More Crap about Colombia on CNN

Portena says on Sep 27, 2007, 09:57:

Whew! All that scary, haunted house music as they show Bogota....must be getting ready for halloween. Booo! Beware the zombie drug!

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elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2007, 10:19:

Wait, they made a horrible, horrible, horrible mistake! this chit is takin place in barranquilla NOT in bogota.
In all my trips to curramba I have NEVER NEVER heard of this drug until now.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Simon says on Sep 27, 2007, 10:41:

Those fockers at CNN hate Colombian people!

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2007, 10:48:

simon, they got lou dobbs a fat bigot that hates everyone who's not white anglo american.
They'e getting as bad as FOX.
Listen is all about money, dumping on latinos and latino countries is very IN now a days and they're just cashing in on the latest trend.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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Simon says on Sep 27, 2007, 10:57:

"simon, they got lou dobbs a fat bigot that hates everyone who's not white anglo american."

Elmo,

I've seen that fat POS!! I can't believe that with so many Mexicans in the US, this warthog is allowed to spread his hate day after day! I bet if he constantly criticized jews or blacks, they would have run him out of town a long time ago! It's sad that latinos are treated like second-class citizens over there.

"Tu vas a ver, llegaras a mi edad y veras que Colombia seguira igual"-----Simon Sr.

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nine inch nails says on Sep 27, 2007, 11:02:

I like in the video when the guy he say "Welcome to locolombia" then starts wickedly laughing. In all seriousness is some scary chit!

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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bufalo says on Sep 27, 2007, 11:19:

It is a major problem here. I know a bunch of people that got caught with that. there was a local teacher from the US (yup, gringo) that was doped by drinking something in a bar that a chick bought him, they went back to his place, then woke up the next day with stuff missing. good thing he lived where there was a doorman otherwise she wouldve cleaned him out.

"newbie" says it all OP

during the year end holiday season, lots of people get ppoisoned by buying liquor in sanandresitos, happens every year. OK, not everyone, but it happens.....

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 27, 2007, 11:23:

Simon, Lou Dobbs is a blowhard, no doubt, but he rails against illegal immigrants. They are not first, second or third class citizens so he can rail away until his ratings drop or advertisers pull their ads.

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madman5 says on Sep 27, 2007, 11:34:

I know a lot about drugs and this one is completely overrated. If it worked as good as they claim then it would be famous all over the world. It would not be something some stupid lowlife website discovers.

gringoinbogota has just be listening to typical Colombian paranoia, and like someone naive, loves to repeat it.

You can mix almost any over the counter tranquilizer with alcohol to get someone so stoned he will not remember and do pretty much what you tell him to do.

Remember these victims telling their story are "victims" which means they are week to begin with and are telling the story in their favor. Instead of saying "I am so stupid I let this guy drug me and rob me" they are saying "it was not my fault because he had some super-drug that took total control of my mind".

Read the Wikipedia report. The CIA and the Nazi's found the drug useless as a truth drug or as a control drug. Of course we are to believe some punk with a camera and a strung out Colombia street person instead? Duh!

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miamimike says on Sep 27, 2007, 13:19:

Very Interesting Video,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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John Milton says on Sep 27, 2007, 13:31:

I would agree with GIB on this drug. I was assigned to the U.S. Embassy in Bogota twice while in the military and it was the danger of this drug that they warned us about the most, not the other negative stuff that the media sometimes ignorantly spews. Now I would say this video of course makes it seem like everyone is getting “scoped� which only continues misguiding people about what Colombia really is like and that is a shame. Still, I will say that I knew a gringo that got scoped because he was keeping company with hookers at a bar he was not supposed to be at. From what he remembers he spent the rest of the weekend in a cage naked and being mocked. They stripped him of his money and dumped him off naked somewhere to work on his tan while he tried to find his way home. The drug is strong and very dangerous, but if you want to better your chances of not getting some hands on experience with it don’t put yourself in a bad situation i.e. don’t chill with prostitutes, especially when you can’t speak Spanish. Of course a cab driver can always turn around and blow it in your face and the next thing you know you’re are going on that million dollar taxi ride from ATM to ATM instead of drinking some cold ones. The drug is dangerous, Bogota however is just like any other city when it comes to danger, the danger is directly proportionate to ones own stupidity barring just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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webmanco says on Sep 27, 2007, 13:31:

It exists not doubt aobut it, still CNN = Amarillistas

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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juancegomez says on Sep 27, 2007, 14:23:

It's definitely an existing danger, and so it's absolutely warranted and even necessary to describe its horrible effects and to warn about it. GiB's right as far as that goes, unquestionably, and so is the video report.

But I believe the report does go a bit overboard in how it presents things.

Even if the facts are mostly OK by themselves, the context they are being placed in isn't the best. And it isn't just the music.

The danger is real, indeed, and many people rightfully fear it, but it's not as if CNN couldn't have made a better report.

As for Lou Dobbs...*shrugs*

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Portena says on Sep 27, 2007, 14:35:

"The drug is strong and very dangerous, but if you want to better your chances of not getting some hands on experience with it don’t put yourself in a bad situation i.e. don’t chill with prostitutes, especially when you can’t speak Spanish. Of course a cab driver can always turn around and blow it in your face and the next thing you know you’re are going on that million dollar taxi ride from ATM to ATM instead of drinking some cold ones. The drug is dangerous, Bogota however is just like any other city when it comes to danger, the danger is directly proportionate to ones own stupidity barring just being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

I would agree. And, people can definitely find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. That doesn't make them stupid - that makes them tragically unlucky.

People do need to know about the drug, but starting out this segmant with the haunted house music and zooming in on a Latin city is what makes it smack of racism.

There are dangers all over the world. Using common sense and educating yourself about those dangers can usually go pretty far in terms of keeping you out of harms way

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Lisa Zee says on Sep 27, 2007, 14:53:

I have seen here in Los Angeles California USA, few cases of rape, with the same crap, they made big news, so it happens everywhere. I never heard any of my family complaining about any thing like that.
It is all where you go and who you hang around with.
My mother used to warm me way back when, not to leave my drink unattended when going to the bath room, if I was with a stranger. I personally or anyone I know have had a bad experience, but I know we have to be always careful, this a crazy world, but not just Colombia.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 27, 2007, 15:12:

Well, Colombia wanted the attention. Now it's getting it, good (economy, security, tourism, etc), AND bad (economic disparity, security, drugs, corruption, etc.). GIB is correct in his post, and I rarely agree with him on much.

Seems that some here can't handle the truth, or prefer to sweep shit under the rug. To them, better left unsaid.

Some here are completely clueless or careless as to where their actions may lead them.

And some here, including the OP, are downright stupid, in regards to "Funny thing is I leave my drinks on my table in bars all the time. I also see Colombian do it all the time...." YOU ARE NOT COLOMBIAN. You're the target.

While this drug is not deadly, it's very effective for what its intended purposes are, AND it's widely available and used. While shady taxistas can use it, it's generally chicks who lure gullible dudes into false senses of security. And foreigners and rich Colombians are the target. Rich Colombians KNOW what they're up against, and take plenty of precautions. Foreigners????? And, it's not only hookers who play this game.

BTW, there has been other documentaries done on this drug and Colombia. I believe I saw one on National Geographic earlier this year. And there are others floating the internet. CNN just decided to get in the game.

Lou Dobbs has plenty of negatives. He's a ratings clown and I rarely watch him. However, his beef is against ILLEGAL immigrants, not Latinos only. Why would anyone problems with what he's railing against, if you and/or your family are legal? The US government needs to do its job on the borders, including Miami. That doesn't mean he's racist. Just means that the US government has sold out the country to the Mexican and Cuban lobbyists. That's true.

And I'll take Lou Dobbs over Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly 7 days a week, 365-366 days a yr. Both of whom constantly throw jabs at Latinos, and often at Colombians. Yet, still you watch.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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greg says on Sep 27, 2007, 15:25:

My sister in laws uncle was a victim of burundaga. A woman put it in his drink. He never was the same after. He died a few years later. I had asked her about it after watching the movie Finding Miguel

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NataliaV says on Sep 27, 2007, 17:45:

Greg - Finding Miguel..never heard of it. What is it about? Where can I find it? I'm always looking for new movies to watch...

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slguy says on Sep 27, 2007, 18:59:

Wait a minute.

Are there other places in the world where this problem is as widespread? I don't mean an occasional report of it's use- I mean daily (seemingly) instances of use of this drug on unsuspecting victims?

If it is an international problem, then MAYBE you could stretch the report into rascism.

But I haven't heard reports of it's widespread use anywhere but Colombia - so how is the report "rascist"???? I guess it's rascist in the same way that thinking OJ killed those people is rascist?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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greg says on Sep 27, 2007, 19:14:

Natalia
Do a search on this site Buscando a Miguel and you can get info on the movie. I think it came out a few months ago. Watched it on dvd in Bogota

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Portena says on Sep 27, 2007, 20:02:

slguy - Why don't they just show a photo of the plant and play the halloween zombie music instead of zooming in on Bogota? The narrator could then emphasize that the main problem is in Colombia. Still, there are many problematic drugs out there and from what I've read a lot of people aren't reporting anything (about drugs slipped into drinks in the States) since they can't remember what happened.

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manINred says on Sep 27, 2007, 20:53:

Yeah this drug is fucked, i was given it, but taken care of ;)

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manINred says on Sep 27, 2007, 21:09:

haha, no. well, i was given it in the form of a tea. I drank it thinking it was a 'herbal' tea, like a tisane. The perpetrators never really understood what it did, and they thought it would be amusing to see what happened to an unsuspecting guy who drank it without knowing what the hell it was. After an initial feeling of drunkeness and auditory hallucinations which fucked with my head, I went insane for the night, the girls who gave it to me ended up crying hysterically, perhaps they didn't think I was coming back!!!

I came back, but after tripping hard, seeing women giving birth on kitchen floors, vomiting all over the place, doing stuff I don't remember (like walking into the forest...) and seeing random stuff on the ground and trying to pick the non-existent stuff up. I remember being very confused and having phases of clarity where I would wonder why I was sitting at the kitchen table at 2:30 in the morning.

I think most surprisingly I spoke fluent Spanish during my trip of insanity. I had only been learning for 4 weeks, and I was shite, but I could speak under the influence of the drug, and people were amazed, so was I when I found out of my hidden and drug-induced skills!

My short-sighted vision was messed up for a few days. But I was back to normal after awhile, or at least so I think :)

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Buongone says on Sep 27, 2007, 21:42:

And again, there's the person/troll who posted the same post on this website at least 6 times in a year. They were out there! Doe's anyone remember that post? They said it really screwed them up!

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christobeldawg says on Sep 27, 2007, 21:43:

think glue sniffing. lifelong foked up mentally

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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slguy says on Sep 27, 2007, 22:28:

Portena, don't misunderstand me, please. Like most people here, I adore Colombia.

But unlike some posters here, (this is not aimed at you), I have no problem with facts about the country being honestly reported. Why softsell such a terrible risk? If Bogota has a significant problem with this- why not zoom in on the city? It's not rascism, it's not anti-Colombian propaganda - it's simply a fact.

In my admittedly idealistic world, it's remotely possible that such press may eventually push the government to try some anti-"scope" enforcement, or at least make an effort to crack down on the perpetrators. I know, I know - my rose-colored glasses are firmly in place....but if enforcement is out of the question, travelers have a right to be made aware of the risk- and where the risk is, no?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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john_stark says on Sep 27, 2007, 22:30:

Yeah I was a victim. When I woke up my money was gone and my asshole hurt. Now I have strange cravings to put large vegetables up my butt. Or maybe that was la brujeria.

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goin_south says on Sep 27, 2007, 22:35:

oh? brujeria can work 'against ya'???

Where do we go from here?

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christobeldawg says on Sep 27, 2007, 22:45:

maybe once we already expect that zombie like state from the drug, we can turn it around on them, and then they become the unknowing zombies

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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kalder says on Sep 28, 2007, 00:55:

"And, people can definitely find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. That doesn't make them stupid - that makes them tragically unlucky."

Well said Portena. There's a rather juvenile sub-culture here that likes to jeer at victims of crime: 'That sucker deserved it. If only he'd been cool, street, hip etc. like me...' etc.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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droble77 says on Sep 28, 2007, 09:27:

Rubito I don't know for sure if Bog is #1 for scopolamine attacks but if it isn't I would be surprised. I believe 50% of all poisoning cases in Bog hospitals are from burundanga. It DOES appear to be more common in Bog than in MDE or Cali or the coast if you compare anecdotes. And after all, it is the biggest city in Colombia so Bog is #1 in many things, good and bad.

I think the really scary part is there's some scenarios as GIB has pointed out that you just don't see coming. Still, I'd avoid hanging out in some of the seedier bars and clubs of Bog unless I was with a trusted friend, and even then you are playing the odds. And being an extranjero might make you more of a target, but it happens to many locals as well.

As for the CNN report, I thought most people here don't want Colombia to be overrun by gringos or "tourons" as GIB would put it. These reports will keep many Americans away from Colombia, isn't that what most people here want ANYWAY???

"But CNN is antiAmerican and anti friends to the US so your surprised when they give a bad report to Colombia?"

Not sure why you always have a political axe to grind (you don't even live in the states anymore so why should you care anyway?) but can you explain exactly how liberal CNN is anti-American and conservative right-wing Fox is pro-American? This is the only country in the world where people label each other "anti-country." I don't think liberal and conservative brits for example, call each other "anti-British" They may use other kinds of insults. ;)

But "anti-American" is just a cheap shot and a cop-out that goes back to the dead (and should be buried) politics of the sixties.

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Portena says on Sep 28, 2007, 10:25:

I do appreciate the safety pointers people offer here. I felt well prepared for my visit and was careful about where I went and who I was with. I had a good trip and enjoyed seeing a positive side of Colombia. Even so there were a few situations that raised red flags. Then, on the other hand I was told here and by other people to be on guard and hypervigilant.

If Colombia doesn't have anti-scopolamine drugging laws then I would agree it would be a good first step toward combatting the situation. Of course then - will the laws get enforced?

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Portena says on Sep 28, 2007, 11:01:

Sorry, Rubito, I don't know enough about the specific neurologic actions of scopolamine and the related forensic issues to answer that question. The big problem for victims of these kinds of drugs is it's difficult/almost impossible to build a case when you have no memory of what happened. Some of the best evidence seems to come from bystanders who notice a sudden change in the drugging victim (looking drunk and out of it when they were lucid just moments ago) and are willing to come forward with details about where it happened, who was present at the scene... Sounds like you might not get a lot of cooperation with such an investigation in Colombia (people too intimidated to come forward with information?)

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slguy says on Sep 28, 2007, 11:47:

Rubito, I'm not too sure how you reach this conclusion, about "No evidence". Absent police reports, national surveys, blah blah blah, (which obviously don't exist) anecdotal evidence is pretty much all there is to go on, no? The very nature of the crime prevents accurate reporting, since it's hard to make coherent reports on experiences victims can't remember, isn't it?

I get the impression that Bogota is pretty much the extent of your firsthand knowledge of Colombia- so how can you claim that Bogota isn't the epicenter of this problem? Or are you just citing a lack of written reports, so anecdotal evidence ought to be ignored? I could easily be mistaken, but I see FAR more talk of these instances from Bogota than from Medellin, Cali, BQ, etc. If it walks like a duck....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Portena says on Sep 28, 2007, 12:29:

Moral of the story: You can probably never be perfectly safe from getting drugged, but if you watch your drink, take other typical precautions, and surround yourself with trustworthy people (and don't wander off with people you know nothing about) you may at least get rescued from the situation and have some witnesses who can report on the crime. This might be a lot easier for a visitor to Colombia than a resident since unless you keep yourself surrounded by body guards you're going to be running errands, and carrying out your daily routine alone at times.

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Portena says on Sep 28, 2007, 15:06:

That's the point I was making - probably not good to be a tourist all alone.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 28, 2007, 15:58:

"I haven't found any concrete evidence. Like Robi found out, I found a phone survey that pointed to Barranquilla as the #1 site of scopolamine attacks, but the sample size was tiny and questionably distributed (by Estrato)... "

Rubi - It's ok to say "I don't know." But this is pure BS. A phone survey in Colombia? You can't seriously try to attach credibility to that.

MY OPINION: I'd venture to guess that Bogota, Medellin and Cali and their respective surrounding areas have more frequent instances of scopomine drugging.

Bogota - because it's the capital and all kinds of stuff is possible. And it's already not the safest city in Colombia. Very target rich.

Medellin - particularly the dearth of electronica clubs and the increased influx of foreigners losing their minds over paisas. Easy targets.

Cali - Cali's just rough these days. Palmira is off the hook these days.

Barranquilla may have a lot of petty crime, pickpockets and the like. But, of all of the many friends that I have there, I've yet to hear of a single person being drugged like this. Now, they're heard stories of it occurring in other cities, but not so in BAQ. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Fewer targets from the other 3 cities.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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slguy says on Sep 28, 2007, 16:24:

"Let me ask you something, do you actually believe it when somebody in a bar tells you that same old chestnut about somebody waking up in a hotel bathtub full of ice missing a kidney or two?"

Hmmmm...I would listen to that guy, and lend him about the same level of credibility as I lend to a Colombian "expert" who never leaves Bogota, I guess- especially when no real-life facts are available on the subject - just opinion.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Lostgringo says on Sep 29, 2007, 16:46:

I know of a man who once rented a room from us. He told me that he had been drugged in a bar. He went on to say that he was trying to leave the bar and was feeling really bad and going unconscious. A guy on the street was trying to "help" him into a waiting taxi. The only thing that saved him was the doorman across the street came to his aid. He was renting a room in that hotel and the doorman knew him. He spent the night in hospital. I would Never...let me repeat that..NEVER leave my drink unattended anywhere in Colombia unless with friends I knew at the table. GIB is absolutely correct on this issue....you have to keep you whits about you. As soon as my girlfriend gets into a taxi she locks the doors. She (unlike me), always calls a taxi from a phone. She is wary of people asking for the time and keeps her distance. Paranoid? I don't think so. It's just part of the lifestyle in Bogotá. I am not targeting Bogotá alone. I live in a different city and am also cautious of what is going on. Funny thing after I watched the vid I was walking in my pueblo and spotted one of the trees where this stuff comes from.

Police once asked a famous bank robber Willy Sutton..."why do you rob banks?" He replied, "that's where the money is." Food for thought.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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campbell says on Oct 2, 2007, 01:26:

happened to my friend

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john_stark says on Oct 2, 2007, 05:54:

Did you ask him if his asshole hurt? And why was that big cucumber there?

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campbell says on Oct 2, 2007, 14:29:

i

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campbell says on Oct 2, 2007, 15:07:

valuable lesson

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kalder says on Oct 3, 2007, 02:37:

You were wearing sandals?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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slguy says on Oct 4, 2007, 14:24:

"You were wearing sandals?"

You beat me to it, kalder. jajajajajjajajjjajaa

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Man Tequila says on Oct 4, 2007, 20:03:

Most of the Colombians I spoke to had a family member or friend who lost something (their life, valuable possessions, money) due to scopolamina. This stuff is no joke. That said, I am not paranoid. I don't leave my drink on the table, but have had many people buy me drinks without problem. If you go to a bar and they give you an open bottle or glass of beer, what are you going to do? Start demanding they only sell you capped bottles? Even this proves nothing... Don't give papaya, hope you rnumber doesn't come up, not every attack could be easily prevented (unless you are Rubito, claro).

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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kalder says on Oct 5, 2007, 07:48:

Sandals.

I was just going to suggest that they look best with white brushed cotton socks.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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campbell says on Oct 7, 2007, 22:30:

yep

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