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More good news!! Colombia is NO longer world's kidnapping capital!

Report: Mexico world's kidnapping king

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexico has overtaken Colombia and Brazil to become the world leader in reported kidnappings, a leading, private anti-crime group said Wednesday.

Investigators across the country reported 194 kidnappings from January through June, compared to 172 abductions registered during the same period by Colombian Defense Secretary officials and 169 reported kidnappings in Brazil, according to Jose Antonio Ortega, president of the Citizen Council for Public Safety.

"This is nothing to be proud of, it's an embarrassment," Ortega said at a news conference. "It's an embarrassment for authorities who have tried to convince us crime statistics are falling."

The vast majority of kidnappings in Mexico go unreported because of fears about police corruption and incompetence, and the possible involvement of authorities in many abductions. Often, family members of kidnapping victims fail to ask even presumably more-trustworthy federal authorities to investigate because of worries their loved ones could be killed during botched rescue attempts.

The reported number of kidnappings likely do not reflect the actual number of abductions in Colombia or Brazil either, as both countries have long struggled with corruption and mistrust of authorities similar to those in Mexico.

In a case so brazen that it shocked many in this crime-wary nation, a group of gunmen last month forced Argentina-born Ruben Omar Romano, the coach of the Mexican League's Cruz Azul soccer squad, from his BMW as he left the team's practice facility in southern Mexico City.

Romano's abduction has become indicative of how most kidnappings here go, however, with authorities in the capital pledging not to become directly involved because the coach's family has not sought their help.

Ortega's group obtained the tallies it released Wednesday by searching databases for kidnappings reported by police in Mexico City and each of the country's 31 states. To a total of 155 cases nationwide, officials added an extra 39 kidnappings that federal agents have said they were investigating.

Contacted Wednesday, Mexico's attorney general's office, which investigates kidnappings involving organized crime, offered no immediate comment on the independent report.

So far this year, federal prosecutors have received reports of 87 kidnappings, arrested 72 alleged kidnappers and fully dismantled 11 kidnapping organizations.

The Citizen Council for Public Safety, which organized a massive "march of silence" through the streets of Mexico City last summer to call attention to skyrocketing crime rates, said 76 reported kidnappings so far this year in the nation's capital mean that abductions per capita here outranked those reported in Bogota or Sao Paulo, the Colombian and Brazilian capitals.

It reported that 10 kidnap victims have died after being abducted in Mexico City since January, compared to 24 over the same period in Bogota, according to available statistics.

"To me it seems that Colombia has begun to get a handle on the situation because, in Colombia, crime is going down, kidnappings are going down, violence is going down, despite the fact they are at war," Ortega said.

A civil war pitting large guerrilla groups -- some financed by the cocaine trade -- against government forces has raged for 40 years in Colombia.

Ortega said that instead of working to put kidnappers behind bars and weed out the corrupt police officers and officials who protect them, Mexican officials preferred to point to incomplete statistics and insist that the crime rate has gone down.

"Things are very grave," he said. "The country is breaking down and there's no one in charge."

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/03/mex.kidnap.ap/index.html

By ColombianoX on Aug 3, 2005, 14:27 in Friendly Talkzone.

Peter (Moderator) says on May 8, 2003, 21:00:

RE: They're at it again This shows that their war is not against the government it's against the people of Colombia.

Que angustia!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030509/168/40ldh.html

Poor but snappy

Peter (Moderator) says on May 8, 2003, 21:00:

RE: They're at it again The FARC are not in any way "marxist rebels" any more than Stalin or Pol Pot were.

Poor but snappy

Peter (Moderator) says on May 9, 2003, 21:00:

RE: They're at it again (Written by R. M.)
Me one bomb closer to siding with the AUC!

Una bomba mas y estoy del lado del las AUC!

Poor but snappy

Lucia Rojas says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:38:

jejeje seems like everything is transferring to mexico.

I know that women driving alone in Mexico City after 11:00 pm..if stopped by the police.. are allowed by law, not to stop, for the police are such assh--- that they might actually rape her, or hurt her, or kidnapp her... Crazier than our little country no?

Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 14:49:

It gets better In mexico, if you rape a girl (as long as she's over TWELVE years of age) and they charge you, all you have to do to get the charges dropped is OFFER TO MARRY HER!!! At least, this is what my Mexican friends were telling me last night!

Gomezman5 says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:16:

Hey Rubiazo---now await a minute You cannot honestly believe that. Can you? First of all, I think you are confusing Mexico with one of those Middle Eastern countries.

Also, I have a question for you and good luck trying to answer it.
So you seem to think that a man can get out of criminal charges if asks the woman to marry him. So tell me Rubi. what if the woman that he rapes is already married? Try answering that one.

Como absurdo...?

Mario says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:27:

I'm not even going to go there on this one... what's the point.

ColombianoX says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:34:

Apparently news about Colombia becoming a safer nation is pointless for some people.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

Mario says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:40:

No CX That's not pointless at all in my opinion.

Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:42:

The million dollar question... Is Colombia becoming safer of is Mexico becoming more dangerous. Mmmm, relativity.

I love Uribe, I think he is doing a great job improving national safety. Sooner or later Colombia had to get better.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:44:

Colx.... y yo alla en Mexico aguantandome un par de Mexicanos que me la montaron por aquello de la droga y la inseguridad.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

ColombianoX says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:47:

"y yo alla en Mexico aguantandome un par de Mexicanos que me la montaron por aquello de la droga y la inseguridad."

El pez muere por la boca.

Saludes,

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

Colombiche says on Aug 3, 2005, 15:50:

Parece que si... Y yo precisamente me jacte cantandoselas en la cara. Se sintio tan rico..... uy!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Nora says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:02:

Even more good news http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3100

According to these guys there are actually 13 countries in the world more likely to fall apart than Colombia, e.g. Iraq, Congo and Afghanistan, so I guess that makes us even safer…

Sr Tertius says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:27:

Two things a. As I mentioned in another thread, check the per capita numbers (which is the standard statistic, not absolute numbers). Not too good for Colombia.

b. Never had a saying rang so true: "Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos".

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:41:

Mixed blessing I agree it's great news that kidnapping in Colombia has declined dramatically and very sad that it's on the increase in other countries.

There is still one big qualitative difference between kidnapping as manifested in places like Brazil and Mexico and what happens here. The difference is that there, most kidnappings are over in a couple days, maybe a month at most. Here, as well all know, it's all too common for victims to be held for months and years.

BAQ says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:54:

BIG difference If you look at the STATISTICS, it would seem Mexico is number one, HOWEVER THERE IS A BIG BIG DIFFERENCE. A MAJORITY or the kidnappings in Mexico are called "Day Kidnappings" or "Fast cash kidnappings". meaning they grab you, drive you around and make you withdraw money from the bank ATM's. Once they can;t get any more money, they dump you on the side of the road and take your car and whatever valuables you have on your person, wallet, jewelry ect.

In Colombia, when kidnapped, is seems they will hold you for weeks or months until ransom is paid. Even then, there is a good chance they will still kill you.

If you gave me a choice of being kidnapped in Colombia or Mexico, I'd pick MEXICO.

Just a thought

Semper Fidelis !

BAQ says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:54:

Semper Fidelis !

santiBOG says on Aug 3, 2005, 16:56:

De acuerdo con Tertius, que consuelo tan mediocre. Estamos muy jodidos si esto nos hace felices.

Nora says on Aug 3, 2005, 17:02:

Paseos millonarios We have those kinds of kidnappings in Bogotá as well. Happened to a colleague of mine who took a taxi off the street the other day. They emptied her card and thought they wewe wery gentlemanly for leaving her 20 000 pesos to get home for. I´ve no idea whether the paseos enter the kidnapping statistics though…

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 3, 2005, 18:06:

I don't think Paseos count I don't think Paseos Milionarios are counted as kidnapping in Colombia. I think the cops consider it a slow-motion mugging.

Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:12:

Like I said I can't confirm it, but I could see how it's possible. Some countries have some really antiquated laws on the books.
Supposedly if she's already married than you're fucked and will go to jail. Because now you have violated another man's 'property'.

Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:14:

I'd like to know out of the 24 gringos who got kidnapped last year in Colombia, who were they, where were they when it happened, what was their occupation, what were the circumstances etc.
I have a suspicion it's mostly gringos working for big oil companies, or State Dept employees. Does anybody know where there is some data on all this?

Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:32:

Are the FARC the only ones who kidnap? I was sure that the AUC did too, as well as the odd common thug or two.

I could see corrupt police working for or against you in that situation.

Rubiazo says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:34:

Sounds like good odds 1 or 2 a year only? But of course, would one always stay in Bogota.
My gf says she's scared to put us on one of those luxury buses now. I told her that if i were that worried, I'd never even have set foot in the country. Im' sure as fuck not DRIVING out there, I'd probably send us all over a cliff anyways!

ColombianoX says on Aug 3, 2005, 20:59:

"you are right though it is good news. Even 5 years ago it was a lot, lot worse."

Why thank you, Mr GIB. It's not too often we agree on anything but I think we can both agree we have President Uribe and the aid from the USA for getting rid of this shameful title.

Saludes,

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

santiBOG says on Aug 3, 2005, 21:18:

Let me just make a comment before you all go on with your cuentas alegres. I was a victim of a paseo millonario about 4 years ago. To make a long story short, the next day I went to the police station on circunvalar and calle fifty-something to file a report. They looked at me like ARE YOU CRAAAZY, WHY ARE YOU WASTING OUR TIME REPORTING A PASEO MILLONARIO?? THIS SHIT HAPPENS DOZENS OF TIME EACH DAY. I went ahead anyway because my US bank requested that I file a police report in order to get a credit for the funds that were stolen.

Point is, hundreds of these incidents go unreported because by Colombian law, as someone stated above, back then the paseo millonario was just a form of robbery, not a kidnapping. I don't know how it is nowadays, there was some talk on the news about changing that. If Mexico is counting their paseos millonarios as kidnappings and we are not, then someone better look at that data again and reinterpret.

lpdiver says on Aug 3, 2005, 22:06:

DAS Is kind of like the department of homeland security or CIA for Colombia.

Tony

"cook some rice!"

juanalejo says on Aug 4, 2005, 06:44:

Paseos Millonarios These are not in the stadistics of neither Mexico nor Colombia and for that matter nor Brazil nor Argentina nor Peru nor Venezuela. And Day kidnappings are not in the numbers either and those do not happen in Colombia and happen by the hundreds in Venezuela every year. They kidnap you for the price of your car and your family has until the end of the day to pay. My cousins husband was for a few years the manager of Citibank Mexico and he was not allowed by car outside Mexico City, they had found a beautiful house in Toluca and security did not allow it and they had to carry bodyguards all day long. Funny thing about it they had been transfered out of Bogota where he was Citibank Colombia manager and in Bogota he did not carry body guards at all. And he is American married to my cousin who is also American. And by the way most of the Americans kidnapped in Colombia are actually dual nationals which in most cases are Colombians which happen to have an American passport.

Lucia Rojas says on Aug 4, 2005, 06:52:

yes I got robbed in my house a couple of years ago...and when i wanted to file a denuncio the cops said: ah don't waste your time, it's a long process, you've already touched the stuff so you have tamperd with the prints( which is crazy for my prints were already there before I got robbed, so i don't see how that could've changed anything)) They were just to lazy to do it, and they didn't want to get into the paperwork.
Those are the few moments in which you wish you lived somewhere else.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 4, 2005, 07:14:

Mexican countryside I've logged considerable time in the backroads of Mexico and have to disagree that's where the danger lies. My experience has been that rural Mexicans are very honest and police their own quite well. The only time I ever had something stolen from me in rural Mexico was in a small town of about 1500 people. I told two locals and within an hour a shame-faced kid returned with my property and apologized profusely.

The place that worries me in MX is the Distrito Federal. Too much corruption and crime there to ever feel completely safe. My sense from having been in both places is that the Mexican cops are more corrupt on a face-to-face level (as in demanding bribes from the little people) and the Colombian cops engage in their corruption farther up the food chain.

juanalejo says on Aug 4, 2005, 07:23:

Countryside Nobody is doubting of the Mexican countryside being safer in general terms, but there is a big gap in security precautions in Mexico and Colombia. My appreciation from my cousins point of view has to do with the possibility of playing low key and being safe in Colombia versus the inability to do that in Mexico and hence the need of "guaruras" or bodyguards as called in Mexico. And the biggest difference has to do in the numbers of kidnaps that although similar in Colombia most of them are in rural areas where the most affected are landowners, farmers and due to the conflict also soldiers, while in Mexico most of the kidnaps are urban, highly concentrated in Mexico City and where most victims are high profile characters from trade, industry and even showbusiness.

caslug says on Aug 4, 2005, 07:59:

i think if kidnapper wanted to grab random foreigners.. then they can easily do it by hanging outside certain location(clubs/bars, etc,) where they know we frequent. Heck they can just follow the taxi back to our hotel or houses(for expat living in COL). and plan the grab another time. There TONS of foreigners in Medellin now, heck if i was them i hang outside the strip clubs that is frequent by foreigners, and jack the taxi couple minutes after you get in after it leaves the club. maybe at the light or something. I dont think random grab for money is that often(as oppose to politcal or bigger fish(richer) targets).. But then again, living and vacation are two different things.. BUT if they wanted to they can grab tourist just as easily..

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 4, 2005, 08:35:

Rural kidnaps in Mexico GIB, I think you're referring to the rash of kidnappings and murders of both foreigners and locals around Ciudad Juarez on the Tex-Mex border. That's a fairly isolated and horrible case but enough to make the State Dept issue a travel warning.

On the whole, rural Mexico, even places like Chiapas, are pretty safe. As Juanalejo pointed out, the big ticket kidnappings in Mexico are highly planned, targetted grabs of wealthy or high-profile people.

Caslug, I'd imagine the reason that there aren't many grabs of random tourists in Bogota and Medellin is because it's really risky and difficult to get away with. It's certainly much harder in Bogota now that the local FARC front has been dismantled. Say you kidnap a bunch of rich kids or foreigners coming out of a bar in the Zona Rosa. How are you going to get them out of town? How are you going to hold them long enough to ransom them? It's much easier for the FARC to kidnap rural landowners and march them straight into the hills.

ColombianoX says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:08:

"..to once again refute your unfounded and fantasy-based conclusions drawn from your first "Good News for Colombia" soap opera series that you started on Sunday at the expense of Mexico,"

"I am all in favor of, and cheering, for Colombia being a better place, which I believe it is steadily becoming."

GringoDeLouisian,

My "fantasy-based conclusions"? This is an article from CNN, one of the leading news sources in the USA, and they don't report "fantasy"! If you are supposedly "in favor of Colombia being a better place" then why are you trying to refute what is undoubtedly positive news for Colombia?

On a side note, it's interesting how Univision and Telemundo completely ignored this news item in their evening newscasts yesterday.

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

caslug says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:17:

exactly Mr. H. i think logistical reason like you mention is why that can´t just grab us tourist while we stumble drunk out of a club. It´s alot easy just to roll us for our wallet then stuff us in a waiting car and take off. Especially if they dont know anything about us(rich kid or budget minded backpackers(that happen to dress up for a night out). But i think when you are LIVING in COL, then they have more time to do research on you IF its worthwhile. i´m more afraid of random street violent, ie mugging that being kidnap in the street.

Obvisouly kidnapping for political motive is a different story.

Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:36:

I talked to some of my Mexican friends here. According to them, the countryside IS dangerous, and has gotten a lot worse recently. One was telling me about a kidnapping that happened for only $75k USD or so. That doesn't sound very high-profile to me.
This particular story had a happy ending, because the guy paid private investigators to take care of it. They did a thorough investigation and found out that the kidnapping ring comprised an entire extended family of about 35-40 people over 3 generations!!

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 4, 2005, 09:46:

Interesting That's interesting, Rubiazo. When I think about it, it's not really fair of us to speak of the Mexican "countryside" as if it's a single place. I'm sure danger levels are vastly different in Baja than they are in Chihuahua and again much different from Oaxaca. It's a big country.

What I meant, however, is that unlike Colombia, where the countryside is CLEARLY more dangerous than the cities because of the war and the illegal groups, I don't think you can make that same generalization about Mexico or Brazil.

Rubiazo says on Aug 4, 2005, 10:45:

My friend's incident Occured somewhere in the boondocks in rural Guerrero. He is from some town halfway between Acapulco and Puerto Vallarta himself.
Perhaps part of it is that a lot of the southeastern Mexicans have been doing well for themselves up here in NYC and of course, a lot this money finds its way back to these regions that didn't have any money before. So now all of a sudden there is something to fight and rob for!

I personally think that rural areas are in many cases more dangerous than even the worst areas of any city, despite the country. They perhaps are just especially bad in Colombia.

The most dangerous areas of Brazil are all rural, but they are basically all up in that border region with Colombia and Venezuela.

morphus says on Aug 5, 2005, 06:42:

its not exactly good news if people are still getting kidnapped in Mexico. it would be good news if there were no more kidnappings everywhere. when it comes to people it should'nt matter what country they are from. there is a difference between the kidnappings in Colombia than in Mexico. in Mexico, its purely for money. in Colombia, the kidnappings are more political and if you are a gringo, they will kidnap you just for the fun of it. thats if you are lucky. sometimes they will just riddle you with bullets right there if they don't like you or worse. you might find yourself getting hacked up with a chainsaw at some finca out in the country. lets not pretend Colombia is la la land.

vladimiro says on Aug 5, 2005, 07:03:

This is like the "good news" about Colombians bieng able to take turist trips into the country-side via convoys heavily guarded by helicopters, and the military:) It made my family in the US laugh when they read about the armed convoy turist trips:)

Gomezman5 says on Aug 5, 2005, 10:06:

Cx makes a good point Cx and I have talked about this many of times before and that is the fact that Telemundo, and especially Univision, have a propencity to portray only the negative aspects in Col. There is hardly a day that Univision does not have something on the news about the FARC and/or drugs. One time, I got so irritated with Univision when they did a segment in their national news about the pot holes in Bogota' and they showed close ups of these huge pot holes as well as photos of the rear wheels of a car that could not get out of the hole. This really irritated me.

GDL....you have a point when you say that the people on this thread are savy enough to "seperate the forest from the trees" so to speak. But most people who watch networks like CNN, don't have nearly as much insight as those of us participating in this forum.