¡NO MAS FARC¡

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:36:

BUMP!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:42:

ESTOY DE ACUERDO, ESTARE EN COLOMBIA EN ESE TIEMPO, OJALA EN VILLAVO ALLA UNA DE ESAS MARCHAS.

engage brain before opening mouth

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:55:

Sacaron permiso de la "comunidad extranjera" primero, para estar seguros que no los estamos ofendiendo?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:55:

Extranjera billyb with X

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:57:

thnx

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 10:59:

Soy capaz de buscar pasaje para esta epoca en Colombia, solo para estar en esa marcha. De lo contrario, me gustaria saber si hay algo en Toronto, sino lo organizamos!!!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

de pronto says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:10:

Una pregunta, si un extranjero participa en una marcha de este tipo, podría tener como consecuencia la aplicación de una cláusula de la Constitución colombiana que califique a dicho extranjero como "persona non grata"?

Sólo por curiosidad.

Gracias

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:19:

Yo creo que si se pone a echar piedra seguro que si..... y resulte en la plaza de bolivar haciendole un grafiti a nuestro Bolivar con pinta de griego

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

de pronto says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:31:

entiendo, pregunto porque fuí testigo de una situación parecida: tengo un amigo chileno que estudiaba cine y filmó una marcha parecida en México para efectos de un documental y lo deportaron bajo el cláusula de "persona non grata". Algo que me pareció muy radical sólo por filmar la marcha. Entonces por eso me surgió la duda.

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:39:

De pronto, Mira el problema de las marchas es que aparecen los desadaptados (que no te digo de donde son porque seguro me dicen snob), a tirar piedra y si preciso llega la policía y uno está parado como una pelota en la mitad de la marcha, seguro que te agarran y te j.... así que si lo tomas en un plan contemplativo sin hacer arengas contra el gobierno y la distribución de la riqueza, evitarán meterse en problemas....

Depende de quién invite a la marcha.... si suena a izquierda ortodoxa, hay fijo tirada de piedra...y mostrada de posaderas.

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

de pronto says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:47:

" uno está parado como una pelota en la mitad de la marcha, seguro que te agarran y te j.... " eso me suena a la muy famosa Ley de Murphy, pero tienes razón.

Y si a uno lo descubren en una marcha así, tal vez lo mejor sea contestar como García Márquez contestó en mi país cuando le preguntaron sobre política: "yo no opino sobre asuntos internos"; y en lo personal me parece triste que en el mundo se tenga una visión más ligera de lo que realmente implican las FARC en Colombia.

... y viaje a Macondo todo pagado

0 funny, 0 helpful.

orestesdd says on Jan 9, 2008, 12:48:

Ojala que hagan esto de una forma pacifica y asi no tendran problemas aunque esto tampoco es seguro, pues mira lo que le pasó a Martin Luther King Jr en los EEUU. A veces ni las marchas pacifitas son respetadas. Buena suerte pues en verdad me gustaria que no existiera FARC cuando me juvile dentro de 10 años en Bogotá.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Simon says on Jan 9, 2008, 13:25:

WE NEED TO DESTROY THESE FARC MF'ERS!!!!!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 13:49:

El gobierno necesita las FARC. Piensen en eso.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 13:57:

mmmm sounds like a troll looking for a job

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:02:

juli did you just imply that the colombian government needs the FARCS...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:06:

The Politics of Fear - look it up. Noam Chomsky - look him up. Governments operate and control everything utilizing fear. This is nothing new.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:09:

I hate having political discussions on the net. Bring up a different viewpoint and be labeled a troll. Very ignorant. I would rather be a troll than ignorant.

How about looking into another point ov view or a different angle on things? Hey, maybe it´s just me, I´m not from the US or the South of US. I have an open mind and know how to listen to another side of things. Lila and Dill. How about a two way conversaition? I never said I agree with the FARC.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:11:

With fear (the FARC) the Col gov and all governments have a good deal of leeway to operate and instantiate policies.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:13:

Look de pronto if you are with bad apples maybe you get contaminated, that is what happen when there is a massive protest, jejejej everybody is bad, and you are the only good one, and at the end you are the troll jajaja

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:15:

Wasn't the last nationwide demonstration rather peaceful? Just a bunch of people making noise.

The way I see it the international community can say Uribe is full of it, but when several million Colombians tell the world the FARC is hurting us, maybe they will listen and stop supporting those b*stards.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:32:

Several million sometimes amounts to a hill of beans - meaning not much. Always exists tons of protestors but in the end sometimes it doesn´t matter in the eyes of the government.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:34:

"Bring up a different viewpoint and be labeled a troll. Very ignorant. I would rather be a troll than ignorant"

"Lila and Dill. How about a two way conversaition? I never said I agree with the FARC"

no need to get your panties in a bunch, I was asking you a question, just like a two way conversation should go

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:41:

Dill, YES - That´s what I wrote.

I am implying that the Col Gov needs and uses the FARC. Like other goverments they need and use fear. Please do a search and think for yourself. Without the FARC there is no fear. The gov is not really shakin its ass to get rid of the FARC in my opinion. But what to free thinking trolls know?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:46:

And where exactly are these documents, that we need to see to do our own research, that show the governament needs or is even in cahoots with the FARC? Can you tell us where you did your own research?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:49:

Who said the Gov is in Cahoots with the FARC?

I wrote:

The Politics of Fear - look it up. Noam Chomsky - look him up

I´d start there if I were you. This has nothing to do with the FARC but how governments love and use fear to manipulate nations.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Roosevelt ' he meant it differently though

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:52:

"Hey, maybe it´s just me, I´m not from the US or the South of US. I have an open mind and know how to listen to another side of things. Lila and Dill. How about a two way conversaition? I never said I agree with the FARC"

Activity: 0 posts, 47 comments, 0 friends.
Lives in: Colombia Medellín. Tengo familia en Bogotá
Sex: female
Born in: Colombia

hey juli last time I check you were born in colombia and lived in medellin. where do you live now? just south of trollville. hahahahaha

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:54:

And your implication is that this applies in Colombia.

Books are nice. Life experience and seasoning are better.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 14:58:

From eltiempo.com

EL EPISODIO DE EMMANUEL

Se les desmoronó la tramoya

Saúl Hernández. Columnista de EL TIEMPO.



A la guerrilla le acaba de propinar una derrota un chiquillo de 3 años.


Dos cosas deja en claro el caso Emmanuel: que la guerrilla está tremendamente debilitada y que sus comandantes son, no simplemente asesinos, sino mentirosos compulsivos y patológicos.

En cuanto a lo primero, no se trata tan sólo de que ya no puedan tomarse pueblos y carreteras con la misma facilidad de antes -y sus brutales consecuencias- o que sus integrantes deserten por montones, volándose con los secuestrados, como alias 'la Negra', o entregando a sus jefes -a alias 'Mamajuana'- como la guerrillera que hizo amistad con el diputado Rufino Varela. Tampoco es apenas que les estén dando de baja unos cuadros cualquiera como 'Jota Jota', 'Martín Caballero', el 'negro Acacio' o un tal 'Carpintero', o que les lleguen hasta el rancho, como le sucedió a 'Carlos Losada', donde quedó un computador con información de primera mano y el diario de la holandesa, que da cuenta de la descomposición moral de la guerrilla: el sida, la promiscuidad sexual, los privilegios de los comandantes y sus mujeres, el maltrato a las bases, etc. De lo que se trata ahora es que a esa guerrilla, que ha asustado a los colombianos por más de cuatro décadas, le acaba de propinar una derrota un chiquillo de 3 años, como bien apunta la caricatura de Matador, el domingo. Ya las Farc no tienen capacidad operativa ni para mantener a un niño vigilado en su área de influencia, ni para transportar un paquete con las dichosas pruebas y menos para arrebatarle un menor al ICBF, que, dicho sea de paso, junto con la Defensoría, demuestran estar haciendo una intachable labor.

Lo otro es que la guerrilla y sus cómplices -incluyendo a todos los idiotas útiles que se prestan para sus comedias- son embusteros, sofistas y falaces, indignos de todo crédito y de la mínima confianza que la lógica exige hasta en relación con un enemigo. Los guerrilleros mienten siempre, y sobre todos los temas, porque ello es una estrategia de lucha; pero lo peor es que no parecen tener ni el menor pudor para engañar -o, cuando menos, para hacer quedar en ridículo mundial- a sus propios aliados, como ha ocurrido en cuestión de horas con Chávez, el canciller Maduro, Piedad Córdoba, Kirchner y hasta Oliver Stone.

Y es que cabe señalar hasta cierta perplejidad por la forma rápida -aunque cínica- de reconocer que Juan David sí era Emmanuel, cuando todos sus amiguetes hacían ingentes esfuerzos por demostrar que la hipótesis de Uribe era una cortina de humo: un noticiero desvirtuaba la posibilidad de fractura de húmero en un recién nacido; Anncol juraba que las Farc no pondrían uno de los 'suyos' en manos de una entidad estatal; Maduro sugería que el examen de ADN en Colombia sería manipulado y exigía hacer -léase manipular- uno en Venezuela, como si el niño y sus parientes fueran ciudadanos de allá y no de acá; y decenas de columnistas y políticos, que todavía tienen resaca de las rumbas decembrinas, aún hablan en términos que dejan la sensación de no haberse enterado de que las mismas Farc admitieron que las cogieron en la mentira, que se les cayó la tramoya y el truco quedó a la vista de todo el mundo.

Ellos que tapan una mentira con otra, que han mentido para ocultar sus atrocidades -como la masacre a sangre fría de los once diputados-, hoy pretenden valerse de tergiversaciones estrambóticas y torpes insolencias para encubrir su impotencia, su debilitamiento, la triste languidez de sus últimos días, como ese cuento bufo de que al niño lo secuestró el Gobierno. ¡Qué bueno que fue así; si no, estaría muerto!

Este episodio cierra cualquier posibilidad de un despeje territorial, como el que reclaman las Farc, y de nuevas incursiones circenses del compadre vecino y su comparsa de payasos.

El destino (o Dios, si usted prefiere) ha terminado por premiar a doña Clara de Rojas por ese derroche de dignidad, paciencia y ecuanimidad que debemos imitar todos los colombianos.


Saúl Hernández

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:06:

So your "research" consists of reading a book by Noam Chomsky? jaja.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:07:

bulldog bit your tongue? hahahahahah

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:15:

hahahahaha

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:26:

I don't mean to rain on the spit-on-FARC party, but I was wondering if there will be another demonstration against the murderous collution of paracos and military and the continual lying of the Col government on this matter.

http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=107912

Just wondering. Please carry on.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:39:

T, you are free to organize one, let me know when you are having it and I'll try to make it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:40:

♦

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:43:

Billy, I'm sure someone is doing that as I type. I'm just wondering if anybody knows about it.

It also seems to me that those displaying well justified indignation for kidnapping children should also show a bit of it too for the throat-slitting of children. Otherwise it would seem politically motivated, no?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:49:

I'm sure they are planning a few of those in Europe, but any in Colombia? Like Dillard says above, all corrupt political figures need to go (my preference is execution), but that shouldn't detract from wanting to protest murder and kidnapping by the FARC.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:51:

Absolutely. In fact, if they delay it a month, I'll join in and burn an effigy of Mono Jojoy. But I'm wondering why so little attention to other atrocities?

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:55:

Hey, if they have a protest against the paras I will go too. But let's start with the FARC since they are Oliver's Stones and the che guevara tshirt wearing Danes new infatuation.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

msaucey says on Jan 9, 2008, 15:55:

¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡ ¡NO MAS FARC¡

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Jan 9, 2008, 16:12:

Si hay una marcha contra las farc en Toronto, yo lo haria! Pero la verdad no creo que los Torontonos sepan mucho sobre las farc

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 9, 2008, 16:15:

Disclaimer: ¡No más FARC!

Colombiche, I don't know why we should worry so much about what Ollie Stone and the Danes think. Sure, they'll influence some opinion, but I don't think that's nearly as important as the statistical fact that the paracos are the main perpetrators of the kind of atrocities that all Colombians reject--except maybe for kidnapping. I'm appalled that Emmanuel deserved so much press, but the murder of Santiago and Natalia Guerra went mostly unnoticed. Is the life of Santiago and Natalia less worthy because it wasn't in the scope of a Hollywood film director?

Unfortunately, if the demonstration is against atrocities commited by FARC and not just by anyone in the conflict, many people may misinterpret it at a demonstration in support of Uribe. The last thing we need now is to politicize our well justified indignation.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 16:30:

Everybody hates the paras.

The FARC enjoys a great deal of international support.

This is more about letting the world know that the FARC is NOT fighting for the people of Colombia.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 16:56:

" But I'm wondering why so little attention to other atrocities?"

I think, apart from them being the more imminent danger, it is also becuase most people react from their own experiences and I think most of us from Colombia that post on here have suffered more from the FARC than the paras (of course if you ask the residents of Apartado you will get a different perspective, but they are not the ones posting here) and we get frustrated with foreigners, specially europeans, romanticizing the FARC when they have not suffered at their hands and have little or no knowledge of the conflict.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 9, 2008, 16:58:

"Everybody hates the paras."

I'm not so sure about that. About 4% of Colombians have a favorable image of paracos (versus 2% of guerrilla), and 33% agree that the paracos are necessary to defeat the guerrilla. There's more scary data here:

http://www.semana.com/documents/Doc-1439_200755.pdf

If FARC enjoys international support, I doubt that it is very effective. US$ 5K in t-shirts is unlikely to have had a major impact in their finances.

And if the demonstration is misinterpreted as pro-Uribe, you will see a lot of polarization, which would send the message to clueless foreigners that FARC has substantial support in Colombia. "Saldría el tiro por la culata" as we would say.

If for nothing else but strategy, the organizers should try to involve victims of the paracos in their demonstration, and make a broad condemnation of human rights abuses, regardless of where they come from. But that's just a humble suggestion.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

catherine b says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:05:

Colombiche says "Everybody hates the paras.

The FARC enjoys a great deal of international support. "

EXACTLY! Nobody supports the paras. They don't have a fan club or apologists overseas. Their atrocities are well known both within and outside Colombia.

Those of us here who are vociferous in our contempt for farc do so to bring attention to the fact that the farc are no better than the paras. The farc and Bolivarian Circles cheerleaders/agents of disinformation seem to be everywhere. The farc are not boyscouts. That's why many of us here are so vehement in our repudiation of farc. Nobody defends the paras, therefore there's no need for us to expose what's already well known; the paras are trash. Both the paras and farc are vicious murderers, narco terrorists and a plague for Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:07:

Well let´s see if they are going to make true that release from the hostages tomorrow

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:33:

If it happens, it will show how it should have been done in the first place. No self glorifying press conferences by Chavez, no idiotic commisions made up of people ignorant of the conflict, just give the pilots the coordinates and release them, simple.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:40:

Correction: Utopia Cowboy/John Stark supports the paras. He claims he married into one of their families.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

diabloblas says on Jan 9, 2008, 17:46:

does anybody think that uribe does anything without consulting... or at least thinking of bush's response?

...the bottom line is economics...everytime

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vladimiro says on Jan 9, 2008, 18:08:

The protests won't draw international pressure on FARC, because Colombia is not important for the world economy, and does not have much strategic military value. If Colombia were an important country it would get atleast 10 billion in US military aid like the dictator of Pakistan. Not even the US cares that much about Colombia.

Additionally, the FARC are an indeginous, self-financed organization. They do not rely on other countries for support, Danish t-shirts not withstanding. *All* neighboring countries have been explicit about not getting involved. Its purely a Colombian problem.

Sounds like the real goal of the protest is to jack up patriotic sentiment and use it for the war effort/or support for Uribe program.

If people truly want to damage the FARC find out why so many people, like hundreds of thousands of Coca farmers, support the FARC and work to change that.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 9, 2008, 18:13:

"find out why people, like hundreds of thousands of Coca farmers, support the FARC"

Is there any question why? Let's see, the FARC is a narco-terrorist org, the coca farmers sell their product to the FARC, hmmm, let me think, why would they ever support thet FARC????

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 9, 2008, 18:58:

If they are helping us why not to get advice from US.

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

docwilliam says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:06:

Amen Colombich, I hope there is a good turn out.

"There's no time to panic"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

docwilliam says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:07:

.

"There's no time to panic"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:20:

"The protests won't draw international pressure on FARC, because Colombia is not important for the world economy, and does not have much strategic military value. If Colombia were an important country it would get atleast 10 billion in US military aid like the dictator of Pakistan" -- Vladimiro

Vladimiro, I am trying to find some recent data, but as of the year 2000, on the world's largest economic entities Colombia ranked #51 while Pakistan (with 4x the population of Colombia) ranked as #72.


Perhaps the importance of Pakistan lies in the fact that they might be able to nuke us all to hell.

http://www.corporations.org/system/top100.html

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

PALEOLITICO says on Jan 9, 2008, 19:55:

Que buen articulo gracias!!! y que maravilla lo de la marcha AHI ESTAREMOS TODOS pàra decirles que el reinado no les va a durar toda la vida y que tenemos un presidente que les va a seguir dando duro y que los colombianos de bien estamos con él.

de pronto. ya ves que tu pregunta no es ni tan descabellada. Acá pasa de todo! encuanto a estos delincuentes de las FARC se refiere. Bueno, claro que el gobierno no creo que te declarara persona no grata pues estarás marchando en contra de las FARC y como ya has visto, los "non gratos" son ellos.

OJALA HAYAN MUCHOS EXTRANJEROS apoyandonos en esta marcha, extranjeros que quieren a Colombia mucho mas que los guerrilleros COLOMBIANOS. DOY INMENSAS GRACIAS A TODOS LOS EXTRANJEROS QUE DESEA PARTICIPAR EN LA MARCHA.

JAJAJAJA LILA M. Vos sos muy charra!! pero lo que decis de no darselas de protagonista en marchas de este tipo , es la mejor estrategia.

Y si, hay un gran desconocimiento en el mundo (y en la misma Colombia por parte de algunos desubicados) de lo que significa realmente las FARC en Colombia, pero que mas se puede esperar si hay gente en el mundo, que aunque les parezca exagerado, creen que en Colombia la gente aún vive en los árboles y nos cubrimos con taparrabo!! no hay derecho carajo!

O si no vean la PERLA de Oliver Stone diciendo que la guerrilla colombiana es "guerrilla de campesinos"!! Dios mio!!

Pero será mejor no mezclar mi marca con discusiones politica... y menos con las FARC!

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 9, 2008, 20:46:

The war against drugs is a farse so it is the war against the guerillas, or guerrilleros, Las Fuerzas Armadas de Colombia, do live because of the ongoing "war". I don´t see myself in a march againts any group one or in favor of any group for that matter, well I will only march for the rights of animals, "not the humand kind". For a better environment.

It is hard to take sides with all the miss information and the conflict of interest surronding power.

As per example, take the "falsos positivos" a few supposed attacks by the Farcs, were in reality done by militaries wanting publicity. And we only know about the ones that make the news. It is true there had been some important arrests and confiscation but each side needs to show some results so a few heads had to fall, but the farse will go on.

Sometimes you need to ask different locals to get a better scope of the information and situations. Do not take for granted everything on the newpapers, tv news, or even internet. Some of the protesters might had suffered directly from Farc´s crimes but don´t let propaganda for granted.

Paramilitares might had done equal or more damage that the gerrilla, but the fact that they are not well known abroad does not make them less evil. They will continuo their cruzade with any other name, be it "Aguilas Negras" or any other, as a matter of fact Paramilitares were create in Puerto Salgar or la Dorada were there is a big Batallon.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:12:

It's several people in colombia that got me involved in all this.

The way I see it, if you shut up then better put up with whatever comes your way. March against the FARC, the paras, the carebears, whatever it is that is making your life miserable... but do something to get people out of this lethargic state. The FARC have hero status in many parts of the world so it is good to begin with them. Por eso Colombia esta en el cag*dero en que esta porque la gente aguanta y aguanta. Si nos quedamos mamando pues entonces que siga la fiesta.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but if the FARC had recently killed one of YOUR close relatives (liket they did mine) in cold blood you would probably march or at least feel inclined to.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:22:

feb 4? why feb 4, that's concurso de orquesta in quilla, part of carnival.
didn't organizers realize that. I'll be in colombia.
is better after the 7 of feb.
Joselito carnaval is burried on the 6th, carnaval is over

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:25:

El ejercito conoce el metedero de muchos guerrilleros, inclusive en la selva, en lugar de realizar marchas en las grandes urbes del mundo, reclamen que el ejercito actue y no de pañitos de agua caliente, a veces pienso que se necesita mano fuerte, pero desafortunadamente, Juli tiene algo de razon.

Que se vea inversion social y no de guerra solamente.

En lugar de llorarle a otros paises, metamosle mano desde aquí, la ayuda que otros paises le den a las Farc, en mi opinion ni les da ni les quita mucho. Esto es un negocio, con victimas desafortunadamente.

Si se concoce de algún lugar donde hay secuestrados, (tengo la certeza que el ejercito sabe de muchos) y existe alguna marcha ciudadana hacia esos sitios yo me apunto. Las marchas citadinas, solo de observador.

No hay que abrirle los ojos a los extranjeros, tenemos que abrir mejor los nuestros.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:32:

Todo mundo dice "Yo me apunto, yo me apunto" pero no hacen nada sino criticar a los que estan haciendo algo. Es un estado de letargo total.

Prefiero ver a la gente poniendo aunque sea panitos de agua caliente y haciendo bulla que aguantando callada..

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:37:

Hay muchas formas de hacer, ayudar, en algunas ocasiones es mejor no participar en manifestaciones, no me refiero a la del 4 de Febrero.

Las manifestaciones pueden ser una forma de utilizar a la gente, el fin puede ser muy loable pero hay que ver en realida qué o mejor quién esta detras de todo tipo de movimiento.

Alguien dijo que dicha marcha puede ser más bien Pro-Uribe, es decir con tintes politicos, por ende en cierto modo pro-parapolitica, sin que necesariamente este relacionado, o sí?

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:39:

You know why my relative died? Because when the FARC had him he sent the family a clear message not to pay a cent. They had agreed to this beforehand, if anybody got kidnapped, not a penny. The family agreed and let the army attempt a rescue operation. He knew he would probably go but he had the cojones to not give in until the end. He died in the crossfire or so they say. This was all over el tiempo a few months ago, I posted it.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 05:41:

My heart goes for every victim, and relatives, regardless of who pulls the trigger wether is the Farc, Paracos or Gobierno, no soy indolente.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

El Polo says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:08:

Contrary to popular belief, armed blocs do exsist all throughout the caribean coast. Maria La Baja is about 72km south of Cartagena. There still are remnants of this conflict all through out this little pueblo.

"Maria La Baja has grown substantially in recent years as some 7000 people have moved into the town from the surrounding countryside, since 2000 when the FARC guerrilla group arrived in the hills nearby. According to reports, the FARC militants stole cattle. The situation deteriorated further when AUC paramilitaries began to battle FARC, catching civilians in the crossfire. However the security situation has improved more recently with the FARC giving up their weapons on July 14, 2005, under a national demobilization plan speared by the government of Alvaro Uribe. Marines have set up a base on the edge of the town"-Wikipedia

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:13:

Not to forget Altos de Maria where Araujo escaped from the Farc a year ago, so La Costa is known for being a stronghold for paramilitares, but is lacking control over Montes de Maria going thru Carmén de Bolivar.

Never heard of Maria La Baja before.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:15:

"However the security situation has improved more recently with the FARC giving up their weapons on July 14, 2005,"

It seems like this particular group is not delinquenting anymore.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

El Polo says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:32:

Yes Billy, FARC is no longer Delinquenting, in that area (sorry I didnt know what you meant intially)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:42:

I meant that particular front of the FARC, that your post itself said disbanded in 2005.

"giving up their weapons on July 14, 2005,"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

El Polo says on Jan 10, 2008, 06:57:

Yes billy you are right, and the sad truth is that many people in the town thought the only solution to the FARC issue was Paracos, which have now turned to civilian life, and many still remain in Maria La Baja since the Marines are no longer there.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Jan 10, 2008, 07:19:

El Polo, you do not have to talk about some remote event to prove that.
In Santa Marta, AUC is still applying vacuna to businesses. No secrets.
And they kill, kidnapp and smug drugs.
After they killed a fiscale a couple of months ago, police, army and gaula, which are all corrupted, are finally doing something, just because Uribe went personally asking for results.
Legal forces have always worked hand in hand with the paras in Santa Marta, like all politics (see Trino Luna, the ex governor) and all the rich powerful families (Vives, Zuniga, etc.). No secrets.
From Parque Tayrona you could see the paradero of Víctor Manuel Mejía, one of the Los Mellizos and the new boss of the paras group.
But FARC is not too far. You just go up and down a couple of "cerros" and you are in farclandia.
FARC is told to control the paramos and the cultivos de amapola.

If you want to know something more about it:
http://www.eltiempo.com/tiempoimpreso/edicionimpresa/justicia/2007-12-...

But this is just a mere example of what is happening everywhere on the coast, Cartagena, Barranquilla, etc.
Or someone thought the Ley of Justicia y Paz was going to turn the wolves in sheep?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

El Polo says on Jan 10, 2008, 07:33:

Thanks for the link Rob, will read when I have more time.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

LilaM says on Jan 10, 2008, 08:13:

11:09 a.m.

Clara Rojas y Consuelo González fueron entregadas a comisión de la Cruz Roja, confirma Chávez
Están bien de salud. Las naves se dirigen en este momento a territorio venezolano. Según el mandatario venezolano, se enteró mediante una llamada telefónica.

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Jan 10, 2008, 08:16:

every time someone criticizes FARC sr t jumps in to say "why don't we talk about paracos, Uribe, Bush blah blah blah"

Well why don't you talk about them sr t? You're allowed to post. Better than whining all the time about what other people want to talk about.

Then there's vlad who thinks we should be talking about pakistan instead of FARC. Head on over to off topic and post away vlad : )

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 10, 2008, 08:25:

My mom just called to tell me the news, she was in tears.

At least after all the anguish Clara Rojas will have a chance to be reunited with her child and bring him up.

So that is 3 down, how many more to go now.....

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 08:40:

Farcs, Paracos and Parapolitica, goes hand in hand, it is hard to talk just about one of them without having the other parties involved.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 10, 2008, 08:40:

Ahora quien va aguantar a Chavez dando Pantalla.....

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sr Tertius says on Jan 10, 2008, 09:24:

"Well why don't you talk about them sr t?"

I have. Just now.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

El Polo says on Jan 10, 2008, 09:37:

It will be intresting to hear what they have to say.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

juli says on Jan 10, 2008, 12:39:

Dillard profile

Activity: 2 posts, 29 comments, 3 friends.
Lives in: Afghanistan
Sex: unspecified
Born in: Afghanistan

Less than me.

So this means you are more of a troll?

Many in this thread added nothing to this topic. I was adding something to think about.

If the government could press a button and the FARC would disappear, there may be doubts they would do it.

"No Farc" means no support, means the government has less leeway to enact certain policies. If the FARC are gone with the magic button, and tons of cocaine from Colombia ends up in the US who is the drug dealer? The Paras?

I´m not defending the FARC. Just pointing out that when a gov has fear, real or fabricated, they have tons of control to enact policies. WMD in order to start a war, patriot act... There are tons of examples throughout history.

"Almost half of the $630 million in military aid to Colombia last year was scooped up by U.S. defense contractors. There's money in the madness."

Having the FARC around benefits some. All I was asking was for someone to think about that side. Relavent or not, it seems that it was a tough request, a source of confusion and reason for immediate attack. Sorry.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 says on Jan 10, 2008, 12:45:

When the FARC murdered Uribe's father, it is kind of hard to believe that he would keep them around. Call me skeptical.

In a Latin American country, there are always plenty of bogeymen. Just look at Tio Hugo. Hell the US is always a ready standby.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 10, 2008, 13:20:

♦

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dillard666 says on Jan 10, 2008, 13:21:

♦

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bamacellist says on Jan 10, 2008, 16:59:

I believe if someone showed him such a magic buton, he would be pushing it before his heart could beat twice. Why wouldn't he? Let's take your advice and think...

What fear are you talking about? Fear of organized crime? Fear of gross violence and lack of societal order? Fear of kidnapping, extortion, assassinations? Fear of supression of free and genuine political discussion? The elimination of the Farc would leave other sources of these fears intact. There is no need to maintain the Farc to maintain fear, if that is the strategy. Eliminating the Farc would be an enormous relief to nearly everybody yet still leave plenty of options for this manipulation if that is really the government's strategy. It would be a win-win situation in fact.

Secondly, what programs or policies can you identify as supported only or mainly by fear? What programs would no longer have legitimacy in a Colombia without the Farc but you can't imagine the government aborting? (There is at least one person here who would tell you Uribe has no policies or programs at all.)

Naaahhhhh... if you want to be cynical, think about how much of the more mundane types of bureaucratic corruption and deceit has been accepted practice here and realize there hasn't been the need to be very byzantine about it. If you prefer to look for a more noble view, realize that any government of Colombia will have its plate so full for such a long time that there is no need for it to promote scarecrows or red herrings and it's not enough to say that because the government in place isn't addressing the issues according to how someone else would prioritize them means, "something's up".

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 10, 2008, 17:02:

President Uribe is not running the country by himselft, he got many people telling him what to do, not just his advisers for that matther.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 says on Jan 10, 2008, 17:27:

Just like the leaders of any country with the possible exception of Cuba.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bamacellist says on Jan 10, 2008, 20:10:

I'm reading the report of Uribes speech tonight in El Pais http://www.elpais.com.co/paisonline/notas/Enero102008/uribecha.html. It seems like a very dignified and correct thing for him to have done and, from reading here, he seems to have done it right. These kind of events possess quite a lot of innate drama and can stir up a lot of passion. It makes me wonder... While the published number of hostages varies wildly depending on the source, it seems there ought to be lists of names somewhere. Has there ever been a reading of the names? That might be stilling for those who cannot see the horror for one reason or another, no?

"The future is much like the present, only longer."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 11, 2008, 06:10:

It is a relieft to see the hostages go, but it angered me to see the FARC guerrilleros just standing there on public television, caras frescas, kissing everybody on the cheek, knowing they have the country by the balls!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 11, 2008, 06:13:

yaeh colombiche I agree, and waving good bye

engage brain before opening mouth

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Colombiche says on Jan 11, 2008, 07:05:

Parecian unos novios despidiendose en El Dorado.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jan 11, 2008, 07:48:

falto fue la papayera

engage brain before opening mouth

0 funny, 0 helpful.