very good English but with accents. Of course the accents drive the gringas wild so it may be beneficial as far as they are concerned.

As for why Colombians do not learn English, the answer is simple. They are inordinately proud of their Spanish and they simply do not want to learn English. They'll say they want to but they make no effort to actually learn and practice. I rarely encounter a Colombian either here or in Colombia who can speak more than a few words of English. When they encounter someone who can't speak Spanish, they simply repeat themselves louder and more emphatically hoping that somehow, magically, the listener will understand them.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2007, 20:48:

Was this your experience at a Walmart? That is such and ignorant, unfunded shit!. That tells what kind of uneducated people you are associating with. My brother that lives here in L.A. is a Radiologist at a big hospital, and some of my friends are professionals and business people that live here in the USA. They might have an accent but I bet they are more educated and speak better than you would.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:01:

Really Lisa Zee? I have a B.A. in English, a law degree and a B.S. in Mathematics and Computer Science. So your brother's a radiologist? Big deal. My wife supervises about 75 people but she still can't speak English worth a damm.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:03:

BTW, try re-reading your post. "That is such and ignorant, unfunded shit!. That tells what kind of uneducated people you are associating with." That was an example of muddled English if I ever read one.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

mecca says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:10:

oh jesus not a lawyer... we need a revolution in this country Shakespeare style..asap...

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:12:

I gave up practicing law because I did not see it as a productive use of my time. We need less lawyers and more scientists and engineers.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

adrimm says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:16:

Azul, I'm guessing that you live in an area where there is a sizable community of expat spanish-speakers. My observation #1 is that with most groups of immigrants is that if they are in proximity to a large enough community in their native tongue and living day to day life (or having one's only circle of friends within that comunity) then there really isn't as much incentive or need to learn the language. OTOH (#2) toss anyone into a situation where *no one* else speaks the language then, that person will learn the new tongue quickly - becuase communication is essential for day to day life.

BUT there is also a third piece that applies to Colombians

The third piece (#3) that applies to Colombians learning the local language is socializing. If for whatever reason the spanish-speaking social pool is seen as inadequate then my observation is that, perhaps more than others latin americans, Colombians will seek out locals to socialise with (and of course learn the local language). Part of that national pride seems to colour many colombians perceptions about other hispanics (my mother's generation is terrible for this - I'm regularly appalled by what she seems to think about people from just about any other country in Latin America).


-----------------------------------------------------------------
These days one of the disincentives for anyone learning another language is probably the internet and the ease of global communication that now exists.

1) why watch or read news in a new language when you can log on and read or watch news in your mother tongue online (I'm guilty of this - I prefer reading news in English no matter where I am). You can still log on to your favourite forum and talk as usual in your own language.

2) You can pick up and call your family & friends, video conference. Its so easy to talk to people who are far away these days that people don't have to rely on having a local support network - they can keep their close friends and call twice a week. Once upon a time, becuase you moved, you'd never have contact with people who were part of regular life in a previous location.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:18:

A degree in B.S.!? Do you mean... BULL SHIT! ja.ja.ja. You are so educated, quit a 'catch'. IS THIS WHY YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR WIFE IN AMIGOS.COM???? JA.JA.JA.
Do not judge Colombians on your wife example. I don`t think, anyone in Colombia that has education, will be looking to find a mate on amigos.com. AND THAT IS 'JUST MY OPINION'
And go ahead and rant and be obnoxious as usual. I won't be around to read, because I have a life!.

mecca says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:18:

now that is the best thing i have ever seen here on pbh bravo....acutally we need NO lawyers....the day is comming...and i just hope i'm here to see it....when they are drug into the streets by the people.....

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:18:

English is a dichotomous language -- easy to speak badly, more impenetrable and inscrutable when spoken verbosely. Augmentation of doublespeak and legalese does little to facilitate bilateral communication; indeed the very purpose of bureaucratese and jargon is frequently to cultivate miscomprehension. Accordingly, literati often fail to express themselves in the coherent patois of the proliteriat. Professionals and business people in the USA or Colombia may be educated, speak well and communicate badly -- you may have been impressed when the radiologist said you had pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, but what does it all mean? I have met a number of Colombians who speak excellent English, and many more who do not. I'd like to know why not.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

adrimm says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:20:

UTC I have several younger cousins who can quite abley engage me in english conversation for as long as I like, and other older ones who have managed understandable (if a little mangled) messages in english on the answering machine when calling up.

Everyone has exposure to different sorts of people in Colombia, just because you aren't meeting or know Colombians with English skilla or interest in learning English does not mean it isn't there.

It might be more common among some groups than others, but trust me it is there.

southern151 says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:21:

It almost seems as though Lisa was waiting for UTC to make that post! SHUT UP already!

Lisa, it seems as though you were the only person that took offense to what he said. I read and then re-read and still...Nope. No offense. I think that this is a pretty good post, BTW. I had the good fortune of meeting several Colombians that spoke great English in Colombia. They were ALL college educated and had spent time in the US.

southern151 says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:29:

I also repeatedly had the... talk louder in spanish so the gringo still won't understand me problem. Once was by a police officer and many times in stores and restaraunts. That isn't only a Colombian thing though. I have had numerous Mexicans do the same.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:30:

It always perplexes me when people tell me that they've met Colombians who can speak English. Maybe in El Poblado but we don't spend any time there ever. The only guy I've met who even speaks marginal English is a Bogota law professor that was educated at the British school there. He's the boyfriend of one of my wife's sisters (oh I forgot, I only socialize with the rif raff!). He loves to practice his English with me but when it comes time for a real conversation, we do so in Spanish.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:36:

American tourists are also well known in Europe for the "let's try tslking louder in English" gambit. This problem is universal and not unique to Spanish speakers.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:39:

Lisa Zee, you've been out of Colombia so long that I'm not sure you remember it any longer. A widow of 42 with three children has ZERO marriage prospects in Colombia. Her children were content that she remain single the rest of her life but she was not. By putting her profile on amigos she was actually hoping to meet someone in Colombia but sadly no Colombians responded with marriage in mind. Sex yes, marriage no. As for myself, I lived in a remote rural area near Mexico and thought I might meet a nearby Mexicana for company. I had no interest in meeting Colombianas in particular nor would I recommend to any gringo that they seek a Colombiana for a spouse even though I myself am very happily married.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

mecca says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:48:

right on point.....UTC that's exactly right....in fact..a 30 year old woman in colombia with no children has not too many prospects to marry. once they hit 30 with or without children it, unfortunately, is like a 50 year old woman in the states. i see it all the time with my colombian friends, we see a "somewhat hot" 30 year old woman and they ask me why i'd even be interested and turn their attention to the table of 20 year olds with no baggage, and the 20 year old's are always interested in good looking colombianos or gringos... it's just a fact of colombia.

miamimike says on Mar 2, 2007, 21:59:

Here in Miami I have met many Colombians BUT of Those who speak English above a Basic Level, very few. This goes for Mexicans, Cubans also. Most who dominate both Langauges were born here or came here very young like UTC's stepchildren. Some studied in Colombia in a Bi-lingual school so this is a great help if they pursue advanced english classes. Those who come here after 30 yr of age seldom learn English above the hello,thank you, how much does that cost ect. There is NO excuse in Miami as in Every Neighborhood they offer free English lesson so access is no excuse. While even after attending class, they may not speak accent free but at least try classes for 2-3 years! I have also observed in the Homes that rarely is the TV or Radio on in English. Newspapers(not in the home usually) and magazines are in Spanish so between having NOT these 4 mediums(tv, radio, magazines, newspapers) in Spanish instead of English, they lose a big oppurtunity to farther their English langauge. Its not that the oppurtunity isn't here but it requires hard work and sacrifice like many natives here who work(ed) days and attend(ed) night school as many Americans had to do with their Education. Land of Oppurtunity if you grab it by the Horns!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

poco says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:04:

Ha, that's nothing My brother that lives here in L.A. is a Radiologist at a big hospital, and some of my friends are professionals and business people that live here in the USA.

A friend living in Houston is a rocket scientist at NASA, I had a girl friend who could painlessly choke a chicken and the girl I’m with in Colombia can perform any external medical or chiropractic procedure including a twice daily examination for Testicular Cancer. More if appropriate.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:06:

Well Mr. UTC I must admit, this is the first time you write eloquent and make sense. I agree with you and respect your decision.
I do not write English very well(I never HAD to work really!)But I speak very well and have great social skills and could be a public speaker!.
I do take offence when you people generalize because most of my friends speak English perfect!
And do not attack me personally, because I will fight back!

southern151 says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:15:

Personal Attacks? You mean like these Lisa? I agree personal attacks are childish. Unfortunately, these were the only real examples of personal attacks that I could find...

"Do you mean... BULL SHIT! ja.ja.ja. You are so educated, quit a 'catch'. IS THIS WHY YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR WIFE IN AMIGOS.COM???? JA.JA.JA."

"They might have an accent but I bet they are more educated and speak better than you would."

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:18:

Lisa Zee, your written English is fine. I'm honestly not sure what upset you about this thread. People were reporting their personal experiences.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:24:

Lisa, you need to check the 'girls looking for guys' section In amigos.com. Actually, quite a few Colombianas at least claim to have a whole lot of education, there. I don't think people are lying too much, online about those things. If they are genuine, they know, they will be 'found out'. So, why lie up front, to begin with?

You ought to give it up, getting off on the case of UTC and his wife from amigos.com. He (and I) are not the only ones to use that medium. A few hand-fulls of ladies I wrote to there, were all good genuine people. I decided to chase one, and although she doesn't have a college education, she still works her ass off as a sales professional, hustling from early morning til the day's end, to provide a damned good living and education for her sons (who have no father) in Colombia.

AND SHE CAN'T SPEAK A LICK OF ENGLISH! LOL!!!
"Hi Baby"
"I Love You"
"Me 2!"
"My name is _________; Nice to MEETCHEW!"
"I M verrry good; how arrre you?"

Yeah! I laugh and roar and roll on the floor, when she starts! All out of Love, of course;

Five freakin lines in two years!

Catch up with the times, LZ.

There are alot of very healthy reasons for meeting people for serious relationship online; it's 2007! not 1975, Dear.
Online is just like real life, today. Just like pbh; you're gonna meet all kinds there. You're gonna have to sift through a few. But, if you know what you're lookin for,...whatever the medium, it ain't gonna take long to find it.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:26:

Man Tequila.... you would need to go back and read some posts, from the month just before you joined onto pbh, and then you would understand... and get a few good laughs.

Some people take themselves a lil too serious, here, there, and everywhere. It looks like some still are. ;0

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:31:

Far be it from me to know, but.....it has been said by the language professionals, that english is one of the tougher languages to learn and master.

And, on the other hand, it has been said by many of the teenagers here in my 'french-dominated' southern Louisiana town that they took spanish because they heard it was easy.

As G5 would say: NUFF SAID.

and, thank you.

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:34:

I lurked on this board for about five months before posting anything, and have some idea about the way things work here.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:36:

and, one more thing! every time someone (like my novia) tells me (about someone else in Colombia): "they speak english"....THAT PERSON ENDS UP, DON'T KNOW SHIT FOR ENGLISH! LOL! Every time someone in Colombia tells me they speak english, it's like talking to someone from Istanbul! jejeje

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:37:

oh, shit; you are a ..... Lurker?

and, thank you.

Man Tequila says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:47:

(Cue Steve Miller's "The Joker")

I'm a lurker,
I'm a vulture,
I'm a midnight mulcher.
Drinking Aguila in the sun.
I'm a joker,
I'm a toker,
I'm a chuuuuchaaaa poker...

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:47:

YOU ARE ALWAYS PUTTING COLOMBIANS DOWN! I have always believe the first thing any foreigner has to do is learn the language where they go. I started talking after 3 months of being here, My brother did not let me have Spanish friends because he wanted me to lean English. I always hate when I am at a restaurant or store and the clerk, waitress does not speak correctly. I take so much pride on my English and I try to improve it every day! SO I don`t want to heard that Colombians can't speak English. Okayyyyy.
I don`t want to argue or insult anyone.
The truth is I only joint this great site, because I sell real state in Medellin, I have houses and apartments to sell, in every 'barrio' at many different prices. I found my firs tenant here at PBH, and I started reading, and I liked very much and I think it is very entertaining. But sometimes I don`t want to waste my time, BECAUSE NO MATER WHAT ANYONE SAYS.... EVERYONE DESAGREES!

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:48:

m tequila... yer quilin me, with laughter.

and, thank you.

Rubito says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:50:

Learning English and Spanish I think it is a LOT harder to learn English if you only speak Spanish than vice versa. Spanish is a much better structured language. You have to learn a lot of new concepts to speak Spanish properly, like the subjunctive for example, but once you get your brain around that and a few other things it's pretty smooth sailing.

As for pronouncing, there are two MAJOR differences between English and Spanish. One is that when we stress a syllable in English, we get louder and we also pause. In Spanish they only get louder, NO pause. So this accounts for why English speakers feel Spanish speaker are talking like machine guns.

The other one is that in English we learn to listen for consonants MORE than vowels to decipher spoken words. Try it for yourself, say a word like 'motherfucker' repeatedly, change the vowels in it, make them all the same vowel, all the same DIFFERENT vowel. The word still comes though loud and clear. We are used to being lazy with our vowels and open to pronouncing vowels differntly. That is the essence of the gringo accent in Spanish, not nailing the vowels properly. I speak Spanish with a slight accent that gets more pronounced if I'm tired or drunk or whatever. I have no interest in completely eliminating my accent, it would take lots of work, and anyways, my accent is my calling card ;)

Learning to pronounce English is even more challenging because English has 11 vowels and Spanish only has 5. Some of those 6 vowels not existing in Spanish are VERY difficult to get out of a Spanish-speaking mouth. Habits can be hard to break sometimes. Not to mention English syntax is almost nonexistent and there is SOO much slang in our daily usage that it changes almost from person to person.

My gf in the 2 years I have known her has went from speaking NO English to being able to get by. I think this year will be the year she gains fluency, but she works her ass off at it every day without fail.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:50:

reminds me of an old Dave Mason song I heard this morning on the radio, from the 70's; 'It's only you and me, and we jus disagreeee' eee-ee-eee!"

But, we don't have to.... lol, LZ

and, thank you.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 2, 2007, 22:57:

Hey Galecito No te ofendas, no quise lastimarte , ni a ti ni a nadie. Yo te entiendo y se de tu bella historia y me parece muy linda, no te preocupes, ni te des por aluido. Solo que no me gusta que hablen 'paja' ni nada que no es cierto. Tu eres una buena persona.

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 23:03:

rubito.... are you talking about a gf who lives in Colombia? I think. right? not one who lives in usa. You make some good points, about the differences.

and, thank you.

Rubito says on Mar 2, 2007, 23:18:

I am We are hoping to get her ass up here in the summer to help her practise. Of course NYC is now 51% Spanish speaking, hardly a great place for complete immersion. The area where I live now is mostly Dominican and Mexican.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

goin_south says on Mar 2, 2007, 23:31:

Rubito, I think Man Tequila would be helpful, likely in writing a few new verses for that NEW NATIONAL ANTHEM.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 3, 2007, 00:35:

Okay, you cry babies in todo espanol... for God's sake; I do know a few Colombians who speak perfect english. Even one who has posted here. But, he is not pretty, and I do not want to kiss him. ;)

and, thank you.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 3, 2007, 01:54:

I kinda agree with rubi here. The only ones that I've met who are perfectly bilingual and totally accent-free are people who learned English at an early age and by total immersion. This does not mean that there aren't Colombians(substitute "Colombians" for any native Spanish speaker, including Spaniards)that speak great English and learned it at an adult age, just that a trace of accent usually remains, and it has to do mostly with the vowel sounds as Rubito said. Not only that, but also certain consonants remain tricky (b/v, d, hard or aspirated p,k,t for example) and the intonation and rhythm of the English language.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Monpirri says on Mar 3, 2007, 04:10:

I agree with Lisa let me start by saying that agree with Lisa Lee' comments. I understand her motives to get upset with people who love to post bull shit about Colombia and they do not know much about colombians or Colombia.

I have a question that it has been bothering a bit. Utopiacowboy, in the states, as you know, large companies and as popular as Toyota require that their employees learn English to able to communicate with rest of the personnel.
I would say that a company as Toyota would require that their Supervisors to speak English. You have said that your wife does not speak English because she does not have to since she has built a network of friends in her neighborhood who do not know or care to learn English. How does your spouse manage work without not knowing English in Toyota? I have never heard of such case, but it sounds very interesting.
I have a friend who is a lawyer and works for Toyota.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

elchantajista says on Mar 3, 2007, 07:59:

good thread I agree with Rubito I know a few Mexican who were not born in EE UU thier english skills are equal to a gringo but they started when they were young, it a fact that the later u start the harder it is......., I started when I was 13 yrs old, and I do have a gringo accent when i talk, but I start to lose it when i speak just spanish for a period of time.....As for as the on going discussion between Lisa and UTC there r two sides u have to look at...... mi querida Lisa i see why u gets so upset and PBH has to look at everthing not just this thread it's kinda like when u rub salt on a wound, it gets very irratated very fast ,..... I think it's great u r trying to master english, it's show a lot of Class and I believe u r a classly lady and as for as being 40 that's a great age.....and as for as UTC he a funny guy and like most gringos we are a product of our culture..... we r indifferent to words and insults......,we say the words friends brother, guero puta SOB Mother fucker mallate mojado bitch nigger galleta boludo white boy... they don't real have a strong mean to us....... cause we hear them all the time.... like in our music vidio and movies and everyday life, look at when Chavez called Bush as devil didn't even phase him....... unlike other cultures it would of been fighting words, we work hard, make lots of money....... and we feel like we don't need anybody so there fore we really don't respect anyone ,....... we r indifferent to the world oh yea Galetico answer Lisa in spanish I know u under stood and that u can.... i see u been working hard on your spanish,.... I know this might be a blanket post but u kinda have to be that way...... cause u can't take any one on PBH too serious

anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda en Bogota "Vicente"

Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2007, 08:22:

MONPIRRI TE ESCIBO Y RESPONDO TODO CORREO, NO ENTIENDO PORQUE NO LO RECIBES!?

Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2007, 08:40:

MY SISTER WAS A WIDOW At age 40 with 3 teen ages, and she married a layer and had another child. She met him at her social circle. I guess I do not know Internet dating, never had to, I don`t know anyone close to me that does it. If it works for you all, and you are happy, that is what counts.

webmanco says on Mar 3, 2007, 09:09:

never did a full term of English Why it is difficult for some Colombianas to learn English.

"Querer es poder"
They just don't want to learn, don't have the time, etc.
I do understand Liza getting mad about some of the replies on this thread, a "palabras necias oidos sordos" it is the rule of thumb to follow on comments about generalizations.

As for Colombians learning English, let me tell you guys that I know a few who had not stepped a foot out Colombia and manage enough English to had USA born people giving their credit card number� over the phone. This is done on a daily basis�.

Another case in point is a Colombian guy who had been in the meet ups, had not go out Colombia, never did a full term of English lessons yet his English is good enough to tell jokes, and have English native speakers laughing or joining for more jokes or conversation.

I another English class there were people from different nationalities, some form Corea, Spain, France, etc. It is amazing how people learn quicker Spanish (while taking English lessons) than English itself. Why?? Maybe because they are abroad only, for “the other land dream� but feels better with the Latino-Spanish Culture.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 09:13:

What I find interesting about you, Monpirri, and your endless accusations that I don't know anything about Colombia or Colombians are your comments about Toyota in San Antonio. On the south and west sides of San Antonio, Spanish is the dominant language, and 90% of the employees at the Toyota plant speak Spanish. There is no rule against workers speaking Spanish to each other and I believe that such a rule would be unenforceable and possibly unconstitutional. In addition there are many Japanese executives and technicians working at the plant and believe me, their English is hardly better than my wife's.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 09:21:

Anyone in my situation knows that Rubito is right. English is a lot harder to learn than Spanish. My wife has a lot of difficulties with French as well but Italian and Portuguese are a breeze.

As for widows remarrying, I know a widow in Medellin in her fifties who did manage to remarry a Colombiano but I know far more attractive widows who are professionals, over the age of 35, with children and who have no prospects. One of them is quite attractive and if I was a polygamist, she'd be high on my list.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

morphus says on Mar 3, 2007, 10:14:

Widows I think it would be better to go for a divorcee because the widow still loves her dead husband. If he did'nt die, she would still be with him. In most cases, the divorcee hates the ex-husband, so thats better for you. In Colombia, you can be more picky. Why not just go for a virgin bride?

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 10:29:

Widows are way better than divorcees. Frequently divorcees are bitter towards men in general with some baggage left to process. Once a widow is done mourning she's ready to love another husband the way she did her first. In my wife's case, her first marriage was not an especially good one and she wanted a better marriage the next time around. Nevertheless I am sure you can find well-adjusted divorcees and bitter widows.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

morphus says on Mar 3, 2007, 10:32:

Ok, that makes sense, but what happens when you get bored of the sex?

southern151 says on Mar 3, 2007, 11:44:

Morphus... To answer your question above...
Become a widow! LOL

Monpirri says on Mar 3, 2007, 12:17:

Utopiacowboy I was not accusing anybody. I was a bit confused with your story, again. I believe everything you said about Colombia, your spouse relatives visiting San anotonio where 80% speak Spanish, your trips all over Colombia, the food you have tasted over there, etc, etc.
Hopefully anybody who does not speak English would get hire at Toyota because I have three friends who are looking for work.

Thanks for sharing another story with us.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

goin_south says on Mar 3, 2007, 12:41:

morphus.. widows tend to have a bit of distinctly different outlook, than divorcees. And, as UTC said, every widow was not in the best of circumstance either, before their spouse passed on.

I think, in general, most divorcees who are past 35 or so, tend to have re-organized how they look at the world, and have re-evalutated what it is they really want for the rest of this life on earth. Widows? Even more so, because of the 'certain loss'.

and, thank you.

jay1234 says on Mar 3, 2007, 14:07:

Not the average case... but my fiancee's primas (ages 11, 15, and 16) all speak excellent English without much of an accent. They are wealthier, though (estrato 6) and attend an expensive private school in Barranquilla where they study English and French as part of the normal coursework. My fiancee's English is pretty basic, and heavily accented and probably more of the norm (she lives in an estrato 4 neighborhood). But my cuñado comes from a working class family and speaks English well, though with an accent. He told me he learned a lot by chatting online and after getting a comfort level, practicing whenever he could.
My experience in every hotel that I have stayed at in Colombia is that there are some very good English speakers there. In Meddellin, I noticed billboards encouraging locals to speak English to help with attracting tourists and business to Colombia.
I thought Rubito's explanation of the differences was excellent. I know for me, probably the hardest part of speaking Spanish is keeping past and future tenses (preterito) straight. I had very basic skills when I started, but travelling to Latin America and specifically trying to stay away from places with English speakers, so I was forced to practice, helped me alot.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 16:42:

My wife got her job through the Texas Employment Commission. They have a web site called www.workintexas.com where you can register and search for work. They did most of the screening for Toyota but they are still looking for workers. There is a drug test (which many people fail) but no English test.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2007, 17:28:

Learning any language is difficult But if you really want to learn you can. You must be in the country to learn it faster. I have been learning German for few years and It is very, very difficult.
My brothers 3 of 5 are medical doctors, and when going to school,(when back when) the text books were in English!!!. they can read anything and know technical English, but when it come to speak fluent it is not there.(except for the one that lives here, of course)
You must be speaking at least 5 years to be able to be fluent.
There are some people that are good in languages, and can learn fast, others take longer and don`t have that availity.'My Gringo' had a Mexican Gf for 5 years, and we have been together for 10!
He says Spanish is too difficult. He is very smart and learns everything very quickly!? We are moving to COl. this year, he will need a teacher ASAP!

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 18:35:

Your gringo? Does he refer to you as "my Colombiana"? Do you see each other as individuals or walking, talking stereotypes?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2007, 19:13:

???No hablo Ingles!

utopiacowboy says on Mar 3, 2007, 21:25:

Let me see if I get this straight. In 10 years together he has not learned Spanish and he says that it's too difficult. I guess that means he's not going to learn. Yet the two of you are moving to Colombia?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

goin_south says on Mar 3, 2007, 21:33:

s-s-ssssay what? (((He says Spanish is too difficult. He is very smart and learns everything very quickly!)))

Yo penso, que el es muy perezoso, a mismo, pero MAS!

and, thank you.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 3, 2007, 22:09:

He will learn when he gets to Medellin His logic is that he will learn when he is living there. To him it is very important to learn the language when you live in Colombia, and he wants to be able to communicate with my family and friends. He wants to be part of our culture, and integrate into the Colombian society.
He will be able to learn very fast because he is very interested and sees the need to speak fluent there.

goin_south says on Mar 4, 2007, 00:20:

Oh? Touchet! Then, I don't feel so badly about my gf only having learned 5 phrases. Disculpe, Lisa; Ella no es perezosa!

and, thank you.

alleycat says on Mar 4, 2007, 07:45:

english is one of the more complex languages to learn. easier to learn the younger you are but rules make it very difficult for someone over 15-18 years old after learning patterns are formalized. better for the english speaker to learn spanish then slowly work at spanish speaker learning english.

elmodefoque says on Mar 4, 2007, 07:56:

Gee Lisa Zee, I’m the complete opposite from you, I don’t know or care to know any professional or well educated Colombians, all my friends are considered chusmas, low life corronchos, the lowest of the low of Colombia.
In my profession I meet many world famous celebrities. I clean toilets for a very prestigious TV station in NYC. I’m not gonna sit here and mention them all, way too many. I will tell you about one that left a long lasting impression on me. He’s name is Luciano Pavarotti, world renown Tenor. I was summoned to the men’s room, the one nearest the Studio, by his publicist. “Mr. Pavarotti has a small problem in the men’s room and needs my assistance“ she said. “Small� it was NOT, that fat modefoque just gave birth to the biggest mojon (turd) I have ever personally seen in my nearly 30 year career. He was having problems flushing it down so I had to cut it into 4, 6 inch pieces to facilitate matters. For the first time in my life I was left speechless. Luciano was very embarrassed and apologetic and handed me a $100 tip which I gratefully refused. I get paid a very handsome salary and it only takes me two hours to make that.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

podborski says on Mar 4, 2007, 08:24:

native english speakers don't realize how difficult english is to learn, of course.

That is, until you try to help someone else learn it. Then you are bombarded with simple questions (how do you pronounce 'the'? Why do you pronounce it 2 different ways in the same sentence sometimes? etc. etc. ad infinitum) and you realize you really only know the language through memorization and years of practice.

A chinese friend of mine, the smartest guy I know, now a math/physics professor, said he found learning english to be extremely difficult, and he landed in canada at age 5.

I think anyone who has learned english without being immersed in it (meaning living in an english speaking household) is either very smart, very dedicated, or very gifted.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 4, 2007, 11:08:

Elmo I am deeply moved by your your interesting story. You should pass it along to your grand children one day so they can be very proud of you. It has nothing to do with this topic of language, but what the heck, we all want to listen wonderful, warm stories sometimes.
Thank you for sharing that with me and the fellows.

goin_south says on Mar 4, 2007, 11:41:

Lisa, because 'Elmo TALKS shit'.... His posts are still about language (and, hence,...somewhat on topic; very moving and warm, as you suttlely state) ;o)

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 4, 2007, 11:42:

Lisa, because 'Elmo TALKS shit'....(an easy language to learn)...
His posts are still about language (and, hence,...somewhat on topic; very moving and warm, as you suttlely state) ;o)

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 4, 2007, 11:43:

Lisa, because 'Elmo TALKS shit'....(an easy language to learn)...
His posts are still about language (and, hence,...somewhat on topic; very moving and warm, as you suttlely state) ;o)

and, thank you.

alleycat says on Mar 5, 2007, 06:26:

Pod says...... "A chinese friend of mine, the smartest guy I know, now a math/physics professor, said he found learning english to be extremely difficult, and he landed in canada at age 5".

"I think anyone who has learned english without being immersed in it (meaning living in an english speaking household) is either very smart, very dedicated, or very gifted".

Not necessarily. Many people have excellent language facility but would have an iq in the average range. If your math professor fits the typical profile, his iq would be skewed toward the visuo/spatial/analytic and not verbal.

elmodefoque says on Mar 5, 2007, 06:54:

I never had formal studies, in other words, I barely went to school, was too busy getting high and screwing gringas. My heavy accented English, I learned in the streets of New York City. Most of my life I was surrounded by my Latino amigos and my intellectual New York Jew friends.
One thing that remains the same, is my very obvious barranquillero dialect and accent. No matter how long I’ve lived outside curramba I always maintained and use, on daily basis, all my corroncho words.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

podborski says on Mar 5, 2007, 06:59:

I think you fall into my 'dedicated' category elmo as you clearly show true dedication to raising the noble profession of sanitary engineering to an art form.

cali373 says on Mar 5, 2007, 06:59:

I do not see much as such a generalization like mentioned here. I find it that it is usually up to the individual on how much they want to master the english language. It does not depend on where they came from or what sex they are.

Smile if you are a thinker!

miamimike says on Mar 5, 2007, 11:26:

I think the Chinese, Russians, Arabs,Jews Would have a much more have a much more difficult time learning English as their Alphabet is completely different and Jews write from right to left. At least with Spanish speaking people(and other romance langauge speakers, italians, portugese ect) learning English, the Alphabet is essentially the same letters, many words are in fact written the same, only accented differently as in the word "General". This alone has to be a huge advantage, the letters and alphabet being very similiar. It should have been easier for them ; this however was not the case where my ex-wife studied English intensively in St. Petersburg, Florida--the fastest learning and most industrious(as far as staying up all night in group study) were her Oriental Classmates(chinese,japanese and then, a lot of vietnamese).Go figure,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

elmodefoque says on Mar 5, 2007, 11:55:

Podbroski, Sanitary Engineering is a profession I full-heartedly embraced and quite proud of. My profession has given me the incredible high standard of living which I currently enjoy. My 5 floor rental walk-up penthouse in Manhattan NYC, over looking New Jersey (ok, we can’t have it all) and my 15 speed bicycle. has also kept my kids outta jail, I always had enough for lawyers.
You really have to enjoy the kind of chit I do for a living or else you will never dedicate as many years as I have. I have seen and smelled the crap of many world leaders and entertainers. How many here can say that?

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

goin_south says on Mar 5, 2007, 14:07:

How many here want to be able to say that ?
0.

and, thank you.

goin_south says on Mar 5, 2007, 14:12:

okay, well.... now you got some interest... Of course, we want to know, the most famous and powerful person in the world, whose shit you saved and got stored in a jar, hermetically-sealed and sitting in your 5th floor, manhattan penthouse overlooking new jersey?

and, thank you.

elmodefoque says on Mar 5, 2007, 14:26:

feliz, i'm glad you asked that. next to diomedes diaz, Bill fokin clinton is the man i most admire. I saw and smelled his crap during a taping of the "charlie rose show" about 6 months ago.
That is one handsome modefoque, he was still wearing a colombian bracelet given to him by kids in cartagena. we discussed out trips to colombia and i invited him to barranquilla for chicharron, bollo limpio and a couple beers. he's gonna check with hilary.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

Man Tequila says on Mar 5, 2007, 14:35:

I don't know the big shits. Looks like their shit has hit its fans.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)