My Observations on the Level of English in Colombia Schools

vicshere says on Sep 25, 2007, 10:50:

billy I would agree with your observations.... by the way excellent command of English...I take it your mother tongue is Spanish?

listo

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Bill Turley says on Sep 25, 2007, 11:00:

No my mother tongue, and my wife says only tongue is English

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 25, 2007, 11:34:

Bill, I have never met a gringo living in Colombia who didn't have an accent in Spanish and some of them a rather heavy one despite all the years they have lived there. Also, I have never met a Colombian in USA or Europe who didn't have a trace of accent in his/her English. Thinking about it, this seems to apply to Spaniards too. Lifetime seems to be too short to get rid of the accent, unless you acquired your second language very young. I have this theory about English and Spanish being phonetically so different that it's virtually impossible for a Spanish-speaker to speak perfect English and vice versa, except when the language has been learned before, say 10 years of age.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 25, 2007, 11:41:

Re accents, unless someone works really hard at it, e.g. actors and singers, I think for most people it's going to be there for life. Think about Henry Kissinger or Arnold Schwarzenegger as examples. And I know someone from Eastern Germany that came here just before the Berlin Wall went up. Same thing... they're all educated, well-traveled people and they sound like they just got off the boat.

Nothing wrong with that. It's good that we don't all sound alike.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 25, 2007, 11:53:

Oh, I have an accent on each and every one of my four languages, including my native Finnish. ;) but heavens, I hope not like "just off the boat".

I've heard somebody say that if you have an accent it only means that you speak at least two languages. That was in the States. People in Sweden are not quite that cosmopolitan. They think its annoying if you have an accent and they need to make a special effort when listening to you. Sometimes they just can't be bothered at all.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Qubo says on Sep 25, 2007, 13:22:

Desideria,

I heard that immigrants have a hard time to assimilate no matter how long they've lived in Sweden if they have an accent. Well, it's like that here in the USA too. If you sound different rather foreign people will always know. I think having an accent is nice depending on the person. My wife and I were at a restaurant this weekend and the waiter spoke english fine but due to his accent it was really hard to understand, then on top of that he was very flamboyant and spiced up his speech. I got tired and spoke to him in spanish because it was torture..then he was adding so much english to his spanish add made it worse. It was so funny but hey at least he can talk. I think people that make fun of people just for there accent shouldn't be worth talking to anyway.

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CristalM says on Sep 25, 2007, 14:35:

The accent thing.......am totally gringa but learned spanish at age 16 in Medellin for a year. Been back in Bogota for 2 months and got mistaken for French! But my spanish teacher says I sound like I am from medellin.....and it's been 25 years since I spoke spanish for any length of time. Personally, I think getting rid of an accent is easier for some than others, some just don't hear themselves. After speaking spanish for awhile I end up with this singsong accent when i go back to my very native English. Then, listen to my accent after i get off the phone with my mother....pure New York! I think it just takes practice and attention.

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jaramillo says on Sep 25, 2007, 16:30:

I'm with Desi on this one. Never met a Colombian that got here after 15 who doesn't have an accent. Not one. Now, regarding "will power", I don't think so. Penelope Cruz and Antonio banderas are examples of thoroughly dedicated professionals, with a financial stake, and the best phonetic coaching available. The results speak for themselves. Same goes for late coming gringos to Colombia. Have seen some who had a thorough grasp of culture, grammar, and syntax. But they only had to say two words for me to realize they were gringos. How we perceive accents is also time-dependent. My southern gringa wife says she can't hear mine! LOL.

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Leeroy says on Sep 25, 2007, 18:18:

People emmigrate to Scandinavia?

Really?

No shit. I mean, wow....

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:11:

I will believe that, Rubito when I meet them and hear them talk. Anyway, my statement was only about English/Spanish. I know several Swedes who have lived in London for many years and sound 99% Londoner, but that's beside the point. (And yet, even if their languages are related they still retain a trace of an accent).

Yes, it's individual, of course. Some people pick up the right intonation in a short time and start sounding like natives, even if their vowels are not quite working. You should not believe what people tell you, most of time :) (I've been told that I sound like an Argentinian or Spaniard....yeah, right! Just because I speak Spanish with a relative fluency and don't look Latin).

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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christobeldawg says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:23:

yet to run into anyone speaking in a different language than what they grew up with who did not always have an accent, if they learned the second language after 18-20 years old.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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campbell says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:30:

speaking of accents.... It depends on where you learn the second language. I lived in mississippi and it is very funny when someone that does not speak english learns it in mississippi. They pick up a heavy redneck accent. I think that you emulate the accent you are surrounded by.

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Robert Jorge says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:41:

I agree campbell. That is hilarious. My opinion, the funniest thing is to see a tiny Asian lady; expecting to hear her speak with an Asian accent, and then hear: "Yall gotn any new candall smells upen hea? (panhandle FL, borders LA - lower Alabama)

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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campbell says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:51:

yeah rj, the girl i am talking about is asian and she sounds like she just fell of the turnip truck

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campbell says on Sep 25, 2007, 21:51:

whars da gooddam beer ya in dis peece huh

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jaramillo says on Sep 26, 2007, 07:51:

Of course Rubito. For many South Africans English is their mother language (it might be for Theron, or she might have grown around English speakers). So Kennett Branagh can sound like a New York cop, and Tom Cruise can pretend he is Irish. But Ricardo Montalban cannot sound, no matter how hard he tries, like King Lear.

I know kids in Medellín who have developed a near perfect accent in English because they started in the Colombus School, with American teachers, when they were five. But my point, and I believe Desi's, is that someone who learned a language in their late teens (or later) will never, ever, get rid off their accent. Especially when, linguisticaly, the gulf is so huge as it is between English and Spanish.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 26, 2007, 08:36:

What's so hard about a person from Toronto sounding like an American? All they have to do is learn how to pronounce ABOUT, PROCESS and ALUMINUM.

;-)

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jaramillo says on Sep 26, 2007, 09:19:

Rubito, people in Sweden speak English from a very early age. When I visited Stockholm I was blown away by the fact that nearly everyone spoke English. My cab driver told me that as a child he would watch american shows in english (he mentioned the flintstones) all the time. Ask any of your perfect-english friends WHEN they learned English. When they came to the U.S is irrelevant.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 26, 2007, 09:35:

I've probably mentioned this before, but if people are going to watch English-language television programs and movies in a Spanish-speaking country, they probably would learn more English and enjoy the programs more if they were not dubbed.

I know zilch about the media production business but it *seems* like hiring people to type the subtitles would also be less expensive than hiring voice actors. And you could probably outsource the work to India.

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jaramillo says on Sep 26, 2007, 09:51:

It's a good thought, Tinto. The problem is that a large fraction of the populace is functionally illiterate.

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bufalo says on Sep 26, 2007, 11:19:

Sorry, couldn't read all the responses, but my 2 cents on accents...

Years ago when I only went to Santa Marta I was also an actor. SM was basically my only spanish experience speaking-wise in a foreign country. I nailed the movements, phrases, etc. Being super white, blond haired, blue-eyed might've counted against me, but didn't. I fooled lots of people into thinking I was from there. Every now and then people would even ask me where I took my english courses (I rarely spoke it, but when I did eyes would open). I made up a story that I was born in nearby Cienega. Noone really went there, so they wouldn't ask too many questions. My current wife, who I met in SM didn't know I was a gringo for the firts day or so.

So it can be done, but like Tinto said, lot's of work. I studied a lot and worked at it. Now, I don't have the time and my accent is gringo once again, plus I've been to several other parts and it's mixed in. The other thing is that here in Armenia, the accent, gestures are not as strong as on the coast.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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jaramillo says on Sep 27, 2007, 05:21:

Rubito, that's funny. Keep your Dominican accent for use in the Caribbean! It would be kind of cool to have not just several languages, but also the variety of accents each laguage has.

It is funny how some spanish speaking people can live for a long time in a different spanish speaking region without a change in their accent. A Colombian that moves to Spain and still sounds like a paisa 15 years later. And then you can also find the opposite. I have a cousin that after 2 years in Pamplona came back sounding like a Spaniard.

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bufalo says on Sep 27, 2007, 11:59:

My accent changed a lot, coastal colombia to Uruguay/argentino to colombian to barcelonian and now its pretty freaking gringo because my mouth doesn't know what the hell is going on.

But my wife still says its not that bad, I'm my own worst critic.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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