No bombs, new administration, hooray

mcraig says on Aug 9, 2006, 21:22:

The Farc was unable to do anything durning the bush visit An that meant alot that was the first time a US president had visited Colombia in along time. The Farc is not comparable to the USSecret Service an the colombian military.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2006, 21:28:

I wouldn't count the FARC out quite yet. They've been at this for 40 years and I'm sure they'll still be in business 40 years from now.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 10, 2006, 15:07:

40 years? I'd actually be surprised if the FARC were around in any meaningful similarity to its current form in 40 years. The reason I say that is not that I expect Uribe or the next president to rub them out like ants, but simply because the world changes and so must even political or criminal groups. The FARC already long outlasted the shelf life of your average commie guerilla army. I don't think the conditions that allow them to flourish will still be in place in 4 decades.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 10, 2006, 15:10:

Not sure about the Bush visit Clinton came to Colombia too, during the height of FARC power, and they weren't able to get near him either, so I don't know exactly how significant that is. I actually don't think the FARC would want to hit a US president because they know EXACTLY how that would end up, with Arauca looking like a twice-paved Wall-Mart parking lot.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2006, 10:44:

The Mafia began in Sicily in the mid 1800s and migrated to the US in the late 1800s. I think the FARC can match the Italians for longevity.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 11, 2006, 13:05:

Does that mean we're gonna soon see Juan Gotti running the arepa racket in NYC?

utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2006, 20:26:

Muy chistoso, Senor.
Muy chistoso, Senor.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Sr Tertius says on Aug 13, 2006, 20:26:

Old administration No bombs, yes, and I am very happy for that. New administration? Hardly. The old clientelist system is back, with new exciting flavors! Academics are being threatened out of the country, the military is getting virtually pardoned for their excesses, and FARC is keeps infiltrating every segment of society. Are the bets up for a third period, with everyone happy that FARC didn't ruin the party?

My sincere, non-sarcastic wishes for what appears to be peace talk preparations. Let's hope that Uribe and FARC do not exploit this for their short-term political benefit, like Pastrana and FARC did a few years ago.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 13, 2006, 20:56:

Perhaps I should have said... "New term" not "new administration" but you know what I mean.

Sr Tertius says on Aug 14, 2006, 08:47:

I know what you meant... It's just that "new" and "Uribe" go together like "intellectual" and "Bush."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 14, 2006, 09:12:

Luckily at least, "intellectual" and "Uribe" do go together better than "intellectual" and "Bush".

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 14, 2006, 13:26:

Better grades than Kerry at what? I don't have president Bush's report cards at my fingertips but I seem to recall from the campaign that he was a mediocre student, not that grades have much of anything to do with one's intellectual curiousity or exposure.

I think Bush's lack of intellectual curiousity is apparent. He's pretty much cast himself as an anti-intellectual, in fact, on any number of issues from global warming to stem-cell research to, well, let's be honest, intelligence gathering.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 14, 2006, 13:41:

Nah I wasn't comparing Bush to Kerry, anyway. I'll put my bets on Uribe's GPA against Bush's any day, though. Or his score in a game of scrabble, in either language.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 14, 2006, 14:46:

Henchmen! Human Butchers! I think you've been watching too many thriller movies.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 14, 2006, 16:29:

Since you asked I'm actually more afraid of Cheney than anyone around Uribe that I know of. And not because of his quail hunting mishap.

For what it's worth, Washington DC scares me way more than Bogotá, too, and not because of its crime rate.

What books have you been reading?

utopiacowboy says on Aug 14, 2006, 19:29:

Tinto, you're talking about my mother-in-law. Besides in Colombia, you always need to have plenty of "friends" with guns. Everybody in Colombia's got "mud" on them. It's a muddy place.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

juancegomez says on Aug 16, 2006, 12:59:

Well... Tinto:

I don't think it's as clear cut as that, even if I can imagine some of the reasoning behind your point. But most of the people you are probably thinking of were, are and will be "butchers" both long before and long after Uribe. They are not inexplicably and necessarily linked to him, forever and ever. In fact, I'd say that most of them are opportunists rather than "friends", people who want more out of him rather than the other way around (at least for now).

I'd like to know which you books you've read too (I've been reading some books on similar subjects, but I see that my conclusions aren't identical).

UC:
"Besides in Colombia, you always need to have plenty of "friends" with guns."

Guess that means I must be living somewhere that's not Colombia, because I don't have such friends.

"Everybody in Colombia's got "mud" on them. It's a muddy place."

I'd agree with the last part, but not with the first.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 18, 2006, 09:07:

Not even your friends' friends?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

mcraig says on Aug 18, 2006, 15:38:

counting out farc As soon as Colombia starts putting more people to work an kids in school an churches an companies throughout the country the farc will be gone.When people are working, providing an learning there is no reason for war intelligence takes over. An lets not forget every year the US military an security companies provide more an more weapons an training to the Colombian military an year after year they will be better trained an the Farc an whatever terroist groups will be dead.

mcraig says on Aug 18, 2006, 15:42:

The Mafia vs the Farc If you go back to the time period of the height of the mafia in the USA they make the FARC look like children with water pistols. The mafia eiter paid off or killed any member of goverment local or federal an every judge local or federal that was in there area. Sorry , the Farc will never an has never come close to having that kinda of power.

mcraig says on Aug 18, 2006, 15:43:

Bush not an intellectual Can you please post copies of your degrees from Yale an Harvard.

mcraig says on Aug 18, 2006, 15:47:

Mediocre student at Yale an Harvard Believe me the snotty regime an Alumni at Yale an Harvard do not care who you are they dont pass out grades to anyone an they dont let anyone float by. The professors an staff at these unviversities think there the smartest people in the world an dont think anyone else knows sh$T. An to say someone made a C at these colleges means they would have A plus plus 4.0 at any other college.

mcraig says on Aug 18, 2006, 15:49:

Uribe live on man ! Uribe is the president the Colombians could ever hope for , I hope he stays 30 years. Amend the constitution now to let him stay as long as he is healthy an his mind is good.

juancegomez says on Aug 18, 2006, 18:23:

UC: Now that's another story, but since I'm a man of few friends...my friends' friends are mostly unknown to me, thankfully, so I can't answer that question.

Sr Tertius says on Aug 19, 2006, 09:08:

UC "in Colombia, you always need to have plenty of "friends" with guns."

I think you overgeneralize a bit. I lived well half of my life in Colombia without a need for a gun, and with plenty of friends, none of whom had guns or needed friends who had guns.

I don't mean it as a comparison, but given that some of my neighbors here in Phoenix are engaging in what they call "recreational violence," I am seriously considering getting myself a 12-gauge.

If I recall well, your wife is/was involved in politics in Cordoba (which, btw, was Cordova... that's a long stupid story)? If so, I can imagine why she would think that you need friends with guns. Plenty of them over there.

"Everybody in Colombia's got "mud" on them."

Yeah, ALMOST everyone. Directly or indirectly. If you bought a computer in Unilago in the 80s-90s, you probably contributed to the narcos money laundry. If you bought an apartment in Cali, you probably helped a mafia cover business. And many of those things are still going. It is, indeed, a muddy place.

Not that I like mud, but I still enjoy my regular visits. No guns involved.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

utopiacowboy says on Aug 19, 2006, 12:45:

Your comments are always of interest and appreciated, Sr Tertius.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

cali373 says on Nov 30, 2006, 11:18:

I have to agree with Mr. Hollywood. We are in different times and since guerilla groups have the stigma that they want to take over and into a murderous communist regime, they will not likely prevail in today's South America. Especially when Democratic political parties with socialist ideas have been taking over most of South America and proving that Civil war is not the answer. The only problem is that in Colombia the old money oligarch has always been notorious in violently suppressing opposition with impunity (e.g. Unión Patriótica, Gaitan). Which basically defeats the purpose of having a democracy. I truly believe that if Colombians (ALL, not just the big cities) get a sense that their voices will be heard without being killed. We will see the end of the FARC. Keep also in mind that the main reason the FARC was established was due to the National Front. Which isn't a democracy, I do not know why academics insist during those years Colombia was still a democracy. A better rural infrastructure system will also help.

Smile if you are a thinker!

juancegomez says on Nov 30, 2006, 17:48:

cali373 The National Front wasn't a democracy (and if you were idealistic enough, you could argue that Colombia still isn't one, an interpretation that even I share on a couple of levels) in the full, theoretical sense of the word, yes. But keep in mind that the start of the National Front was ratified by a referendum with a very high % of popular participation.

In other words, clearly the National Front was the result of a political pact between the two party elites, but most of the electorate (which still overwhelmingly belonged to either of the two parties) willingly ratified that pact on the ballot box, at least originally.

You could say that it was a democratic act that restricted democracy, as ironic as that might sound.

Still, democracy remains, in any case, a very subjective term. There is no universally accepted definition of it. For some it's merely a formal system of representative government and nothing else. For others, other definitions apply.

And about the possibility for opposition, cali373, that may have been the case "a groso modo", but right now the Democratic Pole is enjoying unprecedented success with a historically low amount of violence towards its members (not zero, but nothing remotely comparable to the violence against the UP, which btw occurred at a time when Colombia as a whole was getting very violent, even against government officials and others, as any basic research on the history of Colombia will confirm).