Moving to a Spanish-Speaking Country - Need Advice

Philly says on Jul 1, 2008, 07:07:

First, you need to get a work visa to stay anywhere for a long period of time. To do it right, the process is very long and tiring, I hope you have patience. Talk to me once you get situated. You can come here and look for a job, but most schools are reluctant to give out contracts for English teachers, it is easier to just pay by the hour so they do not have to pay your insurance and pension. There is a lot more to consider before you come here.

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Mononoke28 says on Jul 1, 2008, 07:46:

Have you ever visited any country in Latin America or Spain for that matter? I would highly recommend against moving to a place you don't know. You should go visit first, see if you like it or at least get a good vibe from it and then decide to move. It doesn't make sense to me making a decision to move to a place you don't know and don't even speak the language.

If you want to visit Colombia I would suggest starting with either Medellín or Bogotá. Those are pretty established cities where you won't feel too much out of place, especially in Bogotá.

Diana

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dthf90210 says on Jul 1, 2008, 10:07:

Yes, I am aware that I will need a Visa. The TEFL school I'm considering helps you with the job search etc. so that you are all set with a job placement before you depart the U.S. Yes, I am the adventurous type and have traveled to various countries throughout the world. As far as Latin America goes, I have been to various points in Mexico. I've traveled to Mexico (and other countries) many times. I have not yet been to Central, South America or Spain (although I have been to Europe). I would say I am an intermediate Spanish learner (actively studying), so I know enough to get by.

I have heard that the Spanish spoken in Bogota is some of the clearest there is. How does Bogota compare to Medellin, Barranquilla and Cali?

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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Philly says on Jul 1, 2008, 10:27:

Good luck, I do not think you will be coming to Colombia, most schools do not work like that from the experience I have had here. Why Colombia? you can go to sooooooooooo many other countries with a lot better pay and circumstances.

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dthf90210 says on Jul 1, 2008, 10:46:

I'm not married to the idea of Colombia. As for better pay, of course, the cost of living is a factor to be considered in relationship to the pay.

What city or cities would you recommend I look into and why?

From this post you wrote (see below), it sounds like you really like Colombia. I am confused. What city are you in?

"I am an American living in Colombia. I have a beautiful wife and daughter. Things could not be any better. Most of all the bad things you read about Colombia are not true. Yes, there are some situations that are dangerous, but what isn't dangerous aout life. I was born and raised in Phila., so living in Colombia is like living in heaven. I suggest that everyone should visit Colombia at least once."

OK, back to my Learning Spanish Like Crazy and FSI Spanish audio...

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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TobyBoy says on Jul 1, 2008, 12:57:

Colombia is the ideal destination for the serious Spanish language academic. Firstly, Colombia is world renowned for the high-caliber of its Spanish (in the interior of the country, especially Bogota). Colombia has the oldest academy of the language (La Academia de Colombia) in the Americas, and many linguists and philologists consider Colombian Spanish to be the best globally. Where Spain had a monarchy and dictatorship that prevented a thorough promulgation of compulsory education at a national level, Colombia, being the second oldest democracy in the world (after the USA) had programs to educate everyone, for a much longer period. In recent years, the Carbo y Cuervo Institute in Bogota even published the biggest multi-tome dictionary of the Spanish language and the King of Spain flew to Bogota to inaugurate it. In fact, Bogota has more bookstores and libraries per capita, then any other large city on the planet, is also of great significance. In fact, in 2007, Bogota was named by UNESCO the “Book Capital of the World.� Oh, and I should also mention that Bogota also has the most visited library in the world.

Last but not least, most of you do not know that Colombia was once dubbed the land of poets, as it has to this day, more poets per capita than any other nation. In fact, even their current president, Alvaro Uribe, closes many of his speeches with some poetic quote. It is important to note that Colombia is the second oldest democracy in the world (-or oldest one, if you no longer the USA to be one), a nation of great pluralism and art, which despite so much disinformation and twisted press about it, has its incredible capital of Bogota …now becoming the culture capital of the new world.

I personally would recommend the beautiful, high caliber (country-club-like) campus of “La Universidad de La Sabana,� located in the northern part of Bogota. As for income, for teaching, it is always relative. I am an American and I find quality of life in Colombia, far, far better than in the USA, and now even better than in France (where I have also lived a great deal). In afct I am permanently moving to Colombia, where despite the bad press, I actually feel safer. Good Luck to you!

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2008, 13:11:

A minor note: Colombia often claims the title of oldest continuous democracy in Latin America, but I've never seen them in the top five or ten list for oldest in the world They had a 'soft' dictatorship in the first decade of the 20th century and a military dictatorship following La Violencia and then 20 years of the National Front. If you count the National Front years as participatory democracy (some don't), then the system has been in place for about half a century. Also, governors (and I believe mayors) were appointed, not elected, until ~1991. They're far better off than most of their neighbors, but they're relative pups at democracy.

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Philly says on Jul 1, 2008, 13:52:

Yeah, what is good for me may not be good for you. I had a lot of downs before things got good. I do not know who you are or what kind of person you are. I am a survival, no matter what I am going to make it. Do you have that in you? Colombia is a different hustle then the United States, it took some getting use to. Everything is different, girls, work, etc. I had some people here to help me get on my feet, you will need the same. You can not come here trusting everyone, but you are going to need someone to trust in. Hey, I am only telling you how it is. I am sure everyone on this site can share with you some tough times.

Ps. the school situation is different here then other countries. Most schools higher people from off the streets, not through a service. Now, you can maybe get a job at an University through a service. I am only talking from my experiences and from what I have seen or been through. Oh, be prepared for the run around. In Colombia, your time is not important.

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dthf90210 says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:09:

That sounds like a Gatorade commercial -- "Is it in you?" My response is from a Nike commercial -- "Just do it!"

I'll be fine. I am used to the runaround and adapt quickly to different environments.

I have not found my ideal utopia, but Colombia sounds fantastic in many ways. Thanks for the above information everyone.

I'm also looking into Buenos Aires, San Jose (Costa Rica), DF, Honduras, Montevideo, Madrid, Caracas, Ecuador etc.

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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TobyBoy says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:34:

To Tinto's not so minor note: Colombia is NO pup at democracy. Every pluralistic society has had its challenges, the USA included. I respect your thoughts and obvious political leanings, but Colombia has in fact been a constitutional democracy for longer than any other nation on the planet, except the USA. The General who attempted to remain in power (-that you call a soft dictatorship) was originally called upon by Colombians to remove a bad president from office (as the much loved General was leaving the country). Colombian society did not tolerate him later wanting to stay in power, and a virtually bloodless transition occurred when General Pinilla resigned. In fact Colombia has NEVER had a dictatorship, and you can ask any historian in the world about that. What Colombia did implement, in order to protect itself from polarizations, was to allow for an elected oscillation of powers for its two traditional political parties (liberals and Conservatives). And yes, Governors where not elected for a long while, but that does not mean that you can also undermine the fact that the Colombian Congress has always been elected. The fact that you may have not heard before that Colombia is the second oldest democracy in the world does not mean that it is not (irrespective of my own academic credentials). One cannot trivialize a democracy that protects women’s rights, or children’s as much as Colombia does. …and you can research it for yourself with the United Nations. The USA still refuses to sign the UN International Convention of the Child to protect sweat-shops in Guam, etc). France has a very old constitution as well, but it does not even come close to Colombia’s. Did you know that in the USA we had 10 pre-constitutional presidents before George Washington? Real democracies do not alter history as much as ours (USA) has had a penchant to do. Did you know that Colombia is well ahead of the USA with regards to same-sex legal protections? Yep, Colombia became this year the first country in Latin America to provide same-sex legal rights (much like the French PACS) on a federal level. The Colombian democracy, currently undergoing a difficult but exemplary cleaning-of house is far from a novice democracy. On the contrary, despite the criminal insurgents (now principally financed by America’s insatiable drug-habit), Colombia has been an inspiration to many Latin Americans, and the Colombian people, with their dedication to protect democracy certainly deserve more respect from us. After all, it sure wasn’t Colombia that retained slavery upon the inauguration of their constitution like we did; Colombia gave the salves immediate freedom!

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:39:

Simon Bolivar proclaimed himself dictator, yet Colombia has never had a dictator? That only makes sense if you start counting after 1830 and ignore Reyes and Rojas.

There are a number of other issues/nits to pick above, including the fact that France has had about 10 constitutions in the last 200 years and their "very old constitution" dates from 1958. And while I realize every author/historian has their own take on things, from left, right, middle, official and amateur sources, most people will agree that Colombia had two military coups and one military dictatorship in the mid 1950s.

If Reyes, Rojas, the National Front, the numerous presidential terms that lasted from a few months to a year in the 1800s and the period around 1940 when one side refused to put up any candidates for office fits within a definition of a continuous democracy, I'd say that's a very generous definition.

No importa. Things are getting better and that's what matters.

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nueva york bombero says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:49:

I think Spain is best for you.....

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dthf90210 says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:54:

>> nueva york bombero says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:49: flag
>> I think Spain is best for you.....

What city and why? Madrid sounds appealing.

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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nueva york bombero says on Jul 1, 2008, 14:56:

I haven't made it there yet....it looks like a huge city....
I loved Sevilla. I'd like to make it back there soon.
The economy is good there....

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TobyBoy says on Jul 1, 2008, 15:31:

Tinto, thank you for bringing our piquant dialogue to a civilized closure. I am a polyglot historian and an architect that has seen and read a lot of bull over the years, and in many countries. All I know now, is that when I tabulate all the quality-of-life factors, and what a progressive democracy really is, I undoubtedly choose Colombia as my new home. Gosh, today I even feel safer in Colombia than in the USA -and please note that for future reference that I have said that, as I see further deterioration in the USA. Sure, Colombia is imperfect, but it is no surprise to me why Colombia just ranked third in the world as the happiest nation on the planet. ! En todo caso, gracias por su amabilidad!

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dthf90210 says on Jul 13, 2008, 12:56:

I appreciate the good advice everyone. Any particular area (and specific place perhaps) in Bogota that you would recommend I stay if I go there for a week or two? I'll be going there not just to study, but to enjoy myself. I'm a single guy in my 30s...

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 13, 2008, 13:23:

Montevideo, Uruguay is your best bet. You're completely deranged to be even thinking about Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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tomtom33 says on Jul 13, 2008, 13:47:

I guess you are now back, UC. This time I agree with you.

Of course I am deranged. So I live here.

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dthf90210 says on Jul 13, 2008, 14:44:

Why is that? Is the big bad FARC gonna come into the middle of Bogota and get me?

Also, what is Montevideo like, and what part would you recommend for me? I have heard good things about the place in general from a couple of people. Buenos Aires sounds appealing as well.

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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lpdiver says on Jul 13, 2008, 16:22:

If 90210 is any indication of your geographic location you could get your TEFL and work locally. I teach ESL locally for free and it is one of the best paying jobs I do.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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dthf90210 says on Jul 13, 2008, 21:28:

What do you mean, exactly?

- - - - - - - - -

If 90210 is any indication of your geographic location you could get your TEFL and work locally. I teach ESL locally for free and it is one of the best paying jobs I do.

"Ninguna mente extraordinaria está exenta de un toque de demencia." (Aristóteles)

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