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Mr. Uribe kisses sweaty gringos' ass

Uribe's kisses intended to seal free trade deal
NEWSWEEK - October 24, 2007

A horde of sweating Americans airlifted deep into the Colombian jungle from Capitol Hill last week was treated to the sight of President Alvaro Uribe distributing kisses to small children.

Mr Uribe wanted the US congressmen and their entourages to see how peaceful the remote village of Bojayá had become.

Five years ago, a skirmish there between leftwing rebels and paramilitary gunmen left 119 civilians dead. Now Mr Uribe counts Bojayá as one of the success stories of his efforts to end a devastating, decades-long armed conflict in his country. It also helps soften Mr Uribe's poor image in the US, where his reputation has been marred byscandals linking his government with rightwing paramilitary groups.

Those scandals are damaging the chances of a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) between Colombia and the US being approved before the 2008 US presidential elections, even though a similar agreement with Peru is expected to be passed this year.

That is a growing concern for Washington. Nicholas Burns, US undersecretary of state, warned on Monday that a failure to pass free trade deals in Peru, Panama and Colombia could "embolden" strident critics of the US government including Hugo Chávez, the Venezuelan president.

"If it doesn't pass, someone like Chávez, if not Chávez himself, is undoubtedly going to make the argument that the United States doesn't take care of its friends . . . and we wish not to give that argument to our adversaries in the region," he said.

According to Vicente Torrijos, a political analyst in Bogotá, the US administration's closest ally in Latin America is already strengthening ties with its neighbours in the Andean region and Central America, as well as with Europe.

The links with Venezuela could be most troubling for Washington. Mr Uribe has signed up to the Bank of the South, a Caracas-backed financing institution due to be inaugurated next week, whose express aim is to replace Washington-based multilateral institutions in the region.

Mr Uribe has also signed energy deals with Venezuela and sought Mr Chávez's help to revive US-financed efforts to end the conflict with leftwing rebels, the Farc, by mediating negotiations for a hostage exchange.

Mr Torrijos says Mr Uribe's improving relations with Mr Chávez are part of the broader attempt to increase regional ties and have been beneficial for both countries. "Uribe realises that it is time to diversify strategic relations. He is a realist," he says, pointing out that Mr Bush's term is coming to an end.

But Washington's concerns have led to a renewed push to gain support for the FTA, by taking congressmen to Colombia to see the progress made with the help of US funding. The delegates from the US Congress were also taken to Medellín, a city once riddled by drug-dealing, now no longer considered one of the most dangerous on the planet.

"What I heard two months ago was, 'forget it'," Carlos Gutierrez, US commerce secretary, told the Financial Times, referring to the prospects of the Colombia deal being approved in Congress. Last week he was on his second trip to the country since that assessment, and expected Susan Schwab, the trade negotiator, and others to lead more delegations soon.

"It's very easy to sit in an office in Washington and assume you know what's going on, simplifying what is a very, very complicated situation," he said.

Nonetheless, most Colombian businesses believe an approval of the FTA is out of the administration's hands and are bracing themselves for the likelihood they will not gain its benefits until after the 2008 election.

Hernando Gómez, Colombia's chief negotiator for the FTA, admitted: "We've hit a bad moment, now that US elections are approaching."

But he said the problems"are more to do with protectionist efforts and electoral interests than anything else".

Mr Gómez said the FTA with Peru could be approved soon. "This proves that there are many Democrats who are pro-trade, which means the deal should eventually go through."

By Medellin Traveler on Oct 24, 2007, 19:56 in Friendly Talkzone.

morphus says on Oct 25, 2007, 04:36:

I've seen Colombians sweat too.

dwmte7 says on Oct 25, 2007, 05:32:

morph...the average (poor) colombian doesn't sweat, he/she bleeds.

dwmte

morphus says on Oct 25, 2007, 06:20:

Oh well, at least they got nice weather and fresh fruits.

morphus says on Oct 25, 2007, 07:15:

You don't see Chavez giving Colombia billions of dollars. If Venezuela did'nt have all that oil they would be kissing gringo ass too.

miamimike says on Oct 25, 2007, 07:43:

gringoinbogota says on Thursday October 25th, 2007 3:12:

I hope the US is not worried about what Chavez thinks. This guy will be lucky to get through the year. Let alone next year. ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------GIB-They(pundits) said that about Chavz 5-6 years ago when that Coup d' etat was pulled on him; He's like a Bacteria spore, not only did he survive but he is stronger then ever,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Lcacique says on Oct 25, 2007, 12:47:

a previous comment:
"the average (poor) colombian doesn't sweat, he/she bleeds."

morph's response:
"Oh well, at least they got nice weather and fresh fruits."

What a piece of work...

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Lcacique says on Oct 25, 2007, 13:17:

The majority of the billions of dollars that the US gives to Colombia comes right back to US firms that build helicopters, weapons, high-tech intelligence equiptment, etc.

Is Evo "kissing gringo ass"? Is Castro "kissing gringo ass"? What a sophmoric comment...as if foreign nations should kiss gringo ass. Wow, your comments conjure up images of foreign leaders kneeling at the feet of the US administration as "Horst-Wessel-Lied" is blasted over loudspeakers.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

manINred says on Oct 25, 2007, 13:50:

I fail to see how this is Uribe kissing Estadounidense ass.

Medellin Traveler says on Oct 25, 2007, 14:31:

IT'S JUST AN ATTENTION GRABBING HEADLINE. THAT'S ALL FOLKS!!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Lcacique says on Oct 25, 2007, 15:22:

Good point manlNred. If anything, this is one of the few instances where he is not kissing up to the US.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

juancegomez says on Oct 25, 2007, 15:58:

Funny how you just like to type the most sensationalist sounding headlines when posting here in PBH, MT.

As for the actual article...

Kissing children or women isn't that rare among politicians, as far as I can tell, but it's not really my cup of tea (or coffee, I guess) ....

"Those scandals are damaging the chances of a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) between Colombia and the US being approved before the 2008 US presidential elections, even though a similar agreement with Peru is expected to be passed this year."

Last I heard, the single biggest complaint still is/was the killings of union leaders, not the "parapolitics" scandal in itself (which, ironically enough, would have been difficult to imagine in the first place, at least in its current form, if the government had not decided to negotiate with the paramilitaries and lead them to an imperfect yet ongoing judicial process). Trying to reinterpret and revise events that much is questionable, IMHO.

"Mr Uribe has also signed energy deals with Venezuela and sought Mr Chávez's help to revive US-financed efforts to end the conflict with leftwing rebels, the Farc, by mediating negotiations for a hostage exchange."

I don't recall that having anything to do with "US-financed efforts to end the conflict", but well...

"Mr Torrijos says Mr Uribe's improving relations with Mr Chávez are part of the broader attempt to increase regional ties and have been beneficial for both countries. "Uribe realises that it is time to diversify strategic relations. He is a realist," he says, pointing out that Mr Bush's term is coming to an end."

This is not new at all, however. He's been pretty realist towards Chávez, more often than not, for years now.

"But he said the problems"are more to do with protectionist efforts and electoral interests than anything else"."

That's certainly a big underlying factor, but it's certainly not the only one.

"Mr Gómez said the FTA with Peru could be approved soon. "This proves that there are many Democrats who are pro-trade, which means the deal should eventually go through.""

Maybe, but there's also speculation that, in order to avoid being seen as too "pro-free trade", Colombia's deal will still fall behind and even end up in limbo, taking advantage of the existence of other valid concerns as well, as the "necessary sacrifice" to approve Peru's and other deals.

Regardless of how good/bad those deals actually are for each of the parties involved, of course...but we'll see what happens.

BAQ says on Oct 26, 2007, 08:58:

We should not give Colombia ONE RED CENT. Shit, as much money as DIAN sucks in, Colombia has more than enough money to solve their throubles. The PROBLEM is that most of that money goes into the pockets of the political machines.

SCREW URIBE and the horse he rode in on. That SOB is only begging for money so he can have more of it to line his pockets with.

Semper Fidelis !

Chelesupercono says on Oct 26, 2007, 09:19:

Uribe is the best bet this country has.....naive Americans are always looking for the HONEST Politician in Latin America.....what complete and utter fantasy!!! Get over it........they do not exist.....it is the culture, always has been and always will be PERIOD!! Who are we to demand what we don't have in our own country? Worse we currently have what many rightfully consider to be a war criminal as President!!! This idiot has spent ONE TRILLION dollars on an illegal war, so whats the problem with giving Colombia $500 million to keep the coke out of American Noses? Typical dumb ass Americans that are a sleep at the wheel......

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

john_stark says on Oct 26, 2007, 11:02:

You got that right, dude. He is singlehandedly sinking the US economically and politically. It will take a generation to recover from the mess he's left. He was a wonderful governor of Texas but he clearly rose higher than his abilities.

Lcacique says on Oct 26, 2007, 16:00:

"naive Americans are always looking for the HONEST Politician in Latin America.....what complete and utter fantasy!!! Get over it........they do not exist.....it is the culture, always has been and always will be PERIOD!!"

I would argue that "Americans" have rarely looked for HONEST politicians in Latin America. More often than not they have created dishonest governments to suit US interests. I'm not saying that the "left" is more honest than the "right," I'm just stating the obvious: the US can careless about honesty.

As for claiming that they never will have honest governments in Latin America because their culture will somehow not allow for it (assuming of course that you could reduce all of these cultures into one single culture. Or are you saying the various cultures of Latin America are all equally flawed in the sense that they are incapable of producing honest leaders?). Can you please expand on that theory?

Bush makes Uribe look like a saint and a genius (though he is neither).

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Medellin Traveler says on Oct 27, 2007, 07:35:

Lcacique,

Great post.

Overall it seems if you want to be a successful politiian you have to be a crook. It's a prerequisite, in any country.

I will VOTE FOR BUSH, as the worst President in the history of the United States!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Medellin Traveler says on Oct 27, 2007, 07:36:

"Funny how you just like to type the most sensationalist sounding headlines when posting here in PBH, MT." - junacegomez

If any of my headlines seem sensationalist, it's only because I'm trying to have a little fun as well as trying to get your attention with a typical sensationalist attention grabbing headine, especially for the articles that seem to get everyone all worked up.

But... I do not "just like to type the most sensationalist sounding headlines."

See below... some of the headlines are downright boring!!

Investment property in Colombia

Skating in Medellin, Colombia

Hermano de Pablo Escobar dice que presidente Uribe era enemigo del capo

¿Mujeres de la Vida Facil?

Video tour of Medellin in Transformation (English!)

Walking and Talking in Medellin

Uribe and Escobar lovers?

Yet another great video... [Espanol]

Nicole Kidman to star in remake of Colombian HORROR FLICK

Did you lose your lengthy comment before it was posted?

Oliver Stone to produce "Escobar" movie

Is Medellin safer than your city? It may well be the case

Uribe comments threatens Maimi Herald Reporter's Life

Travelling to a Pueblo in Venecia en route to the finca high above

Medellin, Medellin, Medellin

Sorry Colombia. Mexico named as best place in the world to retire

"Love In The Time Of Cholera" The Movie

Did you purchase cocaine from Colombia's President Alvaro Uribe? It's possible if you have bought cocaine in the past

Video "Fiesta de las Flores" canciones

Video de conciones de Paisa

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Lcacique says on Oct 27, 2007, 12:29:

Again, most of the money that is given as aid to Colombia doesn't actually go to Colombia. It ends up back in the US because it is used to purchase helicopters, weapons, etc.

Sure the US gives Colombia money, but then our government orders that the money be spent buying US products. Colombia is just an outlet for our weapons industry. It shouldn't be called Plan Colombia, it should be called Plan Uncle Sam.

Anyway, what does the US government care about throwing money at Colombia. It's not their money. It is the citizenry that is paying for it. If anything, many of them profit from it because of their ties to Dyncorp, Sikorsky, Bell Helicopters, etc.

Bush should get down on his knees, pucker up, and kiss Uribe's ass. The US military-industrial complex would take a severe hit if it wasn't for Colombia.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Tinto (Moderator) says on Oct 27, 2007, 15:05:

Lcacique - a few hundred million dollars a year is a drop in the bucket to the U.S. defense industry. Plan Colombia (which in recent years has provided far less hardware than you might think) could disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't make much difference.

Lcacique says on Oct 27, 2007, 17:11:

Tinto - in part I agree with you. It may represent a drop in the bucket, but I would argue that it is a drop that none of the companies involved want to lose. Their lobbyists are always the loudest supporters of Plan Colombia. Obviously, it makes a difference to them whether or not we continue to send aid considering they are in the game to make money.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Lcacique says on Oct 27, 2007, 17:15:

Besides, I'm just countering the ethnocentric views that are posted so often on PBH. The idea that the government of Colombia should bow down to the US is ridiculous, offensive and completely illogical.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Medellin Traveler says on Oct 28, 2007, 07:25:

"The idea that the government of Colombia should bow down to the US is ridiculous, offensive and completely illogical." - Lcacique

Agree. they have all that cocaine money that they could always use when necessary. :)

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

juancegomez says on Oct 28, 2007, 09:24:

MT: I know not all your headlines are like that, I'm not suggesting such a thing, just noticing that there's a bit of a trend there. You're free to continue doing so, obviously, if you wish...

Lcacique: Claiming that there's something inherently "cultural" about honesty and other positive values is pretty flawed in my book.

There may be some aspects of a given culture that may promote honesty of dishonesty, but just like each culture has its own nuances and complexities, each person is different and makes individual choices. In the end, Latin America is no more "incapable" of producing "honest" leaders than any other region, and even "honest" leaders per se have their own flaws (not to mention that there are degrees of honesty/dishonesty, both here and abroad).

I also tend to agree about your point about where most of the aid resources (not just in terms of money) ultimately ends up....but rather than hardware or equipment alone making up the bulk of it, a lot gets spent on contractors and other services these days, including the fumigation program and its multiple tentacles.

In fact, something like half of last year's aid package apparently was spent on this kind of thing, if I recall correctly.

Lcacique says on Oct 28, 2007, 12:54:

juancegomez: That was not my claim, it was chelesupercono's claim. I think that it is ridiculous. However, I was hoping that he would expand on it. I just wanted to see how far he would take his theory, which to me appears to be ethnocentric and ignorant. I would also point out that it is not just Latin America that has struggled to find "honest" leaders, but all nations have had the same struggle. It is more apparent in "developing countries" because of the circumstances of those countries.

I would add that the US is not immune to this problem: dishonesty and corruption are and always have been commonplace in "American" politics. However, it is natural for a people to look at their own government less critically because they want to believe that their government is looking out for their best interests. They want to believe all of the crap that they swallowed in grade school history classes, all of the stuff their parents told them, shrugging off countless examples that contradict what they have been indoctrinated to believe as rare cases that happened a long time ago.

I agree with you, juancegomez.

I just think it is stupid to claim that Uribe should kiss gringo ass. The idea that a country recieving aid should be subservient to the aid giving country is childish.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

manINred says on Oct 28, 2007, 19:16:

It's a ridiculously childish notion Lcacique, fully agreed on the foreign aid front. I hate that sort of self-righteousness. I understood that you weren't making the cultural argument. The cultural argument in Latin America (in terms of development) is very flawed.

Lcacique says on Oct 28, 2007, 23:18:

When people reduce all of Latin America to one culture, they completely overlook the fact that there are extreme differences between many of the countries with respect to their cultures, histories, peoples, etc. Argentina is quite different from Brasil. Both are very different from Colombia. What about Bolivia and Paraguay? Do they have a lot in common with Uruguay? Grouping all Latin American cultures together and saying that it is because of some inherent trait found in this singular culture that Latin America cannot find an honest politician is delusional.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Chelesupercono says on Oct 29, 2007, 10:08:

I am not reducing all of Latin America down to one culture....I am saying that the one aspect of the culture I have seen, been a victim of and sometimes utilized for my own gain, is the culture of corruption! True, there is corruption all over the world, the U.S. included. However, I am talking about everyday in your face corruption, something most Americans never in their lives ever know...how many Americans have ever bribed a Cop? Bought a Drivers License, Gun Permit, paid off a Judge? It is the same in most Third World countries around the world, I have seen it in Asia and Africa. How many Americans have ever paid a Lawyer to destroy a Property Lien so they could illegally sell their house? If even 25% of the people on this site have lived and done business in Latin America they would know what I am talking about.......the rest I think are just tourist that don't know jack shit about what they are talking about......maybe read some more books.....

And yes, I do agree with you that Americans often look for and produce the most violent and corrupt of dictators, but that is not the spoon fed rhetoric that the American public gets.....oh no, the current Religious Right Dictator we have in power now is on the 21st Century Crusade to bring Democracy to ALL THE WORLD !!!! All based on AMERICAN VALUES.... what a load of crap! We use our money to buy friends and that is now what the rest of the world thinks about us, because without the cash they would all tell us to take our GOLDEN ARCHES and ram them up our asses !!!

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

john_stark says on Oct 29, 2007, 21:58:

Good post, dude.

Chelesupercono says on Oct 31, 2007, 19:20:

Well, Lcacique......I have responded....care to continue...or too much reality for you?

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

Lcacique says on Nov 2, 2007, 13:01:

chele: actually, I'm quite busy with school; however, i must admit after reading your original post, I didn't give you enough credit. In actuality, I think we agree for the most part and I was unfairly critical of your opinion. The culture thing still rubs me the wrong way, but you have a point in that the institutions of the countries under discussion are at least partially a reflection of certain aspects of the culture.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

poco says on Nov 2, 2007, 14:11:

Quote: Sure the US gives Colombia money, but then our government orders that the money be spent buying US products. Colombia is just an outlet for our weapons industry. It shouldn't be called Plan Colombia, it should be called Plan Uncle Sam.

Did you ever determine an average percentage of money spent with the weapons industry in the U.S.and WHEN?

Do you, are anyone else here have reliable data on where the money is spent?

Talked to anyone in the Military or Police lately?

Still confused about property rights in Colombia?

Done anything to assist anyone in Colombia lately?

Did you live in Colombia before and during the Uribe administration?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Lcacique says on Nov 2, 2007, 17:17:

poco: God I've missed you!!!

"Did you ever determine an average percentage of money spent with the weapons industry in the U.S.and WHEN?"

Your wording here is a little strange. If you are asking me whether or not I've checked out how much the US spends on weapons, no I have not. I do not know the exact number. However, I think it is safe to say that it is a ridiculously high amount (I heard at one time that we spend more on weapons than the next ten countries combined). If you are insinuating that because the US spends a ton on the weapons industry it wouldn't matter if those industries lost their contracts with Colombia, I think you are wrong. Firms generally do not like losing trading partners and missing out on profits.

"Do you, are anyone else here have reliable data on where the money is spent?"

Umm...I think the State Department has kept pretty good tabs on how much is earmarked for military/police spending. If anything they are probably skewed in the opposite direction.

"Talked to anyone in the Military or Police lately?"

I have friends on both sides of the pond that are in the military as well as family members. Yes, I even speak with them.

"Still confused about property rights in Colombia?"

I'll refer you to Gaitán on that one my friend.

"Done anything to assist anyone in Colombia lately?"

If sending money and medicine counts, yes.

"Did you live in Colombia before and during the Uribe administration?"

No, but I have plenty of friends that have lived through both periods: gringos y colombianos, conservadores y liberales...

Many of the questions you've asked have nothing to do with my comment that you quoted. But feel free to ask...

poco: instead of listing a whole bunch of questions or pointing everyone to articles or government links, why don't you speak your mind about the issue? Do you think Uribe should kiss gringo ass? Is the US interested in helping Colombia? What is the US interest in Colombia? Why spend so much money there instead of other Latin American countries? What are US goals there? Since you seem to be the expert on US/Colombia relations, please let me know.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Lcacique says on Nov 3, 2007, 13:12:

poco:
Are you copy and pasting some party rhetoric to a word file to repost here? I just want to know your opinion.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

Chelesupercono says on Nov 4, 2007, 05:34:

All things considered, the stupid, sweaty, obese Gringos should kiss Uribe's ass and don't stop there......we need him now more then ever!!!! I am very surprised that Chavez has not told Uribe: " hey amigo I will triple the amount of Gringo aid to Colombia if you tell the Gringos, go fuck yourself " And he could do it in heartbeat......at $93 a barrel....hell yes...

Then the coke would really flow to the U.S. and Colombia would be among the richest countries in the world......and the Gringos would get exactly what they deserve......

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......