Moving to Colombia? &c.

juancegomez says on Sep 7, 2007, 22:02:

Well, it's your call....though I think you should do enough prior research and then make a short visit without any particular urgency or need *first*, before making up your mind one way or another.

I think you'll find similarities to certain things in the U.S., but also a lot of differences, and you should be prepared for them.

Hard to predict what would happen in any specific case, as it all ultimately depends on the circumstances and luck...but Colombia is definitely not remotely as homogeneous as Japan, which means that you'll definitely see a greater variety in races, and of course an amount of racism to go along with it. Again, you can't exactly predict what will happen in any particular case, so this has to be pretty vague.

On the other hand, when foreigners get singled out it's usually positively ("gringo" is a pretty generic way to refer to foreigners, and can be used among friends with no problems...it doesn't have a specifically negative meaning, at least at this point)...except for, of course, misunderstandings or encounters with those individuals/criminals wanting to take advantage of you, for scams, robberies and so forth (including the small but always present risk of horrible things happening to you).

Which is why some local guidance/acquaintances, security precautions and a certain amount of Spanish language knowledge can go a long way. Not all the way up to immunity, but it can help.

I'm not sure what else I can tell you at this time of the night, but probably someone else can also contribute something of (probably better, I hope) use.

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peachybeechy says on Sep 7, 2007, 22:21:

Thanks, Juance! That actually helped. I didn't know that gringo was actually used positively there...I had thought that it carried negative connotations.

As for the Spanish language knowledge, I took it for five years, and still have a pretty nice working knowledge of it, though I'm bad with colloquialisms. As for acquaintances, do you know any social networking sites that are the best for communicating with people residing in Colombia, in addition to this site?

Haha, as for the trip-before-moving...I'll unabashedly come forth and claim that what had attracted me to this site (from expatexchange.com), was this part: poorbuthappy.com. *blushes...well, tries* It's true, though. :S

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juancegomez says on Sep 7, 2007, 23:01:

"Thanks, Juance! That actually helped. I didn't know that gringo was actually used positively there...I had thought that it carried negative connotations."

It's generic these days, so it's pretty much a matter of context. If someone calls you "gringo H.P.", that's obviously very negative...but a friend can easily say "mi amigo gringo John" and that's not meant to be bad at all.

"As for the Spanish language knowledge, I took it for five years, and still have a pretty nice working knowledge of it, though I'm bad with colloquialisms."

Good, but might want to look up a few of those then...I think there's a list here somewhere.

"As for acquaintances, do you know any social networking sites that are the best for communicating with people residing in Colombia, in addition to this site?"

Just this place and ColombianBlog.com , which are the English-speaking ones I frequent. Probably someone else can give you a few more though, I'd bet.

"Haha, as for the trip-before-moving...I'll unabashedly come forth and claim that what had attracted me to this site (from expatexchange.com), was this part: poorbuthappy.com. *blushes...well, tries* It's true, though. :S"

Well, that's life for you...think about it and make the choice that makes you happy.

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miamimike says on Sep 8, 2007, 01:51:

Peechybeechy--For many NorthAmericans, they do in fact feel insulted when referred to as Gringos. In the Colombian Newspapers, tell me how many times you see Americans referred to in the news as Gringos? If it was so correct and a widespread pratice, why aren't they using the Term?? I have yet to have any Latin friends, either in Colombia or Miami, to refer to me as "El Gringo",,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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juancegomez says on Sep 8, 2007, 09:38:

Maybe because newspapers try to be as formal as possible, trying to minimize the use of colloquial, informal terms, slang and so forth. No big deal there.

Consider too that some Americans even use the word "gringo" in their PBH usernames, mike, which should tell you something. I'm sure some don't like the word but, again, others do or at least have no issues with it.

It's not necessarily a correct term, depends on context, but it is quite widespread. It's not hard to check that out, you know. Can't say anything about you and your friends though.

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peachybeechy says on Sep 8, 2007, 14:07:

I can understand how some Americans would use "gringos" to refer to themselves, because the same thing happened in Japan with "gaijin". The newspapers in Japan would be formal also, so they wouldn't usually use "gaijin", but rather the more polite (I suppose) "gaikokujin".

Rubito, well I'm attracted to the urban/central areas. I've grown to be nothing short of vexed with suburban and outskirtish areas, since I lived in it for essentially 22 years of my life. However, I do have a tendency to venture off into places (usually, through discovering interesting places while I'm riding between two terminals on a given train line).

Thanks for all the information you've been providing, Juance. :)

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olga1512 says on Sep 8, 2007, 14:55:

Hi, I am a Colombian married to an English guy and live in the UK. I just came back from Colombian with my husband as all my friends and family referred to him as "Gringo" but that's a very loving term for him and he actually thinks is funny but in a nice way.
My husband was very well treated by everybody, people were very patient and understanding with his poor Spanish, actually he doesn't speak any at all. And he was offered a job to teach English even thought he does not speak Spanish.

I think you find racism every where in the world, you wouldn't beleive it but England has got a really bad record of racism, to the point of people being murdered just for being foreigners.

Colombia is not like that and we are very friendly people and foreigne rs are more than welcome to come and visit and stay aswell.

Perhaps you should give it a try and find out for your self. How about that?

Take care,

Olga

Life is beautiful if you have LOVE.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 8, 2007, 15:27:

Colombia has virtually NONE of the xenophobia you find in places like Japan. Particularly in the big cities like Bogota and Medellin, people are very accustomed to being around foreigners and, if anything, being a foreigner in Colombia gives you added cachet, not a negative.

That may be different in some FARC controlled jungle towns, but in most of Colombia being a foreigner is cool.

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miamimike says on Sep 8, 2007, 21:09:

Well the way I feel about terms like Gringo would be the same as referring to a Latino as a "Spic"! Would any Colombians take insult if I referred to them as Senor Spic? Senor Wetback? Or if the person was Italian, no problem with Senor Wap? I know my Polish Brother in Law went off on some one who called him a Pollack. I feel that people with an Education don't refer to others(or themselves) as Gringo, Nigga, ect. When they(northamericans) refer to themselves in such derogatory terms, it shows they don't hold themselves in a very High Opinion so this opens the door for others to refer to them in such an uncomplimentary manner. Shows a lack of Education. I never hear any Newscasters here in Miami, Spain, Colombia, Mexico ect refer to NorthAmericans as Gringos. That is what First and last names are for, lacking that, Ms, Mister, Mrs will suffice....If some newscasters refer to Northamericans on a routine basis I would like to see a link to that paper. Ditto for Foreign news stations. I listen to Univision regularly and Radio Caracol(1260 Miami)and I doubt I ever heard the Term Gringo used so I question how "Commonly" this term is used,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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christobeldawg says on Sep 8, 2007, 21:24:

I agree Miamimike. I feel generally that it is a negative slap. Not always, of course, as many don't know any better, but I don't particularly like it, as a North American visiting Colombia or other South American countries. I don't like to be thinged.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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eheheh says on Sep 9, 2007, 04:22:

Interesting post.I'm Cuban and spent my formative years in Canada, now living in the US.I've spent considerable time in Asia, Eastern Europe and both South and Central America.I've found the native Japanese and Colombians some of the most receptive in regard to forgeiners.I don't speak more than a handful of Japanese words and my Spanish is conversational at best...and that might be a stretch.

Astonishingly enough, when I go back to Cuba and I'm with my darkskinned friends, strangers and even some of my own family memebers make this gesture,tapping the forearm, that in North America would mean...'what time is it?' but what their saying is..'look at the skin color.'The funny thing is these people would be classified as black by NA standards, as am I.That said, the US and Canada(don't let anybody fool you) are THE, in my limited experience, the most racist,bigoted, discriminatory countries on the whole, as any I've spent time in.

I find your post facinating.... as you, I assume are caucasian(?)

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tomtom33 says on Sep 9, 2007, 07:24:

Mike, that's Wop as in "without papers."

Eh, guess you have never been to Medellin. The Paisa attitude toward people of color equals or exceeds anything in the US South of the 50's and 60's. And I have seen the same in Cartagena.

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danronian says on Sep 9, 2007, 07:49:

Good luck on your move here. Before moving here, I would first take a visit, personally investigate the schools here, and submit your resume to the schools you are interested in teaching at. Chances are, you will get a job offer, and they will want to get your paperwork by at the latest February, so that they can start on processing your Work visa (since some papers the school might need to hire another foriegn hire can take months to arrive).

Being here as a complete outsider (I came from rural PA), I see the racism here as ingrained in a person's mind. They do not call someone a racial name as an insult, but it is ingrained in their minds what they see fit and normal for a person of a particular race to do and how they would act.

In Colombia I also think the use of gringo isn't at all offensive, unless accompanied with an expletive. People also use things like negro or negra to refer to close friends here, so that is also something you have to take into consideration I believe.

I guess some could use the case that "spic" is not an acceptable way to refer to a person in the US. But I think that has a different connotation than gringo does here in Colombia. This is probably a word that rings differently for each person living in Colombia, so I am merely sharing my opinoin on the topic.

As for being profiled as a gringo....it will happen. It may not if you speak a little spanish with the taxi driver, and if you dress like a normal Colombian person, but the thing that usually gets me the gringo treatment is hearing me speaking in English with my Colombian girlfriend. I have been charged too much for many things because of this.

Good luck with your trip!

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miamimike says on Sep 9, 2007, 08:32:

tomtom33 says on Sunday September 9th, 2007 7:24:

Mike, that's Wop as in "without papers."

Eh, guess you have never been to Medellin. The Paisa attitude toward people of color equals or exceeds anything in the US South of the 50's and 60's. And I have seen the same in Cartagena.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom-No, as I mentioned in another concurrent post on PBH, I stated I have never been to Medellin to date. One of these days but not yet. I see the attitude you speak of in Bogota alive and well. I have friends of mine from Medellin here in Miami and I see their attitudes towards Haitians here in Miami. Like you say-they are in a time warp from the 50s-60s,,,For that Matter, I see the Racist attitude more ingrained in Miami Cubans, they are some of the most racist I have ever seen anywhere period,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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john_stark says on Sep 9, 2007, 08:48:

Some good comments. You really need to check it out yourself. You may be surprised.

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durito says on Sep 9, 2007, 19:04:

"Someone also mentioned that Americans aren't geographically stupid. Yes they are. When someone answers "Alaska"..."the District of Columbia"..."London"...when the question "What country would you like to visit most?" is asked, that is a sign of something right there. (Those were people in their upper teens/ twenties.)"


Based on some of the studies I've seen recently, I'd say we are extremely stupid geographically (not just Miss Teen South Carolina). Though I don't really have a frame of reference to compare it to. But, most Americans can't find Iraq on a map. I suppose it should be no surprise that so few have passports.

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RussianFred says on Sep 11, 2007, 00:16:

My best friend is Afro-American he ive in Colombia a feels very safe. Come enjoy!

Annual Drug Deaths: Tobacco: 395,000, Alcohol: 125,000, 'Legal' Drugs: 38,000, Illegal Drug Overdoses: 5,200, Marijuana: 0. Considering government subsidies of tobacco, just what is our government protecting us from in the drug war?--Ralph Nader

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