No Cars in Bogota

Peter Miami says on Feb 1, 2007, 06:40:

Wow There is not even one privately owned car in the streets in Bogota? Just busses and taxis? Are people still going to work?

Peter Miami

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JMCana says on Feb 1, 2007, 07:04:

Looks busy as ever I am watching Bogotá City TV (why do they call it City TV when they are in a Spanish speaking country?) The crowds are there and everyone appears to be going on as normal. They have shown many people on bicycles including a bicycle built for 3, they have interviewed taxi drivers, transmilenio passengers, bus drivers, on pissed off guy who got caught driving today and even gas station attendants.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 1, 2007, 07:19:

Some people can avoid the taxis and buses, they just take their car to work and have it parked by 6 a.m.



re CityTV - the station or name is partially or wholly owned (or used to be) by a Canadian company of the same name

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webmanco says on Feb 1, 2007, 07:47:

Transmilenio is even happier

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Feb 1, 2007, 11:22:

Interesting Article An above-ground solution for Wilshire traffic
A dedicated bus lane for the Metro Rapid Line 720 would cost less in time and money than digging a subway to Santa Monica

Local officials now considering the fate of the bus lane ought to look at how Bogota, Colombia — a metropolis of nearly 7 million residents — tackled its traffic problems. Former Mayor Enrique Peñalosa spearheaded a 300-mile system of bus lanes, bicycle paths and pedestrian streets that is widely credited with dramatically reducing urban traffic. By 2005, there was a 32% reduction in commute times and a 40% drop in air pollution, according to one study.

The success in Bogota has shown that bus rapid transit is a proven solution for moving people efficiently. New York and San Francisco, cities with mature rail systems, have recently announced plans to build bus rapid transit lines using dedicated lanes. All this suggests that before we consider spending $5 billion — and waiting at least 10 years — for a subway, Los Angeles should be investing a fraction of that sum to create a first-class BRT system on Wilshire by the end of 2008.

For full Article click here

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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vicshere says on Feb 1, 2007, 11:36:

Rubito
where did you pick this up you have a link for this??
"Private car use is the No. 1 cause of pollution worldwide. Not to mention other issues, like accidents, traffic jams, and overcrowding."

you know what I live in Colombia to and maybe you are not as observant as me but without going into world statistics or doing a actuall count.....I can tell you that in most Colombian major city the major polluters are bus and trucks and motos then cars in that order.....further more Colombia doesn't need pico & place..... doesn't need no car day that's all bullshit....what Colombia really need is for the "control de gases" to be strictly enforced on everything from buses to motos......I bet you if they did this cities like Bogotá would have a hell of clean air....my 2 cents for the day


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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vicshere says on Feb 1, 2007, 12:17:

come on your not going to believe this diagram ....its bought and paid for by some politatian thats trying to show imporvment where there is none....for your information Rubito the emissions testing in Colombia is not strictly enforced.....it s very routine for someone to buy "control de gases" I am all against it but it happens openingly and when that fails pass the transit cop a 10 bill and your on your way.....the only thing that is strictly enforced in Colombia is the DIAN with legitimate companies they seam to be paying the way for Colombia because the normal small businesses sure are not pay their fair share

i am still looking for the link to
"Private car use is the No. 1 cause of pollution worldwide. Not to mention other issues, like accidents, traffic jams, and overcrowding."




listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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vicshere says on Feb 1, 2007, 12:19:

and by the saying Bogota's air isnt that bad any more is like saying
i have cancer but it isnt that bad

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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vicshere says on Feb 1, 2007, 12:26:

hey i was in bogota last week hey last week I was in Bogotá for 5 days...I will tell you right now my eyes and my daughter eyes where stinging the whole time.....jezzz wonder why that was ....perhaps pollution....Bucaramanga as far as I tell has bad enough pollution for me...but Bogotá yea right keep telling yourself the air is clean....I have a funny felling with in 15 years there will be a cancer run in Colombia


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 1, 2007, 12:37:

Factoid: Filthy two-stroke engines “In one year, the average two-stroke backpack leaf blower emits as much pollution as 80 new cars.�



www.aqmd.gov/news1/2006/CoachellaValleyleafblowerevent.html

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webmanco says on Feb 1, 2007, 15:23:

More on their website Secretaria de Ambiente

Foto referencia Enero 31

Foto referencia Enero 31

Foto referencia Enero 31

10:30 am

10:30 am

10:30 am

Click here

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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adrimm says on Feb 1, 2007, 18:01:

Rationale on minimizing car use This is the rational the Penalosa used to explain his stance against cars at this year's World Urban Forum:

30% of the population own(ed) cars in Bogota, yet their needs (space, maintenance) took up most of the transportation budget, and space on the roads, while business and non-car owning citizens were getting stuck in the huge delays.

Bogota decided to build a system that reflected their population - one that would also build a healthier city, and a healthier population by increasing trasnportation choices. The city is far more temperate than other famous cycling cities, and reasonably flat so create a bike network that will take some of the pressure off of motorised transport.

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adrimm says on Feb 1, 2007, 18:09:

Here is a great Article - JMCana, answers & numbers for you! Before I post the whole thing an exceprt from 2000:

Seventy-five percent of Bogotanos traveled by public transportation, using the 22,000 buses and 55,000 taxis available. Environmental and noise pollution were substantially decreased: reductions of nine percent in nitrogen oxides, 28 percent in carbon monoxide and 10 percent in noise level. Additionally, it was the first day in three years in which no fatal traffic accidents were reported. A national polling firm revealed that 87 percent of citizens agreed with the car-free day; 89 percent had no difficulties with the transportation system they used during the event; and 92 percent arrived at work, school or university normally. Even more exciting is that 88 percent would like to hold another car-free day.

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adrimm says on Feb 1, 2007, 18:11:

Now the whole article: Car Free Bogotá: the response to the transportation challenge
by Oscar Edmundo Díaz from: http://www.newcolonist.com/bogota.html article written in 2001

CHALLENGE

Urban planners around the world take for granted that the private automobile should dominate as the primary means of transportation. But where does this get us? The vehicular chaos in cities will only continue to worsen. Even if more roads are built, they will never keep up with the growth in the number of vehicles. Even if pollution control policies are implemented, pollution will still continue to increase. The conclusion is clear: use of the private automobile must be curtailed.

Bogotá's Vital Statistics
Population: 6.4 million
GNP (per capita): US$3300.00
Population Growth: 6.4 million
Urban Area: 32,000 hectares
Inhabitants per hectare: 203

As is the norm in major urban centers outside the US, most of the people in Bogotá (80 percent) use public transport daily; however, private vehicles occupy 95 percent of the roads. Unless drastic measures are taken, the transportation situation in cities like Bogotá will cause increasing high-level atmospheric pollution that will poison urban populations. This situation is particularly alarming in Bogotá, since it is located 2600 meters above sea level where there is 27 percent less available oxygen than at sea level.

Another sign that indicates the current model is not feasible is the overwhelming increase in the number of vehicles in Bogotá. Private cars total 832 000, with a worrying rise of 70 000 in a normal year of economic growth. (Colombia is in its fourth year of an economic recession and the number of cars is actually increasing by only 25 000 to 30 000 a year.)

Local authorities have indicated that use of the private automobile is excessive: in Bogotá close to 70 percent of trips shorter than three kilometers are made by car.

THE SOLUTION: A CAR-FREE BOGOTA

To reduce the negative effects of private automobiles, Bogotá City Hall is working on developing a sustainable system of urban mobility that encourages a more egalitarian and integrated society. This alternative transportation model, often referred to as the Bogotá Project, takes into account both supply and demand factors.

SUPPLY

To increase the supply of transportation, mass and alternative means of transportation are being developed. The proposed network will be interconnected throughout the city, allowing for agile, economic and sustainable mobility. Components of this system include:

1. TransMilenio
TransMilenio is a high-capacity mass transportation system, composed of articulated buses with a capacity for 160 passengers each. This transportation system, which began functioning in December 2000, not only implies changes in the transportation infrastructure (new vehicles, exclusive corridors), but also in the organizational structure of the companies providing the service. The private sector is in charge of its operation, which will be carried out on main avenues and will involve feeders, satellite communication, magnetic tickets and intelligent cards. By 2015, TransMilenio will have 22 lines and 6000 articulated buses providing five million trips per day.

TransMilenio First Phase
Extent: 41 km (three lines)
Static Capacity: 470 buses, 75,200 passengers
Total Capacity: 660,000 passengers per day
Average Velocity: 25 kph

Note: the average speed of public transport in Bogotá without TransMilenio is 10kph

2. Cycle Paths

Thanks to the promotional campaigns encouraging the bicycle as a means of transportation, its use in the city has grown in two years from 0.5 percent to 4 percent of the population. It is expected that by the end of 2001, six percent of the population will be using the Cycle-Paths Network, and that by the year 2005, 30 percent of trips will be by bicycle. This will generate a substantial change in the quality of life of Bogotanos, since decreased congestion will reduce the duration of trips by half. The Cycle-Path Network already has 120 kilometers of pathways, and an additional 180 kilometers are being built.

3. Public Space

The construction of sidewalks and shaded promenades ("alamedas") for cultural and recreational activities is advancing throughout the city. These ample, tree-lined spaces are designed to meet the needs of children, seniors and the handicapped. The 15-metre-wide shaded walk El Porvenir, currently under construction, is the longest in the world, at 17 kilometers. In the last three years the city administration has established more than 1100 new parks and has reclaimed more than 1400.

DEMAND

To stimulate public transportation demand and to restrict private car use, work is being done on many fronts:

1. Fees and Taxes

The fee for public parking was increased by 100 percent, while the regulation of fees in private parking lots was removed. Result: citizens reduced their vehicle use because parking became so expensive. A tax was imposed on gasoline that increased its price by 20 percent over the average annual price of the previous year. The revenue obtained through these measures is earmarked for road maintenance and the development of Bogotá's new mass transportation system.

2. Peak and License Plate ("Pico y Placa")

Pico y Placa is a measure that restricts 40 percent of vehicles from traveling during peak hours in the entire urban area (32 000 hectares) to promote the use of public transport and reduce traffic congestion. The restriction on private vehicles runs from 7:00 to 9:00 a.m. and from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m., Monday to Friday, according to the last number on the license plate. Pico y Placa's short-term objective is to raise awareness of the benefits that vehicle reduction on the roads brings, and in the long-term, to reduce car dependency.

"Pico y Placa" Benefits
Reduction of trip duration: 29 minutes (1 hour round trip)
Increase in velocity: 43%
Accident reduction: 28%
Air pollution reduction: 10%
Savings in gasoline per vehicle: US$52.00 per year


3. Cycleway ("Ciclovía")

Every Sunday more than 110 kilometres of highway are closed to public and private transport for seven hours (7:00 a.m.-2:00 p.m.), leaving these roads to the 1.5 million people who move through the city on bicycle, skates or foot. There are social as well as environmental benefits to the road closures. On the Ciclovía, community members make contact with one another, creating community ties. It thus becomes a safe meeting place for people from all social and economic classes.

4. Tolls

To obtain resources for city road maintenance and to control the influx of vehicles, the District Administration presented a proposal to Bogotá City Council that, if approved, will result in tolls at the city entrances collecting US$35 million per year. This means that the district's current resources will no longer be used for road maintenance and can be applied to other priorities such as education, culture and health.

5. "Without my car in Bogotá? Let us imagine a new city."

As a complementary measure to the programs and work carried out by Bogotá City Hall to improve the transportation system in the city and encourage the use of alternative means of transportation, several programs have been initiated to promote citizen awareness. The most significant one was a car-free day on February 24, 2000 called "Without my car in Bogotá? Let us imagine a new city."

CAR-FREE, CARE-FREE

Citizens responded en masse to the idea of Car-Free Day, traveling mainly by public transport as well as alternative means.
Bogotanos got to live a day in the city without private vehicles, with ample space to walk, bike and skate. That day 832 000 private vehicles stopped circulating for 13 hours (from 6:30 a.m. to 7:30 p.m.), leaving the streets to a million and a half bicycles. Even though some European cities had held successful, but timid, car-free days, this was the first time in the world that the use of private vehicles was restricted in an entire city.

Seventy-five percent of Bogotanos traveled by public transportation, using the 22,000 buses and 55,000 taxis available. Environmental and noise pollution were substantially decreased: reductions of nine percent in nitrogen oxides, 28 percent in carbon monoxide and 10 percent in noise level. Additionally, it was the first day in three years in which no fatal traffic accidents were reported. A national polling firm revealed that 87 percent of citizens agreed with the car-free day; 89 percent had no difficulties with the transportation system they used during the event; and 92 percent arrived at work, school or university normally. Even more exciting is that 88 percent would like to hold another car-free day.

National and international media closely followed this event: coverage of the event from the air showed that the streets were car-free, with public transport functioning normally and a huge number of people walking or cycling.

THE INTERNATIONL AWARD

The Stockholm Challenge Award is a non-profit initiative of the City of Stockholm, in association with the European Commission. Programs receiving the award are considered pioneers in the application of technological development that improve quality of life and become models for other cities of the world. The projects may be private, public, academic or non-profit.
On June 5, 2000, the mayor of Bogotá, Enrique Peñalosa, received The Stockholm Challenge Award in recognition of the success of Bogotá's car-free day. More than 600 entries from around the world were submitted to the Stockholm Challenge 2000, from which only 69 finalists were selected. The car-free day in Bogotá was declared the only winner in the environment category, thanks to its impact on and benefits to the population and the environment. Competing projects were from Norway, Canada, Brazil, Estonia, the United Kingdom, the United States, South Africa and India.

The Stockholm Challenge recognized the difficulty of the decision undertaken by Mayor Enrique Peñalosa to stage the largest car-free day ever in terms of both area and population. The award also acknowledged the enormous preparation that contributed to the success of the event, and the participation and collaboration of the citizens. The jury rated the Bogotá car-free day as the best and most revolutionary initiative of a local government that year to improve the quality of life in a city. Ever since the car-free day celebration, Bogotá has been the center of world attention, and with this award it has established itself as a transportation model for the world's largest cities.

CITIZENS DECIDE THEIR FUTURE

On October 29, 2000, a referendum was held in Bogotá in which the mayor's proposal of restricting the use of private vehicles during the six hours of major traffic congestion beginning January 1, 2015, was put forward.
The proposal received 51 percent support; 34 percent voted against it and the balance of the votes were blank ballots. No private vehicles, except taxis, will be allowed to circulate during workdays from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. and from 4:30 to 7:30 p.m. Bogotanos also approved in the referendum the annual celebration of a car-free day on the first Thursday of February, starting in 2001. An ample majority supported this proposal: 63 percent in favor and 26 percent against.

Bogotá must avoid the situation of some of the cities in the United States "where, more than cities with highways, there are highways with cities," in the words of Mayor Enrique Peñalosa. "During the past decades the time lost in traffic jams has been doubling every five years."

The referendum is the first time that Bogotanos have had the opportunity to determine their own transportation future. They did it conscious of the fact that to build an environmentally sustainable city, where public transport is more important than cars, it is necessary to decrease the number of private vehicles and to control non-renewable fuel consumption.

This act not only has major repercussions at a local level, but also at national and international levels, as is evidenced by the attention international experts have given to the referendum results. An international advisory group, EcoPlan International, followed closely the events in Bogotá and then posted on its website a thorough explanation of the referendum. It also began an Internet discussion in which experts on social justice, environment, transportation and urban planning can express their opinions, which you can see at www.ecoplan.org/votebogota2000.

Ministers, mayors, researchers and experts from around the world sent Mayor Peñalosa messages showing their support and expressing their admiration for Bogotá, a city that took on the challenge of confronting in advance the grave problems that all large cities will soon face. They all agreed that Bogotá has garnered worldwide attention and has become a model to follow. Construction of the New City Continues The changes in Bogotá's transportation system, developed by the administration of Mayor Enrique Peñalosa (1998-2000), launched the city on a path toward creating a new city model designed for people, not private vehicles. On January 1 the new mayor for 2001-2003, Antanas Mockus, announced that the main mobility projects would proceed. He led the preparations for the second car-free day, the first under popular mandate. "Democracy in Movement, Car-Free Day 2001" was the name of this event. Two new components made mobility easier and gave citizens a glimpse of travel in the year 2015: 100-plus kilometers of cycle paths and two lines of TransMilenio, with 95 buses transporting 200,000 people.

The priority was public transport; people had to get to know TransMilenio and its feeders to use the system efficiently. It was also important to avoid congestion and increase travel velocity of those vehicles that were allowed, so the space for cyclists was reduced. Mockus also met with some business associations to convince them that the city could function normally without private cars.

Visit the website www.carfreeday.com. Your city will never be the same.

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adrimm says on Feb 1, 2007, 18:50:

Vic The numbers in Bogota are legit, I stumbled onto some stats from the last few years and was impressed at what was clearly genuine data (with downs and ups - hardly all ups).

When I find the link I'll post it here.

Note: I'm not reffereing to the 2001 article numbers I don't know where those came from, but the ones I am telling you are legit are from the transportation authority.

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goin_south says on Feb 1, 2007, 23:59:

come, now... are you guys really going to try to make me believe that NO CARS WERE ON THE ROADS IN BOGOTA TODAY????

dos pesos mio,... pequito de nada

Where do we go from here?

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miamimike says on Feb 2, 2007, 01:27:

The Transmilenio is a Great Concept,,, It is one of the leading ideas on the Drawing Board to reduce our massive traffic congestion here in greater Miami. Cost vs value many think its the best idea going.Best bang for the Taxpayer's Buck!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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JMCana says on Feb 2, 2007, 06:06:

Thanks and comments Adrimm - thank you for the excellent info.

Two cycle engines - definite major polluters. I worked for a lawn company in California and there was talk there of banning 2-cycle leaf blowers because of the pollution. Of course everyone gets their lawn done in California.

Bus pollution - Again coming from California and the tight tight standards there, I can say that visually it appears the vast majority of the buses (not transmilenio) are major polluters and that emission enforcement is greatly lacking.

However with that there is a catch 22 situation. If they quickly enforced the emission standards and took those buses off the road until they passed the emission test, then there probably would not be enough buses to move the people. In a blog post elsewhere on this site someone mentioned that many politicians own bus lines. So probably until the politicians can figure out a way to make money on it, nothing is going to change.

Secretaria de Ambiente - have had more personal dealings with their departments on another topic, but can say you can't trust anything from them. They also seem to suffer of having laws but not enforcing them. even Adrimm above mentioned getting legit numbers.

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vicshere says on Feb 2, 2007, 07:44:

Rubito Give me a break
"This is just another example of how Colombia is actually AHEAD of most of the rest of the world in some areas."
you got to be shitting me
where do you come up with some of these facts I sure would like to know
go back to do your music stuff and leave the analyze to the rest of us


listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 2, 2007, 07:55:

I did like this photo from


I did like this photo from el Tiempo, who wants a convertible when you can have this eco-friendly transport. :))))

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vicshere says on Feb 2, 2007, 08:18:

out comes out come the ugly profanity again.....when people are in a defensive mode people tend to use profanity...I just made that up to

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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vicshere says on Feb 2, 2007, 08:20:

we sure we should put a ban on musicians that don't know shit
listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

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JMCana says on Feb 2, 2007, 10:07:

For the Poor? Sorry Rubito, this time I have to disagree with you. No matter how I analyze it, I can never see an appreciable advantage for the poor with día sin carro.

As for time, My wife took the same bus at the same time once she arrived in Bogota. Normally she is 20 minutes early for work. Yesterday she was 10 minutes late. That is a 30 minute difference or 90% increase in her time to get there.

Sure Colombians get some recognition and say they are the largest city having that no car day for the longest time, but I do not call that an appreciable benefit for the poor. But that along with 1,000 pesos will get them a beer.

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JMCana says on Feb 2, 2007, 10:22:

A follow up day Then again, if you follow up Thursday dia sin carro with free transmilenio and bus day, you help the environment and you help the poor people.

Nah, can't happen too many greedy rich people. Well, it was a thought.

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juancegomez says on Feb 2, 2007, 18:09:

Symbolic, but it's not bad as a symbol I don't wear any ribbons on my shirt but I don't see anything wrong with them at all. It's good enough for those that like that sort of thing. By themselves they are just for show, of course, that's why they're symbolic. But are symbols a bad thing? Insufficient, yes, but not inherently bad.

Now, I don't think the No Car Day is that much of a deal. Whether it benefited the poor specifically is up for debate, but then again it's not like no "rich" guys take buses and no "poor" guys take taxis. There's a certain overlap there (in both directions) that isn't always crystal clear (not even if you just divided the country into two artificial income categories and stopped there).

So if it was a hindrance or a benefit for any individual in either group, that would also vary depending on the factors you take into consideration (specific job, distance from home to work, other places of interest, nominal salary vs. actual income/cash availability, etc).

As for JMCana's idea...

If I had to guess...that could depend on what the private bus owners / companies, not all of them rich (most, but not all. Yet small bus owners are also rather defensive of their line of work and one day without pay / productive work probably isn't nice for them...hey, both of them don't even want to submit to any form of "pico y placa"), want. You'd need a a really persistent local administration and who knows what else in order to arrange something like that.

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adrimm says on Feb 2, 2007, 21:56:

Vic I highly doubt that the UN would have had Penalosa as a speaker at one of it's most well-attended coferences (11,000 + people from around the world) if he had not achieved something significant in Bogota.

Even the US Transportation Research Board is sitting up and noticing. http://www.trb.org/news/blurb_detail.asp?id=6340. If you doubt the validity of the Stockholm award (and Bogota beat out Canadian entries in 2000) then google it and do your own research.

Bogota's success isn't just what it is now, it is what it has come from and that the change has happened so dramatically in pretty much a single decade. Anyone involved in local government knows that it things usually move at a snails pace. Call up the head of transportation planning in any major city and that person will have heard of Bogota.

a picture can be worth 1000 words

As emissions are further enforced in Bogota the city will do even better. Unlike most of our pathetic transit in north america, bogota is further along the way in meeting transportation needs in numerous guises (transmilenio, private bus, taxi, bikes).

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adrimm says on Feb 2, 2007, 22:01:

Galecito Private cars were banned for the 13 hours. Taxis, commercial & businesss vehicles, bulk transit (buses), and emergency vehicles still operated.

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adrimm says on Feb 2, 2007, 22:13:

Rich & Poor I think that the goal is an equitable distribution of acess to transit across the spectrum.

If Bogota let private vehicles run amok, then the 30% of people who own cars (2.1 million cars) would completely take over the roads. Anyone without a car would be severely stuck - even on an bus, and commercial traffic along with emergency vehicles would get stuck as well.

By limiting private car use (pico y placa, high cost of parking, etc) and improving public transit to coax people to use it (faster-than-driving, frequent service) you manage congestion and make it possible for everyone (with and without their own car) to get around faster.

The key for the poorest people, who find transmilenio expensive, is to keep affordable options out there for them - this ranges from keeping the cheap busetas and private buses, to having a well-maintained bike network. Encouragaing cycling not only relieves road congestion, but has health benefits and costs little beyond getting a bike.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Feb 3, 2007, 08:23:

A Modest Proposal (borrowing from Jonathon Swift)



In an effort to reduce congestion and pollution and to increase the overall quality of life, all the beggars/vendors/performers at the intersections in Bogota should be chopped up, put into a nice savory stew and fed to the needy.



Alternatively, the police should simply scare them all away. Multiply the "bad" intersections by the number of cars, trucks and buses that lose a couple of seconds at each change of the light and over a year, I bet the numbers are not insignificant.

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adrimm says on Feb 3, 2007, 10:49:

DonGringo "it did nothing but overload a public transportation system to a point that if today was an example of the future you would want no part of it"

Yes but now the authorities have a benchmark to work from.. how many more articulated buses and regular busetas will be needed relieve the overburden - to create a system that realistically can transport most of the population - and thus be more attractive? They can shift vehicles from routes that are overserved to those that are underserved, purchase more articulated TM buses, liscense (with air-care) more busetas, encourage employers to have showers and secure bike parking etc.

I'd wager that Bogota is one of the only cities in the Americas that has a transportaton system (considering all of the choices that are available) where a day without private cars simply overburdens the system. Most other cites have systems that wouldn't even meet 25% or 30% of the demand if private vehicles suddenly vanished.

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pmg101 says on Feb 5, 2007, 08:34:

empty novena i live on the novena at 116 and have to cross the b*stard every day to go to carrefour, to get lunch, or whatever. i am sure that one day i am going to be killed there.

of course, the solution to /that/ particular problem would be to build a pedestrian bridge, but back to this thread...

i went out midmorning on car-free day and novena was just empty. it was practically a pedestrian walkway! the taxis didnt even appear to be taking advantage of the lack of traffic to drive at their usual late-night break-neck speeds.

i myself was amazed. before the day, i had said, but hang on its the buses and trucks that belch all the smoke, and they're still allowed, so what difference will it make? it made a massive difference. the walk down to calle 100 was quiet, unsmoky, and not a threat to my life.

i just wish they'd extend it to the other 364 days of the year.

oh, and replace all the filthy busetas with modern buses.

but overall i was amazed to see this happen in bogota not brighton, and feel like i should be taking my hat off to someone, even if i don't know who.

it was funny when i got to la javeriana and had to listen to all the bourgeois students there whining about how mummy couldn't use her car today. haha stuck-up rich kids, now you know what its like for the 70% of the population who just can't afford cars.

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adrimm says on Feb 5, 2007, 17:39:

Hear Hear!
Hear Hear!

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2007, 01:52:

Today it gives a glimpse of what can be Feb 1st had:
- fewer car accidents
- a 15% increase in average speed for commercial vehicles
- less reliance on carbon-fossil fuels
- people changing behaviour & experimenting (an adaptable population is a huge boon)
- a break from the norm - wear your walking shoes to work
- A chance for the city to learn - benchmark, identify gaps in transit, identify service improvements for the coming year etc. See where people go (yearly, rather than on the census cycle).

Other benifits:
- without dia Sin Carros 6 years ago how do you think people would
responded to Transmilenio? It was the stick that I'm sure got a few bodies onto it that otherwise wouldn't have... and obviously some found it convenient. - led to better traffic. Ditto for the biking.. might take a little longer to pick up, but on some Feb 1sts there will be people who will say "screw the transmilenio, I'll bike to school (or work)", and then decide it's actually an alright way to get around.

They are reporting an increase of only 16,000 passengers on the transmilenio(normally transports nearly a million people). I've been sardined into a bus on rush hour on a normal day, so I don;t really know what to make of the number, other than it seems a bit low.

It sounds like people riding the Transmilenio were upset becuase of being crammed and having to wait a bit.. so all they need to make it work is more service to get freqeuncy and capacity to the place where people stop moping, and everyone moves faster.

If Bogota went from no Transmilenio to a system that handles nearly 1 million riders/day in 7 years, then it's reasonable to expect that the next 7 years can address capacity issues.

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adrimm says on Feb 7, 2007, 23:50:

NYC That's true DG. And Unfortunately for people to use these systems they can't be half ass systems.. must have extensive coverage, high frequnecy, and nearly 24 hour servce. Getting funding for such a system is difficult, especially for cities that are spread out with low density. So yes I do agree..getting people to use transit is definitely far more than just getting rid of cars, it's related to having a good alternative.. which in turn can be related to the form of the city.

Never any easy solutions

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webmanco says on Feb 8, 2007, 16:58:

DonGringo A few years ago I would get home really late, (on public transport). While it is true that after midnight there are less chances to cacth a bus that leaves your near your home, it is also true that at those hours there are "carros piratas" and if you wait a little there would be a regular bus, just on a few routes, who do the transportation. When I drop someone home after midnight I do see a few people walking towards their home, sometimes women by themselves, I guess it is not too dangerous, and I am not talking just on the north area.


And by the way after midnight it could be dangerous all over the world, I mean Bogotá regardless wheter it is south, west, east or north.

Bogotá is doing good and don´t need to be compare to any other city in the world.

The day without car is a positive change, I for once on a week day went to work on skates using the roads of Bogotá.

As usual anything that seems positive, it is not in your eyes. I still wonder what do people see on some of your comments.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Feb 9, 2007, 01:02:

Don´t have much time, man of a few words

No se le enseña a su papá a tener hijos.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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JMCana says on Feb 9, 2007, 05:14:

Room for improvement Like Rubito and DG, I use all public transportation. My problem is that I have to rely upon the buses outside of Bogota as well. Yes, they do have transportation for the masses. However I have to agree with Rubito that there is much much room for improvement. It is impossible for me to enjoy a cultural event in Bogota such as at Teatro Colon and make it back home. Besides the price of the tickets I need to shell out for a hotel room and I only live 30 minutes from the city. And Rubito recently found out the difficulty of getting back to Bogotá from Tabio and Cajica as early as 9pm in the evening.

And instead of getting better they are getting worse. The bus that use to drive my wife directly to Portal Norte now refuses to enter with passengers and drops everyone off near Santa Fe mall.

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webmanco says on Feb 9, 2007, 09:37:

Portal 80 is a meeting point for people going out to Faca, La Vega, Chimbe, Villeta and elswhere. Just call them, is local call won´t cost you much. (Flota company, 5708810 )

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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JMCana says on Feb 9, 2007, 11:32:

Not needed in Detroit NYC is different than Detroit and my time there was always as a tourist so I cannot speak about it. But to compare transportation in Detroit and Bogotá is comparing apples to oranges. In Detroit, the motor city, and the suburbs they never found it necessary to put in any descent public transportation. Everyone owns a car and some families own more cars than they have drivers. Just take a look at the size of the school student parking lots, especially in the cities just outside of Detroit. And we are not talking junker cars either. A 16th birthday for the suburb kids is almost an automatic car as a gift.

I was among them when there, We had three drivers in the family and four vehicles. And compared to what we made working, it was cheap and the safest for our children. People working for minimum wage would not even think of not owning a car. Financing a car in the USA is cheap. I have seen and taken advantage of interest rates as low as 2.9% annual on a new vehicle to 4.9% on a used vehicle.

Even when the vehicle broke, I had someone with a car there within minutes for a rescue and happy to help.

The roads in most places are made to accommodate many people driving cars. My wife and I recently drove across the USA starting in California. We were constantly at 120 KPH without a problem. Most major cities have by-passes allowing you to quickly skirt the city.

Last year I decided to ride the People Mover in Detroit. That above ground rail system is a great way to get around the city. But I was only 1 of 5 people on it at any time. The system is great, it runs 24 hours, it is safe - but not needed that much. Currently it would be ridiculous for Detroit to spend money expanding the system, not that many people would need to use it. And parking at most places is Free.

True that there are certain neighborhoods in Detroit that you don't even think of driving down at night, but that is not different than staying out of specific areas of Colombia.

Take a look at the idea of a carpool lane in California. Note, very few people use it because they can afford to and prefer to drive by themselves. I spent many hours in a traffic jam around Silicon valley while there were very few cars in the carpool lane. But I do enjoy the BART system around SF.

But in Bogotá cars are not cheap compared to income. poverty level is much higher than in Detroit. Also when my wife went to purchase a Chevrolet, GMAC, the same company that gave me 2.9% interest in the USA gave her 24% interest. Parking usually costs money. All of this makes it more difficult for more people to own a car. You can't have every teenager driving a car and every working person owning a couple of them. So the emphasis in Bogota needs to be on public transportation. And in that there is room for improvement, especially in getting around in the later hours of the night. I think it is to their advantage to allow people to enjoy the night life and cultural agendas of Bogotá and still be able to get home safe.

Perhaps if Bogotá was the auto capital of South American and had a 10% poverty level they may have designed their transportation different.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with keeping teenagers off the road in many parts of the USA. I see an advantage of more people using mass transportation. But the society is not built like that, and even if you build the best mass transit system around people will still prefer to blast their own music in their own car and have control of where they go because it is easy and cheap for them.

For the most part, the USA is a place built for and using cars. Colombia is more dedicated for using mass transportation. I hope they make it the best in the world and win many awards for it. But to do that they need to concentrate on and improve the problem areas.

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adrimm says on Feb 9, 2007, 13:15:

Sprawl and choosing to move away from it (or not give in) Bogota wasn't always destined to be a mass-transit city.. while they've always had tons of buses and cabs they reached a point where there were more and more private vehicles on the road and had to make a conscious choice to pursue a system like the transmilenio and introduce measures to make having a car difficult (ie expensive & inconvenient). The risk of standstill movement and poor air quality was too great.

Trust me, if a government has the mandate and drive (forgive the pun), they could very easily make driving very expensive. Gas tax, vehicle sales tax etc, etc. Just look at european gas taxes.

Part of what makes it easier is that both NYC and Bogota, along with most european cities, were already well developed long before before car ownership became common. They chose to have mass transit while a) it was an obvious benefit to the majority at the time and b) it wasn't as prohibitively expensive (here is where Bogota got clever). While Bogota may have started for social aquity reasons, the benefits are more than social equity - ie anyone can afford to ride: you've got less land dedicated to roadways (more for the market & housing), fewer vehicles spewing fumes = better air quality than the alternative, more people being active = less healthcare costs.

The car-centric design (aka sprawl) is a comfortable norm for many of us, but in the long run is a very costly way to live. Land that could be used for housing or local farms gets sucked into freeways, people don't really get to know those living around them, spend hours commuting rather than with family (becuase everything gets too spread out), eat food shipped from far away becuase the best agricultural land has houses on it, air quality can suffer - some cities get the warnings now "those with respiratory problems stay indoors"..

http://www.newurbanism.org/newurbanism/sprawlhealth.html
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2004/112-11/focus.html

And soon enough, the affordability of it won't be so obvious (watch those energy prices).

What cities need to do is contain their sprawl and focus on infilling and densifying. Have your box stores & huge malls, but stick the parking underground and throw condos on top. Portland is much lauded for its movement away from car-centrism towards more creatve altermatives.

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