My Colombian Girlfriend

dwmte says on Apr 23, 2005, 16:39:

congradulations, friend... i'm glad to hear all worked out and you're happy.

have a wonderful life. all the best to you and your family.

dw

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Patrick says on Apr 23, 2005, 18:46:

If you want to be happy for....... If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty woman your wife, so from my personal point of view get an ugly girl to marry you...

course I never take my own advice, hehe

Don't blame me I voted for Ron Paul!

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kernow62 says on Apr 23, 2005, 20:13:

If you are an average guy witha drop dead gorgeous woman well.. let me know how its going in a few years time.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2005, 22:39:

I don't know if I am an average guy or not, but to me my wife is drop-dead gorgeous and it's going great!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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bbattiste says on Apr 23, 2005, 23:00:

My Colombiana Wife... is extremely jealous and untrusting...she went through my cell phone and is upset I have a few girls phone numbers that are married too. She always holds my hand and is very affectionate, needs our house to be spotless always, but has never asked me to give her family money, although I do, and her friends have never hit on me. Oh yea, my wife is hot too. She is 35, I am 41. When I first met her, her sister told me she was 26 and I thought that for 7 months. But it's cool cuz she acts 35 and looks 26.

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Profesora says on Apr 24, 2005, 00:07:

Men Behaving Badly = Jelous Women. Ah, the Gringos Abroad. And it's not just in Colombia, but Asia as well. Get this, they are guys women wouldn't look twice at in North America or Europe, and so they think they'll try their luck abroad. Well, we all know the pulling power of the exotic right? And suddenly, they're off the plane in Latin America, in Korea, or Thailand, and they are the coolest, sexiest things on earth. (Trust me, they're not, but a man's got to try right?) And can afford to be cool and sexy, can't they, because they've got the benifit of hard currency, (which is about the only thing hard about them).

Next thing, they're posing in the bars and pulling in the chics. Well, the curious (or ambitious) ones anyway.

Then they realise,"Hey, this a macho culture, I can walk over this woman and get her to do stuff that my last gringa girlfriend wouldn't do. She'll be my SLAVE! Forever! (Cue the evil Igor laughter). Never mind that macho cultures have their own system of checks and balances. And what is respected in return is that you will love her tenderly and make her bite the pillow in passion. You guys wouldn't know passion if it bit you in the arse. Instead, you take the comfort of a regular girlfriend and continue to play the field. She keeps hoping you'll change, but that's not the way it goes.

Let's say she puts up with all your crap and actually married you and goes back to your country. It could be that she realises that things will never change. So it's adios, and you'll be left sad, and in your fifties, trying to pick up girls in a Thai bar wondering what you did wrong. Alone.

In macho cultures boys, remember this. Women are survivors, soft on the outside, but very tough on the inside. Sort of the reverse of Europe. They have to be. More women in Colombia die at the hands of their husbands than men die at the hands of the coca mafia.

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go2pr says on Apr 24, 2005, 01:00:

What an acrimonious diatribe, full of harshness !!

Did you register here just to spread your venom and your silly statements ?

Get a life.

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Profesora says on Apr 24, 2005, 01:23:

Open your eyes Sorry, you're absolutely right. Familarity breeds comtempt. I've seen the world mate.

What I descibe here is not ALL western men, naturally. But when you've been working in Thailand, Korea, Japan and Goa, when you've seen the extent of the damage, when you look at the reason why - the attitude that one can behave in a foreign culture with total impugnity, and to observe so many behave this way, it make you really really angry. Sexual tourism is one of the scourges of the earth. It results in 1/10 Thai women, and 1/20 Korean women becoming involved in the sex industry from an appaulingly young age.

We are all responsible for each other, my friend. I'm all for cross-cultural relationships (had a few myself). But what I'm not for is exploitation, for treating other cultures with crass impugnity.

Western men can behave like aboslute scum in other countries, and well you know it.

Prof.

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go2pr says on Apr 24, 2005, 01:40:

Stop with your condescending tone, I'm not "your friend" nor your "mate" (whatever this means).

South Korea, as Japan's prostitution industries are at 99% for the benefice of LOCALS. You diatribe about sex-tourism and western men in those countries is only subjective and embittered feminazi crap. There's NO sex tourism involving westerners in Korea or Japan, except in very small and very limited zones of Seoul or Tokyo like Itaewon or Roppongi.

This is also true for Colombia, Argentina, Peruvian or Brasil, where the hundreds thousands existing brothels are invaded everyday of the week by millions of LOCALS, and not by foreigners. Brasil's sex industry is the biggest and best well-organized on the planet, and at 99% for the benefice of brasilian men.

Your moralizing diatribes about how the World is falling victim to western males and how the commercial sex industry is soley the result of foreigners are ridiculous and only acrimonious feminazi gesticulations ..... only hypocrits and bleaks moralizers like you can find this derisory propaganda credible (this of course helping you to spread your embittered crap).

Get a life and stop your pompous statements : you've seen nothing of the World.

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go2pr says on Apr 24, 2005, 01:40:

*

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doñaquixote says on Apr 24, 2005, 04:02:

Pass the Oyxygen, people!
Hey, isn't it time we lightened up a bit. General feminist diatribes
(when a woman sounds off, it's a diatribe. Macho sounding off is him
telling it like it is, no justice is there) do no good and just get
people's backs up. Time to tune in to Empathy FM, I think. Gentlemen,
don't judge profe too harshly. Reading between the lines, it looks as
if she's just returned from Asia, or is nearing the end of her stay
there. God knows I was pissed off, angry and disgusted by what I had
seen there when I got back. Fortunately, I got my sense of humour
back, for which we should all be thankful. Profe, give it some time.

Secondly, lads, you should remember that western women usually have a
very different experience working abroad than guys do, especially in
highly conservative and traditional cultures. For us, the experience
can be much more isolating than for the men - it can really dangerous
too. I remember being in the dating desert in Korea - the local blokes
wouldn't date us, and the western blokes were too busy having a ball
with the local girls.

Now, go2pr, as for Western guys not using prostitutes, you and I both
know that's not true. The sexual tourism industry is a global one,
with SE Asia and Latin America being prime hotspts for it. Human
trafficking and Paedohilia are fueled by this phenomenon. The point
here is not that local men use them, the point is the Western men make
a bad situation worse. Not only that, but a large number of young
western men use these countries as places to have exotic sexual
experiences, often not being entirely honest with their girlfriends as
they should. To be very fair, I've seen gringas behave this way in
Cuba too, and in fact there is a whole branch of the Cuban sex
industry that thrives on their custom. When we go to other countries,
it's easy to cut loose and divorce ourselves from reality, and behave
in ways we never would at home.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 24, 2005, 04:03:

For what it's worth... So, with regards to the Cross Cultural dating, here's some advice, for
what it's worth.

For the western men dating local women:

1) Be honest, both with your self and with your partner. If you don't
want a serious relationship, say so and get the ground rules staight
before things get to the stage where people are gonna get hurt.

2) Be safe. Use a condom, it's the only way to pervent STDs. You would
be amazed at how many sexually active men in their 20s and 30s don't
know how to put one on properly. Girls, learn how to put one on your
man.

3)Don't view women in these counties as "little brown f*cking
machines". Remember that if a girl has sex with you, in traditional
cultures there is usually an expectation of marriage. Girls, do not
have sex with guys unless you really trust them, want to do it, and
are sure (and ok) with their intentions. Remember that in the west,
sex does NOT equal marriage.

4) Do learn to dance. Hell, that's one even if you are going out with
a western chick. No, no one will think you are gay if you move your
hips. Remember that ALL girls can tell how you'll be in bed from the
way you dance.

5) Don't assume she'll be a doormat, at least not in the late stages
of the relationship. In traditional cultures, a woman's power
increases with her age. Respect her, or you will be sorry. And
possibly without testicles.

For Colombian (or other) girls dating western guys:

1) if your English is not good, and his Spanish non-existant, stay
away from romantic entanglements until the language situation
improves. Some guys will try to control the relationship by controling
your conversation. Practice your English with friends, not with
lovers. Relationshis are too important.

2) Stand up for yourself. Don't be a doormat. If you live together,
make him clean up and help with the household chores. In his country,
he is expected to do this and not to help you would be seen as taking
advantage of you.

3) It's NOT okay, or expected, for a man to cheat on his woman. If he
does it, he doesn't love you enough, or respect you.

4) If you've got a good man, lay off the snooping. Jelous and clingy
behaviour is intensly irritating to a western guy. Trust him. If you
don't trust him, what the hell are you doing with him?

5) Never deceive someone for a greencard or residence in the West.
Make a business relationship if you have to, but don't mess with
someone's heart, see also point 6.

6)Er...how shall I put this delicately? "Gold-diggers" women who want
men for their money, are seen as whores. Don't. He can always find a
cheeper whore.

7) Do NOT let him pressure you into sex. And ALWAYS insist on a
condom. If he doesn't want to use one, he's being selfish. Selfish men
are crap in bed.

For both,

If you want to be really happy, you'll realise that true love is
mostly about courage, hard work and mutal respect, and cross cultural
relationships no less so.

Doña Q

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ARMacleod says on Apr 24, 2005, 04:29:

nice post Doña Q It would be great indeed if even a smal percentage of the general populace followed that advice. But alas, even though most know the rules already, few follow them.

Pax vobiscum. James.

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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greenday says on Apr 24, 2005, 04:59:

Profesora Hey, I kind of agree with Profesora's points, although he/she was kind of crass in the way he/she presented it...

Sometimes the truth does hurt!!

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dwmte says on Apr 24, 2005, 05:14:

yo dona.... er, wow...i think that covers it, i'm a gringo and been there and done most of that. worked all over the world. although i wasn't a guy who used working gals, i lost my cherry to one in okinawa. and then i worked all over the world and was able to see where of you speak.

i would make one point, it is not just western guys that line up to employ the savory treats of the women, it's men from everywhere who happen to be working abroad.

as for codes of conduct, i think you penned it well and we could all learn by applying same.

i've been married to a paisa for 16 years and we've wadded through it all to get here. now, it's nice, but it was tough getting here and i heartily recommend that others read and believe what you've shared.

i have no clue where you are, who you are or where you've been...kind of sounds like the 'been there, done that' syndrome. whatever, thanks for the post, we've all profitted by it.

douglas

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go2pr says on Apr 24, 2005, 05:36:

Dona Q Amen.

I've rarely read a sermon about sex and relationships so bigoted and outdated.

Benedicto XVI must be a naughty and amoral progressive compared to you.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 24, 2005, 05:51:

Thanks "i have no clue where you are, who you are or where you've been...kind of sounds like the 'been there, done that' syndrome. whatever, thanks for the post, we've all profitted by it."

I'm a Scottish sociologist and cross cultural management working towards my Masters in Armed Conflict Resolution. currently I'm doing research on Human Trafficking. I'll be coming to Colombia to teach and to clean up my Spanish before I start my masters. I've worked mainly in Korea and India, and when in the UK I worked as a relationship and sexual health counsellor until a certain caballero from the Spanish caribbean broke my heart and it was a case of "physician, heal thyself". Which I did in Asia. Now I think it's safe for me to return to Latin America.

For what it's worth, go2pr I disagree with the appointment of El Papa and think the Nigerian guy should have got the job. The majority of the cathlic church is brown, so we should have had a pope that reflects it.

Cheers, Dona Q.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 24, 2005, 10:16:

doña quixote, excellent post on cross-cultural relationships. You said it better than what I've been trying to say for over a year here on this board.

My choice for the Pope would have been the salsa-loving hondureño.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 24, 2005, 10:28:

Personally I thought a lot of the cross-cultural advice was overstated and could be applied in any relationship cross-cultural or otherwise. My problem with it is it indulges in the same stereotypes that PBH is full of. Americans only care about money, Colombians care more about their families, Colombianas are always late and have no sense of money etc. The board is friggin full of this crap. If I was someone who didn't know anything about this stuff my head would be spinning. Good thing I didn't start reading this board until after I was married - I never would have been able to pull it off with PBH advice. How about this? Live by the Golden Rule and relate to the other person as an individual worthy of the respect and NOT as a walking stereotype. We are all human beings and essentially we want the same things in life.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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greenday says on Apr 24, 2005, 10:32:

UC you're right on!!!

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platano says on Apr 24, 2005, 10:35:

Doña Q, To join the chorus, nice job! Especially that "mutual respect" part.
The green banana takes off his hat to salute you!

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 24, 2005, 11:09:

DQ.....well, let's see....what can i add to that? start by suggesting you get back to the brown skinned land of latin america, find the dude that stiffed you, tell 'em to fuck off, get on with your--what appears to be--interesting life. caring and sharing and helping those you can.

i don't need to meet you to know you are a friend of mine...and my wife and children (i have many) and i would glad to introduce you to my folks (who are very old(83 and 87). i'd take you home any day, or to mass or dinner or to the beach

i'm glad you landed on our (peters) site and can see your input will be salient and welcomed.

all the best,

douglas w martin, the elder (dwmte)

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dwmte says on Apr 24, 2005, 11:12:

if the pope should be browner... to more accurately reflect catholics, does it of necessity follow, that i, too, should be browner, as i, too, am catholic?

just an aside and not meant to labor weighty issues.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 24, 2005, 11:19:

I agree, UC that many items on DQ's list are just as applicable for any relationships; within the same culture. Some of them are just common sense, but what I especially liked was the clear-cut presentation of the issues, recommendations and advice.
Cheers,
Desi
/who doesn't believe in "amigos con derechos"/

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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go2pr says on Apr 24, 2005, 11:55:

I agree Agree, in the DQ post I've been especially enjoying the :

"Girls, do not have sex with guys unless you really trust them and are sure with their intentions".

I almost pissed in my pants laughing.

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Bill1243 says on Apr 24, 2005, 14:40:

note Profesoras remarks were way offbase. I could just imagine what she looks like! Putting down the western man for wanting something better than what is here. So many men here have had it with American women. I meet tons of great men when I am traveling and many many of them have had it up to here with the attitudes of gringos.

As far as her comments on the sex industry, the women have made a choice to be in it, and the men are simply buying the available services. No harm done....been going on for centuries. Without it these women would not be able to feed their kids!! Especially since 90% of them have kids, can't find a regular job, or if they do it doesn't pay enough to feed the family.

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dwmte says on Apr 24, 2005, 14:54:

what a pathetic doldrum.... we, as humans, find ourselves in...

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fennell01 says on Apr 24, 2005, 18:50:

My Colombian Girlfriend Hey Guys would like to reply to several folks who gave it their two cents. First...Professora. You have anger issues. "guys that women in the states wouldnt look twice at" I am 6'3 205pds I am well educated, in shape,good looking, and financially secure. I am in my 30s and can pick up almost any Gringa. The thing is, I dont want a Gringa. I have had 100s of Gringas, and I am done with them. I could elaborate on why I am done with them but I think that almost everyone on this post knows why....woman like you would probably be a good start. Also, Professora, "do stuff a Gringa woman wouldnt", Are you serious? It took me 1 year to sleep with my Girlfriend from Colombia. It has Never taken more than three dates with a Gringa-Never-and these are not Ghetto Girls these are well educated highly intelligent woman-my last Gringa is a Yale Law Grad(1st night).

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platano says on Apr 24, 2005, 19:00:

Fennell01, to meet great Colombian women... This is Plátano's little-known tip for finding great Colombian women and this information has probably never before appeared on PBH!

I have met the most interesting Colombian women in bookstores (lawyers, social workers, doctors, and other professional women as well as activists, thinkers, and dreamers capable of carrying on an intelligent and fascinating conversation). Their brains are as hot as their bodies!

If I didn't meet women, I learned something about Colombian culture (and universal culture) from browsing the books on sale. I spent hours in bookstores all over Colombia. Bookstore owners are fascinating people, too. Don't neglect hole-in-the-wall bookstores, second-hand bookstores, or specialty bookstores. They are all great!

To help you out I am annexing a PDF file, a complete list of bookstores in Colombia here.

Platano, who really knows how to have a good time in bookstores!
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 24, 2005, 22:12:

Platano, what can I say? You're a wild man.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 00:13:

dwmte ... you make me feel all warm and fuzzy... ...an uncomfortable position for a straight-talking Scottish thistle!

But in general, if I wanted to tell that wonderful man to fuck off, I would have to go back to my country, not to Latin America. I said he broke my heart, I didn't say he made me angry. At least, I'm more angry with myself. I would write a book on it but Snr. Garcia Marquez beat me to it, the bastard.

But thanks for the invite... newbees always need friends. I'll message you when I'm nearer to landing - funny that Mum and Dad were ok with India during a Nuclear Crisis, and South Korea when there were 20,000 pieces of heavy N Korean artilary trained on my house, but are having kittens at the thought of me coming to Bogota ... funny ol' world, eh? Anyway, I'll bring a bottle of my nation's finest.

Cheers. DQ.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 00:42:

To Go and the Rest... I was an HIV prevention officer and counsellor, and though I'm Roman Catholic, I really believe that condom use is extremely important, especially as AIDS will become as epidemic in Latin America as it is in Africa if people don't start using them properly. This is not moralising, I couldn't give a flying toss what you do in bed as long as you don't hurt anyone - physically or emotionally. Your morality is between you and whatever deity you believe in - not me. I doubt very much whether Cardinal Rotweiler would advocate condom use the way I'm doing here.

Incidentally, combating AIDS in the developing world has everything to do with providing women with information and combating ridiculous machista notions that a) good girls don't know anything about sex b) do not carry condoms c) only gay men spread AIDs or any of the rest of that bloody macho rot. In the sizable studies we've conducted in various parts of the world, we have noticed a direct coorealation between the relative power of women in a society and the incidence of HIV tranmission. Ever seen anyone die of AIDs, Go?

The other thing is that forgeiners frequently abandon acceptable behaviour when they are in developing countries because they are not part of the cultural systems and therefore can behave with impugnity. In particular I've notice manipulative and controling men deliberately seeking partners whose level of English is low in order to control them.

Now, I'm no bra-burner, but I've a few stories from East Asia which will make the blood of any decent man on this forum boil. Sometimes it's not easy for a woman to spot a potential abuser from another culture: the sociolinguistic cues are difficult to pick up on. Also, there can be a tragic misconception amoungst women from the developing world that a green card will solve all their problems and make them happy. Well, I also worked with battered women. It doesn't. Especially in Europe, the women who come from the developing world are complete at the mercy of their husbands - more like a slave than anything else. Papers take an age to come through and are dependant on the husband's say-so. He can basically delay the citizenship process and keep her as a slave. In this sense, underneath the gall, Profesora was essentially right.

I realise that of the forgein men who marry Colombian women only a small number will treat their wives this way, but the risk is there.
What I wrote was there primarily to protect local women while enable them to enjoy the considerably creative and interesting experience that a cross cultural relationship can bring, without placing themselves in physical or emotional danger. And to remind the lads of their responsibilities.

So put out your nastly little flame, Go, and go and do something socially useful.

Cheers, DQ.

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go2pr says on Apr 25, 2005, 01:27:

DQ "So put out your nastly little flame"

Is a flamer someone who doesn't share the bigoted views about sex of some christian fundamentalist spreading her archaic and pontificating beliefs on internet, or who answer to the the embittered diatribes of an acrimonious feminazi who ramble about how the World is falling victim to western males ?

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Lionheart says on Apr 25, 2005, 01:52:

failing to keep my mouth shut In many things I agree with DQ, but she is making big mistakes.

Colombia cannot be compared with Asia and all the horrors going on there. It is happening in Asia for a long time now, and it will continue, their culture has a fault for accepting it.

I lived in Europe 30 years and know the history concerning Asia, it is fairly accurate the way DQ describes it. But this is a Colombia forum. Facts concerning Colombia need to be used, and not plain generalizing all 3rd worlds. Colombia is different in many ways and cannot be compared. This is also a reason the term sex-tourism used in other threads isn't accurate.

I very much agree to the cross-cultural relationship list. It is something all should at least think about in my opinion. BUT ... it is just a rule-of-thumb, and doesn't fit everywhere.

One thing I do not like at all, not all brown(black) can be put into one pot, just as all whiteys don't belong into one pot. That also reminds me of segregation btw. Each culture needs to be respected in its own form and shape, independent of color, race, or religion. And each culture and/or nation has a different story to tell. This forum tells the Colombian story.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 03:37:

See that Pope: what gives HIM the right to Pontificate?
1) GO, a fundementalist Christian ( and they tend to think the Catholic CHurch is the Woman Clothed In Scarlet on the Seven Horned Beast) would tell you that you shouldn't have sex if you are not married to the person you are having sex with. You will find nothing in my words which indicate I'm a fundementalist. In fact, I am a progressive and a liberal, as any one with half a brain can see.

2)Since when has enjoining people to respect one another, be safe and use a condom been "archaic and pontificating" ? Besides the Pontif - the only one who CAN pontificate, thinks condomns are the tools of the devil. If you are going to try and be funny at least show evidence of some braincells.

3) Lionheart, I know the situation in Latin America is not as bad as Asia, partly because latin women are not as 'submissive'as some of the sleezeballs from the north think they are. The point is that quite a few travel South - or East - because they have some fantasy(at best, inaccurate, at worst, insane) about Latin women. These are the ones who will probably lose their testicles, mind.

4) The advice I gave was for anyone in a cross cultural relationship (and as Desi pointed out, could be applicable to all relationships). I generalised because a)the disrespectful forgeiner is ubiquitos to all countries b) Latin America has been used for 100s of years as a place for white guys from the North to party. And then leave.

5)And where there be guns and drugs, there is also the trafficking of human flesh. True for Latin America, true for East Asia. In this respect, Colombia is no exception, except of course that it is the poorest women who are most at risk. http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvla.htm , if you are interested.

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go2pr says on Apr 25, 2005, 05:45:

lol "Anyone with half a brain", "at least show evidence of some braincells" ....


Right.

Anyone with half a brain can see that the bigoted DQ and the acrimonious "Profesora" are the same person.

Lol

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dwmte says on Apr 25, 2005, 07:24:

go2pr... i'm havin difficulty here....why is there a problem?

moreover, what is the problem?

regime change should start at home.

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platano says on Apr 25, 2005, 07:37:

UTC, yes I'm a wild man! Only a wild man knows where all the hotties hang out. And only a wild man can handle hot brains as well as hot bodies!

And that's not even mentioning Colombian tantric sex.... no perhaps that is not appropriate for PBH.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

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dwmte says on Apr 25, 2005, 07:57:

l'arte tantrique.... a la colombia....hmmmmm

sounds dilectable, very dilectable pray, speak thee more....

does it look like it sounds? or more? pray, tell me?

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Crazy4Cali says on Apr 25, 2005, 09:08:

It's not always the middle-aged white guy.... Finally an entertaining and articulate discussion on this subject....

I thought it was interesting that DQ pointed out. "In the sizable studies we've conducted in various parts of the world, we have noticed a direct coorealation between the relative power of women in a society and the incidence of HIV tranmission."

In otherwords, the local society and customs are primarily responsible for the plight of the local population, namely the female portion of that population. The laws, the customs, the local law enforcement (or lack thereof) and the economic condtions seem to contribute far more to these women's dire situation than a few sex-craved white guys as la profesora would have us believe. In fact I'd bet there are more Japanese "sex-tourists" in Thailand than gringos.

Of course, just because there are more locals than foreigners engaging in destructive or demeaning behavior does not excuse the foreigners who are taking advantage of the situation. Further, I'll grant you that the disproportionate wealth of the foreigners (e.g. the Japanese in Thailand or even Japan, for that matter) carries a correspondingly disproportionate influence. Nevertheless, the local people (and those concerned foreigners such as la profesora) should first look at the customs and laws that allow, if not encourage this situation, before wagging any fingers at the foreigners.

But in the end, my naive observation is that the local sex-industry in any country is a symptom of a much more difficult problem to solve and that is the one caused the economic and political conditions of the area. You can outlaw prostitution (not that doing so will necessarily make it disappear) but that won't necessarily improve life for the women, or the men, for that matter, in that area. If you make the social conditions such that the men don't need to stray and the economic conditions such that the women don't need to sell then there will be much less of a market for that particular service...Of course you'll be living in Nirvana...

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 09:29:

Before fools even the gods are silent. I'll leave you with this meditation in Spanish, by the Savadoreño poet Roque Dalton, which I will now overdose on before breaking open a nice bottle of Chilean red and playing a few boleros on my guitar.

I always have the last word, and the best. I've really said all I need to say, and will continue to post Spanish love poetry until you guys stop your nonsense. You just might learn something.

Amo tu desnudez

porque desnuda me bebes con los poros
como hace el agua cuando entre sus paredes me sumerjo.
Tu desnudez derriba con su calor los límites,
me abre todas las puertas para que te adivine,
me toma de la mano como un niño perdido
que en ti dejara quietas su edad y sus preguntas.
Tu piel dulce y salobre que respiro y que sorbo
pasa a ser mi universo, el credo que me nutre,
la aromática lámpara que alzo estando ciego
cuando junto a las sombras los deseos me ladran.
Cuando te me desnudas con los ojos cerrados
cabes en una copa vecina de mi lengua,
cabes entre mis manos como el pan necesario,
cabes bajo mi cuerpo más cabal que su sombra.
El día en que te mueras te enterraré desnuda
para que limpio sea tu reparto en la tierra,
para poder besarte la piel en los caminos,
trenzarte en cada río los cabellos dispersos.
El día en que te mueras te enterraré desnuda
como cuando naciste de nuevo entre mis piernas.

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doñaquixote says on Apr 25, 2005, 09:32:

By the way Cali ...
I agree with what you said, the last post was not meant for you. You probably don't need the poetry either.

Adios

DQ

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dwmte says on Apr 25, 2005, 10:14:

touche'..... boy, there's a whole lot of 'touche' in this thread...

i think it's the full moon...day before yesterday, we were arguing at home...and if that ain't dumb, i don't know what is.

it's like shittin where you sleep...si o no? grandpa said that that's the first law and we're so dumb, we break it.

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go2pr says on Apr 25, 2005, 10:22:

Right Mario But the worst is yet to come, wait she'll bring back to life Profesora and then we'll have two of them ...

lol

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doñaquixote says on Apr 26, 2005, 00:46:

Hark! The Philistines are upon us... ..fetch me my ass's jaw!

See this is the thanks I get for trying to increase the number of good lovers in the world. Hic! Pass me my guitar again! And the wine! Damn it all, have we only got augardiente and vile ron cana left? Mas! Mas! And damn them all to the seven circles of hell! Ai, for the sheep-gut and the salted song of the young Scottish maiden ..

What can a young lassie
What will a young lassie
What can a young lassie
Do with an old man?

Oh they're always complaining
The morning, and evening
We never can please them
Dae all that we can
He's lost his fulorum
He's got no dingdorum
Oh weary's the night
with a crazy old man...

Para un mejor amor!

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