Medellin featured in National Geographic

utopiacowboy says on Feb 15, 2005, 21:36:

Imagine. An article has appeared in an American magazine about Medellin and it focuses on the violence. I'm just shocked and dismayed. I don't know what to think.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Sam Salmon says on Feb 15, 2005, 21:43:

Keeps The Rif Raf Out Seriously do you want places like La Poblada littered with 200kg yanqui cabrones?
How about pasty faced midwesterners waddling along the sidewalks on La Setenta asking "y'all know where the football game is"?
Already Colombia is facing an invasion of hippie backpacker types.
Yesterday I saw a thread on the LPTT that had 5 posts about travellin' Colombia-not one negative.
There goes the 'hood!





' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

jaramillo says on Feb 16, 2005, 04:34:

Mr.Salmon If they said "Y'all" I'd taken them for southernrs!

lpdiver says on Feb 16, 2005, 04:45:

200KG Is a lot of yanqui!!!


T

"cook some rice!"

YEP says on Feb 16, 2005, 05:36:

could you enligthen me on LPTT !!
a link would suffice ;-)



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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

cremaster says on Feb 16, 2005, 08:13:

Yep It´s the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree.

a message board on www.lonely.planet.com

theres not a lot there, unless you´re a backpacker

Patrick

YEP says on Feb 16, 2005, 11:36:

Well one never know if tips from there could come in handy
Haven't watched yet .... but I'll give a a go ;-)


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

Dionysus says on Feb 16, 2005, 12:16:

March 2005? Is the March 2005 issue even out yet?

adrimm says on Feb 16, 2005, 12:57:

LPTT A great resource for independant and/or budget travellers, going just about anywhere. Amazing amounts of traffic on most branches so questions posted usually have a good turn-around time for answers.

I believe the post S Salmon refers to is this one:
http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=22&threadid=715945&messid=6077856&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1

adrimm says on Feb 16, 2005, 12:59:

LPTT addy correction www.lonelyplanet.com

select thorntree from left-hand menu.

Balkanboy says on Feb 16, 2005, 13:17:

Typical american one-sided story... What would you expect from gringo political propaganda that is so strong around the world....I can tell you a lot about these stereotype as I m from Serbia , country that had tons of problems similar to Colombia and were gringos made things worse and killed thousands after demonized my people im media and had moral right to do it...
Another thing is american adictivness to violence and stories whith blood and murders...its Holywood baby....unfortunately americans are bombed with this shit as early as in early childhood so most of them that dont explore the world beleive in this....dont foget,average american watches TV 35h a week and more than 1/2 of them never leaves their county...1/4 never leaves their county....after all I cant blame them ,It s the system and media control... on the long run , they are the victims on first place....
I ve been in Medellin(sep.-oct.) and I m going back soon....Te extrano mi Colombia quierida..nunca te olvido

Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 16, 2005, 13:22:

I take it you're a serb? You must be Serbian. They're the only people in the Balkans who think they're the victims of Americans instead of having been saved by them (albeit much too late.)

utopiacowboy says on Feb 16, 2005, 13:34:

There is one thing you can count on this site. The US is always the root of every one's problems. I love this guy. He comes from the Balkans of all places and he's lecturing us on violence. Yeah, buddy, last I heard, you guys and the Croats and the Bosnians and the Macedonians and the Slovenes were all one big happy family.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

YEP says on Feb 16, 2005, 16:27:

UC .......
You might be right about the US bashing here ;-)

But the last part of you statement is as bad ... if not worse than the "post" from Balkanboy.

And I hopefully can talk abou this as I know people from all sides on that conflict since they arrived here in 1992 ;-)

I've seen the physical and felt the psychological scars of the people from down there.





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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

utopiacowboy says on Feb 16, 2005, 19:57:

I don't think my statements were worse - maybe as bad but not worse. I just get sick and tired of these posts. He's got a lot of nerve lecturing about violence. He comes from one of the most violent places on earth. The site is supposed to be about Colombia but it may as well be about the District of Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

YEP says on Feb 17, 2005, 03:46:

I'm not challenging that per say .... what I challenge though

is that you continue on the same path ..... but OK we're only human ;-)

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Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

juanalejo says on Feb 17, 2005, 07:17:

Respect Why is it that Americans get so uptight when somebody comments on anything about their country? Freedom of speech is not only the right of being able to express yourself but also the right of being respected for your opinions and not simply disqualified for them. In this sense many Americans fail dramatically. In my opinion the media does have a large part in Americans ignorance of the rest of the world, most of the non Americans I have met, including myself, have had at one point or another an encounter with an American that has felt insulting do to the ignorance of the question asked by them. And not leaving the country because it is large is no excuse as Europeans who have a similar income have traveled every corner of Europe plus half of the world by the time Americans are asking for a passport. This is no US bashing but rather a constructive comment that should make Americans think, that contrary to what Hollywood shows Americans are not always liked or seen as heroes around the world. So if you want to be seen as the good people I am sure you all are, there has to be a change in the way the country’s image sells abroad as well in the attitude when meeting foreigners, as cultural awareness is very important and instead of always expecting the world to cater for you the American way.

greenday says on Feb 17, 2005, 07:50:

I remember when we had our civil war (the US, that is), not one Serb showed up to help...

BTW, I am an old fart and I like young Colombian women...

juanalejo says on Feb 17, 2005, 07:54:

Greenday Very ignorant comment, and then you wonder why Americans are not liked.

kernow62 says on Feb 17, 2005, 08:01:

BalkanBoy you are correct that Americans are bombarded with military propaganda all the time. I don't know too many other countries that actually have TV channels dedicated to military, wars and weapons 24 hours a day. Of course we always save the other country in the end, we are the good guys right. We also have channels that seem to show murder and true crime 24 hours a day. Is it any wonder we enjoy our weapons so much.

To be fair to balance things out we have 24 hours of tele-evangalists telling us we are right and muslims are wrong. I asked a local church leader why he was so against muslims he told me "because they are trying to convert people to their faith". Well excuse me but don't christians do the same. I told him that too. If looks could kill I would be dead now, he actually turned bright red it was scary.

Best thing to do is turn the TV off! Keep an open mind, and respect all human life as if your enemy were your brother and his family was your family.

I do like the National Geographic though!

utopiacowboy says on Feb 17, 2005, 08:39:

Tinto, that was probably the best post I have ever read on this site on any topic. Bases loaded home run for you, dude!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Miguel says on Feb 17, 2005, 10:14:

Tinto Excellent observations, although you must realize that "outside" of your circle, here in the US, those problems you alluded to exist bigtime in the hoods, along with drug use. As I have stated here before, there are areas less than five minutes from my home that are a hell of a lot more dangerous that many places I have been in Colombia.
I loved your reference to Miami and Orlando, Bogotá and Pasto.
Since UC is from Canada, I will forgive his baseball play by play error (although a small one)...It would be "a home run with the bases loaded".
Yes, at times, American English is a f--ked up as Spanish!
Thanks guys for your input.

dwmte says on Feb 17, 2005, 10:19:

ditto, tinto, i found the post readable and poignant without being laden with attacks...on either side.

i'm one of those who fell in love with colombia. can i tell you why? no. it was just my fate to grow up and end up working in other countries nearly all my adult life. as it turns out, i found colombia to be the most akin to my particular personality...dangers not withstanding. hell, i've seen dangerious shit from ethiopia to nigeria, to india, to guatemala, etc. it's everywhere. i just found i like colombia. better than the u.s.? i don't know. good question. i think maybe so in some respects. in others, no.

i'll probably retire there. i'm just used to living 'somewhere else'.

dw

viewpoint says on Feb 18, 2005, 03:26:

National Geographic Links
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0503/feature4/index.html

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0503/feature4/multimedia/multimedia.html

utopiacowboy says on Feb 18, 2005, 08:26:

Thanks for the links, Viewpoint. So that's what got everybody worked up. The article and pictures seemed to be pretty accurate in describing the parts of Medellin that rarely get discussed or described here.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

ColombianoX says on Feb 18, 2005, 09:22:

"It was a hard-working city, known then as the "City of Eternal Spring." "

"Known then"? It's ALWAYS been known as the "City of Eternal Spring".


"As another testament to Medellín's turnaround, plans are afoot to develop a cable car system that will connect the metro to the city's poor hillside barrios (neighborhoods that once fostered Escobar and his nefarious activities)."


The MetroCable opened last year!! Talk about poor investigating! And this guy works for a prestigious US magazine??


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

Moya says on Feb 19, 2005, 15:38:

That's life. I look forward to that article. My husband is from Medellin (well, Pereira, near enough) and on meeting him for the first time my family were terribly disappointed to discover he was not in fact a gold toothed, ferrari driving, revolver wielding drug lord. Go figure. Actually they had less excuse than some for preconceived ideas given that we are South African and for many years prior to Mandela's release those of us who failed to be exiled to the first world, or leave voluntarily, were prone to being lumped together at worst as an entire nation of ku klux klan wannabes, and at best as callous exploiters of the vulnerable, no matter how loudly we may have felt compelled to yell Amandla! in support of The Struggle.
I guess that's just human nature. If the media keeps feeding us these negativities we are the ones who keep buying them. Horizon broadening is something that happens naturally as we grow in wisdom and perception. It can't be forced.

toneloc24 says on Mar 9, 2005, 08:23:

Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Bought the magazine yesterday, specifically to read the article on Medellin. When in the hell did National Geographic start costing $4.95??? LOL!!!

Anyway, I knew that some of the reporting wouldn't be entirely accurate, so I went into this article already knowing that much. However, there is some very poignant, realistic story-telling within the article. Maybe it's negative, but it's very realistic, like it or not.

On sites like these (PBH, LP, etc.), we usually hear the narratives which accent the positives, but generally pertain to areas like El Poblado and the wealthier areas of Medellin. While the overwhelming majority of those who live in Medellin, live in a very different reality than we could try to comprehend.

- A uncorruptable cop who has an already paid-for bounty hanging over her head. She raises a family in this type of environment?

- A former movie star (Vendadora de las Rosas??? or The Rose Seller) who now works as prostitute to provide for her daughters. Doesn't sound as if she's a lazy, drug-ridden sort. Just out of options, and had to make a tough choice.

- The sicario is the sicario. It is what it is. I already knew that story a little too closely. Still, gotta admit. Dude knows his responsibility and does whatever he has to do to provide for his family. If there were better, more moralistic options that allowed him to provide for his family, sounds like he would. Part-time mechanics pay apparently won't cut it.

- The candy seller. My favorite story of them all. I'll look at these kids a little differently after reading this one. 10 yr old kid whose mother abandoned him. Stays with grandmother, who gives him 2.000 pesos each morning. After school, he buys candy with it. Eats one piece only, then sells the rest, bringing home 4.000 pesos to his grandmother and contributing to the house. I know this is not always the case, but maybe we should start looking at it from standpoint as well, as opposed to their sometimes aggrevating presence.

My thoughts in summation: definitely worth a read and a recommendation to those who forget/ignore the realities and gravity of the situation there. Before reading this, I was never one to pass judgement on how people make money to survive. After reading this, somewhat sitting in a position of privilege (i.e. born in the right place...yeah, I had a choice in that), I'm even less apt to do so. These people appear to be victims of the circumstances, right or wrong. Some would call them dangerous, at least we know a few more reasons why such a tag might apply.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

utopiacowboy says on Mar 9, 2005, 08:34:

I had a chance to read the article too and I agree with you, Toneloc24. A lot of people were complaining about it without having read it but after having read it, I have no complaints. It does make you stop and think.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

toneloc24 says on Mar 9, 2005, 11:38:

UC Kinda makes you appreciate the diatribes of folks like Elmo & Mrs. Gomez much more. While some of it is funny, some of it is quite ironic and a much more realistic view of daily life for the average person in some Colombian cities.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

HellenV says on Mar 11, 2005, 06:03:

Name & author Good Morning,
I really want to read this article.. would you be as kind as to give me the exact name of the article and its author?
I want to download it from my school's library, and tried the NG website but it is down. Thanks!

HellenV

100% Colombian & Proud!

100% Colombian & Proud!

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 11, 2005, 06:56:

Letter to the editor Apparently the Mayor of Medellin didn't appreciate the article that much, either. Here's the letter to the editor he wrote that's posted at their discussion forum:

Dear sir,

It is with great frustration I read the article that appears in the current English issue and online version of the National Geographic Magazine. Starting from the title, Medellín stories from an urban war and going through the “characters� recreated, the article is filled with old data (year 2003), imprecise references and common places that say nothing about the actual situation in Medellín.

For a long period of time, we have had to face accusations and all kind of negative remarks regarding Medellín. We have had to struggle with the label of the most violent city in the world, the city of the cartels. It is true that we had to face the narco-business, an unpredictable phenomena no one could have ever foreseen. But we dealt with it and we still do, just like the rest of the country, and like the consumer countries do.

Those times are gone and in the article of the March issue, it seems as if it happened just a week ago, which damages all our efforts and places Medellín again in the world scene as the most dangerous place, which is not.

I have never seen such a sensationalist ill-disposed article regarding our city, and believe me, I have seen many. The pictures and the picture notes, the inner-titles, the language, the description, the stories, are malicious, and add to present our city as if it was the worse place on earth: the most violent, the most corrupt, and the poorest.

I am sure there are murders all over the world, and I surely have never seen before in your magazine a picture (which is not even recent) showing to the world the homicides in New York or London or Washington. Likewise, with the photographs of the people in jail: surely you have, as we do, people in jail, but you never picture them like this in your Magazine. And the same goes for the kids sniffing glue: I have not seen yet a picture of the drug-addicts in New York or San Francisco.

We do not expect to hide our problems, but we do expect a professional approach to our city. We expect a journalist who does not take sides and who actually researches deeply to find what really is going on, instead of being carried away by the cliché Medellín bears. And most of all, we expect a journalistic coverage digs the current situation instead of publishing an article that is filled with old figures and non-accurate references and data.

You cannot start to imagine how much damage an article like this can cause to Medellín, particularly published in a Magazine as serious and well known as the National Geographic Magazine. It is hard for me to believe that you published it without even double checking if anything has changed since the time the article was written.

An article like this harms thousands of people who work, dream, and put all their effort to create new and better opportunities for everyone. It harms a city that has to deal with a tough past and a world wide reference that is not currently accurate.

For the record, and as the article that appears in the online edition states, the violence rates have been decreasing and now we have the average of a Latin American city. Sadly, this article, more positive although not completely accurate, does not appear in the printed issue.

2004 was the least violent year within two decades: we lowered our homicides rates per 100.000 inhabitants to 57. We are every time getting closer to cities as Washington (33,7), Detroit (48.9) and Baltimore (42.7). This year, we had 60 homicides in January, which means a reduction of 41.7% compared with 2004 (103 homicides were registered) and 71.7% in comparison with 2003 (when the homicides were 212).

Likewise, in February we had 60 homicides compared with 108 that occurred in the same period during 2004 (-44.4%). This shows a constant 41% less homicides per month. And, added to that, we must say that in Santo Domingo Savio, the neighbourhood quoted as the most violent in Medellín, the homicides have decreased more than 80%, and actually there are several programs that are being carried out with an emphasis in this area (comunas 1 and 2).

Just to name a few initiatives, we are working with the public schools of the area in order to improve the quality of education through an integrated approach that includes better teachers, infrastructure, technology, nutrition and interaction with the city. In this project we invested 78.820 million pesos in 2004 (US 34.269.565).

As well, the first (of four) public library-park will be built in Santo Domingo to allow the community a space for encounter, research and joy. We are also creating new public spaces in the area (parks, sports facilities, pedestrian bridges) and improving the existing ones to promote the development of open, alive and peaceful, neighbourhoods and living environments. Just in the Library, we are investing 8.190 million pesos (US 3’560.385).

Added to this, we are working with the Bank of the Opportunities and the Micro-credit Network in order to promote enterprise creation amongst the less-favoured people as a way to increase their life quality. We grant them loans (with the lowest rate interest in the market), advise (to create sustainable enterprises), training (in marketing, administration, communications and other entrepreneurship requirements), and continuous follow up. In 2004, in the Comunas 1 and 2, the Bank granted 1.033 million pesos in loans (US 449.130), the Microcredit Network 109 million pesos (US 41.976), and we began building the Centre for Entrepreneurship zone Development with 350 million pesos investment (US 152.174).

During 2004, in other different areas, such as health, the investment was 24.707 million pesos (1.0742.593); in different programs regarding vulnerable population it was 6.110 million pesos (US 2.656.726) and in the Integral Urban Project Metrocable, we will invest (up to 20007) 30.000 million pesos (US 13.043.478) in initiatives regarding citizenship participation, social proposals, school restaurants, parks and streets, new sport facilities and so on.

We want the world to know Medellín not only because of our past, but also for the challenges we are facing, for what we have achieved and for the great opportunities the city offers today.

I urge you and your team, particularly Eliza Griswold, to visit Medellín, to witness what really is going on in our neighbourhoods and streets, to acknowledge how we are working with and for the people and creating better living conditions for all, to learn how it is perfectly safe to be in any street of Medellín, how the police has presence in every single neighbourhood, how the community trusts them, and how our municipal investment is directed towards the less favoured people (52% of the budget is being invested in social welfare).

We deserve the opportunity to show the world what Medellín really stands for.


Sincerely,

SERGIO FAJARDO VALDERRAMA
Medellín’s Mayor

toneloc24 says on Mar 11, 2005, 07:10:

HellenV I don't think you can download the entire article. Just a part of it. I went ahead and bought the issue just to read the article.

Anyway, here's the link again. http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0503/feature4/index.html

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

utopiacowboy says on Mar 11, 2005, 07:20:

Good response by the mayor. He does a certain amount of whining about the article but he also goes on to show what has been done to change the reality of the situation in Medellin. That will do more to dispel these images of Medellin than all the indignation in the world. The drops in the numbers of homicides is impressive. If this trend can be maintained then the city deserves a return visit by National Geographic to show what has changed.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

toneloc24 says on Mar 11, 2005, 08:13:

I also commend the mayor for responding. Medellin is a safer city than before, I think we'd all agree. I wish him the best in his future efforts to provide better conditions for ALL residents there. I believe that he should take NG and the writer to task in 3-5 years, and invite them back to Medllin for an unsupervised follow-up visit.

However, I will take issue with two of his contentions in his statement.

1. The 2003 data used. When this story was being researched, more than likely the 2004 data was not available. Also, has the conditions changed so much in only 1 year? Homicides are down drastically, but they are still happening quite frequently. Is anyone here on the board prepared to say that downtown Medellin in safe at nights? Just saying that to say, the conditions still exist even if the numbers are lower.

2. Something about this following statement just rubbed me the wrong way. To me, it sounds like it's coming from an elitist stance, which is probably part of the problem there. He is representing one Medellin, or the "more-favoured" Medellin? Am I reading into this incorrectly?

"we are working with the Bank of the Opportunities and the Micro-credit Network in order to promote enterprise creation amongst the less-favoured people as a way to increase their life quality. We grant them loans (with the lowest rate interest in the market), advise (to create sustainable enterprises), training (in marketing, administration, communications and other entrepreneurship requirements), and continuous follow up."

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 11, 2005, 08:17:

Less-favoured Given the British spelling of "favoured" and the clunky phrasing I would chalk that up to simply a bad translation or an unfortunate choice of words by a non-native speaker. It sounds like an attempt to be poltically correct in order to avoid calling them "poor".

Agree about the 2003 data objection. It surely was the most recent data that existed at the time of the reporting.

ColombianoX says on Mar 11, 2005, 18:13:

I really liked this letter:


Name: Juan Valencia
E-mail: sebasv at geo.net,.co
Date/Time: March 11, 2005 5:39 PM

On your latest publication of your respectful and well-known National Geographic Magazine, you make a careless mistake allowing an out-dated, single-sided article go public without verifying sources and data.

When you make such statements over a city of over 3.5 million habitants based on minimum sources, you are condemning the entire population to live under the stigma of being born in the so called “the city of eternal violence� which by the way, I don’t know how you got this name.


The pictures you show reflect a reality with many corrupted biases, pushing an agenda of sensationalism. This kind of publication is what small tabloids use to sell more magazine units; it is a shame that the National Geographic magazine uses this resource to attract more readers. You, out of everybody should know better about the consequences of publishing wrong information; just to name a few, look at the events that forced the early retirement of CBS spokesman Dan Rather.


I can tell you, and I know more about Medellin than you do, since I was born, raced and educated in the streets of Medellin “the city of eternal spring� that your article is way out of line. In my 25 years in that city, I was never exposed to drugs. It was only when I arrived to an American High school as an exchange student that I saw such illicit drugs in abundance. I’m not trying to put down the U.S., I actually find this country as my second home, but wanted to show you that reality is much more different than what you publish in a single sided article.


I was raced a couple of blocks to were Pablo Escobar was killed, and attended the same high school in Medellin as did his son. And as you see I’m still alive, just as million of more citizens of Medellin that do their best to clean what was left from the drug war.


With your article you made serious and unrepairable damages to the city’s economy. Articles like yours only prevent foreign investors to look at Medellin as a city in which to invest. This article is a slap on the face of many people who work for a better future. In your article you forgot to mention that Santiago Botero, gold medalist and fifth placed in the Tour de France was born, and actually lives and trains in Medellin. You also forgot to mention that Alvaro Uribe, president of Colombia was also born in Medellin. You also forgot to mention, the other 3.5 million habitants that do good, and leave hoping for the best.


I can only hope that in the future you are more careful before publishing such articles, and somehow repair the damage you just caused to the city I love.

--------------------------------------------------------------

You tell 'em Juan!


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX says on Mar 11, 2005, 19:18:

and I loved this one too! Name: Natalia
E-mail: nataliaalexander52 at hotmail.com
Date/Time: March 10, 2005 4:27 PM

Dear so called journalist-
Haven’t you learned your lesson yet? How can you call your self a respectable journalist when all you write are opinion pieces posing as investigative articles? After what happened with the New York Times and you unfair judgments about Bangladesh as the next possible venue of Islamic revolution one would think you would do your research a little better this time. I checked your references and most of these articles are old. You chose to revive Pablo Escobar as if the cartel was in full force like in the 80’s. How much time did you really spend in Medellin before you made up your mind about the violence the drug problem? How many heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, oxicodon etc addicts did you see in Medellin?
How many needles in the streets? Let’s take a walk around Manhattan, Miami, Seattle or LA; cities were drug use is as common as taking aspirin and prostitution is a high end job and let us compare.
Although it is undeniable that Medellin is a violent city, be careful about your generalizations and titles like “the most dangerous city in the world� or comparing Medellin to a war zone like Iraq. Yes people get killed everyday in a violent way; yes there are drugs (being exported to the good old USA baby!); yes people are poor and have to recur to prostitution; yes the civil war in Colombia dates back to the 50’s. These are problems that occur EVERYWHERE in the world including the USA. How dare you report that kids in Medellin are killing each other because of boredom? What about Columbine and the hundreds of high school shootings in the US? Where those out of boredom? Or were these middle-class white Americans kids shooting their peers in self defense?

Your article makes a mockery of journalism. Your views are so slanted. It seems as if you were writing a Hollywood script full with sensationalistic remarks. Your deliberately chose to take the worst images of Medellin and call it the truth. I am sure you can make the same claims about the USA as the most violent nation in the world if you go to the streets of Washington DC and take nice pictures of the homeless, gangs and prostitutes that crowd the city. The thing it’s the most disheartening is that your editor let you get away with publishing this piece for a publication that in my mind was top dog in journalism. I am sure Jerry Springer would hire you in a heart bit as his producer! Or were you writing this article for network news full of all those warm fussy reports that we Americans love… another shooting… another sex scandal…more sex, violence and drugs…

WAY TO BE OBJECTIVE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC!! YOU ARE SURE REDEFINING THE CONCEPT!

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

utopiacowboy says on Mar 11, 2005, 21:01:

She's right. In every city there are 100,000 children who are out selling candy to make a living for their families.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

daver says on Mar 11, 2005, 21:22:

yeah And every country in world has a civil war dating back to the 1950s. I mean, I can understand having objections the article, but nataliaalexander52 at hotmail.com letter us utter crap.

100s of high-school shootings in the USA. Honestly... hundreds? This letter is about a million times more slanted than the NG magazine.

And she is blaming NG for the NY Times judgement on Bangledesh? Why not blame Colombia for North Korea's weapons programme.

"Manhattan, Miami, Seattle or LA; cities were drug use is as common as taking aspirin and prostitution is a high end job"

hmmmmm.... not too sure about that. I mean hookers make good money (some) but the real high-end jobs pay quite a bit more. And either I missed the boat or people are taking a hell of lot less aspirin.

The mayor of Medellin can handle this one, and he did quite a good job (I didn't like the NG article either). That last letter makes Colombia look 100 times worse than National Geographic did.

daver says on Mar 11, 2005, 21:30:

Mr Hollywood (off topic) "Given the British spelling of "favoured" and the clunky phrasing I would chalk that up to simply a bad translation or an unfortunate choice of words by a non-native speaker"

No big deal, really, but "favoured" is english "favored" is American. "favoured" is used in the UK, Austrailia, New Zealand, South Africa, Jamaca, Canada.... and every other nation that speaks english with the exception of the USA.

Like I said, its really no big deal, but to spell a word using real English, and not American English, does not mean there is a bad translation or a "non-native" speaker. Next your are going to tell me that "Zed" is something the British used to replace "Zee" at the end of the British alphabet :)


Not really on topic, but I couldn't resist!

Peace...

Daver

toneloc24 says on Mar 11, 2005, 22:05:

Sounds like letters from people in the position to be able to respond as they do. I sincerely doubt that Pablo Escobar's kid went to a regular high school either. But then, I'm assuming the only accurate depiction of Medellin to some of these folks, is the author's depiction of "The Debutante" getting ready for her quinceanera. Every paisa lives like that.

These 5 stories are of what appear to be regular people who don't even know what National Geographic is. Only 2 of the 5 stories even touch on violence. After reading this article for a 2nd time, I sincerely doubt there was any malicious intent to purposely show Medellin in this light.

Ever been in a city (Bogota, Medellin, Rio, Lima, etc...even parts of Barranquilla) and seen the many shacks on the hills, and continuously warned to never go there? Why? It's dangerous. Apparently, someone went to such areas and reported. WE NEVER HEAR THIS SIDE OF THINGS, unless someone like Elmo or Mrs. Gomez are telling us.

To not allow another version of things to be discussed or reported, maybe a different but still truthful version of what you might have experienced, is that being objective?

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

ColombianoX says on Mar 11, 2005, 22:56:

"She's right. In every city there are 100,000 children who are out selling candy to make a living for their families."

Utopia,

In MANY other cities in latin american and the third world, yes there are!

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX says on Mar 12, 2005, 09:47:

"Granted, there is a two-page photo of prison scum and half a barrio, including children under age three staring at a bloody corpse -- those are the images the reader will carry in their minds. They probably should have thrown in a picture of a local park or a Botero sculpture garden for balance - not to act as a tourism promoter - but to show the contrast of death and beauty in Colombia.

If I was editing the story, I would have asked for one more profile. Forget about wasting photo space on the yuppies-to-be on the golf course, they should have profiled a non-slum dwelling, non-governnment employee in the working/middle class. An office worker or a small business owner - a regular Jose - would have rounded out story."


Vey good, Tinto, I agree with what you said, the article was NOT very well balanced, and that's why the people of Medellin are so offended. I mean what's the purpose of wasting two entire pages on the shot of those intimidating prisoners? Heck, I saw about a dozen guys who look like that in South Beach last week!

Man, are those paisas pissed, and I'm glad to see such an outpouring of outrage by so many colombians, not just the medellinenses. Maybe they'll think it twice and try to be a little more balanced the next time.

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 12, 2005, 10:03:

Dear Dave I thought in Canada you speak "Canuck" and French? Now you're trying to tell me you speak English, too?

On another note, I think from the tone of so many of these letters that Colombians, who are some tough people in general, really need to get a thicker skin. First, when did National Geographic say it was an "objective", "news" magazine? It's really the ultimate feature magazine, and features are by definition subjective and somewhat impressionistic.

Also, NG does these kind of stories about all kinds of cities. They've done stories about crack cocaine in NYC, they've done stories about the history of assassains in the middle east, etc. It's not really their beat to write a big cheery story about people shopping in malls in El Poblado.

I think the Mayor's letter raised fair objections to the article. Many of the rest are way out of line or simply show that they don't understand journalism.

vladimiro says on Mar 12, 2005, 10:20:

Haven't seen the article but nobody wants National Geographic to show the "pond scum" of thier country and since this site is devoted to Colombia the indignation seems quite normal and appropriate to me:)

"Look at the full moon, how it has disrupted our sleep,
It shines from the seventh sky at our homeland in ruins" -Rumi

daver says on Mar 12, 2005, 11:05:

Hollywood "I thought in Canada you speak "Canuck" and French"

I guess I had that coming to me!

No hard feelings, eh?

Dave

PS. Canadian French is aboot as understandable as Chinese to someone from France...

utopiacowboy says on Mar 12, 2005, 11:57:

So I guess, Colombianox, you're telling me that Medellin is right up there with Lagos, Nigeria when it comes to child candy sellers. Personally I think they should aim a little higher than that. And I don't care about the metrocable or the metro - those things don't feed or educate anyone. Typical Third World. Fancy monuments while the people starve.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 12, 2005, 12:02:

Daver, don't go there. They can understand us perfectly well although they look down their noses at our Quebecois French. Personally I am proud of speaking French like a Quebecois and the frogs can all go to hell. Maudits cochons!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

toneloc24 says on Mar 12, 2005, 12:42:

Still not understanding the outrage over 2 pages of the prisoners. Maybe they could've shown something else in these two pages, but these are only 2 pages out of 20 pages in the entire article.

So let me guess, it's okay to show 2 pages of party-goers at Mango's, because every person in Medellin lives like that.

Or, it's okay to show 2 pages of two 7 yr olds playing golf at a country club, because, heaven knows, every 7 yr old in Medellin lives like that.

Where's the outrage in those portrayals?

Yes, the article could've been a little more balanced, but people seem to want to ignore the stark reality of the situation there.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

daver says on Mar 12, 2005, 16:23:

Cowboy Hmmm... I didn't know the Parisians were faking it.... I thought they couldn't understand.

Oh well, I am proud that I live in a country that has the largest French population that has never surrendered to Germany....


Dave

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 12, 2005, 17:13:

Never surrendered I don't think the 50 million French-speaking Congolese ever surrendered to the Germans either.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 12, 2005, 19:09:

They will act like they don't understand you but I have spoken French many times to Frenchmen and in fact, they were always able to understand me. However they always added a comment that I spoke Quebecois French. Always tempted to reply "Et qu'est-il à vous?"

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

juanalejo says on Mar 12, 2005, 20:22:

UC I think it is very ignorant of you to say that the metrocable is a third world fancy monument. It is precisely and exclusively the hard working poorest people that live in the high hills around the city, who benefit from seeing the family more time after not having to walk for another hour to reach home. So I guess being at home till later in the morning and earlier in the evening is not quality family life for the benefit of children.

daver says on Mar 12, 2005, 21:09:

Hollywood So the games begin:

Ok, the Congo never surrendered to Germany, but they must have to France, else they wouldn't have French as their official language. I would not consider them French people, just like people of the Philippines were not really considered Spanish even though they were forced to accept the language as being "official".

There are over 200 languages spoken in the Congo. Congonese people are not "French".

French Canadians (sorry, Canadiens) draw their routes dircetly from France (particularly from Britany and Normandy) and are 7 million strong. They are, in fact, French people, not french speaking conquered people.

China never surrendered to Germany either, and if for some reason, they were conquered by France, and FORCED to accept french as their official language, it would not change the fact that CANADA ROCKS!

Anywhoo,

As far as French people go, Canada has the best!!! Love it or like it.

Daver

daver says on Mar 12, 2005, 21:12:

To Everyone:

Sorry for being off topic...

Daver

toneloc24 says on Mar 13, 2005, 01:00:

Stay on topic, mofos!!!!

I'm trying to learn something about that other Colombia.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

utopiacowboy says on Mar 13, 2005, 14:18:

You're right, Juanalejo. The 100,000 child candy sellers can all enjoy a ride on the metrocable. What was I thinking of?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Dolfi says on Mar 14, 2005, 04:28:

The Congo was a colony of Belgium, not of France.

juanalejo says on Mar 14, 2005, 04:41:

UC Not all of them, as many do not live around that area.

toneloc24 says on Mar 14, 2005, 08:25:

Tinto Some good that letter-writing campaign will do.

Haven't been out to the NG forum. Honestly don't think I'm all that interested in reading that stuff. Sorry to hear it's evolved to that.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"