Medellin: The Next Panama?

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 8, 2008, 16:59:

Monday, September 17, 2007
Colombia: The New Panama?

COLOMBIA: AN IDEAL COUNTRY FOR THOSE IN THE MARKET FOR A SECOND HOME?

The following Bill is scheduled to be presented to the Colombian Congress.

Medellin, September 6, 2007 – In the following days the office of Treasury Ministry and Public Financing will present for consideration, to the Congress of Republic, a proposal aimed at stimulating the economy in Colombia, with an emphasis on promoting the development of a new real estate market designed to attract foreigners interested in purchasing property in Colombia.

The proposed Bill has taken into consideration the improved security in Colombia to help sell the plan, among other benefits including; affordable medical services, advanced telecommunications, warm climate, sandy beaches, wonderful landscapes, recently added airline connections from varies carriers. The Bill also provides generous benefits to both the land developer as well as those purchasing investment properties.

The National Council of Political and Social Economic Department has already approved the general guidelines for the proposal submitted by The Treasury Ministry and Public Financing department for the development and stimulation of the Colombia’s economy. The NCPSED have also recommended that the Bill allow for more elaboration of the plans proposed framework before it is submitted to Congress for approval.

The Bill is aimed at Colombian citizens living abroad and foreign investors with the objective of purchasing an investment property as a second or vacation home. It also includes plans and provisions for those who want to retire in Colombia sometime in the future. The new Bill includes many incentives to lure retirees from around the world to consider Colombia as a retirement option. The purchase of a property can also make for a profitable and safe alternative investment with regards to income property.

The objective of the Colombian Government is to enter into the investment market that has recently developed in Central and South American. Thanks to the positive advances that Colombia has made in recent years it has encouraged investors form North America as well as Europe to look at Colombia as having great investment potential outside of their respected countries. Investments from foreigners will help improve the economy and aid in the development and improvement of the Colombia’s infrastructure.
The benefits for investors
In order to develop a successful program in the second house market in Colombia it is necessary to approve benefits for these urban projects for potential investors.

An investor will not have to pay taxes on the purchase of the property.

The import of home furnishings, personal property, one automobile, will not be taxed as long as they are not sold in Colombia to another party.

You will not be taxed if you decide to rent your property to tourist visiting Colombia.

There is also an exemption on rent income originated outside of Colombia.

In order for investors to receive these benefits a person must demonstrate a minimum income whose amount you would need to meet which would be established by DIAN. They can not deny or refuse proposals with the exception being of national interest and security.

http://medellin-colombia.blogspot.com

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 8, 2008, 17:16:

Also, read this article for more information on purchasing a home in Colombia http://www.scribd.com/doc/502990/InvestInColombia?page=1

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

nine inch nails says on Feb 8, 2008, 20:37:

Panama prices still real good at least as of this past May, half or little less even than US on groceries etc. Plus I thought Panamanian women still real friendly even more than CR.

So if MDE to become like Pan. then prices of goods will stop rising.

get down, get down

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 8, 2008, 20:47:

I'd skip purchasing anything in Panama and invest in Medellin, Colombia instead. But that's just me.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

MitchAlvarez says on Feb 8, 2008, 22:59:

como van a comparar a medallo con panama? uyyy ni loco respetico por favor

lpdiver says on Feb 8, 2008, 23:03:

Colombia is pretty good and relatively stable now. That could change so quickly! I bet you can get some fantastic deals on real estate in Venezuela right now.

Think about it.

T

"cook some rice!"

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 07:34:

I am looking to to take the profits from my Panamá apartment (maybe 60% in 18 months) and invest in Colombia.

But I hope not to see the uncontrolled growth there that we have here.

It seems the Venezuelans are buying EVERYTHING now.

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 07:54:

in "COLOMBIA: AN IDEAL COUNTRY FOR THOSE IN THE MARKET FOR A SECOND HOME?"


"The import of home furnishings, personal property, one automobile, will not be taxed as long as they are not sold in Colombia to another party." Eventually the vehicle will be sold to someone else, either a direct sale or trade-in. What then?

Does that still preclude importation of used vehicles?

In Panamá that statement (Duty free import of one vehicle every two years with a pensionado visa) is a fraud. It is not an exemption, as widely advertised, but rather simply a deferment. A sales tax must be paid on some coin-tossed valuation, and the duty MUST be paid EVENTUALLY, by someone, on the assesed value AT THE TIME OF IMPORTATION.

tejasmarcos says on Feb 9, 2008, 08:12:

has anybody been able to actually track the progress of the bill?

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

RAAAY says on Feb 9, 2008, 08:15:

Sloop............."The import of home furnishings, personal property, one automobile, will not be taxed as long as they are not sold in Colombia to another party."


Where is this quote from..??




Thanks

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 08:32:

The quote is from the first response, from Medellin Traveler

Yes, the same is true here, but as I said, the car, most likely, will eventually be sold, or traded-in.

Considering a new car with a value of maybe $30,000US, its value after X years might be only 2,500. If I understand the law here, the duty must be paid on that ORIGINAL value when it is sold or traded in. In actuality you could be paying duty on the $30K for some worn-out old junker. It seems the law in Colombia might be the same.

The only exemption, here, is if the vehicle is sold to another pensionado, but then he accepts that responsibility. The buyer would have to be a fool, unless the seller reduces the price by the amount of the duty obligation.

It is ironic that my Jeep has already been in Colombia. It got hung up in Cartagena on the voyage from Viejo San Juan to Panamá.

Also I've seen the statement that used cars can not be imported, numerous times, but also have read some stuff that seemed to contradict that.

Any ideas?

RAAAY says on Feb 9, 2008, 08:46:

............ "Bans/prohibitions: No tariff categories appear on the prohibited import list, except for used bags and sacks of vegetable fibers. Items previously prohibited are now permitted under license. However, no import licenses are approved for used automotive vehicles of any kind, used parts and accessories for tractors and automotive vehicles, or used tires, which in practice are all considered as prohibited items for import into Colombia. Furthermore, imports of old or used clothing, closeouts, irregulars, rags, and scrap cordage of textile material wastes are subject to prior import license approval which, in practice, is not granted. "

http://www.buyusa.gov/colombia/en/doing_business_in_colombia.html

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 9, 2008, 09:08:

tejasmarcos says, "has anybody been able to actually track the progress of the bill?"

I have not heard anything regarding the proposed bill for some time now. I wonder why? Is it because it's Colombia?

RAAAY,
The article I posted with information on purchasing a home in Colombia http://www.scribd.com/doc/502990/InvestInColombia?page=1 was translated from a proposed law that was to be submitted to the Colombia Congress a few months back, and as I mentionned above, have yet to hear anything more as to the status of the bill.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Feb 9, 2008, 09:25:

I posted the first reference to the proposed law something like 6 months ago... and they were saying it was going fast.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 09:34:

Thanx RAAAY,

That certainly seems to confirm that importing used vehicles is verboten.

What I had seen was some dialog about someone considering importing used cars as a business, and none of the parties mentioning the prohibition.

RAAAY says on Feb 9, 2008, 10:07:

Sloop.............You can import a used vehicle on a temporary permit only...............If you could do it as a business there would be a stampede of fellas at it............

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 10:30:

I can certainly imagine, jaja

panthdave says on Feb 9, 2008, 10:54:

Your also cannot compare country like Panama which the currency is the American Dollar...which I think and might be wrong is a safer investment....you never know on these damn conversion rates..in countries which have there own currency...

MDE is overpriced...my opinion..

panthdave Miami

robi666 says on Feb 9, 2008, 10:59:

Panthdave, what do you mean with overpriced?
I mean, "overpriced" is relative among items in the same category. So, Medellin is overpriced comparing it to the cities of the rest of Colombia?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 11:19:

Probably also Cartagena, even moreso. But you should look at current prices in Panamá. It appears that my 13 year old apartment has appreciated by, easily, 60% in the last 18 months.

You might think the US$ is safer, but look at the charts, for 5 years:

Dollar to Euro



Dollar to COP



NOT a pretty picture.

elk says on Feb 9, 2008, 11:39:

Compare the price of a home in Boquete, Panama vs Medellin..and Medellin will win hands down! I can't speak for Panama City, but I do know the Boquete prices of homes, apartments etc.

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 9, 2008, 11:51:

Aside from prices, the most important factor to me would be.. who wants to live in Panama vs who wants to live in Medellin, COLOMBIA? I choose MEDELLIN!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 11:52:

NO comparison here either, even to Cartagena!

I have been looking at the real estate since I return from there in October.

I can buy there, on the beach, for maybe half, and as you probably know there is no beach in Panama City, there is construction dirt and diesel soot everywhere, holes in streets and sidewalks, and the bay is polluted.

I hope people don't believe the bullshit in International Living, or Prima Panama.

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 11:54:

I haven't had the pleasure yet, but I am sure there is also no comparison, especially at Christmas!

I came here from Puerto Rico, and at Navidad is pitiful.

tejasmarcos says on Feb 9, 2008, 12:04:

"MDE is overpriced...my opinion"

- some parts are overpriced, some parts still are good buys.

sloop - those charts depress me. makes me feel more like red, white and purple..... as in i just got kicked in the nuts by my glorious government and their inability to manage debt and trade imbalance.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 12:12:

teja, remember me telling you about selling almost 3000 euro dollars for 80 cents? Talk about depressing. BUT, all is in the past, "life goes on".

WELL, we must fund this war, and make the World safe for democracy. Oh, that was Woodrow Wilson.

lpdiver says on Feb 9, 2008, 14:50:

The tide will turn. Hedge your investments and be ready to make some killer buys.

T

"cook some rice!"

sloopskipper says on Feb 9, 2008, 15:27:

Canada, South Korea, & Latin America + Copa still holding on for me.
But a bit chicken to pull the trigger on much now.

panthdave says on Feb 9, 2008, 16:41:

MDE is overpriced trust me.??? I am not comparing Cartagena...MDE no oceanfront so you cannot compare...There are many apartments and houses for sale.....To my friends don't buy over the internet and come to Medellin to get use to your surroudings and make a smart choice...Panama you cannot compare to Medellin that's all I am saying...Bad comparasion...

panthdave Miami

robi666 says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:04:

Dave, still, to say that something is overpriced you have to compare it with something else.
So for example, you can say that Poblado is overpriced because other sectors are not too different.
Or, new apartments are overpriced because they are not so different from an old one after you have renew.
Or Medellin is overpriced in respect of Panama.

My point is that you compare it to other cities, not only in Colombia, Medellin is far from being overpriced. I think that prices have still a lot of way to go (up).
Talking about long term, not 5 years fluctuations.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

panthdave says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:11:

MDE is overpriced...I would rather pay the same price for a Beach House in Peru and eat ceviche and drink chilas. every fokin dia.....on the Pacific...MDE is great but right now no way.. Sorry even my Novia would rather move to the beach in Peru. or Costa Rica...for the price...Panama I would not move too but the currency is in dollars so you have no movement in the currrency .thats the only reason but have no enjoyment moving there anyways...

panthdave Miami

panthdave says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:23:

To kill this I would pay for a beach house Patayia Thailand...and have fokin party which Colombia has no idea...My dad still has house on the beach in Thailand and Bali...
I would pay top dollars to have a beach house in Australia before Colombia...The World is huge and Medellin is way overpriced.....

panthdave Miami

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 9, 2008, 18:19:

panthdave says, "MDE is great but right now no way"

Why not get in now before the drove of gringos drive up the prices up, making Medellin really overpriced?

At least you won't be kicking yourself in the arse in a few years.

I'll pass on Panama. Also, don't forget not everyone wants to live by the beach, the heat can be brutal at times, for many.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

bufalo says on Feb 9, 2008, 18:24:

"...Lets hope this does not happen and bring over inflated prices ..." already happening in my opinion. Everywhere there is supposed "developement" and "`progress", the prices go sky high. Sure, for most people in the states to sell their house for 300K, probably more, then move to Colombia, it's a real bargain. But to work here, making a regular salary, the prices of homes are outrageous. I know plenty of locals who buy a 20 million peso house and have trouble paying it off.
Here in Armenia, there is way too much construction and I don't really know who's buying. Not a good idea for gringos to invest, better wait until the US economy gets fixed (thanks Mr. Bush).

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

panthdave says on Feb 9, 2008, 18:31:

MDE Traveler you really think thats going to happen?????? Gringos have dollars even though its weak right now..You can have a Peru Beach House for the same price as Medellin......I will probably retire in Aussie land right now..even though I have a Colobiana Novia..Australia for the dollars and a damn good time...I rather be in Australia. Really have a nice property in Perth would be amazing...and a beach property in Bali or Thailand is the life...

panthdave Miami

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 9, 2008, 19:20:

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, for me it's Medellin. A wonderful little city with fincas an hour away for weekend getaways. I live 15 minutes from the lake here in Chicago and it's been years since I've been to the beach. I'm not into beaches, and believe there are more people like me who want to live in a beautiful city with great weather and all the ammenities a big city offers.

I believe that after the gringos discover Medellin, they will flock to the city. Especially if the new law is approved providing foreigners many great benefits, making the decision even that much more easier. But what do I know... it may never happen. But I know what Ive seen in Medellin and all it has to offer.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

tejasmarcos says on Feb 9, 2008, 19:49:

panth - you have any fotos of the properties in peru? can you give some examples?

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

pedro says on Feb 10, 2008, 00:31:

Beachfront anywhere near a city in Australia will cost you. For a vacant lot 1.5 hours out of Perth, figure US$600k.

Pattaya, I would never live or even visit there. It's a magnet for white trash. Maybe one of the Thai islands instead.

Bali, never been but imagine it's nice. I hear you can only lease the land, not buy it freehold.

Panama is pretty good once you get to see it properly. What other country is so culturally similar to Colombia? None.

I will feel happy and lucky to be able to make my home in Medellin, eventually.

que nota!

Waterdawg says on Feb 10, 2008, 08:02:

Panama : Been there , done that .. One dirty overpriced slum... If the wind is blowing in off the bay you need a gas mask to walk to the Mall .. I always get a kick out of folks talking about the great buy they got there . The construction is God awful ..Talk about the " Money aspect " all you want . For me it's all about quality of life , not the dam money

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 10, 2008, 08:19:

Well said Waterdawg.

I thought Panama was a dump as well, I'll even include Costa Rica too.

Where is all that money the gringos are leaving behind in Costa Rica spent?

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Waterdawg says on Feb 10, 2008, 08:38:

MT. let me tell you about last night .. I walk into my favorite watering whole ; I had been back in the States for a week ( Chicago Biz ) .. Well my birthday fell on the fifth . So I walk into the joint and my four little wait staff girls bring out this little cake with candles and all .. Blew me away .. Its all about the little thing to me ! .. By the way looks like I will finally get over to the MED. this coming weekend .. I never seem to be able to get out of Bogota unless its back to the States .. Looking forward to it .

hongo_joe says on Feb 10, 2008, 08:51:

"Panama : Been there , done that .. One dirty overpriced slum.."

The ignorant comments you can find on this site are mindboggling

RAAAY says on Feb 10, 2008, 08:59:

Waterdawg says ...

...." So I walk into the joint and my four little wait staff girls ......... Blew me away .. "

Sounds nice....................


Water ......if you have time whils in Medellin, I'd love to have a chat about your experiences with exporting........I understand you do it with leather.......If you think you might have some time, I'll pm you with my number....

Thanks


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2008, 09:06:

I think it's goofy to compare MDE to Panama. First, one's a country, the other is a city.

I personally can't see living in Panama City because it's just WAY too hot and not particularly cosmopolitan but as an investment I'd consider Panama way more stable over the long term than Medellin.

First and formost, there's no currency risk for an American buying in Panama. It's dollars to dollars. Second, the Panama Canal is going to be a real economic engine for a long time still to come. What's MDE's fundamental economic driver? Finally, security, security, security. Panama has crime, Colombia has crime, paracos and guerillas.

robi666 says on Feb 10, 2008, 09:14:

Medellin is an awesome city.
But, investing here is a bigger risk. Of course, big risk is eventually big rewards.
I frankly do not see someone investing here without living here. The main reason being to generate income in local currency to balance inflation and currency fluctuation.

Now, if you decide to live here and you can afford to buy your own apartment, I don't see why renting.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2008, 09:39:

I also agree with that, Robi.

I'd much rather live in MDE than Panama City.

RAAAY says on Feb 10, 2008, 09:57:

There are some lovely parts of Panama........but the city.......?? did'nt like it at all.

Two months ago........taxi from the Sheraton to the Colombian consulate...$15........did'nt think anything of it......gave him the 15 bucks and a tip......

Taxi back to the hotel from the consulate $1.60 cents.....f**k.....I hate taxi drivers.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

Waterdawg says on Feb 10, 2008, 10:21:

hongo_joe says on Sunday February 10th, 2008 8:51:

"Panama : Been there , done that .. One dirty overpriced slum.."

The ignorant comments you can find on this site are mindboggling
........................................

Look Joe , I lived and worked there and that is my opinion ... Now you might not like it , but that dosn't make it Ignorant nor mind boggling ( two words ) ..

hongo_joe says on Feb 10, 2008, 13:53:

Actually it should have been mind-boggling. And, since you've been there, ridiculous is probably a better description.

Cerealkiller says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:01:

"Sorry even my Novia would rather move to the beach in Peru. or Costa Rica...for the price.."

Beachfront property in CR is worth millions of dollars. Colombia is cheap ass compared to CR when it comes to real estate.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:17:

I wish I was selling real estate to gringos in Costa Rica, I'd be LOADED and retired in Colombia!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:19:

you can always begin selling in Medellin...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

RAAAY says on Feb 10, 2008, 15:47:

I've still got that damn bridge in London..............

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

slguy says on Feb 10, 2008, 18:13:

maybe we can package that bridge with my (future) beachfront land in Phoenix?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

Brians says on Feb 11, 2008, 04:41:

I think what people forget when comparing Medellin to Panama is the fact that they have a 15 year major infrastructure project with the expansion of the canel. This has created a tremedous rental market joined with a very favorable enviroment for foreign investors and a dollar based economy. They are also a 3rd world country on the verge of becoming a 1st world country. These changes will take a lot longer in Colombia but I still think Colombia offers much better growth opportunities than the US or Europe. As far as Costa Rica I don't see how anyone can compare any of the central cities of Colombia as that is more a coastal investment theme.

hongo_joe says on Feb 11, 2008, 06:45:

For those of you who haven’t been to Panama I want to assure you that waterdawg’s comment above that Panama is “One dirty overpriced slum.� is a scurrilous lie. I have many Panamanian friends, and on their behalf I have posted some photos so you can judge for yourself.

The first four photos are of a residential neighborhood in Panama City called Allbrook. This is not a gated community or ‘hidden’, it is completely open to anyone. It is about 10 minutes from the commercial center of Panama City. The main street, shown below is quite a busy street. There are many residential neighborhoods of all types, commercial areas, and parks, throughout the city that are equally clean and well maintained.





The main street in the neighborhood




Dirty slums? Is it honest to describe this as a dirty slum?






The photo above is of Casco Viejo. A very old area in Panama City. Dirty slum??



The main street of a small village called Pedasi in the interior of Panama. Dirty slum?



Garita Beach. Look dirty to you?



El Toro Beach.



Isla Iguana beach. Dirty slum? If coconuts and driftwood are offensive, maybe.

OK. Now you can decide whether waterdawg’s comment is bullshit or not.

Of course there are areas in Panama that are more dirty and rundown – it is a third world country.

morphus says on Feb 11, 2008, 06:53:

Gringos only want to live in Poblado. The rest of Medellin is still cheap.

aztec says on Feb 11, 2008, 06:57:

Never been there. One thing that did surprise me was the small number of buildings with no bars on the doors and windows. In Bogota anything on the first or second floor probably has bars.

tejasmarcos says on Feb 11, 2008, 07:10:

HJ - those giant houses by Allbrook are the old military base barracks. They were snatched up a few years ago by savvy real estate investors who did quite well.

"They are also a 3rd world country on the verge of becoming a 1st world country"

- maybe in 20 years. Panama city has some of the worst infrastructure problems I have ever seen given their recent influx of foreign capital. 30,000 new units slated to go up and most of downtown is 1 lane roads with no street lights. Also, they have been debating water treatment for 15 years and are still no closer to a solution. In the meantime, they just keep pumping all the poop & pee into the bay right outside of Punta Patilla - it would take 10 years just to clean the sludge if the problem were corrected tomorrow.

- the government of Panama is still in their nascent phase. They are one of the least organized goverments for a country "on the verge". Alot of major multinationals & developers have pulled out of Panama for this very reason.

- Panama is a banana republic and will continue to be until their government matures. Their entire economy is based on tourism and the canal, although there has been a strong petroleum distribution (bio-fuels) movement over the last year or two.

- Also, where is the culture in Panama? I did not see much after living there 4 months.

- Finaly, the service sector in Panama is one of the worst in the world. They simply do not understand how to give good servive, even at the top hotels, it is pathetic. There were a few restaurants in PC that were different, but they were the exception.

- Panama has a loooooong way to go in my books.

- It does however have some nice spots to relax and unwind - much more of a vacation spot than a retirement/expat country.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

hongo_joe says on Feb 11, 2008, 07:43:

TM - I agree with most of your comment. As for the service sector, it is pretty bad, but compared to what? Colombia?

I don't know about comparing Panama City to Medellin, I think maybe a better comparison in Colombia would be with Cartagena or Barranquilla, and given a choice among those 3, I would chose Panama,

I think the thing that is going to be a problem for Colombia with respect to attracting retirees, apart from the image, is the huge hassle to get things done - like renting an apartment, getting services etc.
In Panama I rented a house with just my passport, high speed internet- got a credit card? no problem. In Colombia it was infinitely more difficult - guarantors, co-signers,...a big problem.

MitchAlvarez says on Feb 11, 2008, 07:47:

nice pictures of panama. im sure you found the cleanest spot to take pictures. :)
just kidding...

hey man u can keep your panama. yo no cambio a medallo for anything. :)

tomtom33 says on Feb 11, 2008, 07:51:

HJ - nice initials by the way. Things are just as fucked up in MDE for retirees. The only thing easy in MDE is getting laid. Everything else is very, very difficult.

Brians says on Feb 11, 2008, 07:56:

Agreed with TomTom. Colombia is not a destination for retirees. Safety concerns and banking hassles will keep it that way until they decide they want to lure this demographic. The second home law which we heard about earlier is a perfect example. Seems to have just disappeared. Anyway I think Colombia eventually will be a destination but if they want to compete with Costa Rica and Panama they need to change some laws. They will eventually.

tejasmarcos says on Feb 11, 2008, 08:04:

"The second home law which we heard about earlier is a perfect example. Seems to have just disappeared"

- nobody can track this? what happened to esteban, the medellin lawyer?

HJ - service is Medellin is pretty good for the most part. The city is pretty well organized and they are doing the right things in terms of anticipating growth. You are correct, Medellin & Panama are not good comparisons. It is hard to compare coastal latin american destinations to anything but other coastal destinations.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

sloopskipper says on Feb 11, 2008, 20:34:

hongo_joe, you didn't show the grey water, with sewage and toilet paper in the bay (and no beach in Panama City), or sewage on the streets, the holes in the sidewalks and the street, and the filthy diesel soot and construction dirt.


And PROBLEMS in Panamá (services are terrible), they called then legion because they were many! And many of your fotos are the old U.S. canal buildings.

Casco Viejo is next to San Phillipe which I find scary in the night. No comparison to Cartagena, or Viejo San Juan.


The main public transport in Panama City, articulated? Only when they wreck, which happens often.

You had better hope that Medellin in not the next Panama City!

It seems they generally hate Colombians here, and the gringos, not much better.

tejasmarcos says on Feb 11, 2008, 21:15:

yep - i think it is because they are jealous of the Colombians, but i picked up on that as well. the waitresses would snub my Colombian friends in restaurants.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

Robert Jorge says on Feb 11, 2008, 21:40:

The Panamanian women especially hate Colombianas. Just my observation in Miami. For fear of being deleted, I can't elaborate.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

Robert Jorge says on Feb 11, 2008, 21:43:

I shouldn't have said "hate". "Have a prejudice and certain animosity and resentment for" - in some cases.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

hongo_joe says on Feb 12, 2008, 05:48:

Sloopskipper: Of course you are right. Read the end of my post... My post was in response to the stupid comment that Panama is one dirty slum...which it isn't as the photos clearly show. It has good and bad, like everyplace.

robi666 says on Feb 12, 2008, 05:52:

It must be like hongo tell. People are not crazy. Not that many, anyway.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Lowell says on Feb 12, 2008, 07:25:

Panama? Lived there for 3 yrs. Boquete for 1 and PC for 2. Happy to leave. Since left, crime way up. The other month, finger shot off of friends wifre during home invasion. Film crew now in Panama for Bond movie repeatedly attacked by gangs, try to drive in the city, get in an accident and it'll be your fault no matter what, transito jerks, a newly revised anti American stance by govt (see ne visa law of only 30 days).....

Here in Colombia, I think that the service indudtry is worse, (I can'ty even get my order for hugo hit to be delivered without error),basic buss transactions harder, lack of support from personel selling high tec equip, more half assed work and more intentional ignorance.

For me, Colombia offers more pro's than con's.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

sloopskipper says on Feb 12, 2008, 07:37:

But, of course, hongo

hongo_joe says on Feb 12, 2008, 09:29:

Oy - it never ends. Well I'm not going to share my photos of beautiful Panamanian women

Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 12, 2008, 12:23:

I don't have a dog in this fight but I do have friends, Colombian friends, who moved to Panama City recently and LOVE being there as opposed to Bogota. Of course, they live out in the old Canal Zone, which is much more country than city.

robi666 says on Feb 12, 2008, 12:29:

Of course they love it there... they came from Bogota...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

tejasmarcos says on Feb 12, 2008, 14:47:

nice pics in this thread.

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

Sam Salmon says on Feb 12, 2008, 18:22:

I had no idea that the streets in Pedasi were paved I thought it was a one horse country pueblito.

Maybe having that crooked bitch Whatsherface Moscoso as President payed off (for a while).

' a la orden!'

Lowell says on Feb 13, 2008, 06:07:

Her or her family has property there. You should see the airstrip. Very nice. Most of the road out to there has been improved. Good fishing and surfing in the area.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"