My Colombian Girlfriend

daver says on Aug 19, 2004, 10:20:

Did her brothers pressure you into buying them shoes? Or did they just ask? Where their current shoes falling apart? Where her brothers kids, teenagers, adults?

What did she think of this?? Was it a bad experience?

I bought my fiances brother a t-shirt. I could see that he wanted it, and he kind of half asked me, but he is 11 years old, and I may have done a similar thing at that age. It was also well within my abilty to say no to him... I just didn't want to say no.

I mean, I could see her family needing money if someone is unable to work because of illness, or the want to visit the US and have no money for a plane ticket, but you should not be expected to be the cash cow for her family and buy them things. Geez, a wife is expensive enough...

Talk to your Colombiana about it... see what she has to say,

Dave

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madman says on Aug 19, 2004, 12:04:

I’m also a gringo with a Colombian girl friend. And she has never asked me for money but I have given her a little every once and a while. I’m no expert t but one thing I observed is Colombians families are closer and support each other. I could see them asking for a little money if one gets unemployed but the money they would need would be a very small amount.
Her brother wants a Yankees shirt, but he never asked for it my girl told me. I figure if I bring him a T-shirt it won’t hurt relations. I also made it very clear that I’m not a bank and on one is to ask for money. We agreed if her family needs money she must work to give it to them.

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fennell01 says on Aug 19, 2004, 19:49:

My girlfriends brothers I felt no pressure to buy them anything. They wrote me this letter in English, it was really nice calling me "our brother in law". The had OK shoes on their feet but I think they wanted to be "cool" with new Nike's. They asked me not to tell their sister so I have'nt. I know that her father rents the apartment that they live in and my girl shares a room with both brothers. I feel like the "rich gringo" rolling in with my rental car and video camera and I would like to help her family, but I imagine I will have many opportunities if we end up married. Right now I'm playing it cool, I dont mention my assets at home.

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T1 says on Aug 19, 2004, 23:38:

Recommended website? First, good luck to you and your girlfriend!

What was the recommended website? I've heard of people meeting people from Colombia on match.com

Thanks

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 20, 2004, 08:14:

No shortage of Colombianas on any of the dating sites, date.com, match.com, amigos.com etc. I highly recommend them if you are a gringo interested in learning Spanish and corresponding with some interesting women.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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fennell01 says on Aug 20, 2004, 08:47:

website Oddly enough the website is called sincere russian brides. there is a link that can take you to Latina women. There are great picture and good profiles. It is not a hoax. Almost every girl that I wrote to responded.

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LarsBrink says on Aug 20, 2004, 08:57:

Your gut feeling! Hi Fennell,

I guess that you have to go with your gut-feeling with the girl. Are you serious in the relationship and does she seem serious. It is a two-way street. If you are not serious about her she will most likely feel that and maybe 'use' you as well.

I do not have any personal experience with this. I'm married with a Colombian girl for 2½ years and we live together i Denmark right now. I have never felt any pressure to send tings, gifts or money to them.

Regards,

Lars Brink - colombia.dk - brink-christensen.dk

~ Lars Brink ~ www.colombia.dk ~

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beto el feo says on Aug 20, 2004, 09:54:

I think there is a little more to this question than just shoes. Depending on the families financial status you may be asked to do more in the future should you marry her.

My wife and i know that in the future, when her parents are too old to work, we will need to pitch in and help them financially. In fact we already do to some extent. My wifes other siblings will be helping the parents as well when the time comes.

I think from a north americans perspective this can be a little hard to take, since in most families here the parents have retirement savings and pensions and such.

Incidently, the fact that Colombian families help each other out so much is something I really admire about them.

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fennell01 says on Aug 21, 2004, 03:51:

Helping financially Should I marry her I would have no problem helping her family. I expect to. I am sure that I earn more in one day than her father, mother and brothers earn in a week. Their rent is $200 a month. My mortgage is $4000 a month. One of her goals in the future is to purchase an apartment home for her parents. I know that the family comes as part of the package...am I wrong?

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daver says on Aug 21, 2004, 10:30:

***My mortgage is $4000 a month***

hmmmm. I'm tempted to ask you for a pair of shoes now!! LOL!

Im glad that her brothers did not pressure you, it is better to give than to receive right?

Colombians are generally sincere, and I think your girlfriends family will be happy she has found a man with ecomonic stability and not be looking to cash in. You mentioned you will not mention your assets back home... you should not really let anyone know this in Colombia. You do not want to draw attention to yourself in this manner.

Dave

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pointofview says on Aug 21, 2004, 18:17:

Fennell01 No you are not wrong !!! It's called "sharing" and it will leave you with a good feeling if you can share your good fortune with others less fortunate. I still provide assistance for my ex-girlfriends family because I am so close to them and I am in a position to help them. I was able to provide the financial assistance for her partents to obtain political asylum in the USA even after she was not living with me. I can't think of a thing in my life that was more exciting than receiving the telephone call from the attorney that represented them and being advised that the court ruled in their favor granting them political asylum. Everyone in the court including the woman judge cried upon the judgment being entered because the case was so strong and such a moving story. I guess I also remember a young lady showing up at the RioNegro airport and paying for our taxicab fare to Medellin with CP$25.000 which was the last money she had until her next payday. Just maybe I made a difference in all of their lives and you could do the same. You will receive much more reward from sharing than you will ever give.

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fennell01 says on Aug 21, 2004, 18:40:

money and relatives Hey Guys, I was a little concerned about making her father feel uncomfortable. I never like to feel like "the big American with all the money". I would be uncomfortable if some young guy came into my house and started paying for everything, but then I work 60 hours a week, and I dont think there is a Colombian within 5km of my girlfriends house that works 30 hours per week, certainly not her father.

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pointofview says on Aug 22, 2004, 07:00:

Fennell01 - 30 hour weeks ? Dear Fennell:

Quote:

"I dont think there is a Colombian within 5km of my girlfriends house that works 30 hours per week, certainly not her father."

You must be in Columbia, USA and not Colombia as the Colombian households I know don't function (food, shelter, utilities and rent) without muliple people working the standard 48 hour week (or more).

As to the statement about paying "all the bills" I wasn't advocating that. No one ever ask me to pay anything (too much pride) but rather I offered to assist with things badly needed (when there was no other alternative) that made a difference like my my ex-girlfriends sister dropping out of the University because the family could no longer pay the tuition payments (she graduated with a degree) and immediately got a good paying job that she couldn't have without the degree.

As to the sponsor of the Nike shoes I think the "close" family knows where they came from as the two boys didn't suddenly print the money.

If you are really worried or bothered about the wisdom of spending US$50 on your new Colombian family then I would run back to Atlanta and give this adventure up. While you are sitting in Atlanta in your US$4,000 per month house eating three meals a day you can rest assured some members of your new family are not (eating three meals a day).

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Hunter says on Aug 22, 2004, 08:32:

pointofview Are you in Medellin at the moment.

Hunter

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pointofview says on Aug 22, 2004, 09:17:

Hola Hunter Please check your email. I sent you an email with some info.

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daver says on Aug 22, 2004, 11:31:

pointofview,

I would have to agree. My fiance is pulling in a 48 hour work week, and her dad runs a company and he is there over 50 hours a week. However, employees are usually salaried per month, and Colombia has a whole host of public holidays... many more than the 9 I get in Canada. So, I think it would even out to 40 hours with this in mind.

In my opinion, Colombians, on average, work very hard for very little money.

Dave

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fennell01 says on Aug 23, 2004, 10:35:

pointofview Never said that I was worried about spending $50. I was only concerned about beign a "big shot" and not respecting her father. As far as Colombians work ethics I can only speak from my experience. Both of her brothers 16, 18 do not work. When I was 10 I started cutting neighbors yards and shoveling snow(I lived in Pa). I have worked since.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 23, 2004, 11:54:

Fennell, you must be with an independently wealthy group of Colombians - the ones I know work far harder than the average American. My wife's life was pretty much work all week from dawn to dusk with a half day more on Saturday. That seems to be the norm.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Hunter says on Aug 23, 2004, 13:11:

pointofview and utopiacowboy, spent their time in Medellin, where as fennell01 was in Ctg.

After living in Medellin and Cartagena, I can say that there are a lot more people working in Medellin than Ctg, work may not be that easy to come by in Medellin, but it is far easier than finding it in Ctg, where there is no where near as many wealthy people and also no where near as much industry

Hunter

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daver says on Aug 23, 2004, 13:21:

fennell,

I hear you about working as a teenager. My fiance told me it was not common at all for Colombians in school to have part time jobs. Either they are in school, or they are working. If you start working very young, its because you are not going to shcool anymore. I had a newpaper route at 12, cut grass and shoveled snow, and worked 2 long brutal years at Burger King before going to University. My parents always had money, but you really get looked down on in a middle class family if you spend your free time as a teen watching TV and playing sports. So, I got to make Whoppers for $6.25 an hour.

I saw a boy, probably 12, in Medellin, working full time at a tire repair shop. It was sad to see a boy that age, with tough, grizzled muscles working so hard. He obviously is not in school, and I immagine his life will be nothing but hard labour.

Dave

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pointofview says on Aug 23, 2004, 13:58:

fennell01 I guess that I am older than most having seen too much in my lifetime which has made me defensive of Colombian people and their struggle. Yes, I started working at an early age just like you did saving every penny so I could go into business someday. If you spend more time in Colombia the picture will become a little clearer to you.

With unemployment reaching almost 20% and between 40-50% of the employed earning at or near the minimum wage (US$150/mo) life for most people in Colombia is a real struggle. In my opinion, I think post WWII (era) life in the USA would not be much different than current day life for the past 15 years in Colombia for 50% of the population (or more). Immediately following the post WWII era in the USA there were no food stamp programs, no housing assistance programs, no unemployment benefit programs, no liquidity, no long term loans for housing or businesses and not the wide assortment of current state or federal assistance for low income persons in the USA. The USA literally borrowed and spent its way to the current day prosperity which it is now being distroyed by ourselves. It was FDR and his policies after the great depression that jump started the USA economy and the economic momentum from WWII that provided the base to keep improving the standard of living for USA people. Now the world is competing for each USA job that can be performed offshore much cheaper and they are winning the battle.

That's Colombia today for the most part (maybe not quite that bad but a real struggle).

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think a child can legally work in Colombia (if they could find a job) until they are 18 years old. Sure they could find something to do to earn a little money (damn little). There is such an over-supply of labor that the companies cherry pick the best, the youngest and most able discarding the older employees like toilet paper. If you are Colombian and haven't found a stable job by the time you are 40 (I think 35) you are considered "past your prime" and finding a job becomes much more difficult with each advancing year. I won't go into the issue of skin color or disabilities in job placement except to say that it makes me sick everytime I think of it. Me, I want to hire grey hair, brains, stability, and rainbow colored people with experienced judgment that comes with age but not so in Colombia. There is exceptions to everything I have said so others can weigh in and correct my mistakes but this is part of what is behind the surface

Your girlfriends brothers (at ages 16 & 18) should not have asked for Nike shoes on an unsolicited basis. If they expressed an interest in the shoes (but didn't ask) and you bought them sure that works. If they were much younger then that's Ok if they asked because they don't know better.

I think if you spend more time in Colombia you will appreciate just how difficult life is here for the majority of people and why sharing in their lives is so important because they don't have the big federal government to provide much for them like we do in the USA for those that need assistance.

It's like the old saying if your neighbor lost his or her job it's a recession but if you lost your job it's a depression.

You will come to appreciate your new family and everything about them after all what is the different between biological or non-biological relatives. It depends upon something called conditional or non-conditional love if you can find it or can give it. It's out there somewhere for everyone (sometimes forever and sometimes not).

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fennell01 says on Aug 24, 2004, 09:51:

to pointofview Thanks for the awsome response. Guys like you are making this so much easier. I am about to send money for my girlfriends trip to Bogota to turn in her forms and get her visa. Any ideas on a dollar amount? She lives in Cartagena. Also can I just send her a check from my account in the states? I do not want to send cash. Thanks.

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pointofview says on Aug 24, 2004, 13:02:

fennell01 Thanks for taking my responses the right way as they were (right or wrong) from my heart. Find out where her bank account is and check out www.viamericas.com which can do direct transfers right into her account. Also check other posts on this subject because it has been well discussed by some other more creative people that me. Small sums of money are not too bad by viamericas but larger sums get more pricey in terms of cost. You can wire transfer (larger sums) money to her but it's an envolved process in her retriving it and getting it deposited. Some people use Western Union or other services but sending her a check drawn on a USA bank won't work in her lifetime. Other people have sent a small credit or debit card in their girlfriends name with small limits or deposits and refilled the tank when it gets low.

I use two Colombian banks like Conavi and BanColombia and you can move currency back and forth between the two or to accounts or other accounts set up to receive the transfers. You can do it from your computer through the internet from anywhere in the world in a few keystrokes.

I think you know that you are not just marrying a Colombian woman but also the Colombian culture. You won't want to change the woman and try to remove the culture as you won't like what comes out the other end (been there done that). You know all this already and good luck.

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fennell01 says on Aug 26, 2004, 22:16:

Am I dreaming I have these really nice conversations and emails with my girlfriend about visiting me in Atlanta. We talk about my family and where we are going to go, but I cant help but feel its not gonna happen any time soon. I have read most of the posts including"I was just in Bogota and they are not giving tourist visas", and I am concerned. I have a lawyer and we started the process but there is nothing I can do in EU to stop Bogota from looking at this beautiful girl and saying "no way chica". She would never abandon her family and will return but I could see the embassy people saying "why would this girl return to live in apartment as big as her boyfriends kitchen"?

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 27, 2004, 09:12:

Yes, you are dreaming. She probably has a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a tourist visa. Of course, having said that, someone has to win every once in a while and who knows, it may be her. I would be working on Plan B if I were you.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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fennell01 says on Aug 27, 2004, 15:56:

Plan B Suggestions for plan B? I am buying a house in Costa Rica and I thought maybe I could get her there...but I dont know if that would help. I intend to return to Cartagena in two months, but we are not ready to get married. Unlike many other guys on this site I want to get to know her first(call me crazy). Also I am concerned about her liking Atlanta. I do work, granted for myself, but I need to leave home usually for about 5hours a day, I worry about her getting lonely in my three story 5 bedroom house. I only point out the size because her apartment that she shares with her entire family is smaller than my kitchen....

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pointofview says on Aug 29, 2004, 10:42:

fennell01 Dear Fennell:

I enjoy reading your posts but you are either very young or have had this more substanial standard of living only a short time. First of all any mature couple looks forward to 5 hours of separation during the day and needs that in there life. Your girlfriend (or wife) high point of the day would be when you leave for 5 hours and she can more fully relax, make her personal phone calls and email.

If you think that "any" quality woman would be so overwelmed by your house that she would stay with you forever, then I think you have never been married or had a serious relationship with any woman. Money and material things do not convert any person (man or woman) to blind servitude. It does not replace love, mutual respect, committment and the unconditional feelings that two people have with each other that binds them together (for whatever duration that the feelings may exist). The truth is there is probably more love in your girlfriends little apartment than you might ever hope would exist in your big house. Quit dwelling on your material assets and start thinking about what you are saying and doing because you are living and thinking in dream world. If you are serious about trying this then find a Colombian woman with a US Visa, well traveled, speaks fluent english and invite her for a visit. It is just as easy to find that woman than another.

I went through all this (more than once) years ago to find out that women (despite what you think) have a mind of their own. My first Colombian girlfriend turned her back on a lot more than you are talking about so that she could live her dreams of self importance. She wanted to work and earn her own money with her own hands and mind and not receive US$2,000 a month from me and walked away from that. Her kitchens (more than one) were bigger than your house. We are the best of friends and still see each other all the time sharing the responsibilities of her Colombian son (my step-son). By the way she still has all the money I shared with her and will graduate this year with a degree in in education from a USA University and the tools enabling her to pursue all her dreams. More importantly she has my respect and continuing committment to make it happen for her even through she doesn't live in my fancy house. She doesn't need a man with a fancy house to make things happen for her, she's paisa and walking over any obstructions that get in her way to make things happen.

You can't always choose who you fall in love with but sometimes it makes more sense to think about where you want to be (man or woman) after the process is over before you begin the selection and sorting. Unfortunate as it is, not everyone of us is the same, with the same goals, mindset and values. We all beat to a different drummer moving different directions with different ideas other wise the divorce rate wouldn't be 60% in the USA.

My girlfriends stated goal from the beginning of our relationship was to obtain a good job and career in the USA and mine was to live in Colombia. Neither of us was listening that well to each other. I live in Colombia and she lives in the USA with both of us pursing the goals we told each other from the beginning (5 1/2 years ago).

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fennell01 says on Aug 29, 2004, 14:59:

Just asked for help pointofview I want you to know that I appreciate you comments as I am sure all open-minded folks on this site do. It sounds as though you are older and wiser than I, but I detect,at times, a bit of bitterness.
How would you know how big my house is?(and who cares)? I never claimed to be a mature couple, our combined age is 49. I never said either of us is materialistic. I have never mentioned my assets to her or her family. You think I dont know money cant replace love? Read my emails, I care about my girl from my heart not form my billfold. One hypothesis of yours that you got 100% correct is her tiny home has more love than my big house..I am trying to change that...take care.fennell01

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