No Free trade with Colombia

Lisa Zee says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:14:

Here is the link from Semana.
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=110750

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:18:

Hey Scotty, welcome back!!

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:24:

Scotty: It looks like Colombia TLC will face hard times with Obama also.
It is good to see you posting , as we may not agree on everything, I have always liked your
spirit and conviction on what you believe in.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080403/colombia_us_obama.html?.v=1

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

scotty says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:30:

I dont get it, what do these politicians have against Colombia, hell, they are one of our few friends in that area, i just dont get it?

Hi Simon, i plan to pop in once in awhile and post or comment but not nearly as much as before. I do post a weekly update though on my medical condition. How you doing Simon?

Hi DD, thanks for that man. You have contributed many good posts on this site, your knowledge of Colombia is very impressive.

Thanks for the article Lisa Zee.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

UppercaseNIC says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:33:

Hillary against free trade? Since when? She is only saying this now, but if you dig deeper into her closet, Hillary was VERY supportive of NAFTA when she was first lady and help Bill lobby support for its passage. It may come as a surprise ti some, but political candidates sometimes lie to their constituents (gasp!). Hillary like Bill, have similar views on the economy, the war, the role of government, etc...Bill, acted, in many cases, like an old-time Republican. He did after all end welfare, something that even Ronald Reagan was unable to do. Bill did levy harsh sanctions against Iraq. He bombed an aspirin factory in the Sudan. Hillary will say that she is against the war and NAFTA, but if elected (God forbid), she will do what is best for big business.

Wastelandlive says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:37:

What do these politicians have against Colombia?

It's funny... sometimes I think that people don't understand America's economic power. Even now, when it seems we have made a complete shambles of our economy... well, consider: we are still the worlds largest economy. We - or better said, many among us - want free trade with the world... but a particular nation?

Is it really important that we have free trade with Colombia? Why?

It's not, really. It's very important to those sectors that will benefit in Colombia, but to America it's hardly a blip on the radar.

So why would these politicians oppose it? Well, if you want to look like you are taking a courageous stand on human rights, while at the same time signaling the anti-free traders that you sympathise with them (and want their votes), then Colombia is your place to take a stand: not much downside, lots of upside.

I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way. But, as always, its about politics, not policy. Colombia is in a tight spot on this one.

Wasteland

deathnova says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:53:

If you're not black you're going to face hard times with Obama.

Mike19 says on Apr 6, 2008, 17:54:

Hilary is a phony %##$% and we (U.S.) are in trouble in hilary or Obama get into office. Hilary is a huge liar and Obama wants to sit and have coffee and kiss $%^ with Iran - whose leader as said many times that they should wipe Isreal and the U.S. off the map? Is this man a idiot or what?

Thats like getting into a fight with your neighbor and inviting him to steak house after he tells you he wants to kill your entire family....

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:00:

I'm doing fine Scotty, thank you and I wish you the best!

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:02:

"Is it really important that we have free trade with Colombia? Why?"

Why? Um, maybe so more opportunities can be created for needy Colombians who might otherwise resort to narcotrafficking, and you know where those drugs are going, right?

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

miamimike says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:03:

Hillary is against free trade with Colombia and was very angry when Penn promised the Colombians free trade. If Hillary is elected there will be no free trade between USA and Colombia.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go again Scotty posting more lies! Hillary is not against the FTA as you claim, she and many others in Congress are against giving it the Green Light Until Mr Uribe investiagates in a more through manner the Many unaccounted deaths of Trade Unionists in Colombia. If you have a link that says Hillary is against the FTA because its the FTA please post it otherwise stop posting this Nonsense. BTW, Hillary, McCain or Obama has the right to hire and fire whoever they want in their campaign FYI

Post any Links that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Hillary is against free trade with Colombia per se,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Mike19 says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:04:

Free Trade needs to happen.

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:05:

Speaking about Hilary's honesty, here's an article I was just glancing over:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/32711.html

McClatchy Washington Bureau

Posted on Sat, Apr. 05, 2008

Is Hillary Clinton dishonest? A lot of Americans think so

Steven Thomma and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: April 05, 2008 03:37:08 PM

WASHINGTON — The flap over Hillary Clinton's false claim that she braved sniper fire during a 1996 trip to Bosnia has highlighted a problem that's plagued her for much of her public life: A lot of people think she's dishonest.

Ever since she stepped onto the national stage when her husband ran for president in 1992, she's found her honesty challenged along with his — sometimes thanks to her failure to tell the truth and sometimes thanks to the eagerness of her critics to portray innocent misstatements as lies.

Either way, the issue has helped to define her and put a drag on her political standing.

"This is a real difficulty for her," said independent pollster John Zogby. "With Bill Clinton, there was always an honesty problem. But he always was able to overcome it through charm and brilliance ... It doesn't look like she is able to transcend those fundamental problems that she has with the truth."

Clinton's campaign didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.

A recent Gallup Poll found that 53 percent of Americans think Clinton isn't "honest and trustworthy." Just 29 percent said the same of her Democratic rival Barack Obama, and 27 percent said it of Republican John McCain.

Gallup analyst Jeffrey Jones called the credibility gap between Clinton and McCain "the largest between any two candidates for any dimension tested."

Another recent poll, this one conducted by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center before Clinton had to back down from her account of her Bosnia trip, found that 29 percent of white Democrats considered her a "phony," almost twice as many as the 15 percent who described Obama that way.

Pew researchers concluded that Democrats' views of Clinton "are more influenced by perceptions that she is phony than by any other trait or emotion tested."

More than just a passing complaint, the doubts about her honesty color overall opinions of her, said Andrew Kohut, the director of the Pew center.

"There's some deep perception of her," Kohut said. "What the analysis shows is this perception of being a phony is a real driver — this has an impact on her overall favorability rating."

In the most recent primary state, Mississippi, an exit poll found that only 49 percent of Democratic primary voters thought Clinton was "honest and trustworthy" and 50 percent said they didn't think she was.

By contrast, 70 percent of primary voters there said they thought Obama was honest and trustworthy; 29 percent didn't.

Obama won Mississippi.

A series of polls in earlier primary states for McClatchy and MSNBC found a 12-point "honesty gap" for Clinton. Likely primary voters looking for honesty as the most important quality in a candidate broke for Obama over Clinton by an average of 40-28 percent.

Her worst state was Iowa, where she was third among "honesty" voters behind Obama and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards. She finished third behind them in the Iowa caucuses, a disappointing result that helped knock her off her perch as the front-runner for the nomination.

How did she get the reputation?

Some of the charges against her are dubious.

One, for example, says she exaggerated her role in pushing through medical coverage for uninsured children. But a new independent review by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania found her version credible.

Another accuses her of fabricating a story about daughter Chelsea Clinton being close to the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. "She invented the entire story," said former Bill Clinton political adviser and now Clinton nemesis Dick Morris. Yet while Clinton got some details wrong, her daughter has said that she was near the Trade Center when it collapsed.

Other charges, however, hold up, most notably challenges to her repeated boast that she flew into Bosnia under sniper fire and raced across the tarmac to the safety of waiting vehicles. Videotape of her arrival clearly shows a safe, routine airport reception. Caught in the contradiction between her words and the facts, she said she "misspoke."

Thursday night she mocked herself on "The Tonight Show" with Jay Leno: "I was worried I wasn't going to make it," she said. "I was pinned down by sniper fire."

This wasn't the first time that her honesty has been challenged.

She's exaggerated her role in some political successes, such as passage of the Family and Medical Leave Act, which allowed people to take unpaid time off of work to care for the ill. She played no noticeable role that history records.

She's also given downright misleading answers when pressed about some controversies, such as the removal of documents from the safe of a dead White House lawyer or her role in the decision to fire the entire White House Travel Office staff. Facts that emerged after her explanations of both instances contradicted her accounts.

"She is not seen as trustworthy by the American people," said Obama campaign manager David Plouffe in a recent memo, hoping to raise doubts about her in the eyes of the delegates who'll choose the Democratic presidential nominee.

"It will be next to impossible to win a general election if more than half the electorate believes that you're not trustworthy. ... This is going to be a real important issue, as superdelegates and voters decide who they think would be most electable in the fall. The American people simply are not going to elect someone that they believe is not being honest and trustworthy."

But at least one analyst said that Clinton could survive questions about her honesty, as her husband did.

"She's fought that from the days of his presidency from Travelgate," the flap over the White House Travel Office, said Bruce Gronbeck, a communications professor at the University of Iowa.

"I don't ever expect her to have strong trust numbers. (But) she has an amazing ability to recover. She's an extraordinary healer. She can heal herself and carry on."

SOME CASES WHERE CLINTON'S HONESTY HAS BEEN CHALLENGED

The White House Travel Office:

After Clinton's husband took office, his administration fired all the employees of the White House Travel Office, replacing them with friends.

Clinton later told investigators she had "no role in the decision" to fire them and didn't know the "origin of the decision."

In a memo that was discovered later, however, former White House aide David Watkins said Clinton had said, "We need those people out and we need our people in." The Office of Independent Counsel said there was overwhelming evidence that she'd played a role in the firings and called her denials "factually false."

Vince Foster:

After her friend, former Arkansas law partner and White House lawyer Vince Foster killed himself, Clinton said she had no idea why her White House Chief of Staff, Maggie Williams, who's now her campaign manager, had removed documents from Foster's White House safe. "I don't know that she did remove any documents," Clinton said.

It was later revealed, however, that White House lawyer Bernard Nussbaum, a close ally of Clinton, had removed files and handed one labeled "Whitewater" to Williams, who took it to the Clintons' White House residence. It also was revealed that Williams had acted at Clinton's direction.

The Family and Medical Leave Act:

Her campaign Web site boasts that her record includes "helping to pass the Family and Medical Leave Act."

But the bill was pushed in Congress for years and passed twice, only to be vetoed by former President George H.W. Bush. Congress passed it a third time as Bill Clinton took office. He signed it into law on Feb. 5, 1993, barely two weeks after he became president.

Hillary Clinton's own White House schedules, recently released, make no mention of any meetings on the bill.

The North American Free Trade Agreement:

Clinton claims that she privately opposed the North American Free Trade Agreement when her husband pushed it through Congress.

But her recently released appointment schedule from her years as first lady reveal instead that she made private pitches for the trade agreement.

The State Children's Health Insurance Program:

Clinton claims that she played a key role in pushing through the State Children's Health Insurance Program, boasting in a campaign ad that she "got health insurance for 6 million kids."

Some news organizations, as well as the Obama campaign, call that claim false.

But an independent review by the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania took a second look and found her account credible. Said the center's Brooks Jackson: "Clinton is right on this one."

Africa:

Speaking in Pennsylvania two weeks ago, Clinton introduced former U.S. Ambassador Joe Wilson. "He and I did travel together to Africa and, sort of, paved the way for the president's trip the following year, which was historic," Clinton said.

But Wilson didn't accompany Clinton on her March 1997 trip to Africa. Wilson did accompany both Clintons on the president's 1998 Africa visit.

"She made a mistake on that," Wilson said. "She misspoke on that. I worked closely with her and her staff on the president's trip, which she went on."

The Clinton administration official who accompanied Clinton on her 1997 trip was Susan Rice, who's now a senior foreign policy adviser to the Obama campaign.

Chelsea Clinton and Sept. 11:

Clinton nemesis Dick Morris accuses her of fabricating a story about daughter Chelsea Clinton being close to the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.

"She invented the entire story on national television," Morris said. "And didn't blink an eye."

Here's what really happened:

Clinton said Chelsea had gone on "what she thought was going to be a great jog. She was going to go down to Battery Park, she was going to go around the towers. She went to get a cup of coffee and, and, that's when the plane hit."

Responding to a question about whether her daughter heard the "rumble," Clinton said, "She did hear it."

Weeks later, Chelsea Clinton told a magazine that she was in an apartment 12 blocks away when the first plane hit. A UPI article said she was outdoors closer to the site when "she heard the rumble of the second tower collapsing."

McClatchy Newspapers 2008

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

miamimike says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:07:

Simon, what does this have to do with the OP?

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

romy says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:07:

'Trade benefits all' is what they say in introductory economics. But I've been wondering the actual implication of this FTA beyond what's already happening. The analyzes I've been reading suggest that economic benefits to both parties involved are minimal. Maybe you guys can provide me with some references that I can follow-up on to be better informed. Because, as far as I'm concerned so far, turning down the FTA has nothing to do with having anything 'against' Colombia.

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:09:

MiamiMike,

Its' about Hillary, just like the OP. And I just wanted to share it with you guys, found it interesting.

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

DodgerDogs says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:10:

miamimike: investigate the murders of the unionist , as they need to be solved, but do not purnish all of Colombia and not pass free trade , as it does bring back those that were murdered, and it only serves, to cause more hard feelings on both sides.

At this time and junction , one could be correct in saying Hillary is against TLC with
Colombia.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

miamimike says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:10:

romy says on Sunday April 6th, 2008 18:07:

'Trade benefits all' is what they say in introductory economics. But I've been wondering the actual implication of this FTA beyond what's already happening. The analyzes I've been reading suggest that economic benefits to both parties involved are minimal. Maybe you guys can provide me with some references that I can follow-up on to be better informed. Because, as far as I'm concerned so far, turning down the FTA has nothing to do with having anything 'against' Colombia.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romy--Poster Scotty is a Partisan Hack and he regularly puts up posts of this Ilk, he forgets there is a little man out there called GOOGLE. LOL

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Mike19 says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:11:

She is a total $%^&%$ liar.

bamacellist says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:11:

I am just as cynical as Wastelandive. All the way back to the initial trouble about a year ago I have viewed it that way. Then, it was Patrick Leahy, padding his labor credentials, pretty much single-handedly holding it up. It's their way of gaining the support of a constituency that is active, vocal, has a large base and is also very generous with money, without worrying about alienating very many actual voters. Rejection of Colombia's bid here is especially valuable for those who have supported free trade agreements in the past because they can stake a position that can be spun to cover all bases. It's an easy and cheap win for them.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

Rikito says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:12:

Scotty,

What do these politicians have against Colombia? Nothing actually. Most politicians in the U.S. are weak lemmings. They do what they are told to do or they get poor committee assignments, no ‘pork’ for their pet projects, and reduced support for their next reelection.

The Democratic Party is heavily influenced by American Labor unions. Colombia has a poor record of positive relations with the Colombian labor unions. The American Labor unions are against the Trade Agreement so it’s a no go at the moment.

Colombia is responsible for this problem because they have had a negative and violent relation with their Labor unions since way before Uribe came into the picture. Just look at how Colombia has handled the recent workers strikes at Colombian Coal, and the Colombian ferronickel mine. These strikes have affected almost 6,000-7,000 workers and their families and Colombian has done so very little to solve the problem. And let's not forget the murders at Chiquita Banana.

Labor unions are socialistic by nature and the Colombian government is not. Also, the people who control the money in Colombia do not like unions, do not want unions, and have no problem with any kind of violence against the unions. The rich and powerful corporate heads in Colombia are the biggest obstacle to any Trade Agreement and they could care less about any agreement unless they can see the money. It's always...all about the money isn't it?

HIllary, Barack, and McCain couldn't find Colombia if they were sitting in Eldorado Airport. For the most part, all three are ignorant about South America politics and problems. They think farc is a gastrointestinal problem.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:12:

"'Trade benefits all' is what they say in introductory economics."

Well, actually the winners win more than the losers lose.

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

goin_south says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:13:

Are we really going to have to worry about WHAT HILLARY THINKS ABOUT FTA?

Where is she in the polls? 2nd? 3rd?
Please don't tell me otherwise!

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

Rikito says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:14:

deathnova, "If you're not black you're going to face hard times with Obama." Please keep your ignorant racist comments in the U.S.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

miamimike says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:14:

Still no substantive link where Hillary is nailed saying she is against Free Trade against Colombia for what it is,,,Nada, Zip, Zilch

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:18:

"HIllary, Barack, and McCain couldn't find Colombia if they were sitting in Eldorado Airport. For the most part, all three are ignorant about South America politics and problems. They think farc is a gastrointestinal problem."


Of the three McCain is the only one that has been to Colombia. I think Hillary might be familiarized with Colombia through Bill, who has been there four times. I doubt Obama knows much about Colombia beyond the basics.

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

Mike19 says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:21:

Of course he doesn't know much about Colombia - Obama would rather sit with the leader of Iran and kiss there butt.....I'm wondering if 2 or 3 planes hit somewhere in the U.S. again, what would Obama and Hilary do as president?

Would love to ask them that question as they lie about her daughter's whereabouts on 9-11.

Papi de Alejo says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:33:

I sure hope that Deathnova can tell me how as a black man I am going avoid hard times if Sen. Obama is elected. Maybe if I can be convinced, I'd be willing to switch my support to him.

I agree with Miamimike, the problems with free trade agreements tend to resolve around US companies doing business in countries where they can avoid regulatory controls that exist in the US. We have to remember that these regulations have transformed business and their effect on their workers and society for the positive.

Most of us have no memory of a time when there was no guarantee that you would return from your workplace with all of the body parts that you went to work with or how much big business greatly polluted the environment. Is this what we want to unleash on countries trying to come into their own? I for one hope not.

PdA

Rikito says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:35:

Papi, racists have no solutions. They can only make ignorant and offensive remarks and then laugh at the responses.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

jh816 says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:42:

The agreement will be passed this year. Bush has to, and has said he will, present it this week for it to be voted on this session. At first the Dems will do their posturing and the administration will give in and grant concessions for an aide packet for labor. Bush has talked up the agreement too much to let it die, and Pelosi has said she would let it pass if they had a TAA package.

The agreement means little for the US. After passage US GDP will increase by 2.5 billion (from the analysis of the US Trade Commission. An amazing report, I recommend all read it), which is only about a .05 percent increase.

The agreement is VERY important for Colombia. For all you budding socialists out there that don't want the TLC passed but love Colombia, please objectively research what it will mean for the nation.

First, and most importantly, the agreement will mean a permanent trading partner with a huge chunk of world wealth. This means financial security and stability. Colombia WILL regain its investment grade status if we get this agreement. It just happened for Peru last week (a few months after passage of their own TLC with the US). With investment grade comes even more foreign direct investment and a richer country. From this you can extrapolate a whole boatload of consequences. With food on the table and money in the bank people are less likely to resort to crime or join a...hmm I don't know revolutionist group.

Second, Colombia sorely needs to lower its protectionist policies and a TLC will do this immediately. Why do you think you pay almost double for any technology product here in Colombia? Why do you think the infrastructure is so chitty? Because technology and heavy machinery are both taxed to the point that they can not be imported without restrictive prices.

Third, Actually this one relates to number 2 (lowering import tariffs, and hence prices). Because of the tariffs and price bands on grain and rice, Colombia imports almost nothing. This keeps the prices of staple products of the colombian diet artificially high. Without these restrictions, it is estimated that rice imports alone will increase 20-fold. WANT TO FIGHT INFLATION? Pass the TLC!

Yes, some colombians will lose their jobs with the passage of the TLC. Sorry, it happens. But these people will find new jobs because of the investment and growth that the TLC will bring.

scotty says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:46:

Miamimike talking to you is waste of time, you seem to be the only one on the whole thread that doesnt get it. It has been on every TV station today, i just saw it on CNN about 30 minutes ago. " Mr Penn has left the Clinton team as their Chief strategist. The reason being is that he met with Colombian officials and promised them Hillary would support free trade with Colombia. When Hillary heard of this she was very angry because she DOES NOT SUPPORT FREE TRADE WITH COLOMBIA". the end.
dont blame me im just the messenger.
what did you say ... that i was in Pakastan or something like that? man you have a great since of humor.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

Simon says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:50:

"With food on the table and money in the bank people are less likely to resort to crime or join a...hmm I don't know revolutionist group."


That does it for me, I'm hooked. Now approve the TLC nice people of the north !

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

miamimike says on Apr 6, 2008, 18:53:

miamimike says on Sunday April 6th, 2008 18:14: edit

Still no substantive link where Hillary is nailed saying she is against Free Trade against Colombia for what it is,,,Nada, Zip, Zilch


You don't get it Scotty, its that simple,,believe what you will,,,You aren't even aware of who started Plan Colombia so yes, its difficult to have dialogue with you,,,Hillary's support for FTA is CONDITIONAL,,,many times in the past this has been done by BOTH parties on many issues with US Aid, Foreign Aid. You make it out like this is a first for the USA doing this and simply it is not,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

scotty says on Apr 6, 2008, 20:43:

Ok MM what ever. bye!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

miamimike says on Apr 7, 2008, 01:02:

Scotty--you consistently post clips out of context to suit your opinion and not in their Entirety!! Had you read a little farther on Clinton's Economic proposals you would see she is the ONLY Candidate that has a proposal to deal with China's unfair Trade with the USA and their currency manipulation that has allowed them to rack up massive currency balances against us by essentially freezing their currency. Killing a lot of US factory jobs also but this is little concern to you as I imagine you don't know many of the factory type guys who carry a lunch bucket off to the factory or to a construction site. This Chinese currency manipulation will also will play havoc with Colombia's trade with China as for them its also a one way street due to the fact the CP is a floating currency. Let me ask you, after drinking the Kool Aid, what is your Boy Bush doing about this massive currency imbalance to rectify the probem as well as McCain's Plan(who I assume you are voting for)?? To date Bush has done Absolutely NOTHING on this issue and if he has, please post a Link for us to see in its entirety.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-04-02-hillary-clinton-econo...

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

miamimike says on Apr 7, 2008, 01:06:

Exerpt from above USA Today link:
Hone in on Number 5 Scotty,,,

CLINTON'S PROPOSALS

Hillary Clinton's plans on five business-related issues:

1) JOBS
Would make it more difficult for companies to move jobs and capital overseas by eliminating provision of the corporate tax code that allows companies to defer paying taxes on income from foreign subsidiaries. Provides $7 billion a year in tax benefits to encourage firms to create jobs in the USA.

2) INFRASTRUCTURE
Says "Rebuild America" plan would create 3 million jobs with a $10 billion emergency fund for repair of decaying infrastructure and modernization of public transportation systems and inter-city rail and national broadband system.

3) MORTGAGE CRISIS
Calls for 90-day moratorium on foreclosures and a five-year freeze on rate increases for subprime adjustable-rate-mortgages. Wants to ban prepayment penalties and require registration of mortgage brokers.

4) TAXES
Would let the Bush tax cuts expire for families with incomes above $250,000, expand the earned income tax credit, exempt the first $7 million of a couple's estate from taxes and enact a matching tax credit for retirement savings.

5) TRADE
Supported the North American Free Trade Agreement, but she said "trade agreements need more labor and environmental standards"". Voted against Central America Free Trade Agreement. Seeks a freeze on new trade agreements. ""Wants to impose sanctions on China or others that manipulate their currencies.""

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

scotty says on Apr 7, 2008, 02:12:

do you ever just take a deep breath? man you got alot of energy and a lot of free time. chill out man, take a pill or something. geeez
im outta here you can have this thread and continue to talk to yourself. whew!

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

miamimike says on Apr 7, 2008, 02:57:

I work a lot from Home Scotty during the Midnight hours and as I use my Computer a lot, I bounce in and out of here a lot. Glad you liked the above post on Hillary. A La Orden,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Rikito says on Apr 7, 2008, 04:57:

Miami, I think his reaction is indicative of a lot of other thought. A person posts a comment/opinion. Some of the opinions require some depth of what is being said, but no matter, they post what they want to support what they say. The unfortunate thing is the problem that arises when the responses or comments are taken/posted out of context. This is similar to what Buggy/Cassini does. And when they are called out they get upset and say, "whatever." But several people have already read his comment and may have agreed with what was said even though it is not true.

I think I said way too much and made it sound confusing...sorry if I made matters worse.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

bamacellist says on Apr 7, 2008, 05:33:

It could also be said scotty is merely offering his opinion, which is legitimate enough. Hilary Clinton is saying lots of things about trade. She is playing this issue in such a way as to apeal to both sides without actually offering much for either to hang their hats on. It's all wink wink nudge nudge. I am very cynical obout the motives of most of these people who claim to be so deeply concerned about the threat to unionists. The statistics they present and the way they interpret them make plain to me that it's all drama and posture aimed at justifying a position already taken. For better or worse, all part of the political game.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

Waterdawg says on Apr 7, 2008, 05:51:

" 816 "
..Second, Colombia sorely needs to lower its protectionist policies and a TLC will do this immediately. Why do you think you pay almost double for any technology product here in Colombia? Why do you think the infrastructure is so chitty? Because technology and heavy machinery are both taxed to the point that they can not be imported without restrictive prices.
...............................................................................................................

Try Zippers ! Yea Zipper from the States .. I need some antique finished heavy duty Zipper for several leather Jackets we make here.. It dam near costs me more in import tax's , than the cost of the Zippers
.. I had a customer ship us Buffalo hides to make some special wallets for one of their customers .The hoops and cost were out of this world. I ended up paying an agent 300,000 cop just to go down and live with them for a week to get the hides out of customs and still payed through the nose ..

nueva york bombero says on Apr 7, 2008, 06:54:

Bush is giving a speech about it between 11:30 and 12:00 today (NY time).

Cali2005 says on Apr 7, 2008, 10:40:

It's a mute point. The US economy is verge of total collapse. The bigger problem here is the exchange rate and the strength of the US economy in general.

The free trade will seem like peanuts if the current problem doesnt get straightened out in the USA. The trickle down effect of 2 recessions will affect Colombia, and all us gringos that visit or live here.

Anyone that has business here in Colombia had better buckle up because we have just seen the beginning of the downturn.

The only thing positive here is that the safety and tourism are getting better every year.

Viva Medellin

miamimike says on Apr 7, 2008, 10:50:

Rikito&Cali2005--Good points you make! Here's an article in today's Miami herald where they tell of Mexico, due its close proximity to the USA and the huge number of Mexicans working in the USA, will take a direct hit from the Slowdown in the US Economy.



''Mexico is the most exposed country in the world to a U.S. slowdown,'' Mexican economist Rogelio Ramírez de la O said in a panel discussion on the country's economic performance held last week in Coral Gables.

Mexico's ties with the U.S. economy range from trade -- it sends 80 percent of its exports across the U.S. border -- to tourism, financial flows and providing labor.

Ramírez noted that part of the social and economic stability in the country since the mid-1990s has stemmed from the 500,000 Mexicans who come to work in the United States every year. Most of them don't have legal papers.

''If we weren't able to send these people to the United States, then the equilibrium wouldn't exist,'' said Ramírez, who is president of Ecanal, an economic advisory firm in Mexico City.

WAL-MART AFFECTED

Remittances are so important to household consumption that ''Wal-Mart's [financial] results are highly sensitive to the variations in remittances,'' said Ramírez

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/484161.html

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

nueva york bombero says on Apr 7, 2008, 13:13:

Slowdown in the US Economy--- yes
Total collapse? Not so much....
Take it easy and don't saok up too much of what the media says.

hustle3999 says on Apr 7, 2008, 22:47:

total collapse of the US economy...
what a bunch of B.S. The employment rate in the U.S is 94.9%, exports have steadily grown as has tourism. Is the economy going through a recession yes but a total collapse..come on. Even in a recession the U.S economy is relatively heatlhy compared to the Reagan years in the 80's when unemployment was in double digits.

scotty says on Apr 7, 2008, 22:53:

the Reagan years was in double digits??? hmmmm, im sorry i just dont recall that being the case. I do recall that during the Jimmy Carter administration there was alot of unemployed people and i recall gas lines and hard times. perhaps you mixed up the decades?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

scotty says on Apr 8, 2008, 00:33:

are you just some sort of nut or you like a strange person that surfs the net looking to start trouble, what is your problem anyway??? i dont get it, you have been waiting in the wings not saying a word not making one post until i made a simple post and you appear like magic..
heres the funniest part i am shocked that the so called moderators havent banned you, you have proven to be a troll or just an asshole or both.
where are these moderators when they are really needed? is this site completely going to hell in a hand basket?
now concerning the reagan years i would like to see any info where there was double digit unemployment during his time. i dont recall it at all in fact i was so damn busy during those years i had more work than i knew what to do with in the 80's.I do recall the 70's with Carter as being really bad, gas lines, high unemployment, embassy in Iran raided, those were not good days.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

miamimike says on Apr 8, 2008, 00:38:

Scotty Cool off and fire up a Fat One! Chill out Man,,,on another note, I hope your Treatment Regimen for your Illness is progressing well. Getting all stressed out about some Internet blog is for nothing,,,

for your pleasure: http://clipyoutube.blogspot.com/2007/08/cheech-and-chong-up-in-smoke.h...

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

scotty says on Apr 8, 2008, 00:49:

MM thats too funny...thanks! you are right, i dont need the stress of some troll. talk to ya later...maybe, im off to bed, got to get up early tomorrow and go get a feeding tube put in my stomach...i know how to have a good time huh?
later, MM

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

Rubito says on Apr 8, 2008, 01:08:

"The agreement will be passed this year. Bush has to, and has said he will, present it this week for it to be voted on this session. At first the Dems will do their posturing and the administration will give in and grant concessions for an aide packet for labor. Bush has talked up the agreement too much to let it die, and Pelosi has said she would let it pass if they had a TAA package."

Don’t be so sure. Bush is PRESIDENT, not Pharaoh or Imperator. He DOES have to answer to Congress.


"First, and most importantly, the agreement will mean a permanent trading partner with a huge chunk of world wealth. This means financial security and stability. Colombia WILL regain its investment grade status if we get this agreement. It just happened for Peru last week (a few months after passage of their own TLC with the US). With investment grade comes even more foreign direct investment and a richer country. From this you can extrapolate a whole boatload of consequences. With food on the table and money in the bank people are less likely to resort to crime or join a...hmm I don't know revolutionist group."

The American economy will enter a DEPRESSION, not a recession, before the year is out. They won’t be buying many freaking flowers from Colombia after that, agreement or no. How is Colombia supposed to improve its situation by buying a berth on the Titanic??

"Second, Colombia sorely needs to lower its protectionist policies and a TLC will do this immediately. Why do you think you pay almost double for any technology product here in Colombia? Why do you think the infrastructure is so chitty? Because technology and heavy machinery are both taxed to the point that they can not be imported without restrictive prices."

I pay the same in Colombia as I pay in the US for “technology products�?. You must not be very good at shopping. And how exactly do you mean the infrastructure is “chitty�?? Bogota is full of nice parks, beautiful buildings, a world-class mass transit system (SORELY missing from most US cities), has great electric, gas, and water service.

"Third, Actually this one relates to number 2 (lowering import tariffs, and hence prices). Because of the tariffs and price bands on grain and rice, Colombia imports almost nothing. This keeps the prices of staple products of the colombian diet artificially high. Without these restrictions, it is estimated that rice imports alone will increase 20-fold. WANT TO FIGHT INFLATION? Pass the TLC!"

Another piece of horseshit. The average Colombian has to spend LESS of his or her income on food as a percentage than the average American. And inflation is well under control in Colombia. Not to mention most of the American foodstuffs (if calling it “food is even appropriate) doesn’t pass COLOMBIAN legal standards and as of now would be considered unfit for human consumption in Colombia, and RIGHTLY so. I’m moving to Colombia to get AWAY from the crappy quality food here in the US! I don’t want that shit following me there and I’d HATE to see what it would do to people’s health there!!!


"Yes, some colombians will lose their jobs with the passage of the TLC. Sorry, it happens. But these people will find new jobs because of the investment and growth that the TLC will bring."

SOME Colombians? Dude, study your history! What happened in Mexico after NAFTA? What happened in the Dominican Republic in 1983 after they signed a very similar agreement with the USA. I’ll give you a hint with a sledgehammer, it was the exact OPPOSITE of your facile suggestions. Unemployment and inflation SKYROCKETED, especially in the food sector. 1983 was the year mass quanities of Dominicans starting coming up to the US to live because all of a sudden they could no longer afford to eat!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Rubito says on Apr 8, 2008, 01:11:

Simon you truly amaze me you are so full of contradictions. How is it that you can be almost violently pro-Colombia at times but then at times it's obvious that you have such a LOW opinion of your mother country?

Do you really think Colombia is that PATHETIC that it can't thrive or even be OK without the help of the US? By your logic, Colombia may as well give up its sovereignty and become a commonwealth of the US like Puerto Rico! :P

Personally I think Colombians are survivors and they will quickly find a way to make up for the lost trade income from the US when the shit REALLY hits the fan up here.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

aztec says on Apr 8, 2008, 05:28:

"Mark Penn's sin was to be caught doing something sensible, surreptitiously. That is the only way Democrats can do sensible things regarding trade when their party is pandering to organized labor. Penn's downfall makes him a member of a species that many Democrats insist is large and about which Democrats theatrically grieve: Penn is a casualty of free trade."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/07/AR2008...

aztec says on Apr 8, 2008, 05:33:

For Clinton and Obama, the Trade Trap
It happens when you believe one thing and say another.

Will Marshall, a key figure in the centrist New Democrat movement and head of the Progressive Policy Institute, “There has been a kind of willing suspension of rationality when it comes to the trade debate,� “Apparently, the rule is that in the primaries, facts and evidence don’t matter, so bashing trade becomes a way of validating the emotions of people who feel stressed by global competition, and the facts get trampled underfoot in the process.�

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTdjMzhhOTc1NGQ4OTIxOTY2MDY0MzgyZ...

aztec says on Apr 8, 2008, 06:11:

Smoot-Chavez
Democrats play politics with trade. America may end up paying the price.

"Trade legislation debates are usually about dry-as-dust topics like reciprocity and dumping. But sometimes they really matter. Take the Colombia Free Trade Agreement, which the Bush administration will send to Congress this week. If Congress rejects it, the loss wouldn't be just measured in dollors or pesos. It could have profound geopolitical effects that would hurt the U.S."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120751299198893191.html?mod=opinion_jo...

scotty says on Apr 8, 2008, 09:34:

I make you a deal, why dont i just block you, that way you can say all the stupid things you want to say and i wont have to read them. hows that for a deal. you are blocked as of right now.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

b bruce says on Apr 8, 2008, 19:00:

Folks you need to watch all of this closely. It is the press that are saying it is all doom and gloom. Sure there is some portions of the business sector that is slow. I think there is more to it then the envionmentalists for us not drilling our own oil. Who would stand to suffer the most if we began drilling in some of the big oil finds in Colorado and now North Dakota. There is a do not touch deal somewhere. As far as Hillarys polster getting caught dealing with the Colombians. You must not know the Clintons very well. I would bet a years salary that Hillary sent him to blackmail the Colombians for the cash. She is strapped for cash at the moment in a campaigne that is sputtering at best. That is straight from the Clinton's playbook. I believe she sent him and the word got out. He took the bullet for her that's all. Gal Hillary and Obama Yo Mama will destroy the Democratic party in the next three months. The Democratic convention in Denver will be one for the history books. Has Denver ever had street riots? Hell, John McCain the moderate looks pretty good to some Democrates. McCain is a friend of Colombia! Viva Colombia!

nueva york bombero says on Apr 8, 2008, 19:08:

I wouldn't put it past Hillary to do this... I thought something wasn't "kosher"
and now you summed it up. It could be a conspiracy theory, but It's quite
possible. Pure desperation! Obama will be the Democratic Nominee, then McCain
will win it all. Just a prediction.....

eywed says on Apr 8, 2008, 19:11:

I second your Prediction.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

scotty says on Apr 8, 2008, 20:20:

I think Mr NY bombero has a point there.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

b bruce says on Apr 9, 2008, 22:17:

The Dems are killing each other. A brokered Dem Convention will be a disaster. So I suggest Hillary and Obama have a dual. Pistals? No. Not exciting enough. 12 gauge riot shotguns. Live ESPN or Pay Per View. Twenty paces turn and shoot. Whoa! Would that be interesting. It might even still be legal in the U.S. Winner takes all!
Viva Colombia!

Man Tequila says on Apr 10, 2008, 08:38:

Penn was being paid by the Colombian government to lobby for a free trade agreement. They have terminated his contract.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...