MOVING WITHIN 10 YEARS

umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 19:52:

be prepared for some paperwork.
here some info about the immigration to Colombia.

http://www.immigration-world.com/immigration/info-colombia-eng.shtml

This info has to be corrected. The required amount to invest in Colombia to get the investers visa is 100.000$ and not 50.000$
The conditions change every year. One day its easy to get in and the next day close to impossible.
If you belong to one of the counries which joined the "tratado de Schengen" then its even more difficult. Same for gringos.

UMM

My Forum

Gomezman5 says on Jan 11, 2005, 20:10:

WHY ??? 10 YEARS is too far in advance to predict if you really want to live there. As much as Colombia has offer, you have no idea what Colombia will be like 10 years from now. It could be better, or it could be worse. It could be much more expensicve as well. It's just to early to make predictions at this point.

How much do you really know about life in a quasi third world country?
Things don't work as efficiently and as quickly as they do in the US.
There is more red tape, more delays, and lesser accountability. It's one thing to go there on a vacation, it's another thing to live there.

You also have to think about your health situation, and your health insurance. Lots of people who retire from a job, will offer them health insurance coverage only within the geographical are where they were employed. It is often never good in another state. You definitly will not have coverage in another country. The same applies for health insurance coverage for medicines.

These are just a few issues to consider

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lpdiver says on Jan 11, 2005, 20:16:

Working at advanced age My wife tells me that Colombia is very ageist and a university is going to want a younger more energetic person. It suck I know as I am near you in age etc.

"cook some rice!"

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 11, 2005, 20:38:

Tinto What is an "Asian Tiger" ?
If you mean economically...that is a virtual impossibility....no where in the cards until the civil war is brought to an end with absolute certaintly. Corporations would never consider investing the mega millions necessary to be productive in a politically volatile enviornment like Colombia.

They prefer to invest in countries where communismn and quasi military rule is alive and well---like China. Why? Do you think IBM has to worry about hostages, kidnappings, and their hard earned investments being blown up anywhere near Bejing or Shanghi?

Colombia has a long way to go, before it can compete on that level

Stability, Stability, stability...that's the name of the game

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 11, 2005, 20:55:

Lionheart is dreaming--but that's ok It's nice to dream. It gives you a standard to aspire to. Honestly it does!!

Mexico has Maquilas, and they have done so well. And they are right on our (US) border. I'm supriesd that concept has not been expanded upon further south than Ciudad Juarez. Chihuahua is a big state, and certainly has room for expansion

But you know something, unfortunately, South America in general has been a flop! American and Euro corps could have gone in there on a broad scale long before they went to Asia and indonesia. They didn't. Lot of it had something to do with financial incentives that Asia offered, along with it's endless supply of skilled labor. Latin America could not compete in either respect.

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Lionheart says on Jan 11, 2005, 21:19:

The Latin Panther Stealth, power, silent death, not seen in the dark ...

I am keeping close tabs on how the Colombian high-tech is evolving. I will be able to be more accurate once I live there. I will keep all updated on this.

Another Chile? I doubt it from several aspects. Chile is well under control of mainly Spanish and then US and other European cooperations. They are in a head to head competition with Argentina on who is momma's favorite, working their asses off. The Colombian mentality does not lend itself to that kind of corporate USA mentality.

Another Afghanistan? I doubt it as well. I don't think the FARC or others would do well in international terrorism, probably eat them for lunch first when they arrive. There are some rumors, yes, but nothing of international impact. Besides that, Colombia is way more Westernized than Afghanistan, and also way too influenced by the Catholic Church. The Pope says hush, and they will hush.

Muddle along? I doubt it. Brazil has more internal problems in its economics and politics than Colombia has. It also lost out on becoming a high-tech power when the doors were open. Now they are struggling to satisfy their own markets. Mexico was sold out by corporate USA without creating their own development and production basis there, and the USA has moved to Asia now. The Mexican production plants are severely suffering now. Colombia has a more fresh approach by developing a lot on their own, fairly untouched by multinationals, who are afraid to loose their investments. International influence is in general more subtle. This is a great advantage for Colombia also financially - it has less to hand over to mother companies sucking them dry.

Chances of success? Colombia has big chances to have success within its own borders, in Latin America, and internationally. It has good resources to build upon, slowly but gradually. It will probably take 20-30 years to build, just using numbers it took Germany to rebuild after WWII, or other formally under-developed countries. As economic power evolves, so will the 3rd world status diminish. In general more stability will be noticed, corruption will die in favor of earning clean money. It has access to the Pacific and Atlantic within a few miles, so it has open doors to the rest of the world. It will take patience, but even within PBH you see more and more people posting that they wish to go to Colombia to create a business there. Many of these small companies in the 50s and 60s made Germany strong again, it can happen for Colombia as well.

Wait 10 years? No way in hell!

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 11, 2005, 21:31:

And the civil war Lionheart???? Colombia has already been coasting along since 1948 with it civil war..and with no end in site. All this is a pipe dream without bringing peace and stability to the region. My above thread says it all. The nonsense has to end and end with certainty.

Germany was a totally different situation. American was more concerned about rebuilding europe, and europe could not be built without rebuilding Germany. The allies destroyed a horrible regime, they could not just walk away and pretend Germany did not exist. And one more point about Germany. There was that wall that seperated the west from the USSR. The US needed a strong West German economy/society
to be able to keep close tabs on the USSR. In summary, europe has always been treated with kid gloves....The same reasons don't exist in Colombia

Again, no stability, no new investment !! Remember my words.

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Lionheart says on Jan 11, 2005, 22:55:

the civil war is overrated long-term It is actually stagnating ... slow decay is shown in the statistics. I presume the curve will turn out to be logarithmic. More and more people in Colombia are tired of it and are seeking new goals. I firmly believe it is just a matter of time now for it to even out. And this is without US influence. The changes are coming from a new strength growing within Colombia itself. This is the basis for my optimistic view. Why does only massive foreign investment guarantee growth? Short term maybe, but look also how often it has failed.

Gomez, on the surface many of your views look correct. I could write an essay on where you are wrong about Germany, there are more similarities than you assume. I did a 4 year research on globalization of the high-tech market, many of the results would surprise you, the current general perception of the market is highly US marketing biased. This is no wonder after the rise and fall of USA's own high-tech development and production. If you read European or Asian reports you will see a very different perception. The research I did was based on forecasting the global trends of high-tech over the next 10 years.

I could go into more detail about the Asian and other Latin American countries, into which direction they are evolving, and also the contra-evolution in Europe/ex-Russia should not be ignored when looking at the USA as former sole high-tech power. But I am worried this would go way beyond the purpose of the PBH forum here. I could continue working out details for comparison though, where Colombia's chances are compared to the rest of the world.

Tinto, your call on how much I can elaborate.

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Lionheart says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:16:

Food For Thought What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger.

This saying applies well to Colombia. 40 years of civil war have not managed to kill Colombia ... it still breathes healthy in many aspects. It shows an industrial growth and people believing in life. Other countries with this kind of history are near death or extinct, look at many African or Asian countries. For me this is proof to trust the Colombian people to grow stronger as time goes by. Colombia shines in comparison to Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia etc. Chile is a good example of what can happen once the chains are broken, and that wasn't very long ago.

I know I will be accused of wearing pink glasses here or smoking something weird. But who laughs last laughs best.

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fill says on Jan 12, 2005, 08:24:

colombia economy I have a thought...with the trade deficit in the US out of control, look at todays report for November, the American people could reject imports from China, if that happens, manufacturing in Central and South America could have an advantage. Colombia and a few others enjoy free trade with the US as a drug eradication program, almost everything manufactured in Colombia enters the US duty free. It also enjoys another tremendous advantage it's in the US time zone, I believe thats a big one. Fill

fill

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 12, 2005, 09:33:

Pink Glsses Lionheart? Try VERY PINK In theory what you say sounds great. But in practice, with all due respect Lionheart, you offer little proof to back your assertions.

"40 years of civil war have not managed to kill Colombia ... it still breathes healthy in many aspects. It shows an industrial growth and people believing in life."

"trust the Colombian people to grow stronger as time goes by."

Lionheart, these are just hopes, desires and aspirations.--Nothing more. And they are empty ones. Let's deal with some facts

1. An estimated %40 of the physical geography is being controlled by guerillas forces.
2. While kidnapping have gone down (presumably) Colombia is still at or near the very top of the list as one of the countries with the most kidnappings.
3. The government seems to be completely impotent in terms of their ability to deal with any of the kidnappings. Most are killed or are released after some negotiating directly with the guerilla kidnappers or in some cases, people escape.
4. This is still a country where freedom of expression is limited. A true free press is non existent. Colombia has more writer, and journalists living outside their country for fear if their lives, than any other country in the developed western world.
5. I have been hearing for so many years about, the "People will", and "inner desires", and that "Colombians will not tolerate" this much longer.....it sickens me. Peace has been just around the corner again and again and again. One step forward and to steps backwards. Friend of mine with big businesses and that are easily identifiable targets, are constantly getting threatening letters and phone calls threatening them with kidnapping. I only wish I knew some of you guys well enough so as to allow you to speak to them personally.

I am tired of this continued mantra of "touchy feely" words that lack substance and do nothing more than feed the raging tiger that is eating away at our Colombia. The billion, yes billions of dollars that have been lost from Colombia's economy, billions of which could have been available to help the lot of the ordinary Colombian that continues to live at or near poverty would have made a difference.

This is just another form of appeasement. And appeasement NEVER ends wars, or violence. Quite to the contrary it perpetrates it.

Sorry to be so adamant, but it does irritate me to see people in denial of reality....Although Lionheart....you’re a good person..nothing personal. OK?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 12, 2005, 11:15:

Elaborate as much as you wish... ...as long as there are some references to Colombia. Geez, if 285 posts get written about chicas in bikinis...



;-)

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beautifulbethy says on Jan 12, 2005, 11:32:

well i think colombia is a really intresting place and i appriciate that the comments here are honest. As a Brit i guess i know little of the life of a colombian national but its great to find out these views.

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Albatross says on Jan 12, 2005, 11:52:

Colombia and Germany ??? While it's true that Colombia may become more of an economic power in the future, it has little similarity with post-war Germany. The German mentality and the Colombian mentality are starkly different. German science and engineering were second to none during WWII. True, after the war, their infrastructure was in worse shape than Colombia's is now, but their talent and obsession with industry (along with the huge influx of money under The Marshall Plan) caused it to re-emerge as it did from the ashes of war into the de-facto leader of The European Union. I don't see this happening in Colombia. However, if they can stop killing each other, there is no reason that they cannot become more or less as successful as their neighbors.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 12, 2005, 13:08:

Albatross, I am in full agreement With what you wrote. Lionheart, was the one who made the suppossition that compared Colombia and Germany to begin with. I am suprised that Lionheart, being of German ancestry could even begin to copare the two nations. The German peoples , entire way of thinking is unlike any race that I know of. They are extremely dilignet, methodical, determined, and has a level of intellect that Colombia nor any other Latin America country for that matter, can rival.

Even the United States, barely compares to Germany. "German engineering" has always been admired by other countries and has over years, set the standard, for other to aspire to. Part of it I feel has to do with the tenacity of these people as a whole.

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Lionheart says on Jan 12, 2005, 13:30:

Colombia and Germany I'll get to explaining more in depth where I see parallels, I need to dig up and translate my resources, most are in German. While on the surface the general opinion about Germany is officially correct, in reality more happened behind the scenes that made Germany survive and re-build itself as it is now. It is within the behind the scenes movements where I see the parallels.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 12, 2005, 15:42:

Colombia is not going anywhere economically. The civil war is going to continue forever because the Colombian people lack the will to defeat the FARC and ELN. I suspect that a large segment of the population actually supports the guerillas but they live in dinky villages like Los Cedros where no one has any shoes and no one is polling them about what they think of the president. The middle and upper class try to pretend the war does not exist and tiptoe around it trying to live as normally as possible. The Colombian textile industry is going down the toilet. Coltejer can barely pay its employees. Sometimes they go for weeks without a paycheck and then the company makes up the arrears. The place is a disaster. You'd be better off in northern Mexico around Monterrey. Of course Mexico has its own problems.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 12, 2005, 16:15:

Yes, that's the one. I would have to deposit money in the account for my wife to draw on so she would be able to live until she got paid (it's ok, she's paying me back in services). I told her that an American company would not have been able to get away with something like that but hey, it's Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Jan 12, 2005, 18:15:

Utopiacowby Your above assesment is about the same I said to Lionheart above.
I have heard of being overly optimistic. But he takes optimism to a new level

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