NO ENGLISH NO GRINGO (A)???????

cam0940 says on Sep 14, 2005, 13:26:

What about if the gringo's Spanish is pretty good? Plus hay bastante hispanohablantes aqui en California del Sur que no hablen ni una palabrita de ingles, y cosas les han ido bien.

adrimm says on Sep 14, 2005, 13:46:

Si pero Solo porque son tantos. Que pasa donde no hay el lujo de vivir en una comunidad de esas?

Estoy de acuerdo con la pregunta. Que pasa cuando no se habla el mismo idioma... yo tambien me pregunto como puede ser que se espera que cosas marchan bien sin tener comunicacion en el mismo idioma.

Good question shirly.

Eclipse says on Sep 14, 2005, 13:50:

First, I would think the the gringo/gringa would know how to speak the language of their significant other. If they don't, then Yes, that would REALLY be strange. But if they can speak to each other and communicate that is all there is to it.

Second, the US is a big melting pot of different races, nationalities, and ethnicities. Go to any big city, and I'm sure you can find people with similar backgrounds living in close proximity, ie Chinatown. Here in Southern California there's tons of different communities, Chinatown, Koreatown, Westminster(Vietnamese), Santa Ana(Latinos), and others I can't think of right now. If the couple is living in a community with others alike, I don't think it's that big of a problem. Now if they're living somewhere where there's no one similiar they can speak to, then that would be a problem.

Last, I would think it all depends on the person. Some people may be in finacial situation where it is better to move, and others may just want to live in the US. Who knows?

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 14, 2005, 13:50:

Se hablan mucho con su familia por telefono y por internet.

Dan says on Sep 14, 2005, 14:01:

My wife doesn't speak english. When we first met, I taught myself spanish so I can learn more about her. I wouldn't say that i'm fluent or anything, but we make do. I usually keep my dictionary nearby if a new situation comes up but otherwise, I can get by pretty decently. Wife says I am pretty good, but I know there is always more I can learn.

And then, of course, Like mentioned above, there is the language of love :)

God Bless America!

kernow62 says on Sep 14, 2005, 14:18:

Shirly, many move to areas with lots of other Latinos, for example here in Orlando one could easily survive using Spanish and no English and it wouldn't be a hardship. Ditto in NYC, Chicago, parts of NJ, Miami, Tampa, LA and most of Texas and the SW USA.

My wife spoke barely any English when I met her, and I spoke very basic Spanish, she now speaks quite well and I still speak very basic Spanish. We somehow managed to court and marry and are still together 13 years all together. A lot of the language was sign language, but it works. I do not understand how a long distance relationship can work when neither party is fluent, I guess that is what translation programs are for.

utopiacowboy says on Sep 14, 2005, 16:48:

It's not that difficult. My Spanish still needs a LOT of work but that is how we communicate 24x7. Even back in the day when I could barely speak Spanish we still somehow managed to communicate. Sometimes we would have to go over things several times and we had to pay really close attention to one another but those are good habits to get into anyway. People who share a common language have communication problems all the time making assumptions that they know what the other person means or not listening closely etc. We seldom have an issue as a result of a miscommunication. With my ex-wife who did speak English, we were always having communication problems. Hell, one time I brought home dinner while she cooked dinner because neither of us was clear about who was responsible for dinner.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

bobbyb says on Sep 14, 2005, 16:55:

spanqlish

bobbyb says on Sep 14, 2005, 17:26:

Some might say it's a good thing, not speaking the same language, it saves on the arguments

Dan says on Sep 14, 2005, 17:36:

either that, the arguments are worse because you can't really "win" the argument.haha. I know my wife has been a bit bad tempered a couple times because I wasn't sure what she was talking about. We tend to manage fine though.

God Bless America!

kernow62 says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:02:

Dan, I have never one an argument with my wife!

mikecolombia says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:46:

not one argument I wish that I could say that Dan. When I married my wife, I didn't speek any spanish. 4 years later, I wish that I hadn't learned. I was so much happier when I didn't understand her.........Michael

adrimm says on Sep 14, 2005, 20:59:

LOL "Some might say it's a good thing, not speaking the same language, it saves on the arguments"

LOL yeah, you just tell yourself that. ;) As good as ignoring your problems. Thing is when your Colombian explodes (since we missed the trigger sparks), you could be in for a nasty burn (or at least temporary blindness). Expressive hot-bloodedness has more than one outlet I'll tell you.

miamimike says on Sep 14, 2005, 22:35:

Shirley I agree with you!! Consider the Fact that 60%(conservatively)of marriages here in the USA Fail and those are between two people who share a Common Langauge.There is NO Spoken Communication Barrier and yet 6 out of 10 marriages hit the Rocks(here in the USA). Now add to this mix(in the case of someone meeting a person of another langauge) a communication Barrier and what do the Odds go up to--9 out of 10 marriages failing?! Not to mention the Culture SHOCK if one of the partners moves here to the USA. The First 6 months to 2 years(IMHO)is so very important as far as communicating with your new spouse so if the couple does not UNDERSTAND each other in an indepth level,in this early period of the marriage, it is likely the couple will become frustrated and the marriage will fail.There are exceptions probably but not many.Hell, as we all know here in the USA, 6 of 10 marriages fail and no langauge barrier(or culture shock).There is simply no substitute for communication; world wars have been started due to it! Or the lack of it!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

shirly1981 says on Sep 14, 2005, 22:59:

Ok guyss......................... What some of you say is right there are lots of communities in USA's cities and there are lots of latins, koreans, or chineses everywhere in the city you live but it is still a problem not to communicate properly, 'cause in a way you have to speak the language everyday, if you dont want to depend of a translator (husband-wife) all the time. I think there gotta be something else to get in a relationship in that situation, somebody say that it is the laguage of love but how can you buy a box of tampons by yourself speaking the language of love in the store, people need to be independent, need to work to get their own things or are women and men from colombian living of their husband or wife's pocket?? and about the arguement let me tell you guys that it is neccessary to speak the language too, so you understand what your partner is telling you, and try to give a solution to that problem........ about me thanks God that i speak English 'cause everytime my guy is arguing with me and is really upset and start telling me at #$%&8 ! at #$%^&*( ! at #$%^&*( ! at #$%^&*() ! at #$%^&*() i already know what to answer the same things at #$%&8 ! at #$%^&*( ! at #$%^&*( ! at #$%^&*() ! at #$%^&*() but at the end i add it Todo lo que digas te rechina jejejjeje
And congratulations to all the couples that doesnt have an arguement, it is to populate in the new york timessssss

Sophia

SweetNess says on Sep 14, 2005, 23:59:

plain and simple Well thanks for making it all so plain and simple to us Roofus. I do feel thought that when you look at another chica's breasts while standing next to your own girl, you DO mean to do it... just not so hard that she noticies! Anyways, when my man is looking at some other booty, what he means to do is make sure I get an eyeful too dammit!
I agree with Shirly that the language of love cannot compensate for all of the aspects of the situation that the OP is talking about. I think that between two people who don't speak much of each other's languages, they kind of just make one up their own. If they are good communicators on their own, despite their languages, it will come out between them one way or another, if they are not, then it won't. That is why you have relationships like this that are strained and those that aren't. The language of love will give you the patience and motivation to put up with the difficulties of the language barrier, but the foundation of mutual values, respect, trust, openness, and all that good stuff is what determines how the two people overcome their difference in language. For example, my mother once had the greatest and most amusing conversations with a Chinese man because they were both immigrants, about the same age, and both spoke the same broken kind of immigrant english. It was the only language they had in common even though it wasn't their native tongue, but they understood each other perfectly well because of it.

miamimike says on Sep 15, 2005, 00:49:

Langauge of Love?? Wishful Thinking....Most of the Time All the other Items(values, respect trust ect)soon pale in comparison if TWO people cannot understand each other in the starting months of a marriage. Lacking indepth communication, these others cannot occur. Or all those marriage staticians and social scientists are off base with their polls/studies.I think a rare couple may beat the odds but most won't. (Its like starting a cross country drive in your car with Bald Tires; a few lucky ones will make it on hope and a prayer, but most will have several blowouts!) Wishful, delusional thinking to beleive it will, but as they say, "beleive what you will".

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

cam0940 says on Sep 15, 2005, 05:43:

Actually financial issues is the number one reason why marriage fails. It should come as no surprise then, that in our materialistic society where too many of us only value bigger and better, that we see such dismal statistics.

With that said, the couple needs to have similar beliefs about money and how much "material" they really need vs. want.

Above and beyond that, I would tend to agree with UTC's handling of the language barrier.

bobbyb says on Sep 15, 2005, 06:45:

adrimm you're looking at my life through your eyes, you read some of my posts. You can see that we have had arguments by my reponeses to her. You can see that I just put a lid on her and set her out of ear shot.
Remember I raised a young lady by myself and now that I'm mature I handle the the little episodes a little differently. Tranquil malcriada

bobbyb says on Sep 15, 2005, 06:46:

cowboy Thanks for that one

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 15, 2005, 08:19:

Communication is overrated I've had relationships with bad communications (we spoke the same language but neither understood the other) and seemingly great communications (we spoke the same language quite fluently, yet could never discuss anything for other reasons) and now I think that in my relationship with someone who natively speaks a different language we actually have better communications than I've had in the past.

But it's not because of the words used, rather it's becuase we have a much closer alignment in goals and methods and we are both relaxed and secure enough to not let the little shit become big shit.

A big part of communication is knowing what to tune-in and knowing what to tune-out.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 15, 2005, 09:34:

this is fantastic reading. Like a real-life novela. Maybe you guys are right and I've been wrong all along; the less people understand each other the better they get along. The sign language/body language/non-verbal communication works fine too: you rub your thumb and your forefinger together, look your honey deep in the eyes and smile with a a promise.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Crazy4Cali says on Sep 15, 2005, 09:55:

That's being a bit simplistic... I think the bottom line is that communication is just one of the many details that make or break a relationship. Also, there's more to communication than just understanding the words or the language.

What can go overlooked are the more fundamental nuances of communcation that have to do with shared goals, dreams, agendas (hidden and otherwise), and the balance of perceived power in a relationship. Two people can understand each other's words completely and not be able to agree on things or discuss things effectively when these factors enter into the communications process. Also, these factors are somewhat independent of the langauage barrier--i.e. they can be present without a language barrier and absent with one.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 15, 2005, 10:24:

yes, I do agree I was just making a feeble attempt to match the equally simplistic post made by other people before me.

Communication is the key to everything in my book. Not just sharing the language, but also the ideas that are being communicated mainly by a shared language. Non-verbal communication is just another channel of sending messages which all come into context by the shared cultural background. Shaking a finger, nodding your head, rolling your eyes all send powerful messages. If those messages don't carry the same meaning or the same impact for both something essential gets always lost in the way. There is no true love without true understanding; children that are alike play together best. (A Swedish proverb).

Yes, a balance of terror is also essential for making a good relationship. This balance has to be accepted and cherished by both on equal terms. There cannot be any hidden agendas in true love. The best relationships that I have had the luck to witness have been those where none of the two has any claims on having the power over the other; power becomes a non-entity.

Language can be either a barrier or a bridge; even a slightest misunderstanding can wreck a relationship based on love and trust, especially at the beginning. When the seed of mistrust has been sown there's seldom a way back from that mire of misery. If the lovers don't have a language to communicate with how on earth can they learn to trust and understand each other? You can communicate desire, lust, infatuation without words, but true love? The kind that's supposed to last a lifetime? Oh please, tell me.

I know that some couples have started from point zero languagewise and have been able to bridge the gap of cultural and linguistic abyss by learning each other's language well enough to be able convey the messages on an acceptable level. It takes a lot of time and effort, however, and it has to be both ways to become truely successful.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

utopiacowboy says on Sep 15, 2005, 11:34:

AS far as I can tell, Desi, my wife and I always understand each other's non-verbal signals. I can't count the number of times in daily life when we look at each other and smile or say a quick "Hola, mi amor!". What does even that simple exchange communicate? Nothing more than hi, I am happy to see you and I love you. Believe me, it's great getting that little message 20-30 times a day. Who gets tired of hearing I love you?

You're right that language can be a bridge or a barrier. It depends on the committment and good will that the partners display towards one another. Do my wife and I sometimes misunderstand each other? Sure, but we always have a spirit of good will towards one another that assumes that each of us is well-intentioned towards the other and that the misunderstanding is not the result of an attempt by one to gain leverage over the other. However this occurs even when two people share the same language - if the good will is absent, mistrust will arise.

I suppose ours is one of the marriages which would have had long odds against it but it's been two years and we are still honeymooners. I don't know anyone who has as happy a marriage.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 15, 2005, 12:50:

utopia your marriage doesn't have the worst odds against it because as far as I have been able to figure out from your posts you people got married for the right reasons. Also affinity plays a significant role; it sounds awfully prosaic but you seem to be well suited for each other.

Every couple develops their own personal set of coding and rituals of affection. It happens over the years. It doesn't just pop up from nothing; especially if the verbal communication between the spouses is shaky. They say that the pillows transmit thoughts; sooner or later people who sleep in the same bed start resembling each other in manner and thought. Just look at any old, retired couple: their mannerism, their way of communicating with each other has become almost identical.

I don't know for sure but I would suspect that intercultural marriages where the spouses don't have a language to communicate with at the beginning probably have a higher percentage of divorces in a 10 year period of time than couples with the same linguistic and sociocultural background.

Yours worked out fine, mine did too and there's several others here on this board who've made a successful match over cultural and linguistic barriers. I am afraid, though, that the ones who made it are overrepresented in this group; the ones who didn't aren't with us on this board.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

bob777 says on Sep 15, 2005, 13:14:

one cant say things they cant take back easlily... One thought I had is that with me and my wife, we can't easily say things we cant take back, because if we wanted to say something out of anger, it would take some time for either of us to think of the phrase we would want to say. I guessing, because it has not happened yet, but I think by that much time passing that I would probably reconsider saying the statement that I would regret later saying.

aztec says on Sep 15, 2005, 16:10:

Desideria your note sounds like... ...organizational theory in Academe. "Yes, a balance of terror is also essential for making a good relationship."

However, it is usually couched in other terms such as congruence or incongruence. For example, there is dissonance when the organization/organism is out of "balance.

Not critiquing just impressed!

aztec says on Sep 15, 2005, 16:10:

Desideria your note sounds like... ...organizational theory in Academe. "Yes, a balance of terror is also essential for making a good relationship."

However, it is usually couched in other terms such as congruence or incongruence. For example, there is dissonance when the organization/organism is out of "balance.

Not critiquing just impressed!

anonimo says on Sep 15, 2005, 17:24:

Last time I was in Cartagena, I met a girl from Manizales.. We spent a couple of weeks together. She spoke no english and my spanish is not very good!...My friends in CTG spoke english and spanish, doing some translation. She did not have a lot but was very sweet. She wanted me to go and stay with her in Manizales. I would have loved to have gone, nut was not comfortable as I cannot speak fluent spanish... and what kind of job would I have been able to find?

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 16, 2005, 09:19:

aztec, I'm just trying to keep it simple:)

bob, that'd just about kill all attempts at spontanity in communication. If you have to think really hard how to say what you really want to say the outcome may not be what you wanted to say in the first place.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

utopiacowboy says on Sep 16, 2005, 11:38:

I don't have that "problem", Bob. When I'm pissed, I can let loose a wild torrent of Spanish. Luckily I never have occasion to direct it at my wife.

I would have to agree with your last post, Desi.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 18, 2005, 03:49:

Basics? Like in "I Tarzan...you Jane"? Worked great in the cavemen society. Maybe not such a good idea in this post-modern society.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

kernow62 says on Sep 18, 2005, 09:32:

I hungry, you cook! Now!!!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 18, 2005, 09:43:

Me need money yes, honey, how much.
Berry berry much.
"Donde es mi billetera????"
Aqui, cielo, lo tengo en mi bolso.

Yeah, seems to work fine.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

ARMacleod says on Sep 18, 2005, 09:58:

An add-on. If my ex novia had not learned the English fluently and so quickly, I think that we would possibly still be an item.

She became very good after just a few months while we were communicating in ‘Messenger' My affectionate name for her was ‘Scrummy' (as in scrumptious or yummy) she then started to call me Scrummy by E mail and messenger.

Unfortunately, her spoken English was gibberish when we first met. Emerging from El Dorado, I could see her plainly in the crowd but surprised when she shouted Scrummy, at least that is what was meant, but it came out "SCREW ME"! At the top of her voice.

An American lad beside me remarked . "Jesus, what a welcome" (this is true.)

We had very few altercations in those early months, but as she became more proficient in English the in-fighting became tenaciously vicious.

Here endeth the sermon (and the relationship)

ARMacleod

My stated facts, although interesting at times, are generally irrevelant.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 18, 2005, 11:19:

Me hope you get berries. Berry much.

There's all sorts of people, Louisiana. I'd personally be bored to death if there wouldn't be any spontaneity in communication. If I had to think and re-think everything I say a hundred times over before getting it out. I'd say that's the real relation killer.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

kernow62 says on Sep 18, 2005, 11:44:

LOL ARM, that is the best thing I have heard all day.

adrimm says on Sep 18, 2005, 12:18:

ARM , or um, scrummy omg......LOL....LOL. ouch... I'm in stitches over here from laughing so hard...I'm so sorry, but that is soooo funny!

utopiacowboy says on Sep 18, 2005, 14:32:

That was hilarious. OTOH, not a bad greeting to get.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.