my long lost love in Medellin Help!

FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 05:23:

Are "they" in love with him? "is it against their tradition for males in Colombia to be swept of their feet by a Gringa? Or would they be considered a Pansy?"

Who cares what "they" think! These "other" people are not in a relationship with him, you are....

FG

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Terry D. Crowson says on May 28, 2004, 06:41:

Please write Latingirl, Please write me at TDCrowson at yahoo.com I have an honest story that I would like to share with you.
Thanks, Terry

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SlmieBall says on May 28, 2004, 09:46:

Follow Your Heart and Soul And things will work out. I do not know how, but things always work out in the end for Me. Maybe this will help you, too.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 10:31:

latin lovers latingirl, don't think you're the only one who's got her heart set on a latin man. There's many of us who have made a succesfull cross-cultural mariage with a Latino, in my case, with a Caleño. There's no big hype about Colombian girls wanting to marry gringos; most of the Colombian women I know (and I know a great many) would probably prefer to marry a Colombiano and not have to leave their country to be happy. I know this is a controversy, since many of these people who go on wife-purchasing trips to Colombia are also very active and vocal on these boards, constantly seeking advice on security, good hotels etc. but believe me the gringos who have met a Colombiana in a "normal" way (as compared with agencies) do overrepresent the group of surviving attachments.
There's no stigma in Colombia about a man marrying a foreigner. I was received with open arms in the family and a few other American/European women married to Colombians and living there report the same. The problem arises when if you plan to snatch him away to a far country where his mommie can't be visiting you often enough...like every other day:)
cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 11:29:

Would you percieve things differently if.....? DD,

"I know this is a controversy, since many of these people who go on wife-purchasing trips to Colombia are also very active and vocal on these boards, constantly seeking advice on security, good hotels etc. but believe me the gringos who have met a Colombiana in a "normal" way (as compared with agencies) do overrepresent the group of surviving attachments."

I can fully understand your sentiment here, and I am finding that it is extremely difficult in explaining to my freinds and family how I met a girl from Colombia. That, yes, I did reply to an advertisment posted on a website. And yes, we have had to build a large portion of our relationship via letter writting, phone calls, and short visits in person.

... It has been difficult to dispell the perception that a "real" or "normal" (as you put it) relationship is not born from anything other than an in-person introduction or meeting. It has been very difficult, to say the least.

So, perhaps you can explain in more detail about your feelings or thoughts about a couple of things....

1. eHarmony.com, Match.com, and many other personals or meeting places websites are worthless? These kinds of "services" do not produce happy, fulfilling, lasting, and loving relationships between the men and women who use them? If not ever, then how do you know?

2. Do you believe that these "wife-purchasing" types of websites (that contain pictures and commentary of women who are on these sites) contain nothing but lonely men, who are NOT merely meeting women, but rather, are "picking" and "choosing" wives?

3. What are your thoughts about the Internet in general? Specifically, what is it about the web that makes you think that it is anything BUT a social setting? What about this website -- isn't this place a social setting? (regardless of whether or not people are getting married through this site).

4. Are you hinting that NO ONE has ever made a long-distance relationship work?

5. Are you telling me that by using an "agency" to MEET someone, then I am doomed to failure in this relationship? What is the difference from these "agencies" and other websites such as eHarmony.com?

6. What if a Colombian-American man had used one of these agencies to meet a Colombiana, built a loving relationship, got married, etc... would you percieve things differently?

7. What exactly is a "normal" way to meet someone? Is there such a thing? If so, why do you exclude the Internet as a legitimate form of communication?

I have many more questions, but I will leave it at this for now. I hope you do reply and discuss this further, because it is very important to me (as I mentioned earlier) that I present and explain my relationship with my girlfriend to my loved ones in a positive manner. But of course, if I just say that we met on the Internet -- you will get the rolling of eyes, the snearing, ect...

What I mean here is that, unless there is some frame of reference, some context of some very basic principles/ideas, then comments such as yours will continue to offend well meaning men and women who have been lucky enough to meet and build loving relationships with Colombianas. And I personally would never have had the opportunity to meet and build a loving, lasting, and incredibly meaningful relationship with Mi Amor without one of these websites.

FG

p.s. Just so you know, I have never been on one of these "wife-purchasing" trips that you mention. Of course I do know about them, but I felt that this was an inappropirate way for me to meet and start a relationship with a woman. My personal experience was that I merely utilized a website to communicate with people -- and yes, it has resulted in a wonderful love.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 11:49:

FredGarvin Let me think about what you wrote and I'll get back to the subject. I felt that I had a biased view about so called "marriage agencies" and I registered in one of the boards, needless to mention the name here, for my own sake, to find out more about the subject. Unfortunately, so far, what i've been able to perceive from the threads I've been reading many of these men who write there seem to be not the kind I'd introduce my friends to.
I'll get back to the subject in a while.
One more thing: no, I don't consider websites for making friends anything strange. I've made lots of wonderful friends on the internet and if I was out there finding a new partner, I'd definitely be in contact with dozens of interesting men all over the world. However, I feel that for building a lasting relationship the advantages of "being there" far outnumber the internet communications.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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seattlejames says on May 28, 2004, 11:54:

Senor Garvin Damn you write good.......I would also like to know why people are so negative about a good quality relationship that was developed by 'a new means'. For me, there was something very special about not being in the phyical presence of a woman I learned to love. Here in USA, I generally had sex with a woman rather quickly not really knowing certain things I wish I did know. After communicating by a relatively new method, e-mail, I had the most fabulous vacation ever and I truly belive I have meet somebody I wish to spend the rest of my years with. God bless the internet...chao

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FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 12:29:

Because... "I would also like to know why people are so negative about a good quality relationship that was developed by 'a new means'."

Many reasons, but most simply base their perceptions on bad experiences or all of the negative things that DO occur online. Why do you think that there is so much spam?

...It's because people/businesses *think* that the Internet is an incredibly cheap form of television. Totally ignoring the fact that the REASON why advertising works via the television, is because of the SHOWS that people watch. Instead of having their own television show that attracts people, they blast their advertisments at anyone.

Most of the time, they actually just repel people...

Bottom line: The internet is a communication tool. I would argue that it's probably the BEST and most effective (if used correctly). But because of people's perceptions, and not understanding this very fundamental concept, it breeds discontent.

FG

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 12:55:

worthless? 1-No, I don't think websites for personal contacts per se are worthless. They do have a social function and I know that many people have found a partner through these places. I don't have the facts, and I suspect that any reliable statistics about the success of these relationships are available. If there are, please give me a link. I know of some matches that have survived the 5-year limit, and of some others that have not lasted a month. I'm just voicing my own opinion here, and some things I've heard and read. I don't pretend to know the whole picture, but I would like to know more.
2- the web sites that offer catalogues of scantily dressed "models" are probably visited by lonely men, I'm pretty much sure about that. I've taken a look, and there's nothing there that I find substancial to "building a lasting relationship based on love, understanding and fidelity". There's rather a kind of sorry bunch of surgically reconstructed young women with too much make-up on. Now, if that's what some men are looking for, that's their choice.
3- I think forums and boards like this, ColombiaExperts and some others are truly wonderful. I love talking about Colombia and where I live I can't do that without boring people to death in about five minutes. Both the people who just want some advice on security issues or names of hotels and restaurants, the cost of education in Colombia etc etc. and the ones like me who like to talk about broader topics can find something interesting and helpful here. I don't know why people find it offending to talk about marriage agencies. It's just a topic, isn't it? I don't think there's anything insulting or strange to bring it up here. I personally don't think that's the best way meeting a person of opposite sex (are there agencies for women too?)
4- Absolutely not! I didn't say it either. I know personally some people who have made a long-distance relationship work. It's much harder, though, since before you meet the other person in reality you don't really know if there's that famous "chemistry" that makes things work. After meeting the other person and if everything meets your expectations, it's just a matter of constancy and commitment.
5- I'm afraid I'm not an expert on this. From the other board I've gathered some information about the agencies, and there seems to be consensus about that many girls affiliated to these agencies have a little moonlighting job as well. Some of them must have been dating hundreds of gringos over a couple of years. Some guys complain about getting married "too fast" instead of shopping around longer. It's rather tedious reading, really.
6- This far, I know only of a handful who have met a girl at one of the introduction agencies who, after a couple of years, are still married to the same girl. I am sure if I met a couple that met each others at one of these places and after five years or so, have managed to build a lasting marriage based on mutual love, affection and solidarity I would reconsider my negative feelings about them.
7. For me, a "normal" way of meeting a partner is by mutual friends, at work, at the university etc...any everyday activity that brings people together. Now, I'd have to add chatting and internet friends' clubs to the list.

I've tried to answer your questions the best I can. As I said before, I might be wrong about many things, but I don't mean to offend anybody by my opinions.

Cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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seattlejames says on May 28, 2004, 13:14:

My History 1966, My father is a Japanesse American and my mother all American. Both attending Purdue University in Indiana. My father meets my mother and loves her from frist sight. My mom is also interested. Moms family go 'crazy' when she informs them she wishes to know a Japanesse American. Mom's dad is like no fucking way a Jap. Mom's mom says the same. Dad still wants mom and mom wants to know dad. How do they commucicate, BY PHONE each night. Knowing that my mothers parents will go balistic and possible harm my father, they run away to Seattle to start a life after dad receives PHD. They were married for 37 years until my father passed away. My mom still cannot go a day without crying....Phone = Internet = Whatever....Some people still have hope regardless of what statistics say.....chao

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FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 14:17:

It's ok to offend... DD,

It's ok to offend --- this is a great topic and I value your input. Don't be sorry either, just be ready to back up your opinions in the best way you possibly can (which I think you have)....

I would like to comment again, really this is my only platform to discuss this topic at the moment and again, it's important to me.

There are TON of reasons why a relationship may not last for more than a given time period -- so many that I really think it's just kinda dumb to think the main problem lies in meeting via an Internet matching service. By saying so, we are just ignoring the fact that relationships/love are incredibly dynamic and are based upon mutual respect, trust, and willingness to grow together -- no matter what may happen. But it's not an "Internet" problem,

....It's a PEOPLE problem.

You can base your opinion on previews of a single website, and that is ok -- I understand that you are not here to spend your time researching every agency/website.

"the web sites that offer catalogues of scantily dressed "models" are probably visited by lonely men, I'm pretty much sure about that."

And what are these women like? What do they do for a living? Are they attending University? What do they look for in a man? What went wrong in their last relationship? What are their political views? What do thier families think of them wanting to MEET a man from outside of Colombia?

Not really for you to answer directly, just a point to make -- you are only seeing a picture, you are not conversing, you have no idea and no base to make ANY assumption about these women! My thinking here is that you see these pictures and think to yourself that they are doing this to attract a gingo. But, my question is,

...How is this different from any other offline setting? Have you seen how scantily women dress when they go out for a night on the town? Why are they doing this? Surely they are not doing it to NOT get the attention of men, right? ;-)

(Ok -- some are some aren't...)

....But perhaps women LIKE to feel sexy by dressing this way?

Also,

Have you been out to purchase women's clothes recently? Holy cow... I was with my younger sister (18yrs old) the other day at the mall. I don't think they even sell clothes anymore that doesn't show the middrift or skirts below the knees!!!!!!! lol...

It's a societal thing -- women dress "scantily" everday. It's nothing new and it surely isn't limited to some dating service website.

"There's rather a kind of sorry bunch of surgically reconstructed young women with too much make-up on. "

Again -- And what are these women like? What do they do for a living? Are they attending University? What do they look for in a man? What went wrong in their last relationship? What are their political views? What do thier families think of them wanting to MEET a man from outside of Colombia?

And you don't women like this on the street everyday????????? Hmmmm. Again -- it's not limited to some website, it's how people are. But for you to say that plastic surgery = bad person..... well, it's a bad way to generalize women in my opinion.

"I don't know why people find it offending to talk about marriage agencies. "

I don't find it offensive. I find it offensive that you view match websites simply as a way to pick/order a bride. I think you are missing the fact that there are many people who are solely intent on meeting someone -- it's just on a global scale!

"I personally don't think that's the best way meeting a person of opposite sex (are there agencies for women too?)"

Not real sure what you are looking at, but meeting others takes two people for it to happen. We are not talking about Men or Women bathrooms here, we are talking about websites that are social settings -- places that people can meet, interact, and perhaps find love. It's not a "man only" website, or a "women only" website -- it's actually a community of people!

"Absolutely not! I didn't say it either. I know personally some people who have made a long-distance relationship work."

Yep, me too! And I thank God for it because without letter writting, I probably would not be here. Just like thousands of other men, my grandfather faught in WWII, and was able to build his relationship with my grandmother. They did this under incredibly AWEFUL circumstances, at HUGE distances, and for a very long period of time. But they did not let the distance between them stop them.

"Some of them must have been dating hundreds of gringos over a couple of years. Some guys complain about getting married "too fast" instead of shopping around longer. It's rather tedious reading, really."

I also say "some" alot too. But I do not let what "some" people do form my opinions. But I also understand you are looking/reviewing a limited number of examples, so no harm done!

"This far, I know only of a handful who have met a girl at one of the introduction agencies who, after a couple of years, are still married to the same girl. I am sure if I met a couple that met each others at one of these places and after five years or so, have managed to build a lasting marriage based on mutual love, affection and solidarity I would reconsider my negative feelings about them. "

Don't forget to include the fact that MEETING someone is just the beginning. There is a ton of work that goes into developing lasting/loving relationships, life and love take work -- and there is is simply no way to shortcut this work. BUT failure is not merely because of the WAY people meet.

"For me, a "normal" way of meeting a partner is by mutual friends, at work, at the university etc...any everyday activity that brings people together. Now, I'd have to add chatting and internet friends' clubs to the list."

Just the point I had intended to get across. The Internet is just a different "place", I like to think of websites like poorbuthappy.com as Internet Communities of PEOPLE. And no matter that it isn't physical, we are still communicating.

FG

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 14:21:

your story Seattle, that's how our parents met. At the university, at the job...how did they keep contact when they couldn't be together? By phone, writing letters....not at an agency or going through pages and pages of "candidates" in a catalogue....or purchasing telephone numbers from an intermediary. That was love and romance in the old fashioned way.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 15:08:

a different world Yes, I do agree with you FredGarvin on a lot of things, if not all. Relationships are complicated, no matter how the initial contact was made. I am great believer in friendship, and affinity. Sometimes I feel the world I live in is very much different from the world most people on these boards live. I think it is great not to have to focus on your looks all the time. Yes, we watch out for our figures also, go to the gym, are physically active all the time, eat healthy, exercise at home and with friends too. A nose job or a tummy tuck is ok, thus "plastic surgery is not just bad", but removing ribs, getting silicone breast or lip implants when you're not even out of puberty...that's where I draw a line. Not healthy, not good.
Have I purchased clothes in the recent past? Yes, of course I have! Due to the climate here we wear bare-midrift thingies and short skirts only during the reckless summer months up here in the north:) I have the disadvantage of living in a country with a fairly homogenous population: thus the descendants of the vikings are all fairly the same physically; tall, blond, narrow in the hip and waist with small noses and blue or green eyes, freckles and no tendency of putting on weight. This is a factor tht makes people not to pay all that much attention on how they look: they know they look fine and can afford to dress casually most of the time. We think it's the personality that matters....
Getting back on the subject...though I think we've gotten pretty far away from the original subject by now,I do believe long distance relationships are possible, but not easy. I'm a true believer in being there, looking in the eyes of the person I'm talking to, reading the body language.
About being *offensive*: I believe that most matters can be discussed without being offensive. Being offensive creates a bad environment for furthering a meaningful dialogue and should be avoided. It's ok to feel passionate about things, but keeping the focus and perspective is equally important.
Cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 28, 2004, 16:06:

your two cents is always a start of an investment. Let's see: is there a way of making money on this: I'm sure there is, but I just haven't figured it out yet. Desideria's Introduction Service. No fee, satisfaction guaranteed. This is not an agency, but a community service. Come all ye lonesome gringos...

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 16:14:

And I agree with much of what you say too! There is no doubt that there are men searching "agency" websites, solely to find a bride. As well as women hoping to find a gringo to sweep them away and expect a fairy-tale ending. And THIS is where we totally agree -- it's a poor approach to finding a loving partner.

...Not to mention the fact that the biggest motivator in all of this is the potential for profits by the website owners (trip packages, membership fees, translation services, package delivery, etc...).

But it is VERY important to me personally to express that these things mentioned above are not the only things happening. I simply choose to use the Internet as a communication tool -- and it has provided me the opportunity to meet MANY more people than I would ever have been able to do here in this town. (BTW, I live in Florida, so I can understand your comments about weather/clothes!)

So -- I hope you do not think that I am not in tune with what you have proposed/said. I am. But, it is this same kind of discussion I have with others that know me (offline), and it's in the process of talking about these issues which helps me to understand positions such as yours, as well as my own.

Nope, not for one second has this discussion NOT been incredibly valuable to me. Hashing out these opinions/thoughts really do provide a ton of help to me, and hopefully others who are reading along.

FG

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FredGarvin says on May 28, 2004, 16:19:

"Desideria's Introduction Service. No fee, satisfaction guaranteed. This is not an agency, but a community service. "

rolol....

Probably not a bad idea -- there is a great deal of value in providing a match service minus the many sentiments/things you say and have seen at other sites.

...Believe it or not, there are some very nice men/women who are real, and serious about finding loving partnerships. You know, the kind of person that doesn't necessarily need to first see a girl in a bikini to decide to marry her ;-) hehehehhehee...

FG

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 29, 2004, 09:34:

gringopingo Since you're obviously a man of the world and know your way around women, what do you think of Oriental women, like Philippines, Malaysians? Or Eastern European, like Russian and Rumanian women? Or Scandinavian women? Are we all (the rest of us) antichrist too?
Cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on May 29, 2004, 12:52:

curious Now I got really curious....what are these "desirable attributes" in a woman?
Cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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lvzervos says on May 31, 2004, 00:59:

Can I relate? Well, well Latingirl...
Sounds like this boy has stolen your heart.

I would love to share my story to you, so drop me a line at lalainez at yahoo.com

Regards.

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rel43 says on May 31, 2004, 21:01:

Hey FG!

"Me thinks he doth protest too much."

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observer says on Jun 2, 2004, 07:13:

If you met true Colombian Let me tell you sweet heart, If your piasa won't chet on you, than you more than likely have found a catch of a life time. The only problem I see with Colombian men is the Machismo/colombian style, they cheat on their women way to often. Good luck, if both of you have romance in your hearts still-------why not.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 2, 2004, 11:09:

excess baggage-free? "kind, sweet, personable, passionate, extraordinarily sexy, largely attitude free, largely unpretentious, largely excess baggage free, retain femininity DESPITE professional accomplishment" ... you meant those things? Those are not unique Colombian female attributes, and many not exclusively female attributes at all...and "excess baggage free" not true...I've never seen as much excess baggage in my life than Colombianitas taking home from a shopping spree in Miami....queuing at the Avianca counter:) That's what I call serious excess baggage cases.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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cintiamay says on Jun 2, 2004, 12:16:

Walks & Talks like a Woman very interesting... too bad you paint all gringas w/ one big ugly brush. Did you have a bad instance with a gringa while growing up? I mean you sound very hateful about them. The few Colombianitas I have met (note few) I admit are very beautiful, however, I also found them whiny, clingy and immature. Very annoying, and these girls did not grow up in the states btw. Rather than deciding that this is representative of all Colombian women, I decided it only tells me the type and character of their Colombian boyfriends, who I know cheat on them (and vice versa). They must like this type of "feminine" girl, and these girls just happen to be Colombian. I would never make a decision about an entire country's gender based on these few ladies I've met.
Considering I am a gringa, perhaps I'm biased, but I know plenty of american born gals who embody "intelligent, kind, sweet, personable, passionate, extraordinarily sexy, attitude free, unpretentious", et. al. But they are also independent people with minds of their own. If you view independence as manly, well that's a very sad point of view. Maybe the idea of foreign women being more "feminine" by gringos has to do with their own uncertain place in American society and nothing to do with the women.
Either way, the opinion is yours, so stick with it if you must.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 2, 2004, 14:55:

Well, Cintiamay, you are right about the problems with making these generalizations. There may be a grain of truth to them but there are so many exceptions, how useful are they? I would not make any judgements about any individual based on generalizations about their national origin, sex, race or religion. You might be right but you might be wrong.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ntmi says on Jun 3, 2004, 09:03:

colombian man of mine I just made a post about falling for a colombiano. they can be amazing. he is so sweet and funny and there is something great about all his colombian friends just loving you. i never thought as a gringa his friends would be so endering to me. They all wanted us to be together. its so great when you can teach each other new words or share music and movies and art that you may not have known about. from what ive known they are extremely sexy and mine is a very attentive lover. there are somethings that do bug me, hes always "broke," wont get a job and still loves off his mom, he has cheated (but i would not blame this on something cultural), and he is a bit too jealous in my opinion but never in a way that would hurt me, just it frustrates me. i dont think there is anything better than a colombian man!

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 3, 2004, 10:23:

Wow, he's a great guy but he has no money, no job, cheats on you and lives with his mother. Then we wonder why so many Colombian women choose American men. Usually we have money, a job, are faithful and do not live with our mothers but hey, each to his own.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2004, 10:53:

but then again... but...he was so sweet and cute and a great lover...and certainly life at his side would not have a boring moment (except maybe when the bills were due...) Seriously talking, I think Colombian men have their merits. I wouldn't have fallen for one if they didn't....communication skills is one of them, definitely. I kind of suspect that this "cheating thing" (I've been spared:) is due to the immediacy of the Latin character. It's almost impossible for them to wait for something or somebody. When left alone they just slip.....and fast.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ShazCas says on Jun 3, 2004, 11:18:

Gringas Cintiamay, I'm so glad you've written, as hardly any women from the US write on this website, and I'm afraid they get rather a hard time! I asked why so many of the men on this site are so critical of women from the US, and I didn't much like the replies. I usually don't comment on all the "North American women are so unfeminine and materialistic, Colombian women are so feminine and beautiful, blah, blah, blah..." (by the way gringopingo, I'm not saying these are all comments you have made, they're just from posts I've read over a long time). I agree that many young women in Colombia are whiny and immature. And I was a teacher who saw a hell of a lot of them every day!! But then I'm not going to tar everyone with the same brush, like so many men on this website do, I know a lot of lovely women there. As Desideria would say, people are people everywhere. But it is no surprise that men get accused of only being interested in women's looks, because here in the forum it's often "Colombian women are so beautiful, so feminine, blah, blah". And yes, there are a lot of beautiful women, but it's only the package we come in, and our packaging gets old and ugly over time. So really it's not that important, and to think it is, is shallow. A question I would really like to ask the guys is: what does being "feminine" mean to them? Is it that a woman looks very girly and so on, or is it that she has those traditionally "feminine" personality traits, such as keeping her mouth shut and cleaning the house? I'd genuinely love to know, as it's a word that crops up over and over here. Looking forward to any comments!

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ShazCas says on Jun 3, 2004, 11:34:

Colombian men It's true that a lot of Colombian men are unfaithful. The interesting thing about young Colombian men is that a lot of them have grown up with no dad or a dad that lives in the house but has several "mozas" (lovers) and as a result a lot have said to me that they want to be different and have a long, happy relationship with one woman when they are older. I know of men who are now being unfaithful to their third wife, and who have several sets of kids, such as three kids with each wife. Some live with one wife, and let her cook and clean for them, but then have several different lovers who they even take to Florida and things, even though their wife's never been anywhere. There are men who beat their wives, men who don't let their wives go out without their knowledge, men who don't let their wives work, even though there isn't much food on the table. But it seems that their sons are sick of their fathers' philandering ways, have grown up in a more modern Colombia, are sensitive and educated, and want to be different. My husband's dad told him not to marry me, as there were far too many gorgeous girls in the world! But my husband doesn't respect his dad or his advice, because he saw how his mum was treated. There are a lot of lovely guys in Colombia, and if you meet someone educated, from the city, you'll find they are generally less likely to be "machista". My Colombian male friends see women as equals and are not machista at all. I do know young men who are unfaithful too, but I guess they are young and are unfaithful for the same reasons a 20 year old is unfaithful anywhere. Why would you be faithful at that age?! My husband is incredibly faithful, he's much more romantic than many men in my culture, very sensitive, a great dancer, gives me flowers for no reason, and is not afraid to show his feelings. Many non-Colombian women I know in Colombia would say that the Colombian men they've met are much better in bed than men in their cultures because they are more sensitive, giving, romantic and passionate, and that they are not so obssessed with beer! It's nice to talk about men for a change here, and not women!!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 3, 2004, 11:50:

yes That's my experience also. None of the men in my husband's family have been cheaters, either. My father-in-law set a fine example of fidelity, responsability and respect in his family, and none of the sons have been unfaithful, wife-beaters or bad providers. All the wives have also worked. Not a very romantic family, I have to admit, but very stable, very down-to-earth, very dependable. I think Colombian men have received a lot of bad rap here, and in many other boards also. Yes, they are very attentive towards women, great flirts, and tell tall tales, most of it is just joking. They're wonderful as friends, supportive and sensitive; can be very good and loyal husbands and never boring in the least bit:)

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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lozza says on Jun 3, 2004, 13:00:

My friend told me her mother is one of 52 - her father had 52 children with various women. 52!! That to me is pretty staggering (he was obviously a busy man!!).
But i definately think that in general Colombian men are more unfaithful than gringo men (in general). But i think that this assumption that 'gringo men are faithful' is pretty rubbish too. The culture here in Colombia is more machista, but the reason there are so many stories of the men being unfaithful is because it is less hidden and more accepted. The men brag about how many lovers they have (apart from their wife) and many of the lovers/wives know about it and accept it - sometimes taking in the children of the other lovers. This is something that the gringo culture does not accept so easily - but it does not mean the men are cheating less - it just means they are more secretive about it or that they are just quick flings or one-night stands, but do not assume that just because he is a gringo he will be more faithful.
The students in the school i work are often talking about who's dad they saw with their 'amante' at the weekend. And when they ask me how many 'other' girlfriends i have, and i say no, i just have the one, i get some pretty disbelieving looks - 'eres marica o que?' is often the response to the fact that i only have (or will only admit to having) one girlfriend.
Anyway, the point is, yes you have a good chance of finding out that your Colombian man is cheating on, and less of a chance of finding out that your gringo man is cheating on you - but that does not mean he is NOT cheating on you. You just won't find out about it. Which would you prefer!?!

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cintiamay says on Jun 4, 2004, 10:18:

Wow, so many new posts... and I still have to respond to gringopingo... he makes many good points to my post and I think I agree with much...
but I wanted to respond to your post about falling for a colombiano. I am having the most fun with my colombian man. i have been seeing him for almost 4 months and we enjoy each other immensely. Of course, I am lucky, lucky, lucky, because we are both here in US. So its easy to see each other, we live only 1/2 hour away, which is how we met to begin with.
I feel for all of you who are trying this all long distance. It seems so incredibly difficult to do so not to mention the patience factor. I worry myself how we would go about anything if we ever got serious. But I'm not thinking about it now.... way too soon.
Anyway, you seem to really care for your man, but his drawbacks do seem plentiful. Is this really how colombianos are in their own country? Mine here works very hard, lives on his own (a small, small place, but his all the same), and at current, is NOT a jealous or cheating type. And very communicative, he seems adamant that its the only way relations will work. Again, since we are so close to each other and early in, cheating is not a prob... but I really feel its him, cuz his friends do cheat... birds of a feather...? I hope not...
Good luck with yours ntmi... I agree, mine is also extremely sexy, but don't let that sway you into accepting some of the frustrating habits you mentioned.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2004, 10:22:

masculinity vs.feminity When I first came to Colombia I thought even the men looked and acted feminine. That's because my point of reference was the rough-hewn and physically larger and stonger-looking descendants of the Vikings and peasants of the Northern Europe. I didn't feel attracted to Colombian men with their manicured small hands or trimmed mustaches at all! It took me a long while to understand that the essence of masculinity and feminity was not in the outer layer of the appearance, or the smooth or rough manner of speech, but it was a cultural thing. I believe now that we should look beyond the apparent differences of manner and speech, and that being extremely one thing or another is not even the ideal, since all of us have both in us.
I have said this often before, but it bears reminding that the Colombian society places huge prestige on the upbringing of the children to fullfill the ideal of their masculine/feminine roles. A girl child is raised up to be not just feminine and pretty but also pleasing and accessible. A boy child is pampered and priviledged: he's the "little man" in the house. The girls are taught to pitch in the housekeeping, cooking and such as training for their future roles as wife and mother. They're taught early in life that they have to act feminine and take great care of their looks so that their husbands won't stray looking for a younger and prettier woman. These roles have long been the very backbone of the society but are slowly but surely changing.
I have always had the feeling that men that go to Colombia looking for a bride that would be "more feminine" than the girls in Gringolandia are actually feeling nostalgic about the times when women stayed home and cared for the children while the men were the breadwinners in the family. They feel safe and secure in that role, and find their masculinity threatened by women who don't need a man to support them.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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junior says on Jun 4, 2004, 11:06:

the quest...... i think it is important to note that there are hundreds of colombian women on the internet looking for american men.

when i enrolled in match.com mexico looking for that "more feminine" non-macho dependent old fashion breadwinner wife...." i never dreamed that my profile would be sent throughout the world. i recieved emails from women all over the world.

but i recieved the most from colombia, i would estimate that since oct of 2003 i have recieve apx close to 300 emails from women in colombia of all ages, and i mean all ages.

i think this is important because it seems that we only are discussing american men looking for colombian women, but in reality it is very much a two way street with probably more colombian women actively searching than there are american men.

this is how i came to know colombia and feel such an attraction for this beautiful country that i have never visited(yet)but hope to very soon.

the truth is, latin women are more affectionate than white women.

it's the truth without being sexist or racist or anything else-ist...i never met an american women who called me papi, mi amor, mi gordito....clingy is good...very good. everybody is different, but it really makes a person feel good when your mate is clingy. jealousy makes you feel so valuable so loved!! hell yeah, i want a woman to love me like that. who wants me to call her every two seconds.

one thing about american women, when they fall in love with you, they absolutely adore you. unquestionably love you faithfully and forever. no doubt about it, you can count on them the rest of your life. i only wish they were more expressive....

lastly, there is something to be said about old-fashion values...for a woman to be worshiped and cared for as the most important thing in life is something beautiful not demeaning or minimizing....

MI REINA....

junior....i love colombia

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2004, 11:26:

unfair Junior, you're assessment of the expressiveness is slightly wrong...methinks. It's just words...but if that's what you like, I'm not going to argue with you. A woman that loves her man has a hundred ways of showing her affection, not just being clingy or jealous (I don't consider either displays of deep love). A woman doesn't need to be worshiped or put on a pedestal. I'd hate to be the object of such demonstrations. I want to care as much as being cared for, share everything with my man, support him when he's down, celebrate with him when things are going good. Is that wrong? Is that un-feminine?
If you had placed your ad somewhere in this area you'd be flooded with answers from very affectionate, expressive white women from Estonia to Moldavia who'd send you pictures of them in bikinis and a resumé of PHDs from the most prominent universities from Moscow to Bucarest. Plus call you "darling" and whatever you wanted to hear.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2004, 11:32:

and then pingo.... My comment of "small hands and trimmed mustaches" was just one of those famous first impressions. I've had to readjust my picture of Colombian men many times after that, from "yo soy un hombre sincero de donde crece la palma...what a laugh" to "never trust a man who listens to boleros"...and like Gary, I have also chosen to not to suspect the worst and rather take the disappointment at the due time.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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cintiamay says on Jun 4, 2004, 11:50:

Wow… this took a while
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Guess I should have known there would be some unhappy campers out there. These are only personal observation of mine gathered over the last 20 years or so. You can’t make al the people happy all the time. to each their own. i don’t tell anyone how to live their life.
As i have said in other posts i am sure there are gringas with qualities i find desirable, the thing is i wasn't lucky enough to meet any. i had gone out with a number of gringas and at that time i did not possess the experience with latinas thus did not have any reference comparison. I simply like and feel comfortable with the colombian culture, sense of humour, easygoing attitude.
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I can understand your feelings re: liking the Colombian culture, humor & attitude. Since you’ve lived there, you have first hand knowledge for your opinion. Depending on what pool of people in US you were exposed, I’m sure it may have been hard for you to meet that which you seem to admire in the Colombianas. Being a gringa though, I like to think I possess a lot of those same qualities, at least my current man thinks so ;)

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No, actually never had a memorable or bad instance with a gringa, nor am i hateful of them. just shared my perceived differences. will you think me strange if i tell you i don’t find britney spears sexy, physically attractive, or able to sing well? call me old fashioned but another super independent, super successful women by the name of Martha Stewart does not seem feminine either, at least to me. even many of the hollywood starlets that american men salivate over i do not find that attractive. to me many an ordinary colombian girl simply waiting at a bus stop is more attractive.
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Wow… all unmemorable experiences w/ gringas. Damn, where did you live anyway?? And as for Britney & Martha, its truly scary to think that those women might represent the majority of women in the US to foreigners. I am right with you. Britney…. Sorry, but ugh!! Talentless except for publicity, pandering herself like a streetwalker. And Martha, well, success by any means never appealed to me. And after reading in detail her life story (biased as it may be) I don’t think nurturing and compassion are in her genes. If anything is inherent in women as far as I’m concerned, it is those 2 traits. Martha’s scary! The fact that these are the types of role models US women are provided, shows how warped the US can be. Thankfully, not all gringas model themselves after these image-obsessed, uber-selfish types. And as for starlets, the only actress I would salivate over would be Kate Winslet, and she’s British.

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perhaps you may want to visit the country and spend some time and get to know he people and culture better as your sampling pool does not seem to be statistically significant.
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I agree with you, hence I dismissed this as being nothing more than a personal opinion about a select few persons.

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interesting dissertation theory. as far as "cheating" goes, it is really a gastronomy issue, in that some people like to vary the menu now and then and may actually find it psychosocially healthy.
again, to each their own. they don't tell you how to live your life and vice a versa.
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Your cheating theory is also “interesting”. My biggest objection personally to these people I’ve met is they cheat then brag about it to everyone. The loss of respect their friends then have for them, is one thing, but it seems to perpetuate a negative or disrespectful tone for the gender in general, i.e. the guys think they can score with all their friends girlfriends, and treat them accordingly. I could go with the varying menu concept, but not without some sort of mutual respect for the (un)knowing partner.

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There are tons of independent women in colombia, represented in all professions and perhaps the female % in graduate schools/medical/law is even higher than that of the usa. their minister of defense is a woman (donald rumsfeld equivalent) It seems in the usa, attractive girls tend to pursue law/medicine less than in colombia. sofia vergara was a dental student www.sofiavergara.com as one such example. can you honestly say medicine and law in the usa is saturated with beautiful women? my perception and that of other parts of latin america (as i have had this discussion with women of several spanish speaking countries) is that the colombian woman is "una mujer muy completa" that is to say very complete in multiple facets. inner beauty, outer beauty, intelligence, academia, family orientation, maternal devotion, and sexuality. To the "gringos" that do not know colombia, they know not what they are missing nor do they care. perhaps you think i am an aberration due to as you put it, an "uncertain place in American society". perhaps i am simply a person that has "tasted the honey" and knows the difference.

to each their own. to gringos that love gringas and vice aversa i say "god bless" whatever, whomever, individuals are free to navigate their own courses in life.
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Thanks for the information, and I’m sure I never meant that Colombianas are all dependent types. Balance is the key word, and something that anyone should strive to achieve. But its not easy. The question of whether medicine & law in the US is saturated w/ beautiful women… well, I don’t know vast amounts of professional lawyers & doctors enough to decide that, but I would guess not. And that certainly reflects back upon the role models and general society of the US (at least as the media provides). The general feeling here is if you look like Britney, you’ll never be taken seriously (blondes are smart??? what a concept, thanks Jessica, another one who uses her bubblehead act and supposed lack of sexual experience as a marketing tool)

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short of a gringo feeling alienated in his native society, why would a guy feel their place in American society is uncertain?
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Wow! Okay maybe that’s just the media I’m regurgitating, but my whole life I’ve heard how men here don’t know what their place is with women now that their roles have become more similar (i.e. women being independent, having good jobs, waiting to get married/have kids, etc.). The media, when they’re in this mode, like to portray independent women as not needing men and relegating men to minor status. I’m not saying I believe this in any way, but I do think that the evening of the playing field w/ jobs, education and earning potential has made things a bit confusing for many people these last 20 or so years. Perhaps that contributes to the thought that gringas are less feminine.

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I most certainly do not feel all/most non-gringas are more feminine, however it is my Irrevocable first hand experience that colombianas are overwhelmingly more feminine.
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In summation, I think there are many reasons you feel the way you do about gringas lack of femininity, and they’re not all off base. But I definitely don’t think it applies to a majority of gringas… well, it definitely doesn’t apply to me anyway!

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CintiaMay, are you latina? as you spell your name the latin way instead of Cynthia
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Btw, no, I’m not Latina. I spell my handle the way my colombiano spells and pronounces my name. I’m actually a typical US mutt, parts French, Norwegian, Irish, German and Native American.

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junior says on Jun 4, 2004, 11:55:

women with PHDs in fact i did recieve many emails from women in estonia, moldavia, urkraine,russia with phds and bikinis and the like. funny you would make that statement because it actually does exist.

with all that education they still reduced everything to the lowest common demoninator.....

junior...i love colombia

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 4, 2004, 12:03:

not a coincidence? I've actually had this same dialogue many times with my friends here in Sweden. There's a flood of these Eastern European women advertising themselves all over..."all very feminine, very traditional, very bright and higly educated". That many Latin women do the same...actively seek husbands from more stable and prosperous parts of the world does not look like a coincidence to me.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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cintiamay says on Jun 4, 2004, 14:00:

Shazcaz, thanks for the welcome. Looking forward to the men's responses regarding your question. As for me, I am trying (really) to view everyone one at a time, as generalizations are so callous (that includes the ones about colombianos and gringos as well) and do nothing but perpetuate myth and stereotype and cause those that give them and receive them less of chance to grow as humans and connect with potential mates/friends because the light inside others is missed.
Believe me, my colombiano could be completely missed and he & I already get strange looks from both sides of the fence (americans & latinos, men & women). This is not because one is pretty or ugly, (I think we are both bonita y guapo, and I'm not being pretentious with that) nor is it necessarily because he's latino & I'm americana. Mostly its because I am tall (5' 9") and he is not as tall =) (probably 5' 6"). You'd think we comitted a mortal sin the way some folks stare at us, like "how does that work" or something. It works very well thank you, and so does he ;) He also has very long hair, longer than mine, which I think is muy guapo and makes him very different than his friends.
Anyway, when any of my friends meet mi amore, they always come away saying how sweet, interesting, cute and well spoken he is. And also a lot of fun. Had I let the the social more that men must be taller than their woman, I would never have given him the 2nd (and 3rd & 4th) look that I did when we first met... thankfully, the stars aligned and my guardian angel kicked my butt and I decided this tall gringa moon child should give the short colombiano with the beautiful eyes, hair and smile a chance. The first time I ever dated a fellow Cancer, which I think is what really makes the difference.

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cintiamay says on Jun 4, 2004, 14:21:

Well, these words make me feel better... I was starting to get a complex listening to all the cheating colombiano talk! I've had gringos who cheated and I think its all about the age as well. Mi hombre grew up somewhat as you stated, with split parents and a father who moved on to other younger women. He's young, under 30, and I'm sure that his upbringing (both urban & rural areas) shaped his more enlightened outlook. As with any relationship, only time will tell.

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Many non-Colombian women I know in Colombia would say that the Colombian men they've met are much better in bed than men in their cultures because they are more sensitive, giving, romantic and passionate, and that they are not so obssessed with beer!
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Mine definitely is a great lover... but comparison to others, I'm not gonna go there... but your comment about beer obssession, that had me on the floor!! too funny...

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cintiamay says on Jun 4, 2004, 14:28:

I broke up with my very first girlfriend (gringa) because she didn't see the utility of me attending university
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Ouch! She couldn't see the purpose for getting higher education? Some people.. Unbelievable...

I'm really wanting to go to this fascinating & beautiful country... I know my colombiano would love to bring me... but I have to improve my Spanish first!

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 7, 2004, 06:55:

Just what kind of women are these, gringopingo? I know many women in Medellin and although they do not dress modestly, they are actually quite conservative in their sexuality and certainly would not engage in boasting about their conquests.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 8, 2004, 09:08:

Very amusing. Things may be different in other parts of Colombia but paisas are fairly conservative. Yes, they dress provocatively but a man should not make the mistake of assuming that just because they dress a certain way, they are "easy". They are frequently devout Catholics and kind of traditional and old-fashioned. This is why the Colombians have an old saying that if you want a pretty mistress, go to Cali but if you want a beautiful wife, go to Medellin.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 8, 2004, 12:27:

conservative yes And not all the caleñas are light-footed either. It's funny how things change. The caleñas have always been considered among the most beautiful women in Colombia, but the reputation of being "easy" is fairly new. However, there's still a whole lot of "conservative" good catholic girls in Cali and the appearences deceive. They are extremely fashion-concious and like to wear revealing clothing and much make-up, plus very high heels (how come they don't strain an ankle or even worse on the uneven sidewalks and streets full of potholes is beyond me...must be a an adquired skill:)
I'm afraid the impression many visiting gringos get of these "normal" girls (not working as models, escorts or in similar "professions" might not match their rather traditional behaviour.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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AngelGabriel says on Jun 8, 2004, 13:59:

Seemingly Conservative Paisa... About two weeks ago I met an interesting woman from Medellin. She's been in NY for about three months. Initially, she didn't want to dance with me, as she's not used to the clubbing atmosphere here or in Colombia, however, she said I looked well-dressed & mature compared to the other alpha males in the spot :)
She is an educated woman in her early 30s,who's held jobs as "contadora" & some other executive gigs in Medellin. We have talked about many things but some I recall her saying that women in Medellin are pretty "liberadas". She seemed defensive in the beginning but has open up to me a lot more. For the sake of being exact & considering what she said about many liberadas women over there; she seems rather prude, and I mean this in a good way. I got the impression that it's just like in other places, with the womem's liberation movement all over the world, sounded like you'll see a little of everything everywhere.
Another interesting note,according to her, there are a lot more foreigners seen in Medellin than 6 years ago, when explosions & gunshots were heard from home on a daily basis. Things are getting better.

Siente el Mambo YoYo

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 9, 2004, 07:09:

Clearly gringopingo, you would have to be a native Spanish speaker to understand 100%. Even a native speaker will miss a pun or an innuendo from time to time. I don't think I need to understand 100% of the jokes to understand my wife's personality and the conservative and traditional nature of her and her friends and family. I am quite a verbal person and yes, I frequently joke and even make word plays in Spanish.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 9, 2004, 13:12:

Prior to meeting my wife, I had no interest in Colombia or Colombian women. Although I was fluent in French, I could not speak Spanish and essentially learned the language with her so we could communicate. A year later she still doesn't speak any English! When I speak of the Medellin women that I know I am talking about her and her friends and sisters. Yes, they will joke about men and make funny little risque jokes and comments but they are not interested in "affairs" or "conquests" but in having a loving husband and a family to take care of. Here is an example of what I am talking about when I say they are traditional. My wife owns a house but she shares it with two single women who are close friends of hers. One of the women she has lived with for 15 years. I came to Medellin a week before our wedding to finalize our plans and my wife was worried what her roommates would think because we were sleeping together. A week before we are to be married!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 10, 2004, 06:49:

She was certainly the hottest "nun" I ever saw.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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