New Rules on EPS?

panthdave says on Jul 10, 2007, 16:59:

You will have to still make seperate payments too...I had to go to Davivenda to pay the pension and have to pay the insurance at Banco de Bogota or Avillas...I am sure this is the same thing because I asked my girlfriend about this and she said you have to know take the pension or you cannot get insurance..

The bank was even alittle confused and another thing Davivenda cannot take the pension payment on Saturdays...

Monday thru Friday..

panthdave Miami

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BAQ says on Jul 10, 2007, 17:46:

Got the same crap from COOMEVA, get this letter from them saying the wife and I would have to pay into the pension plan due to public law declaration number XYZ ect ect ect. Well, to date, have not paid ONE PENNY to the pension and COOMEVA has never refused to take our health insurance payment. In fact, I paid our health insurance as recently as last thursday and not one word from them.

I think this is another one of those Colombian laws-rules that looks great on paper but will never be enforced. Have heard LOTS of people here in barranquilla who are self employed saying they CANT AFFORD TO PAY BOTH INSURANCE AND PENSION. So I dont see them emforcing it and ending up with a large % of self employed people not have any health insurance.

Semper Fidelis !

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Gator says on Jul 10, 2007, 19:42:

BAQ, Same company and the same situation for us here in Bogotá

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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miamimike says on Jul 11, 2007, 00:44:

What is the rational for merging the Plans? How long do you have to contribute to the Pension before you can collect?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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lawyer CO says on Jul 11, 2007, 05:15:

It was the goverment that ordered to all citizens to contribute to pension and health at the same time. I will look for the degree.

The difference is that according to the final number of your cedula, is the time to start to pay.
law 100/93

Esteban R.
Colombian lawyer
email: lawyerscolombia at yahoo.com

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Atrevido says on Jul 11, 2007, 07:28:

Interesting. We are in the same boat. Coomeva/EPS. My cedula even says pensionado.

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Tammy says on Jul 11, 2007, 08:28:

supposedly you are suppose to be grandfathered in if you already have a plan. This came from Coomeva Prepagdado. The problem is only suppose to be if you are seeking insurance as a new patient. This was explained to me and another gringo friend who has been here 10 years with Coomeva.
There is an alternative if you do not want to pay into a pension fund here. It is Indedpendent insurance for self employed people (very similar to what we have in the states.) This happens to be the way I have my ins. The name of the co I use is Forteleza, not sure if they are all over or not, but you should be able to find a company. No, I don´t work, but this is only avail. to self employed people. I told them I am a seamstress, and my premiums are about 72mil mo. My agent knows I do not work, and could care less, so don´t worry about providing paperwork and the ususal stuff. If you do this, pick a profession with low risk injury- no bomber pilots- or you´ll pay dearly for your premium. This has workers comp (their version) attached to it, so that is why you want to select a job low risk for injury. (Translator works well).
Tammy

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panthdave says on Jul 11, 2007, 10:27:

Okay this pension is only for self employed only..and others that have a pension..with there job don't have to pay into this pension..

This is confusing..

Again my GF told me this morning they could not take her pension payment but the bank took the insurance payment She says this is crazy..Well I hope they don't enforce the pension payment..This is great they want you to pay into this pension but the bank refuses to take the money for the pension..

panthdave Miami

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ds says on Jul 11, 2007, 11:03:

The EPS is an insurance exclusively for employees. Whoever is insured also has a right to pensions etc. A company that inscribes employees has the obligation to pay not only healthcare and pensions but also stuff like SENA, Confenalco etc. ( Anyhow many companies used to pay only healthcare but no pensions. Since this year companies have to pay insurance, pension etc in one single web-transaction. This benefits the employee but you caan't opt anymore for just healthcare. - The only way is to leave employees insurance and sign up for a private health insurence.

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robi666 says on Jul 11, 2007, 11:13:

ds, if you sign up for a prepagada, then you MUST pay for a EPS too! Actually I pay for my EPS but not for a pension: I pay through a Cooperativa from Barranquilla, and they are not actually requesting anything for pension. Why, I don't know, it just seems that anyone you ask to has a different version of the story.
BAQ has a big point on that.
A cooperativa in Medellin wanted the money for pension...
Let's wait and see...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 05:30:

I need to find out more information...on this...because its driving me crazy...We have to make a payment for insurance and a pension payment for my Novia..To have the insurance its necessary to have the pension plan even my GF is confused along with banks accepting the payments..

panthdave Miami

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mrxcol says on Jul 16, 2007, 20:54:

For all you guys: a bit of information about the social security system, and later, detailed info about the question from fecherklyn and panthdave:

In the colombian social security system, Every company is forced to register their employees into many systems:

Health (EPS): Every employee had to pay 12% of their monthly wage. The company was forced to pay 8% (2/3rd) and the employee 4% (1/3rd) which was discounted from their monthly paycheck.

Pension: Every employee had to pay 15.5% of their monthly wage. The company was forced to pay 11.625% (3/4th) and the employee 3.875% (1/4th) which was discounted from their monthly paycheck.

ARP: An special kind of professional disease insurance. If any employee had an accident while at his job, that was something the EPS wouldn't handle. This was something the ARP (Administrador de Riesgos Profesionales) had to deal with. The employee would had to pay nothing for this medical service as this was fully paid by the company at different rates depending on the job of the employee.

SENA, ICBF, Caja de compensación: This are some other expenses the company must pay for every employee. They're about 4%, 3% and 2% of the whole payroll.

--> SENA (Servicio Nacional de Aprendizaje) is the colombian national education service. It has lot's of courses, whether technical or professional, all of them totally free.
--> ICBF (Instituto Colombiano de Bienestar Familiar). Simmilar to US social service, is the colombian institution which cares for kids. If a parent can't support his kid, ICBF will take him to their foster homes.
--> Caja de Compensación (couldn't find a traduction for this): Is a service in which every employee must register their employees which provides extra benefits for them. This "compensation service" would care for the employee by giving access to recreational parks they have, low rates loans (only for house buying for one time), a special subsidy the government gives to any employee when buying their first house (COP$ 7'000.000), and travel plans for the employee.

In the beginning (about 1960), the ISS (Instituto del Seguro Social), first named ICSS (Instituto Colombiano de Seguridad Social) was the only institution which could handle the health, pension and ARP. It was state owned. There was a problem: the self-employed people had no coberture. Theorically speaking, the self-employed people was wealthy enough to pay their own private doctors and those who didn't were supposed to go the medical center sposored by the government.

Due to many problems, health and pension began to fall in quality. Those who had money could subscribe into a prepaid medical service which was very much better than the service the ISS could provide. Long queues, lack of medicine and no prestige forced the government to analyze other systems in the world. By seeing the success of the system in Chile, in 1993, the so called Law 100 was enacted and this allowed private companies to provide the same health services, as well as in the pension and ARP's field.

The employee chose which company he would like for health and pension services. The company still kep the right to choose which ARP would handle his proffesional related illness. The worker was able to switch every two years and if he had prepaid medical service HE HAD TO BE SUBSCRIBED into the pension system (pay pension). And for the self-employed, there was the choice to pay for health and pension and "enter into the system". The other choice was to keep on using the government sponsored medical center.

Paying for health (EPS) and pension was very normal at the beginning because everybody who had prepaid service had to be in the ISS except for the few wealthy who always used private doctors. But as the time passed, many self-employed people retired themselves (stopped paying) from the EPS and in some cases the pension but kept on paying prepaid medical services. Like i said before, the difference was, and is, big. The prepaid medical services companies simply "forgot" to check if the that the person was paying their EPS system (prepaid is supposed to subsidize the EPS systems: theorically, whoever has money to pay the prepaid service has a good income and must help with the others who don't. Also the pension system works on the basis that today's new workers (we the young people) are paying for the pension of those who are retired now).

Well after this short introduction to the colombian social securities system, let's get to the question:

As of april 2007, (starting with a law about a year ago but i don't remember the name nor number) the rules changed. In the past there was a different date and form for EPS, pension, ARP, ICB, SENA and "Compensation service". Not only this was a lot of paperwork for the companies: also, this was impossible for the government to verify the information.

Now, companies have to pay the EPS, pension, ARP, ICB, SENA and "compensation service" all in a single form called the Planilla Integrada de Liquidación de Aportes - PILA, in a single bank, in a single date and payment. A new entity was created: the PILA operator: Now, companies must choose a PILA operator which would give them the unique government authorized form. The operator's job is to verify the information and to provide a single form (planilla) number. This form number is the only way to pay. The operator does his job through the internet or by telephone and his jobs ends by giving the company this number and by contacting you with the bank, also, whether by internet or directly there.

For self-employed people is almost the same thing. Every self-employed must register himself with any PILA operator he wants and PAY FOR EPS AND PENSION at least. The operator won't proceed if you don't pay both. It's not a thing of "go and find an operator which for a bribe, would allow you to pay EPS but not pension". You're dealing with a website or with a guy behind a telephone. And if go the your EPS they will tell you "Sir, you must pay for both of them. We're the EPS company not the PILA operator, there's nothing we can do".

And for prepaid medical services companies it's linked to this by the EPS contribution. They must insure that every member is already up to date with his EPS payments. Possibly some will have problems, will miss some people from having their EPS payments, but the will improve. The colombian health ministry is improving their technology (as well as DIAN). I wouldn't count on playing against IRS if i'd live in the usa.

Actually there's one single way to avoid the pension payment: If you're already a retired and can prove it. If you choose this option, you must already be receiving pension from any company and this must confirm. But there's no point on it. If you are already retired, you don't do anything of this because your pension payment already has discounted you EPS payment. You must pay EPS until you die. And pension until you retire.

Hope this works. I now that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's the true. I now that because i've been self-employed for the last seven years, the same time my father has been in US and i've dealed with all his EPS and pension stuff here in Cali.

One final point: you may ask yourselves, "why do i have to pay pension if i'm old enough and that maked no logic ?" because this "lost" payments are alreay computed into the system. As well as the people who dies, the people who never get the minimum of weeks and receives the minimum retirement pension, the people who leaves the country, along with the young people who's starting their career now, we all pay the pension of the people who's already enjoying the third age.

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elk says on Jul 17, 2007, 05:52:

MRXCOL: Good information.

I just received an email from "lawyer Co." aka: Esteban. He has been researching this subject and will be posting the results. I asked him for facts and not an opinion. He currently has the facts.

There are exclusions to the pension program. In my case, over 55 yrs age, which allows me to pay into the EPS medical plan not be required to pay into the Colombian pension program.

Esteban will be posting the law relating to this exclusion. I have ask him to include the Spanish version so you can do your own translation to English.

I would like to thank "lawyer co" for his time and research. Medical insurance and the Pensionado Visa are very important subjects for a number of people retired and living in Colombia.

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