need advice I.C.E. Revoking a Colombian's visa Ongoing Criminal Investigation

pink_lotus says on Sep 13, 2005, 00:48:

excuse all the typos :)

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saltygeo says on Sep 13, 2005, 11:10:

Get a lawyer - NOW!

saltygeo

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BAQ says on Sep 13, 2005, 11:11:

Details OK, give us some details of what they did to you and why. How do you know so much about them? Are they family members, business associates, friends ect.

Semper Fidelis !

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 13, 2005, 11:43:

FYI I think she posted some of the history in the various plastic surgery posts a few months ago.

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pink_lotus says on Sep 13, 2005, 12:04:

Thanks Tinto for having remembered!

Before I did not have the actual documentation to prove that there were indeed being investigated by the Colombian Fiscalia , and that these charges were pressed against them.

It just seems that our Embassy is so stingy on handing out visas ( and many times denies visas to law abiding good Colombians!!!!!) Why should these jerkos/criminals be allowed to enter the country?

I am going to do everything I can to make sure they don't step foot in the USA again.

Looking for any advice....

THanks!

I have a general plan , D.O.J. , I.C.E. , and the embassy itself.

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BAQ says on Sep 13, 2005, 15:45:

now i am CURIOUS OK, so where is the other post, now you have me really curious

Semper Fidelis !

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 13, 2005, 20:40:

A couple of posts above were deleted the parties had an opportunity to do a little name calling and then respond to each other. Es suficiente. ;-)



Please keep it civil from here on out.

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ws244 says on Sep 14, 2005, 06:23:

civil Colombian law is different than U.S. law, particularly in tort laws.
No different than Aruba criminal law versus U.S. criminal law. The typical response is always the same, have good times, take advantage of good prices in another country, but when issues do not go ones way, call in the military, news media, state department, etc. etc, and when they do not respond in ones judgement then call the U.S government, their embassies, etc inept. Something here called personal responsibility in decisions in life many people on this board are serverely lacking thereof. These are soverign countries and Revoking a U.S visa is just not going to happen for this type of issue.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 14, 2005, 08:40:

When you wrestle with pigs... ...you're going to get muddy.

For whatever harm has been done to Pink_lotus, I think she should think carefully about the battle she wishes to wage. Not that she shouldn't defend her position, but she should seriously consider her opponents.

I don't know if she has a valid or defensible position, and it really doesn't matter to me, but as a general principle, I think it's wise to consider the cost and benefits of any battle one seeks to wage before engaging it.

As it stands, Pink_lotus, for whatever reason, feels she has been wronged and is seeking some sort of restitution or compensation. The other party has apparently resorted to all manner evil deeds in response. At this point, you have to ask what is the battle worth and what are the chances of ever getting what you want?

My guess is the chances are slim to none Pink_lotus will see a dime from her doctors and is she does, it will cost her a dollar or more to get it. I think she realizes this as well and is now looking to make them as miserable as she feels. Good luck. They are much better at this then she is so I any victory she has will be phyrric.

The problem I see with her strategy is that making them miserable will not make her feel any better (at least not for more than a minute or two). And the cost for this temporary victory could be quite high, if these people are as criminally connected as she asserts.

Her opponents are not going to wake up one day and realize the errors of their ways so, from where I sit, it looks like she could:

a) just walk away from them and "write it off" as a lesson learned, look for a compentent (and probably more expensive, but again, what's it worth to you?) doctor to try and repair the damage. Or just live with it and move on to better things.

-- or --

b) go down to their level and play their game by their rules. Hire your own muscle to push them around, etc.

But, in the end, you have to live with yourself and revenge will only warm your heart for a short time. If you have a child, think of what you are teaching them by your actions.

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BAQ says on Sep 14, 2005, 13:50:

Well, Humm Now NOT KNOWING ANYTHING about her specific situation, I can't comment HOWEVER I can make the following observations since I now live here in Colombia and had used the "Medical Services" here.

1. Medical care is cheaper in Colombia and there is a reason for that, unless there is VERY GROSS NEGLIGENCE, there is nothing you can do. I have found the doctors here good, but not excellent. Being treated for the flu, a broken arm, cuts and minor surgery is fine. Any MAJOR surgery, I would return to Dallas to have it done.

2. If someone owes you money, you CAN collect but it takes going through the Govt and they garnish a persons paycheck from the employer. If the person is SELF EMPLOYEED, 99.9% chance you are screwed and won;t see a dime.

3. Colombia views things different, the "Norm" seems to be unless it is a MAJOR DEAL, they think it is not worth the time or effort to screw with it.

This is what "I" have observed and I am speaking from my own personal thoughts and observations. That is all I can go by. I am sure others will have a different view or had experiences, and I would be interested to LEARN what others think and have experienced.

Semper Fidelis !

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 14, 2005, 14:01:

one big difference... between Colombia and the U.S. is in the sense of "responsibility."

In Colombia when someone falls and hurts themself, they say "Boy, that was stupid." In the U.S. they say "Someone [else] should have made the sidewalk safer so I couldn't have fallen. I'm going to sue!"

In the U.S. when someone spills hot coffee on themselves they sue the maker of the coffee for being negligent. In Colombia, they say, "That was stupid, why weren't you more careful."

In the U.S. when someone sticks their hand in a running lawnmower, they sue the lawnmower company because there was no sign saying "don't stick your hand in the lawnmower while it's running." In Colombia, they say "That was stupid, why in the world would you stick your hand in a running lawnmower."

The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. Just before stepping off the plane, remember to say the immortal words of Dorothy: "Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore!"

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ws244 says on Sep 14, 2005, 14:25:

well humm P/M'd you BAQ
ws

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pink_lotus says on Sep 14, 2005, 17:42:

Hello everyone! Thanks for the replies...very intteligent and thoughtful.
I agree with a lot of what you guys have said. I am at an internet cafe , so I don't have to much time - will post more tmmrw.

The sitaution in a nut shell...was that I wazs duped buy a bogus doctor who pretended to be a plastic surgeon. He wasn't one. What is deal was is that he would put his patients to sleep under general anesthsia , and then hire another docotor to do the surgery.

Well the real plastic surgeon didn't do the operation that I was going in for ( a very minor one) , but did something totally opposite. He cut my eyes open , and put huge 3 inch scars on each side of my FACE! Not only that the muscles under the eyes are truncated ( cut off) - so I no longer have funtion in those muscles.


The bogus ps later admitted to me tha the was not the one who operated me. He at least showed feelings of remorse ( the bogus one). The one who cut my face did not even care. He LAUGHED at me when I asked him why did he do this to me. Why did he do the wrong surgery!I told him I needed my face for my job ( I was a working actress down here), I asked him how many actors had there face like this. He smirked and said now I looked lie Mickey Rourke. I went home and looked at the picturres of mickey rourke , and I was shokced that he would compare me to this man ( who had his face disfigured by plastic surgery)..and he did so with a mirk on his face. Total BTK attitude. No human remorse or empathy.

Nobody wanted to tell me his name and when I did find out what his name was i called him to ask what could I do to repiar this. He was shocked that I found out his name, and instead of giving me solutions ...he threatened me.When they found out I was pressing charges that when all the threats and indimidations really began. Calls to my sons school, calls to the places I frequented , email intimidations, and even call to my 80 year old grandma in South Carolina ( I had put my grandmother as an emergency contact number on the medical forms).
Then they decided to forge my signature...including a 6 pages bougus clincal history...which has a;ready been proven.

Now I'd like to say I've been through tons of crimes here in Colombia. I've never bothered reporting them ( paseo millonario ect) nor did I really think twice about them. That's on thing that you have to face and live with here in Colombia. However the people who commit these crimes are people who are TRYING to feed thier families. The don't have an education.

These doctors do have education , and come from some form of privelage. There behavior , and indimitations are just down right disgusting. The real PS has previous charges of homocide ( he has had patients die on the operation table -after he preforated their viens.Bogus educational creditentials ( lies about postgrad degrees at NYU) and he lies about being a memeber of the American Society of PLastic surgeons...

Now I am not doing this just to make them miserable. What I do care is about what is right and what is wrong here, and the tremendous inhumane way I was treated. I will never be able to work again . .the list goes on and on.

Why should I just give it up , and leave it at that. Let them get away with it? I have to go through with this! Not only to make them pay for what they did to me , but to avoid other vicitms.

Even if I do not recieve a single dime - at least I tried. At least they will loose their medical licenses.

I have had tons of other offers to help me ( non legal routes) , but I just can't do it. It goes against who I am as a person...and I belive strongly in Karma. I will not got to hell , or commmit a sin for these loosers. They aren't worth it.

I do no think that they should ever go back to the United States again.

There is no need for these kind of people to be traveling to the country! Who knows what other documents they have forged to obtain thier visa??
There are so law abiding Colombians who do deserve to have a visa. These guys do not! If this is one thing that I can change, I will do my best to make it happen.

thanks for hearing me out....thanks for the input :)

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:33:

Tough road here..... Yoy want their VISAS revoked and this will be next to impossible UNLESS you can get them convicted in a Colombian court of law. I say this because you are accusing and they have not been convicted of anything in ANY court of law just yet so State has no grounds to revoke the visas?

Are you familiar with the case of Mexican singer Gloria Trevi? She either killed her own child in Brazil or was at least an accomplice in hiding the body of her 32 day old daughter while a fugitive from INTERPOL....she was never convicted of any crime so she was back in the US this year trying to reinvent her singing career....nobody bought her concert tickets so she basically has disappearred....THANK GOD!

The State Department could revoke the VISAS but only in rare cases could it be done. President Samper had his revoked over accusations (ONLY) of receiving narco$$$ in his campaign...so the precedent is there, but again, you are accusing only and where is the proof?

Show State some proof and maybe something could be done but heck anybody can accuse anybody and where is the judicial process....see my point?

I am NOT a lawyer but I think I am correct here in my analysis?

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:52:

another comment....... I have seen little Mexican stores here in Denver, Colorado that sell Pencillin ILLEGALLY! This can be bought over the counter in Mexico so they bring it here and do it illegally. My point is that although things may seem easier and cheaper medical wise in a place like Colombia we have controls and laws in the USA designed to help the patients and the system as a whole. If what you say Pink is true I hope they never enter US territory again either but getting medical services there without some legal protection is risky. I have thought of having LASIK there but decided against real quickly and my Colombian wife didn't think it very prudent either. I do believe, as I said, until you get a conviction in a Colombian court, State will not revoke the VISA. If State revoked the Visa just based on your word only then what kind of system of law would State follow? (I personally HATE the State Department for I think it is made up of a bunch of elitists and I can't apply for a job there either as a US citizen! Long story....
Have you talked to them? Can you even find a phone number as they hide in their building? FSOS practically work in a jail if you think about it but they get out at night.

Anyway, I hope you get justice IF what you say is true because they deserve their day in court too but do contact the powers that be about this......

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:54:

"other offers to help..." "non legal offers like what" Sicarios? Don't do that! You don't want to go there!

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 14, 2005, 18:57:

He lied on documents? If he lied on his VISA applications that might be grounds to revoke a VISA! You need to keep after the Consulate and contact your Granny's Congressman in SC!

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 14, 2005, 20:31:

Keep after them.... Pink_Lotus were they here in this forum as Tinto suggested? Just curious, how long have you lived in Colombia and what kind of acting have you done? Your story sounds like the kind that Spanish Television Univision and Telemundo in Miami might like to hear as well as NBC Dateline, and or 60 Minutes. You said somebody at the Embassy was going to help you and where did that go?

That freak Gloria Trevi I mentioned above really pissed me off. You see, my wife has Spanish television going night and day. I had heard of this singer over 15 years ago and I knew she was a fugitive from Mexican law and then she was caught in Brazil where she ws hiding withher lover promoter Sergio Andrade who was accused and CONVICTED in a Mexican court a few months ago. I have no doubt that Sergio Andrade will never enter the US again because he raped like nobody knows how many teenage girls. However, the Mexican system, rotten and corrupted basically let him off for time served and God only knows who he bribed to get out? Gloria was in jail in Brazil but upon extradition was let go and again who was paid off and how much?

When I heard that there was a dead child involved in Brazil under questionable circumstances I started a personal war in which I called Senators and Congressman and newspaper reporters where she was supposed to give concerts to "reinvent" her career (Like Michael Jackson will do?) The GRINGO press didn't know about her she only sings in Spanish and I was trying to inform them of her case! Maybe in Latin America you can leave a dead 32 day old girl and nobody cares but that is big time scandal here in the US! Pink, I was told by one Congressional aid that State could not deny Trevi the visa because she was not convicted as I mentioned and again Samper was a precedent where State had revocked a VISA only on accusations! Condeleeza Rice could revoke these doctors visas yesterday if she wanted but it is done without a legal conviction! I called State in Washington and left a message for someone supposedly in charge of the Consular (Visa section) and I asked why she was given
an arts visa to enter the US when there were so many outstanding questions about the death of her child, a 32 day old baby that Sergio fathered (among many others by how many wanna be teenage stars he promised careers?. Gloria seemed to never really care and would not answer questions about the baby girl. The tried to spin it if you will?

Pink, it can be almost impossible to get people in positions of power to pay attention but you must try. I called and left voice messages and emails and reporters and Congressman didn't sem to care either BUT I later heard she missed a concert in Texas because she was held up at the Mexican border by ICE over VISA questions. Did my call to State have anything to do with that? Probably not but State was not going to respond to my voicemail as a rule. As I said, her concert sales were flat and she has basically disappeared from Spanish television.
Did my efforts calling Las Vegas reporters and the mayors of Dallas et al help put pressure on them to drop her? Maybe and maybe not but if you drop this like someone mentioned above then these bums will do it again and that is what they expect being Latin and being in Colombia where people called government don't care. That is why so many want to run to the US although they think it is just for a job. Our system generally works and theirs stinks!

1. Contact the Embassy again and even Email the Ambassador and contact the consular section at State in Washington. Contact your local Congressman and Senator in the States although I am not sure what state you hail from?

2. Get a lawyer in Colombia and the US and look for one in either immigration or international afffairs in the US.

3. Contact the Miami Herald, NBC Dateline, the Bogota papers if you think it will help put pressue on the Colombian and US authorities to do something if they are not doing anything already. Univision and Telemundo as well. If you have scars show the reporters! Ver es creer!

If these guys are the frauds as you say then they may have lied on their VISA applications. I believe this alone would be enough for revocation but you have to prove it and State has to investigate. This is where your lawyer comes in and the press if later need be?

Finally, be careful because these guys could be capable of anything if you have been threatened. Do you have good personal security?



Don't do anything dumb as I mentioned above!

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 15, 2005, 08:57:

a tricky business especially since the Colombians have all kinds of personal information about you. If it was a simple situation like "I got screwed by Walmart" you could create an anonymous website detailing your story. Would it change much? Who knows...but these websites eventually get picked up by the search engines, especially if they are non-commercial and reference Colombia, plastic surgery, the doctors, the clinic, etc, etc.



Your case is definitely not the first. Sometimes people laugh at the U.S. State Dept Warnings about Colombia but I recall reading one of the warnings or advisories that stated four (I think) U.S. citizens have died during plastic surgery in Colombia. Yes, people die and get maimed here, too, but there is a lot more recourse in the land of laws and lawyers.

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stripes says on Sep 22, 2005, 21:10:

If you can get a conviction If you are willing to go the hard trip through the courts and can get a criminal conviction...

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html

Go down to item 2. I don't know if it would qualify, but there is an ineligibility for crimes involving moral turpitude. If that was the case, they would be ineligible for a visa. I guess you'd probably have to notify the embassy that they were convicted, too. But, it's a permanent thing, so they couldn't get a visa again ever.

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perverso says on Oct 22, 2005, 15:10:

go to the right place http://www.cirugiaplastica.org.co/ this is the web site for the colombian plastic surgeons , you could contact someone in there and even get their medical license revoked which for that kind of "doctors" will be a good punishment.
I have many doctors in my family and I can only say they are very ethic and good, also have plastic surgeons within them and a friend's brother even came up with new techniques that are now use world wide.

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