New Way to Bring Money to Colombia??

gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 05:54:

I think Big BillD is in Miami right now............anyone else want to get together for dinner in the Miami area, let me know by PM.

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Brians says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:01:

Gringoloid the shares are not listed in Colombia. However it is interesting because they could still sell them via an inter-broker relationship in USA and convert back to Pesos for you. However I see no advantage as every brokerage charges a fee like banks on coversions of currency. Therefore a lot of work for no advantage. Even if the shares were listed in Colombia they would not be the same shares which you own on a US exchange. Therefore the shares you buy in US have to be sold in US and visa versa. Each exchange lists shares differently i.e. buying Banco Colombia in USA it is a different share than in Colombia. There are foreign shares in which like mentioned above need to settle on there respective exchange (Colombia) and then converted back to dollars. Then there are ADRs which are actually trusts that represent beneficial ownership of the company in Colombia and settle in the USA but need no conversion. In short no advantage as the MSFT shares you own in US have to be settled on sales in USA and converted back to Pesos.

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wendell13 says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:05:

Exactly......he is just looking to make a commission

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morphus says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:08:

Middle Man gets the middle finger :)

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:20:

BrianS..........being that I know you, and know what you do for a living..........i'm going to send you all the details and then you decide whether he's blowing smoke in my face.

What I'm looking for is a way to stay locked and loaded for a situation like last week when the peso weakened and I need to make a fast move. Once you're all setup, as you know, it is only a quick phone call.

We're working through this today and i want to tell you that there is a pbher here, not me, that is bringing in a shitload of money today by this method.

I not only have those questions you raised but i think there are a lot more, like wouldn't they want to see the stock certificates? What if they're in street name? When i worked on wall st, people used to bring in phony certificates quite frequently.

He's claiming that it is settled in pesos, not dollars; so we'll check that first.

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tejasmarcos says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:32:

i have an interest here as well. please share with me the findings privately or publicly...

gracias!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 06:59:

the problem is that a lot of people do not know that there is more than one way to do things here in colombia. probably about 15 different ways judging by how many different answers i get to questions when i pose them to DIAN, DAS, lawyers, and accountants.

now i just renewed my business visa; it took about 30 minutes of my time, cost me $800.000 for the lawyer, accountant, camera de comercio, and MRE. I NEVER had to go to MRE in Bogota to applly or pick up my visa.

Aside from Pedro, basically every single person who has ever commented on PBH about renewing a visa did not know the easiest way to do this.

Some of you guys have to realize that this is colombia and there are many ways to accomplish something. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying there are better ways to do things.

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Brians says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:01:

Gringoloid I do not know the ins and outs of opening a brokerage account in Colombia or procedures in producing stock certificates. However I will tell you that your stocks will need to be settled the sale on the US exchange. This is a three day settlement. Thus the conversion back to Pesos would be three days after the sale (In which you will have to pay the commission). This is about the same time as an International wire. I see no advantage and the lack of knowledge of their commission makes this seem a bit expensive. Think about it. If you have shares of Banco Colombia issued in Colombia do you really think you can settle that trade in the USA. Absolutely not as those shares on the NYSE are ADRs and completely differnent than foreign ordinary shares. I could sell them for a client but need to route the trade to Colombia and then convert the settled proceeds back to dollars as all US accounts are dollar denominated. Thus a commsion and a conversion plus whatever time delay in settleing trade..

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Brians says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:10:

One other thought after thinking about it is it may help (Not sure) on not having to file form 4. Because the brokerage account recieves your stock certificate maybe this would serve as evidence of how money was obtained. Thus might simplify that part but I have no idea. The Form 4 really just proves the origins of the money an thus rpotects from laundering etc.. I assume this creates ample papertrails in that instance but I would have my doubts with getting a straight answer on that from DIAN and I see no advantage. I would want to keep my US stocks in the US and wire money down. Heck I don't even know the recievorship process in Colombia. Are your securities separated from general operating accounts of the brokerage?? I would advise you not to go down this path. Just my thoughts.

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huskie says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:30:

IMHO that does not sound too heatlthy, I could be wrong, and very careful as well
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:48:

that's a good question about are the securities separated from the general operating accounts of the brokerage.

I don't think so, but I'll find out and that is the key.

alright, let me throw this out.............the 'stock' does not have to be sold on any exchange. the colombian brokerage can keep the certificates in street name for as long as they want.

they keep the stock and keep the certificates in colombia all for a smaller fee than if it was sold and then converted to dollars and then back to pesos on an american exchange.

you're right, this is getting complicated................i'll call you on a land line when they answer my questions.

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:51:

I thought the Form 4 was just for real estate transactions?

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Brians says on Jul 8, 2008, 07:56:

Form 4 is real estate I thought that was why you might be looking at this.

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 08:00:

the key to this is that the transaction is only me handing over stock certificates and them handing me pesos.

how about this for a conspiracy theory: they then take the stock certificates and use them to trade for dollars to a colombian drug dealer who wants to launder money. the launderer then takes the certificates and completes the deal by then trading them on an exchange and going throught he process you described for conversion.

(you know very well how my mind works!)

just a thought, but i would be doing nothing illegal and I would be getting the greatest exchange rate ever heard of around here.

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 08:14:

actually it's not for real estate, just money to operate with while i live here. i miss that 2300 exchange rate when i first came to colombia.

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miamimike says on Jul 8, 2008, 10:27:

Prepaid Credit Cards you get at any Nationwide Check cashing Store. You can load them up to $9999.00. And they are guaranteed,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 11:30:

mike, but then you have to convert that at the cash machine.

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droble77 says on Jul 8, 2008, 11:46:

gringoloid, what kind of rate of conversion are you looking at with these financial transactions? I thought the ATMs gave the best rate, at least for small withdrawals. I take it you're thinking about bringing larger sums in and not having to deal with wire transfers?

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gringoloid says on Jul 8, 2008, 17:50:

I spoke with the man on the phone................he is a 'factor' not a broker.

the company is very old and established ........ he is amongst the richest men in medellin.

We're both flying out of colombia early in the morning..........i will have to report back with my findings later.

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