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My credit card was cloned in Medellin.

Gladly, I realized it promptly and they just could take a couple of millions out of it.
They probably copied the data from the card in a restaurant or a shop in Medellin. I don't use this card to get cash.
So my friends, log in your internet banking and look at the movements on your cards daily.

By robi666 on Jan 25, 2008, 13:46 in Friendly Talkzone.

robi666 says on Jan 25, 2008, 13:48:

This what I got from a shop at El Diamante where they bought some perfumes.
That is surely not my signature, cedula number and telephone.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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robi666 says on Jan 25, 2008, 14:17:

Well, I hope they will refund the money, frankly I don't know...

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nine inch nails says on Jan 25, 2008, 14:22:

When on the road I'm even afraid to log in to check my bank account for fear of interception. If I must then I use a land line in a secure area but never via wireless.

Had a small amount swiped on my credit card in the C.R. and ever since then most transactions have been via cash. Only exceptions are the hotel (if I trust) or a rental car (required for deposit).

Good thing you caught it soon Robi or they would of swiped even more.

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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tejasmarcos says on Jan 25, 2008, 14:30:

robi - i can't hold it in anymore, IT WAS ME!

* i secretly have a perfume fetish ;-)

waaaaaaaaaa!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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BillBigD says on Jan 25, 2008, 15:27:

Robi-You are fine. All charges will canceled.

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bhill says on Jan 25, 2008, 15:28:

No concern with looking at your statement via internet -- so long as its your own computer. The data is encrypted, so interception is unlikely. I would never trust an internet cafe computer for that though.

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panthdave says on Jan 25, 2008, 15:34:

I check with my internet in Medellin all the time and always change my pin to my cash card and don't use my credit card for cash and only POS Transactions...If its fraud and report timely the charges are cancelled well with Capital one they are..I am more afraid of the ATM Cloning then the credit cloning..Watched Caracol one night with my Novia and they have sensors around the ATM to read pins and also the cover cap over the original insert cap to read the number...That I am more concerned about because pin transactions are a hassel to dispute and a 30 day wait sometimes to get your money back...

panthdave Miami

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Morrongo says on Jan 25, 2008, 16:31:

I've heard lots of stories regarding clonning here in Cali. Now I am almost paraniod regarding taking cash out...i only use cash machines inside the big malls.not perfect,but cuts the risks down.
Rob is right,a daily check on your account ,can save a ot of heart ache.
Last year somebody at Aviatur passed my card details and they took nearly 40,000,000...ok the card company took the loss straight away, no problems ,but its time ,faxes ,phone calls, lots of hassel. The offending company that took the money was called Viajes Galeon Medellin.

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MaFe says on Jan 25, 2008, 19:06:

How are they able to do this? Every time I used my credit cards I had to show ID....They had a fake ID/ cedula with your name?

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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dwr says on Jan 26, 2008, 06:51:

I have had my USA Bank credit cards cloned three times and I believe it occurred in a high class restaurant north of Bogota two times. The reason I believe this is I hadn't made any purchases with the second card and right after going to that establishment, boom, charges made. The first time they bought 5 airline tickets. I noticed quickly enough that they actually caught one of the passengers on a flight. They simply claimed that they bought the tickets in cash from some travel agent in downtown Bogota. Nothing ever happened to them even though I filled out a statement with the local police. The second time, they purchased two computers in Atlanta at Circuit City. The third incident was with my USA bank ATM card. Two withdraws were made in New York City at a Citibank ATM. All three incidents were reimbursed by my banks. I don't use credit cards anymore in Colombia except at the grocery store.

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Medellin Traveler says on Jan 26, 2008, 07:20:

My paisa friend told me last week he went to withdraw his paycheck at an ATM and noticed there was some type of gadget mounted to were you insert your card. He alerted everyone in line, and called the police. They arrived and after inspection, they pulled out the clone machine, from what I have heard can easily be purchased over the internet by anyone, for $50.

It's probably best to go to the bank with a security guard on duty. The US government should push for ID request from anyone using a credit card in all countries outside of the US.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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Timba says on Jan 26, 2008, 08:09:

This chit happens everywhere. I had my credit card number used by someone at TACA after purchasing a ticket in Miami. Next thing I know, my credit card was cancelled stranding me. Some chit was using my card in Guatamala.

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tejasmarcos says on Jan 26, 2008, 08:11:

MT - the "clone machine/apparatus" was attached to the ATM? holy shit!

* does any of you super sleuths aut there know what one of these looks like? what should we be looking out for?

* i am naive and figured if there is no one looking over my shoulder, i am safe. guess not.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Medellin Traveler says on Jan 26, 2008, 08:49:

"MT - the "clone machine/apparatus" was attached to the ATM? holy shit!" - tejasmarcos

YES!

That's how it works. You attach the gadget to where you insert your ATM card, it reads all your information when you slide your card in to withdrawal monies.

There was a recent article in the Chicago Sun Times about this scam and they had a picture of two guys in the middle of the day, looking like service techs, attaching these gadgets all over town. These guys didn't even attempt to hide their faces. Their photos were snapped from the ATM cameras. They did this inside bank premises as well.

The article mentioned that the gadgets could be purchased over the internet.

All you need to know about the latest cloning scams...
http://fraudwar.blogspot.com/2005/09/atm-machines-that-clone-your-card...

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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tomtom33 says on Jan 26, 2008, 09:10:

"The US government should push for ID request from anyone using a credit card in all countries outside of the US."

Forgive me, but I think the US government has enough fish to fry right now. And I think that we push enough stuff on the rest of the world as it is.

You leave the protective cocoon of the US, and you take your chances.

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tejasmarcos says on Jan 26, 2008, 10:04:

MT - scary stuff.

* during my last stint in Seattle, i met some of the encryption and security coding elite of that town (technology intellectual capitol of the world) and they were telling me that the big banks and credit card companies are working on a technology that scrambles your credit card number everytime after you use it, therefore rendering your last credit card transactioned number useless to crooks who might have copied or stolen it. pretty cool stuff actually - i can only assume the ATM cards will follow.

let's all hope so.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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eywed says on Jan 26, 2008, 11:10:

For every new security measure there will be a crook to get around it in good time.

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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tejasmarcos says on Jan 26, 2008, 11:47:

i understand this next one to be a random number generator of sorts, but yeah, technology has a way of being its own enemy.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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sloopskipper says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:32:

I come from that industry and I remember some years ago, a handheld pin number/password generator, of sorts, for computer logon. You read your number from this device which would match the number at the host, and it changed every few seconds due to some synchronized algorithm.

In the 80s(?) the encryption used to be done with little handwired patch panels.

Biometric ID is good, then they would have to hold a gun to your head, or cut your finger off.

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tejasmarcos says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:36:

"You read your number from this device which would match the number at the host, and it changed every few seconds due to some synchronized algorithm."

sloop - that is basically how i understood the technology to work, more or less.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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sloopskipper says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:38:

Yes, but that is not new technology, at least in concept. This was probably the early-mid 90s, and I had clients using that, and biometrics (iris scan & fingerprint).

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juli says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:40:

"Biometric ID is good, then they would have to hold a gun to your head, or cut your finger off."

The newer readers are supposedly taking body temperature in an effort to ward off choped fingers or corpses taking out money.

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sloopskipper says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:42:

THAT makes sense! Except for the gun-at-the-head iris scan.

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sloopskipper says on Jan 26, 2008, 12:43:

But not such a problem at point-of-sale.

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miamimike says on Jan 26, 2008, 17:36:

dwr says on Saturday January 26th, 2008 6:51:

I have had my USA Bank credit cards cloned three times and I believe it occurred in a high class restaurant north of Bogota two times
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DWR--How about sharing the name of the High Class Restaurant with the Rest of us? Its not that eccentrically decorated place with the Good Steaks is it?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jan 26, 2008, 17:39:

MT--these are the Scam Card Readers going around Miami--they have been discovered in the recent past ob Bank ATMs in Coral Gables and Kendall. Last group they caught using them was a Ring of Venezuelans!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Robert Jorge says on Jan 28, 2008, 01:19:

A lot of these scams seem to start in Miami. They were discovering and warning people about the ATM devices as described above in the Miami area 10 years ago. You would think people smart enough to pull this shit off would be smart enough to be able to make an honest living.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Medellin Traveler says on Jan 28, 2008, 09:39:

Honest people are living an honest life, these guys are crooks, living the life of a ladron. It's easy money.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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robi666 says on Jan 28, 2008, 15:05:

The people who cloned my card, bought half million in perfumes, ate at Ave Maria in Parque Lleras and at a famous mafiosos pesebrera in Robledo.
Hard to say they did it for living...

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dwr says on Jan 29, 2008, 07:59:

Miami Mike Didn't want to say the name but yes!

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robi666 says on Jan 29, 2008, 08:30:

You may be right GIB, but you get better rate on VISA and I don't have to pay a commission for cash advance (no Italian bank has zero commission).
I won't have to pay that stolen money, anyway. If you do your homework (check your cc frequently) it is a reasonable risk...
For the future, I will use it less for sure. Maybe just in Carrefour and similar.

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:52:

"...I can take out 700K at a time from the ATM..."

GIB, who is allowing 700 per withdrawal? I have counted on Davidienda for 500 at a time.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:54:

I've had my credit card # cloned three times. All of them in the US. I use my credit cards in Colombia extensively and have never had a problem yet. I actually think that a lot of the fraud is very high-tech with numbers being intercepted over unencrypted networks like the dial up machines a lot of small businesses use.

Note to those who are simply travelling to Colombia: Alert your credit card companies that you're going to Colombia or you're likely to get the card shut off quite quickly. This happened to me not long ago when I was in Caracas. Some kind of fraud flag went up on the automated systems and my cards were frozen until I called in.

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 10:55:

BTW, I received a powerpoint file not long ago, warning about ATM cloning. I saved it because it illustrates step by step how the theives do it and what the false equipment looks like.

If anyone wants a copy of the file, just PM me. I'm not sure it can be loaded into a thread here. But, it's only a 250k file. It is only in Spanish though.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 11:22:

"citibank will do it for you. So you can take out 1.400.000 at a time."

That's a good deal. I will have to try them. Davidienda will let you take out 500 x 2, Bancolombia will let you take out 400 x 3.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 29, 2008, 12:43:

To be honest, I'd much rather deal with the risk of credit card fraud than walk around with big wads of cash all the time.

Credit card companies are REALLY good at spotting fraud and have alerted me every time it happened. That, and eating the losses, are a big part of how they earn their percentage.

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robi666 says on Jan 29, 2008, 13:36:

You can take up to 800.000 (not 700.000) in one shot at Citibank.

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 14:49:

So, is it 800 x 2 at Citibank?

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 14:50:

I believe that your home bank, not the Colombian ATM, sets the daily limit. Thus if your bank has a US$1000 daily limit, Bancolombia would allow as many transactions as it would take to get the US$1000.

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 14:53:

Tom, you're saying ATM's in Colombia offer unlimited withdrawals?

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 14:59:

Yes, they do. I have taken 5 and 6 withdrawals in a row of 100K when I wanted smaller change. I have no transaction fees. I have never been refused money from any Colombian ATM as long as I did not exceed my home bank's daily limit.

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Rob77 says on Jan 29, 2008, 15:07:

But, Tom, if you only took 100k 5 or 6 times, you didn't take that much out. That still leaves me with doubt about the maximum daily withdrawal limit.

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

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tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 15:41:

I'm sorry if I'm not explaining things right. The point is that there is no limit on the number of consecutive withdrawals you can make. The only limit is the daily maximum set by your home bank. Back when the dollar bought more pesos, I would need 4 transactions to near my daily limit of US$505.

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robi666 says on Jan 29, 2008, 16:21:

Tom is correct about the maximum amount.
GIB, just push the "other amounts" button and enter 800k. Panthdave discovered this first and passed the info to me.

Taking 800k in one shot is good for me, because my bank charge me 4% per transaction (that's per shot) up to a limit of 2.50 Euros.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 16:24:

That is interesting, GIB. I never tried that. My guess, though, is that it may not work. My transactions are normally posted within 30 minutes. And I have been denied "over limit" when the peso dropped below 2000 when I tried to take 1 million(from the same ATM).

How can you get 1.4 million when your daily limit is US$300?

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robi666 says on Jan 29, 2008, 16:46:

Changing bank does not work for me. But, who knows, maybe a particular bank or a particular card.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 29, 2008, 16:47:

I don't think that the ATM has limits. Here is an example. I use BanCafe a lot. They give a max of 300K per transaction. My CapitolOne Bank limit is US$500. I normally take 3 withdrawals of 300K. Then I take one of 100K. When the pesos dips below 2000, that last withdrawal is denied. There is no transaction fee nor is there an international transaction fee.

I have experienced that deal where you hit "other amount" and enter an amount higher than the highest amount shown on the screen. I have also been denied trying that. It must vary from bank to bank.

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cali373 says on Jan 29, 2008, 21:15:

I feel your pain. My credit card was cloned in Mexico.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 01:24:

As far as I know, the reason for the transaction limits has to do with the fees charged for each transaction. BBVA charges its customers for each transaction. Non-BBVA bank account holders also pay a fee. When I use my CapitalOne debit card in a BBVA ATM, the ATM does not know that I also hold a BBVA account, and that transaction is subject to non-customer fees. CaptialOne charges me no fees. So CapitalOne is eating those fees.

Essentially, the Colombian ATMs want fees. There is no financial incentive for them to have any limit on the number of transactions.

I have 5 ATM cards for 5 different accounts. One account has a limit of US$500. The other four have limits of US$505. Thus I can get US$2520 per day in COP. I could just as easily get 20 or 30 ATM cards.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 05:28:

No, I haven't tried that. I will.

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robi666 says on Jan 30, 2008, 06:12:

Ok, last news about my card...
I have to file a report at the Police, which I did of course, but my bank wants the translation with a mark from the embassy... yes, I go to Bogota and do it... damned pricks...

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robi666 says on Jan 30, 2008, 06:18:

GIB, do you know why i love Colombia? Thank God, there's always another simpler way to do things, a sort of old Naples...

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pedro says on Jan 30, 2008, 06:30:

Hey Robi, as it happens I need to travel to Bogota tomorrow to get a procuration put together at the French consulate. Back to Medellin on Saturday.

If there's any way I can help with your document, let me know.

que nota!

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robi666 says on Jan 30, 2008, 06:40:

Thanks so much for your offer Pedro. It is really appreciated.

My father is asking if he can get any sort of mark on the translation I have provided from the Colombian consulate in Rome. They are usually very helpful.
If not, I'll try to visit the Italian consul in Medellin if he can help. They do not authenticate documents, but whatever stamp on the doc will do it, I guess.

Hell, I can print something with my computer on it and the pricks won't even realize it.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 07:57:

GIB, who gives a fuck what anyone thinks of us? I know I certainly don't. I have old friends who think that I am the worst pig in the world because I date women who are 30 to 40 years younger than I am. I guess maybe I am a pig, but I don't care what they think.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 30, 2008, 08:23:

I think he also forgot to mention that a lot of girls are looking for a man who isn't still living at home with mom and dad. I think it's pretty tough for some of these young guys in their 20's and early 30's who still are.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 08:27:

The kid was pretty much right on. However, I have been spurned by young ladies in their early 20's because I'm too old. I hit 60 this year. I can't really blame them.

However, there are many who have no problem. Of course money enters the equation. But I like to think that I'm a bit more mature. I can offer stability. I do not drink, smoke, drug or gamble. And I treat them all very well.

I should get to my apartment in Laguito around 6:30 tonight. Paola, age 21, is coming over at 7:00. Ana Maria, 20, is expecting my call. Katia, 24 and a former novia, has a girlfriend for me to meet. And I'm guessing that I may run into a few other "old" flames as well. I think I'll have a busy 6 weeks. Hopefully Elmo stops over to give me a hand.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 30, 2008, 08:32:

I hope you've been eating your Wheaties.

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tomtom33 says on Jan 30, 2008, 08:34:

I do have a good supply of Cialis laid in. Thank God for modern medicine.

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robi666 says on Jan 30, 2008, 08:59:

Well Tom... what can I say? We just love you :-)

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