Mr Bush.. please liberate Venezuela from Chavez

juancegomez says on Jan 14, 2005, 17:56:

I must totally disagree with your proposition Can't really say much else that hasn't been commented in the other threads on the subject.

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vladimiro says on Jan 14, 2005, 18:37:

Well.. Regean attacked Grenada immediately after the American military was forced to retreat from Lebenon. If the Americans have to beat a retreat from Iraq they may lash out at another country.

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expatriate says on Jan 14, 2005, 19:37:

It's all over for the US The US media is controlled by Israel, and the House and Senate are controlled by Israel. Don't try to find any logic in what the US does from now on.
Look at the US's President - he's not as smart as a retard, and was put there by vote manipulation. That country is now run by religious lunatics, and the people are too pussy to do anything about it, like the people from Chenya did.

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fzrdan says on Jan 14, 2005, 20:04:

"people are too pussy to do anything about it" "Why is the U.S. too chicken to do anything to this maniac?"

That is the funniest shit I have ever heard. Really. You think the people in the U.S. are a bunch of chickens and pussies? People who let their country go to shit and be ruled by dictators are the pussies. Bush, whether you like him or not, was elected by the people. Castro wasn't elected. Saddam wasn't elected. The people of those countries and other countries like them are the pussies because they don't do anything about it.

Maybe the millions of people coming to the U.S. for a better life every year should stay in their own country and fix their own problems. Ever think about that? Fix your own problems before you talk shit about others.

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jccg says on Jan 15, 2005, 07:44:

¿......? I thought this was about colombia? But, of course, just an ill informed person will say that about Chavez.

In Colombia the president gives political status to narco-mercenaries (AUC) and break human rigths. But as the news said Chaves is bad, then the people here said he is bad.

Lets ask yuorself a question, ¿if someone make an state-strake would the colombian people go to the streets and demand the presence of the legitimate president as happend with Chaves in Venezuela?, if Chaves is that bad to the people ¿why Venezuela's people (not burocracy) loves their president?

About what US people do with their president, just the same than any other people in the world. They are managed by the media.

"Bush, whether you like him or not, was elected by the people."

Actually,I prefere Colombian democracy, where the votes of the people count. In USA, only electoral votes count. But wherever, the people in any country vote like sombies for the one with more propaganda.

Democracy is a peoples responsability, not to vote, but to be actively involve in the governamental decisions of your city and countri.


It was just an opinion....

This is just the true!!

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examerican says on Jan 15, 2005, 08:09:

US Corporation of American, or, Crime Incorporated You're right; The US government is manipulated, but not just by Jews or any other specific race, but by world corporate or banking interest that recognize an opportunity to make soaring profits, usually at the American taxpayer's expense. America is the land of the free... freedom to come in, set up business, and steal from the public (taxpayers) without paying taxes in return. Look at Haliburton... just one example of the out of control corruption.

Congress is controlled by special interest groups that manipulate (bribe) lawmakers into changing rules that benefit the heads of corporations but screw everyone else. America is owned and operated by economic terrorists. These fellows don't need to blow up buildings to get their way, they just manipulate American law and accounting books to the tune of trillions of dollars in shareholder money. They destabalize American and world economy for greed, and all in the name of "patriotism." Look at the industry that has developed around "homeland security." It leads one to suspect that the terrorism on US soil was masterminded by Americans... CEOs and Board memmbers who recognized big profit a million miles away. They ransack the very companies they are entrusted to pilot through stormy weather when, in truth, they cuased the stormy weather, and they don't give a damn about saving the ship. They amass all they can, then steer the ship into an iceberg and sail away on private helicopters as the ship sinks and the passengers die. Then, ironically, they are rewarded with large comensation packages and celebrated by Wall Street as "shrew and savvy execs that really know how to fix the bottom line."

Why isn't our predident and Congressional leaders doing anything about it? Because they are all "pigs at the trough". If you want to read a very good book about why the US is crumbling, read Arianna Huffington's Pigs at the Trough. It's an exposee about corporate and governmental greed and scandal. Bring a bag when you read it, though, because you'll be sick...

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 16, 2005, 22:31:

Junruh and examerican Do you think you check your anti-semitic pontificating at the door. There is no use for this here.

Predjudice of any kind is undesirable and reflects poorly upon yourselves..

If I see this again, I will report this to Peter, I feel reasonably confident he shares my sentiments.

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umm says on Jan 16, 2005, 22:38:

Still, its not all antisemitic, much in the USA is really controlled by the jews. And just writing that is not antisemitic.
The USA can just not afford to be NOT bias because otherwise there will be a money problem.
UMM

UMM

My Forum

Gomezman5 says on Jan 16, 2005, 23:32:

UMM I sorry, I can't say I agree with you. Anytime you make an indictment against a group of people because of their race, ethnicity, or national origin, you are being inflamatory, and descriminatory in very much the same way that I as a Latino, living in a predominantly white/gringo society, do not appreciate stereotypes that are made against me as a Latino. I think you need to reconsider your position.

It is the type of statements that you and the above individuals made, that were made by Hitler, and his fellow Nazis, to untie Germanay against the Jews. The Holocaust did not just happen over night

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 16, 2005, 23:57:

The below is directly from Peter's rules..... "Be respectful of others’ sensitivities and backgrounds.

There is a wide range of cultures represented on this site. What might pass for “refreshingly direct� in your hometown may be horribly rude to someone from another state or nation."

In light of the above statement, it should be intuitively obvious to the most cassual of obsrvers, that negative stereotypes about people of a given religious sect, or from any one nation (Israel) should not be made. It serve no useful purpose but to do so.

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umm says on Jan 17, 2005, 00:01:

What do you think why the USA is never on the Palestinians side and always on Israels side even if the Israelies commit crimes against the Palestinians?
Money rules the world.

I dont want to say that the Palestinians are always right in what they are doing, but neither are the Israelis.

UMM

UMM

My Forum

Lionheart says on Jan 17, 2005, 00:10:

Please stick to constructive debates This site is not about bashing the USA - one way or the other - it is primarily about Colombia. Starting a discussion about whether the USA should help or stay out of a situation is one thing, but turning it into general accusations againt the USA, or any other nation, is not purpose of this forum.

Peter's rules are very simple, and I agree fully with them. Stay respectful towards other members, and be sensitive of their possible backgrounds. These can be race, religion, ethnics or any other cultural aspect.

If any feel a need to express these views, please go to other discussion boards, there are plenty out there for any taste.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 17, 2005, 00:23:

That is exactly my point.... Umm has decides to try and justify his blatantly anti semitic remarks agains the Jewish people, based on his perceptions of the politics of Israel.

As a Latino, and a Jew, I don't need to hear his or the 2 others above, who have chosen to make derogatory comments against Jews.

In closing, I would never make any kind of remark against any group of people because of their race, relgion, ethnicity, or nationality.

Such negative sterotypes serve no usefull purpose. I am repulsed by bigotry in any form

I have taken this matter to Peter directly and I hope he will be understanding of my concerns.

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umm says on Jan 17, 2005, 00:49:

I wrote in my last comment ISRAELIS which is not equal JEW..
see the difference?
Maybe you tell that the british royalty who just reinvented the swastik.

BTW, my uncle, who told me lots about those dirty businesses in the USA, has worked in the ministry of defense and knew a lot about international affairs and the USA. Peole at those high posts have often more insight with respect to those details if you like it or not.


UMM

UMM

My Forum

Gomezman5 says on Jan 17, 2005, 01:04:

I have nothing more to add I'm sorry I don't have as much insight as your uncle does.

I have contrubuted all I intend to contribute to this thread......
So you can have the last word.

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Lionheart says on Jan 17, 2005, 01:05:

umm Enough is enough now, please end your postings that have nothing to do with Colombia. You can express your worldviews elsewhere. You are walking on very thin ice with you latest remarks.

In case you wonder what the red star next to my name means: Peter has appointed me as moderator here. In my eyes that means I am here to help moderate debates so they stay without personal attacks or other discriminations. You have posted interesting and helpful information elsewhere here, please return to that style now.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 17, 2005, 01:19:

Thanks Lionheart I PM-d you regarding this and the other anti semetic threads above by Junruh and examerican....

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Lionheart says on Jan 17, 2005, 01:23:

To return to original post now U.S. Backs Colombia in Venezuela Dispute

Sun Jan 16,12:21 AM ET World - AP Latin America

By CARLOS GONZALEZ, Associated Press Writer

BOGOTA, Colombia - The United States sided Saturday with Colombia, its strongest ally in Latin America, over a growing rift between Venezuela and Colombia over Bogota's hiring of bounty hunters to capture a Marxist guerrilla in the Venezuelan capital.

*** I chopped out some known history here ***

"We support 100 percent the declarations from (Colombia's) presidential palace," U.S. Ambassador William Wood told reporters, referring to a statement from Uribe in which he defended the capture.

Wood said the FARC was correct when it sent out a statement after Granda's capture, asking Chavez to clarify Venezuela's position on whether FARC guerrillas and members of other leftist groups are permitted in the country. The FARC said Venezuela's government told Granda he could be in the country.

"For the first and probably last time we are in agreement with the FARC, which in its Dec. 30 communique asks the Venezuelan government to define its position," Wood said.

*** rest chopped off ***

I wonder if the US statements will put Chavez in a bind or not ... currently he is still ranting in speaches. Colombia, the FARC and the USA have put him on the spot to make official statements concerning his position regarding the FARC.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 17, 2005, 01:31:

Chaveaz has been flirting //// with the FARC since coming into office. Chavez has had this quasi/diplomatic relatiohsip with the FARC in the same way that he has also had a relatiohsip with Fidel.

I want to know how appropritate should it be for the US to support bounty hunters of Colombia to have the right to invade the soverign nation of venezuela? Is Bush supporting this type of activity just to needle Chavez?

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Lionheart says on Jan 17, 2005, 02:28:

more from Reuters Colombia Says Rebel Was Protected in Venezuela

Sun Jan 16, 2005 09:51 PM ET
By Hugh Bronstein and Pascal Fletcher

BOGOTA/CARACAS (Reuters) - A top Colombian guerrilla was protected by Venezuelan officials before his capture, an action that has triggered the worst dispute in years between the Andean countries, Colombia said on Sunday.

Far from apologizing for what Venezuela calls the illegal abduction of the rebel leader, Rodrigo Granda, from Caracas last month, Colombia upped the diplomatic ante by saying he was being sheltered in Venezuela.

"Colombia will provide to the Venezuelan government proof that officials of that country were protecting Granda," said a Colombian government communique. "The harboring of terrorists violates the sovereignty of Colombia because it increases the risk of the use of terror against its citizens."

In the statement, Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, a staunch ally of the United States, denied Venezuela's accusation that his government had bribed Venezuelan police to help with Granda's capture.

"Colombia pays informants for information leading to the capture of terrorists. It does not bribe. Venezuela must present proof of the alleged bribing of authorities," Uribe said.

Earlier on Sunday, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez criticized the United States for supporting Colombia in the dispute and accused Washington of trying to divide Latin America.

Chavez, who has recalled his ambassador from Bogota and frozen bilateral projects with Colombia, demanded again that Colombia apologize for paying Venezuelan soldiers to kidnap Granda, foreign relations chief of the Marxist FARC rebel group.

Granda was delivered to Colombia, where police announced his arrest.

"There is a crisis .... a crime was committed here and Venezuela's sovereignty was violated," Chavez said in a television broadcast. He invited Uribe to visit Venezuela to defuse the diplomatic row.

The dispute pits the leftist Chavez, a fierce critic of U.S. policies, against the conservative Uribe.

Venezuela is a major oil supplier to the United States.

Bogota and Washington call the FARC, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, a terrorist organization.
Chavez attacked the U.S. ambassador in Bogota, William Wood, for saying Washington supported "100 percent" Colombia's argument that Granda's capture was a legitimate action in the war against terrorism.

The Venezuelan leader said he believed Granda's kidnapping was part of attempts by "hegemonic, imperialist and divisionist interests" to torpedo his efforts to forge a Latin American alliance against U.S. trade and security polices.

"I don't have the slightest doubt that this act is part of a conspiracy strategy to block this integration process," said Chavez, who has denied U.S. and Colombian charges that he shelters the Colombian rebels.

"We try to unite and others try to divide us ... to block the real union of South America."

Chavez, first elected in 1998, stopped short of accusing the United States of direct involvement in Granda's kidnapping.

He said he was ready to meet Uribe for talks but rejected a Colombian proposal on Saturday to discuss it at a summit of Latin American leaders.

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 17, 2005, 04:32:

"much in the USA is really controlled by the jews. And just writing that is not antisemitic."

Alright, you all know I like to encourage debate, but remarks like this are not cool. I didn't delete it, but I don't want to see talk like this on this board. It's a difficult decision, and I know it's controversial, but it is a little too close to hate speech in my opinion. That's my final word. This thread is closed.

Poor but snappy

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