Maria Full of Grace Oscar nomination? It came at a cost that is too high for me!

pachovia says on Mar 2, 2005, 21:17:

So true, media has done so much damage to Colombia’s reputation. When I tell people I go their, the people always talk about drugs rebels or kidnapping. People think I’m going to get shot walking off the plane.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 2, 2005, 21:36:

There are really several facets to this. First of all, the popular images of Colombia have a basis in reality. It is the world's largest supplier of cocaine. It is one of the most violent countries on earth. It is a country wracked with a seemingly never-ending civil war. For most non-Colombians, that's where it starts and ends. The other side, which few people see, is that there is a lot more to Colombia than this. The problem is that few people experience this side of Colombia unless they have some direct connection to the country. It's really an uphill battle and I'd have to agree with you Gomezman that the movie did more harm than good in this fight.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 2, 2005, 21:48:

Exactly UTC I did not intend to reiterate the almost daily postings about the ongoing problems of Colombia's poltical situation in terms of drugs violence, civil war, etc.

I hope people will respond to what I am bringing up here reagarding whether getting the Oscar nomination was worth it in light of the negative exposure that is conveyed from the very first minute of the film.

I simply contend that Colombia does not need an Oscar nomination if it comes at the cost of portraying her as the movie does.

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ColombianoX says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:00:

I absolutely agree with everything that Gomezman states. Unfortunately, Colombia is always portrayed in a very one-sided manner (negative!) by the film industry, and Maria Full of Grace was not the exception. I remember when the movie came out I labeled it as another anti-colombian movie because this was just another film that will only reinforce negative stereotypes about Colombia and colombians. The ending of the movie, in which Maria decides to stay in the USA and not return to Colombia, just puts the exclamation point on making Colombia seem like a hopeless, miserable place where her child won't have any future. But I don't buy that ending because in Colombia, her child could perhaps grow up to be the next Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Shakira, Juan Pablo Montoya, Fernando Botero, or even the next Catalina Sandino Moreno!

Now, in Maria full of Grace's case, this negativity, or as I prefer to call it, anti-colombianess, doesn't surprise me since it was written and directed by a non-colombian, but what is truly disapointing, is that many colombian movies made by colombian filmmakers are equally negative. It's a shame that there are colombians willing to participate in films that only help to further sully Colombia, but sadly I know that some colombians are willing to do almost anything to make a buck.

Like I said before, Catalina's nomination gave me mixed-feelings, such nice attention that it brought to "one of our own", but what a shame it had to be for this type of movie.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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fzrdan says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:01:

I hear Colombians complaining about the same types of movies about Colombia over and over. What kind of movie do you want?

As for the nomination, I will restate some of the things I said to you on Oscar night Gomezman. The nomination will not mean anything for Catalina unless she was to win (she didn't) or somehow can get a bigger movie out of it (likely). I bet you most people do not know she is from Colombia and if they did, so what? Why would they care? Just because there was one good actress from Colombia doesn't mean peoples perception of Colombia will change. Do you think JPM and Shakira have changed the general publics perception of Colombia? I don't think so. All those folks have done is made it to the big time and made other Colombians proud. Maybe people like that should do more to help portray Colombia in a more positive light. Then again, maybe they do and I just don't know about it.

I am afraid that Catalina will do whatever she can to make her way to stardom and not use that stardom to help the reputation of Colombia. Many people idolize celebrities and these celebrities could do a lot to help Colombias reputation around the world.

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ColombianoX says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:20:

"I hear Colombians complaining about the same types of movies about Colombia over and over. What kind of movie do you want?"

fzrdan,

You seem like an intelligent guy, but come one, what kind of a question is that? Here's the answer: a POSITIVE one!! One that isn't just about drug-traffickers, mules, guerrillas, sicarios, or violence! Is that too much to ask?


"Just because there was one good actress from Colombia doesn't mean peoples perception of Colombia will change. Do you think JPM and Shakira have changed the general publics perception of Colombia? I don't think so."

I disagree. Yes, I do believe these celebrities have changed some people's perception of Colombia because when they know those people are from Colombia, they'll know that good things can also come from our country. Now they can actually hace a positive reference point to Colombia.

"I am afraid that Catalina will do whatever she can to make her way to stardom and not use that stardom to help the reputation of Colombia. Many people idolize celebrities and these celebrities could do a lot to help Colombias reputation around the world."

Here I do have to agree with you. Catalina, for example, would have given great exposure to Colombia's growing fashion industry by having worn a dress by a colombian designer to the Oscar's. She could also have worn colombian emeralds as jewelry and when interviewed talked about how Colombia is the world's leading producer of this beautiful gem. Someone in her shoes can do so much for Colombia's image, too bad she doesn't think like me.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:23:

Fzrdan.......You are completely missing the point I think this silly comment, "What kind of movie do you want?", prooves that you are utterly clueless despite the fact that both myself and ColX have made our positions clear and that the Oscar nomination did more damage to the country than good.

My I also add that you start to develop some sensitity to how "we" Colombians feel before the love of your life gets to town. Because she already knows how the whole world maligns Colombia while she is living in Cali. When she gets here, she is going to see and read a hell of a lot more in the media....especially news outlets like Univison. If you accuse her of whining like you accuse all of us, you will probably have a big problem on your hand. So no better time to be sensitive than now. If you don't do it for our sake, then do it for the sake of your future love.

In any event, I want to stick to the theme that I have presented, and I will not debate the issue again with you. You have made your point all to clear the other day. I want to see what others feel.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:27:

Good Job ColX---- Amazingingly, or maybe it's not so amazing, we both took issue with Fzrdan's exact same line......So FZR....let's here from others.

ColX, FZr will be convinced of nothing. I debated this issue the other day. I really want to get as many opinions as I can on this

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Miguel says on Mar 2, 2005, 23:55:

IMHO I understand a Colombian's mixed reaction to the movie and the nomination; it's great to see such a young and talented colombiana get world acclaim and sad to see the perception of Colombia stereotyped, again. Gomezman's suggestion to use "sensitivity" is wise.

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Sr Tertius says on Mar 3, 2005, 00:05:

Since you asked... Gomezman, CX, I agree with you on one point: the movie reproduces, to a great extent, the stereotypes that exist about Colombia. I must admit here that I haven't seen it yet (plan to, though), but I have read plenty of synopses and commentaries to have a good idea of what it is about. The fact that it obtained an Oscar nomination, and the exposure that that implies, certainly doesn't help: more than one person who would've otherwise not seen the movie, will see it and it will reinforce some ideas about how things are in Colombia.

Now, here comes my disagreement: SO WHAT? If we want to start changing the perception of Colombia, let's start by changing its reality. When more than half of our population lives in poverty, it seems quite frivolous to worry about what other people think about us. How can anyone expect other people not to think of us in terms of war and drugs, when our very own president is intensifying the conflict, aligning himself with the least popular leader in the know universe, and we are the main source of cocaine and heroine (unless Afghanistan beat us on the latter). To pretend that these things don't exist or that we can hide them from public view is, like we say, trying to cover the sun with our hands. Narratives of a country are necessarily connected to the reality of that country. It is not a coincidence that most of our great literature is about bloody war, from La Vorágine to Cien Años de Soledad. That's our history... hell, that's us.

García Márquez is as part of our "colombianess" as the FARC, and good cocaine is as Colombian as good coffee. Like EVERYONE else, we are a mixed bag. Tough luck. And if a suburbanite in the US watching "Maria..." in his DVD player cannot understand that, too bad for him.

I am not advocating for fatalism here: things can change. But we should not confuse the things themselves with how they look to others. All I am saying is that my responsibility to my country precedes my role as international propagandist.

In fact, our obsessive preoccupation with our image abroad has actually been, IMHO, somewhat destructive. In the case of the war on drugs, we never debate the possibility of legalizing the whole chain of the drug business within our territory. The discussion is always precluded in the same way: we would become a pariah nation. Well, maybe, yes, and the economic and political consequences of such event cannot be minimized. But we never use this possibility to gain leverage against the US and the EU. They know we wouldn't do it: we are too well behaved.

"I am alone, and they are all together"
Denis de Rougemont, on a 1936 Nazi rally

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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kernow62 says on Mar 3, 2005, 04:18:

The movie portrayed a real part of Colombia, used actors with authentic Colombian accents, and did not glorify this lifestyle. Certainly those who want to portray another side of Colombia would rather it be a different topic, but the way it treated this topic was very well done. I applaud the fact that it did not glorify this lifestyle, if it had been a typical Hollywood movie about this topic then I would be upset.

There have been some very nice films out of Mexico that don't always portray the bad side, there are also a lot of shoot 'em up drug dealer type movies that glorify this lifestyle. As Colombia appears to become safer, more movies will be made in and about Colombia and perhaps then you will see a more balanced perspective.

One of the best films I have seen is about growing up in the slums of Rio and seeing how little life means to some and how precious it is to others, it was a very violent film, it was hailed by critics and audiences worldwide. The movie is "City of God". If Brazillians complained about its portrayal of life in Brazil they probably did it from their comfy homes in the US, far removed from the reality of this picture.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 05:14:

Sr Tertius Thanks for the very well reasoned response. You make some good point.
May I say however that it is not my intention to suggest that Colombians deny the reality of the problems that confront us. The problem is that everyone in the entire world already knows about the image of Colombia as expressed in the film. At this point, denial, or pretending it did not exist would be a virtual impossibility.

At the same time, rarely does an outsider even have a clue about how modern and beautiful Colombia is. It would even been nice to show a scene or two that picture a modern building or shoping mall. But instead the film concentrated on some of the poorest rural areas and the seediest barrios in Bogota'. After viewing the film, my gringo friends said, "How can you go to such a backward country?" == or some words to that affect.

You know something? It is human nature to always dwell and concentrate on the negatives. You can be a great person with many many fine attributes that makes you when hell of a human being. But if you have one or two negative points, and if I always described you in terms of one of those negative points, eveyone around you will only know you in terms of that one negative point and will never see all the positive in you.

The same is true here. Only the negative and not a single positive virtue is displayed in film.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 05:25:

Kernow.... Thanks for your response. I am not suggesting that it glorifies this lifestyle. In some sense, it shows how desperate the people are to improve their situation, that they will resort to almost any type of illegal activity to accomlish that end.

Mexico, has had made some fantastic films. I agree. I must admit, you would never know that either after watching the rediculous Mexican films that Univision always televises. They always happen to choose the ones that have very simple plots that center arouned,
sex,drugs,alchohol,and the pistola.

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elmodefoque says on Mar 3, 2005, 05:26:

you guys are way to serious. people are begging for your leftovers all over colombia and you're worried about colombian potrait in a bad light. we should be more ashamed of how miserable we treat the very poor.
have you guys seen "maria llena de grasa" is about a very fat drug mule.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 06:55:

Well ELMO You have a point. But Maria es muy Flaca y grasa no tiene.

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kernow62 says on Mar 3, 2005, 06:55:

Elmo if that is the only concern of the posters I would agree with you, but it is simply one facet of Colombia. One can be concerned about both topics at the same time without giving preference to either, or one can discuss this movie topic whilst giving greater importance to the needs of the poor.

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fzrdan says on Mar 3, 2005, 06:57:

CX and Gomezman, I didn't miss any point and I am not utterly clueless. My question is a legitimate one. What kind of movie do you want to see about Colombia? A fluff piece about a vacation in Cartagena? How about following some people during carnaval in Barranquilla? Maybe a movie about JPM or Shakira? What kind of movie do you want to see that is about Colombia, and it is clear in the movie that is about Colombia? Sure, have a movie that shows the life of a few privileged folks and that is going to help Colombia? I don't think so.

Gomezman, develop some sensitivity for how you Colombians feel? Since when was this a touchy, feely stroke your ego site? Everyone here tends to say exactly how they feel. As for my novia, I can tell you we have discussed some issues just like this. She is intelligent and understands there is good reason for peoples perception of Colombia. I will not sanitize my feelings for her and she does not want me too. She lives the reality of Colombia everyday. That tends to happen when you SEE people killed in your own neighborhood. When your brother is in the Colombian army fighting his own countrymen. The list could go on for awhile.

And gomezman and cx, you sit here in the US wishing the image of your beloved country was better. Why are you both in the US? Why don't you live in Colombia? Why is the US Embassy full of people everyday trying to get a visa? Why do the parents of my novia dream of going to the US? Because the reality is that Colombia is full of problems and poverty. Sure, try and distort that reality with a touchy feely stroke your ego movie.

CX, how many people do you think JPM and Shakira (and others) have converted to thinking Colombia is not all bad? Sure, maybe a few but not enough. If that were the case, I wouldn't get the same reaction from everyone I tell that I have been visiting Colombia. I was at the dentist the other day and I told him I went to Colombia. He said 'What, why Colombia? Is it very dangerous there?' This is an educated man but he still has the same perception as everyone else. I have many friends that are big F1 fans and they know Montoya is Colombian. Guess what, they all ask me why the hell I would go to Colombia. You live in fantasy land if you think these Colombian celebrities have done enough to help the image of Colombia. They could do so much more.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 07:08:

Fzr Your answer is totally unresponsive to the issue I raise. I will not even address your post

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fzrdan says on Mar 3, 2005, 07:11:

So why do you feel you need to tell me it is unresponsive?

You want me to solve Colombias problmes in this one thread? OK. Stop all the corruption and violence. Find a way for all the folks involved in the drug business to make a decent living in a decent job. Now peoples perception will change.

And I agree with sr tertius. Maybe the important issue isn't the perception but the real problems that exist. You seem to be more concerned (at least at this time) about peoples perception of Colombia than the real problems that face Colombians LIVING in Colombia everyday. Changing the perception of a few movie goers in suburbia USA isn't going to change the reality of the poor kids in Colombia.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 3, 2005, 07:26:

Another Devil's advocate here. I'm going to argue that Maria Llena IS a positive movie about Colombia and Colombians. Sure, it deals with drug trafficking, but, then again, if you were to judge the US by most feature films about it you'd have to assume that 90% of the US population are either cops or lawyers. Maria is a complex character, motivated by complex needs and pressures. She faces moral dilemnas and makes some bad choices. In the end she makes courageous choice. It's light years forward from "A Clear and Present Danger" or those kind of films where the Colombians are simply Uzi-toting caricatures.

I agree with FZRDAN when he asks what kind of film would you really want about Colombia? Or to put it another way, what movie would you and a couple million other people pay to SEE about Colombia? Don't hold your breath to see "Driving Miss Daisy" or "The Little Mermaid" being transposed onto Colombia.

Finally, if you want to look at the example of Mexico, consider that Mexico MAKES dozens of great movies about itself. If you want a Colombian "Like Water for Chocolate" or "Y Tu Mama Tambien," then Colombians need to step up and do it.

I do know that "Love in the Time of Cholera" is being produced as a movie. That's a pretty sweet story, though it is full of violence and catastrophe, too. Guess you've gotta take the good with the bad.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 07:56:

Hollywood I never said that the film has to be about Colombia. Where does anybody even remotely sugget that I said that?

While I agree with you that Maria is displayed as a complex character,having to make serious decisions. This kind of character development can be expressed without reverting back to the drug issue.

Don't you think it is possible Colombia can come up with movies like "The Aviator", or "Million Dollar baby." Does the drugs, and the poverty and the desperate state of affairs have to be repeated again and again and again??????? I don't think so?

In other words, the only way a movie becomes famous from Colombia is when it is about sicarios, mafiosos, drugs, and violence....really?

I think not.

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fzrdan says on Mar 3, 2005, 08:13:

OK Gomezman, one more comment then I will leave this thread. If the movie is not about Colombia, what is the point? The Aviator or Million Dollar Baby type of movie must have characters based on Colombia or why have this discussion? I will not come back to this thread to see your answer.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 3, 2005, 08:17:

Then I misunderstood you If you're not talking about movies treating Colombia as a subject or a backdrop for a story then I don't really understand what your concern is? You want a "Kramer vs. Kramer" that just happens to be located in Usaquen? Or for someone say that "The Matrix" is really a movie about Colombia? You've lost me if your concern isn't about Colombia being positively or negatively portrayed in films.

Maria Llena Eres de Gracia, by the way, is not FROM Colombia. It's ABOUT Colombia. It was written, directed and produced by Americans. It was shot in Ecuador (which itself says something not so nice about Colombia. Joshua Marston tried to shoot it here but couldn't get production insurance.) Thankfully, it employed a bunch of Colombian actors and brought Catalino Sandino to worldwide acclaim.

I respect your opinion but I think that in general Colombians are awfully thin-skinned about their country's image. I get frustrated, too, when I go back to the states and 85% of the people I mention Colombia to make some sort of cocaine joke. But I agree with Sr. Tertius's statement above that Colombia should strive to change its reality first rather than fighting a continual battle against an image that's got a solid basis in fact. And if Colombia wants to promote the other wonderful things about the country, then more power to you. That costs money, sweat and a lot of labor. That's that job of chambers of commerce, tourism boards and other governmental or quasi-governmental agencies, NOT the job of filmakers trying to make a movie that will sell tickets.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 08:37:

Hollywood---some good point and.... Pardon my ignorance, but I did not know it was filmed in Equador.

The point I am making is that I did not mean to bring up a thread that just complains about the image of Colombia. I wanted people's feelings about the value of the Oscar, at the cost of producing a movie that perpetuates the notion that Colombia is the type of country that it is commonly portrayed as.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 3, 2005, 08:57:

Thanks for clarifying that Now I understand your point.

I would say that the value for Colombia from Maria... is being recognized as a real country full of real people dealing with real (not storybook) problems via the success of this movie. I think the net effect is positive. I know the drug thing is a cliche. I understand why it bugs you. Then again, courageous astronauts, good-looking fighter pilots, hookers with hearts of gold, and crusading lawyers with big boobs are cliches, too, and it hasn't hurt my country.

Colombia's biggest problem, internationally, is not ignorance but, rather, being ignored.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 3, 2005, 09:14:

Julia Roberts Now that you mention it, I guess I made two Julia Roberts references. I once read an article about the guy who "enhances" the appearance of small-breasted actresses like Julia for roles like that. It's a lot of work. Personally, I like her better in natural form.

Everybody needs to earn a living, I guess.

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dwmte says on Mar 3, 2005, 09:38:

more on the subject Greetings to all you Colombia writers and cheers for your thoughts, observations and opinions regarding the movie, “maria� and actress Catalina who received her nomination for her work in the film.

I find it interesting the various points of view voiced by many and more so, I am taken by the fact that so few of you see Colombia at all in these observations. The two of you who are the most staunch defenders of Colombia’s virtues are, in my opinion, the largest deniers of the deeply set problems that beset Colombia.

Others of you thought that the girl deserved the honor even though it continued the portrayal of Colombia in the ‘drug light’ and others who felt that her award was not worth the cost.

Some of you who staunchly defend Colombia—and believe me, I understand why—I often wonder if you’ve ever really SEEN Colombia. Touched her poor and pleading, the dispossessed and downtrodden. Those without education, home, family and worst of all, hope? Have you ever ventured into the ghettos/barrios where many die, unknown on the streets; not just from violence, but from hunger and exposure. You can be 500 yards from downtown Medellin, and smack in the heart of one of the most dangerous places in all of Colombia…Nikitau. Life’s cheap there. In fact, it has just about zero value. You or I couldn’t walk through there at night and live. Never. Too, there’s Triste, where hopelessness fosters a desperation that will try anything that might, just might, change the sadness and gloom that life therein reflects. Or the eastern barrios of Bello, the university of the sicarios. Therein desperation gives birth to the mule. To those who whould deny their very parents/family if it held even the faintest glimmer of hope that one might exit that living death.

Do you people realize that the habitants of these deathly innercity barrios have no clue who Colombia’s , famous artists, painters, sculptors, writers, philosophers, thinkers, scientists, are? Or were? Absolutely no clue. What they do have a clue about is hunger, oppression, violence, abuse, suffering, murder, rape, etc. they know all these by heart, so deeply that were they extricated from these settings, the putrid memories would remain all the days of their lives. As wit, Mrs. Gomez, or even Elmos’s posts.

I laud Elmo and Mrs Gomez for their honesty. They really pull the blinds back and lay bear the reality, that 99.999% of Colombians live under.

I honestly think, for a gringo, I got a hands on view of Colombia that even few Colombians get. Actually most wouldn’t want. I saw your beloved land from the Presidential Inauguration, to the home of sicarios in Bello. While living alone in Llano Grande, I taught English to the children of campesinos—for free—and was threatened by the rich because I demanded payment for classes for their children.

The rich in Colombia do not want to break the ‘status quo’. They like it just like it is. They love their priviledge and if it means hundreds going with out for them to have, they’re all for it. They don’t even want it to change. We’ve gone on and on in this thread about Juan Pablo Montoya and Shikira and others, Hell, we’re talking a hand full of folks, vis-à-vis millions. And these priviledged few, if they do ANYTHING, for the have nots, it’s not even enough.

We’re I to remotely suggest someone who has touched the lives of Colombians from the selva, to the cities, from the barrios to the congressmen, it would be Jorge Barron. He does something. Or he did and was doing so until I left a few years back. In my opinion, he would make a good person in politics, as he is so widely known and experienced in Colombia. And he touches people, from high to low. But this is all an aside.

We’re talking about Colombia in the world. Colombia IS fantastic, beautiful, exotic, rare, talented, creative, multi-faceted….but She is also, lethal, poverty stricken, hungry, angry, violent, abused and corrupt, not to mention ignorant and uneducated.

Is it really in Her interest to laud the one and occult the other? I mean really? Personally, I think not. Colombia is who she is, and she is incredible.

I am saddened when I see so much lucha between Mr. Gomez, Colombiano, Fsrdan, Tertius, Miguel, Kernow, Hollywood, Elmo, et al. Why? Because you are the very people who care. Who really care. Who care enough to read, study, travel, post all that you see, feel, learn, know, ect. Let me tell you, if I took some of the down and outs from down town Medellin—for instance—they could give a shit. What they’ld like is less hunger, a roof over their head, less violence and being safe from preditors. They could give a f…k about Oscars…if they even know what an Oscar is. And movies portraying Colombia….all they know is the down side of Colombia, whether the rest of the world know it or not….and they’re 99 % of the Colombians. The have nots.

The wise, the you’s and me’s, the rich and the poor, need to give of ourselves to raise up the life and hopes of these people. Not film makers in Hollywood. It’s everyone of us, like Mother Theresa, who, first hand, see the reality and there, in the midsts of suffering, are the best and most qualified to do something about it.

To have an opinion of the difficulties, the highs and lows, the creativity, art, literature, violence, etc of Colombia, and never get out of the U.S. or out of the safety of our flats in
Colombia is no good. Colombia doesn’t need armchair philosophers, she needs dedicated, open hearted, honest doers. That’s when change will occur. That’s when the true positive light we all wish to see shown on Colombia, will shine.

We must all remember, always…regime change starts at home. With me, with you, then and only then, with Colombia.

Peace,

dwmte

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Miguel says on Mar 3, 2005, 10:05:

Primero Thanks for including me with other "esteemed" members here, and while I am ready for a few flames, I honestly enjoyed your commentary. Moving to Colombia and trying to help/make a difference is a hell of a lot more important to me than staying here in The States and watching the fundamental rules and values of this nation change before my very eyes.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 10:06:

dwmte...Thanks for your inspiring words .... You raise some interesting issues. But I have to say, that in the grand scheme of things, the world outside of Colombia does not evalutate Colombia from the perspective of that you do. People, especially my own fellow Americans, tend to generalize and make oversimplistic assertions and assessments based on a limited base of informtion. Movies, convery powerfull messages. In this case, the movie conveys the message that Colombia, to this very day, represents the Colombia that everyone knows about due to the label that is affixed to her.

I too have seen the level and extent of poverty that has kept Colombia down for so long. I never suggested that we should turn a blind eye and deny the problems that confront her. But many of the problems you describe is not just true of Colombia. If you are willing to go south of the US border, you can find many places with people living in nearly identical conditions.

On the other hand, my message here is a simple one. I personally would prefer that Catalina would have rendered a mediocre performance, and not gotten the screen actors guild's attention, so that another movie about Colombia being what it is known for, would not be reinforced into the minds of all of her critics. Nobody is trying to hide. Nobody is trying to live in denial. I just think that since a movie of this nature goes to the center stage for the world to see, there are other situations where Colombia's fine or finest
actors, can display their talents

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carter says on Mar 3, 2005, 10:08:

which Country is portrayed badly in the film The film tells the story of the effect of US drug use. And although it does make Colombia sound bad as the drug producing country at the same time it is telling the story of the affect of the US drug use on Colombians. If anyone is to watch this film and feel guilty it is the US Coke user who watches the film and realises how many people suffer in Colombia so they can have their one gram.

Who is the bad country in the film the producers or the users. Maria symbolises Colombia, the innocent person getting used for the gain of others with no care to what affect it will have on Maria (or Colombia)

Indie foriegn films that are noticed in Hollywood always end up being dramas that may not portray the home country in its best light.

With small budgets foriegn film Industries can only compete by making dramas about specialiest stories that might only happen in their country.

Probably Australias biggest two films of recent time are Romper Stomper and Rabbit Proof fence. Two films that make us look like a country full of racists. An Image Australia is trying to shake but with the success of films like these that are based on real life in Australia its hard.

New Zealands biggest film Once were warriors addresses the issue of Mauri´s and domestic violence making male Mauris look like the most violent people in the world. I still think though these films need to be made as they show a real side of Australia and New Zealand and issues that need to be told and addressed. Surely any educated person will see these films and understand that these are problems within the country where the film is made but not stereotypical of the whole population.

Colombia can't deny it has a drug problem and its best that these issues are addressed. Would we prefer the only version of drugs in Colombia being told in the newspapers.

Give Maria an Oscar so that more people will see this film and understand the real cost their one gram has.

but of course we would all love to see variety in the films being produced from each country.

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dwmte says on Mar 3, 2005, 10:17:

you're welcome..... i think, personally, colombia--not to mention other latin countries--have the best damn actors around. witness...the telenovelas. these are fantastic. compare them to the doldrums of soap operas.

anybody out there remember, "la casa de los dos palmas"? what a great work.

but as for as the opinions of folks around the world. some jerk in middle america...outter ohio...he aint never goin to colombia and doesn't even know where it's at. of if it really exists. he knows about as much of colombia as he does of iraq. what's on the news and as we all know, none of that is good.

what we need to do is person by person, piece by piece, pick up colombia and embrace her true value and help her grow into her possible future.

dw.

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kernow62 says on Mar 3, 2005, 11:49:

I think the acting in Telenovelas is a little on the overly dramatic side myself. I would rather not say where I believe the best actors hail from as I will be accused of being partisan and it really doesn't matter.

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elmodefoque says on Mar 3, 2005, 12:09:

I’ll take any kind of recognition, good or bad. Imagine if you were from Uruguay. Ask most people in the world where the hell that is and I will guarantee 99% will not know. Damn, I didn’t know Uruguay was even a country, I thought it was part of Argentina. Now Colombia is a different story, thanks to the likes of Pablo. Even Gabriel credits those guys and their tenacity and what it has done for the image of Colombia, from a donkey riding coffee, ignorant campesino picking Juan Valdez to people to be recon with.
Imagine if instead of “Maria llena de gracia� they had made “elmodefoque y su burra llena de leche�. Instead of drug dealers we will be know as burra loving modefoques, now, that’s embarrassing.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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Crazy4Cali says on Mar 3, 2005, 13:18:

Movies are movies and are made to make money, first and foremost. They are primarily for entertainment and not education. That those goals are confused says more about the audience than the filmmaker, IMO.

But Colombia is hardly unique in being portrayed in a less than favorable light by filmmakers. Many years ago, I was in Germany with some locals and they asked how I managed to deal with all the crime and violence in the U.S. Being a naive product of the suburbs I gave them my most puzzled look and wittily replied, "huh?" They went on to cite many TV shows and motion pictures as evidence of rampant violence in the U.S. and could barely believe someone could survive its cities. They were convinced that what they saw portrayed in the movies was a representitive sample of daily life for the average American.

The latino film market is very big on films with drugs and gang/organized crime (i.e. movies on those themes tend to sell better in the latino market than movies with other themes). Does this mean that latinos are criminals? Hardly. Just that they like to watch movies about criminals.

When "Chamber-of-Commerce" type movies start raking in the millions of dollars, you'll start seeing more of them being produced. Until the, what you see is what people are paying for. No more. No less.

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kernow62 says on Mar 3, 2005, 13:24:

Tinto I will tell you how much TV influenced me when I was a kid in England. I thought America was full of cowboys and indians like in the "Old West". To my child's mind it came as quite a shock when I realised that America actually was almost as advanced as Europe. ;-)

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 3, 2005, 13:47:

Crazy4Cali You makes some good points.....I guess there is something to be said when the bottom line is $$.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2005, 14:16:

I have just seen the film Maria Full Of Grace,
and I think it's a very good movie. It's minimalistic, has a sustainable story line, doesn't recur to gimmicks or any glamorous stuff, portraits believable characters and Ms. Sandino Moreno does a veritably oscarsworth interpretation of a mule with dignity, grace and sensibility.
I don't agree that it's bad propaganda for Colombia. It portrays the reality of many people involved in the infamous drug trade, it gives the trade a human face, a human dimension.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Mar 5, 2005, 14:32:

darn, maarit... why are you always right? it's just not fair. boo hoo

on another note. i'm sitting here in daytona beach, suffering the beginnings of bike week and it's been miserably cold. GOD i hate being cold. then i think of you and yep up there in the nether regions with thor and odin in that miserable cold. brrrrrr and i think things could be worse, there could be snow on the ground.

peace,

d

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2005, 14:42:

oh douglas it's actually quite pleasant here right now, my thermometer is showing only -12 degrees centigrade with the all time record of -32 just a couple of days ago...
Thor and Odin are ok but my favorite is Goddess Idun, she with the golden apples of eternal youth....

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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kernow62 says on Mar 5, 2005, 14:59:

Pleasent !!!

A man could lose his bearings in weather like that, and I have grown quite attached to mine, thank you very much. :-)

I don't know what dwmte is complaining about, I am hanging out in the sun in my Colombian hammock just 60 miles down the road in Orlando, feels great. You just have to let the sun do its magic and start the cooking process, once you defrost and provided you stay out of the wind it is lovely.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2005, 15:25:

I used to love the Floridian winters when the temps got down near the freezing point and the only people on the beaches in Palm Beach County were the Scandinavian tourists:)
I had this fantasy about being on the beach and suddenly it would start snowing...I'm sure many people would lose their bearings then.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Mar 5, 2005, 16:57:

you know, you're all nuts.... there is virtually no hope for you. especially you, kernow. cold in florida, where there's only palm trees and beaches and the 'alps' are about 170 ft high, should be illegal.

tell me about the sun. i pray for it, daily. without it, it would be the old story of the gun to the head. i simply couldn't handle it.

i really mean it. me and cold are like muslims and jews. i spent a couple of winters/springs in switzerland in the lower alps (allenwinden) and f.....n near died. four layers of clothes, trying to stay focused and finish a technical book. wheres the fire GOD when you need him most?

i even got cold in medellin and cartegena. can you believe it?

and yep...in frickin lapland or whereever...reindeer and such like. nope, not me....never, never, never.

i lived six years in palm springs calif and it got so damn cold mid winter that i finally just moved home/hearth/kids to santa monica, permanently. it was a lot warmer.

peace, ya'll

dw

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kernow62 says on Mar 5, 2005, 18:40:

dw, we have a term in the north of England for folks like you, "nesh".
You are in good company, my wife is the same.

This time of year I am usually the only one swimming without a wetsuit at Cocoa Beach.

I dread this time of year, not because I am cold, far from it, but because by the time I manage to navigate my way through all my wife's layers of clothing I have forgotten why I started my herculean task in the first place!

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dwmte says on Mar 6, 2005, 04:27:

see! i told you so... all bad and evil visit during the cold season...

i'd wish i was outta here, but where would i go?

we're presently up over our ears in bikers who came her from other places much colder...really crazy folks. brrrr.

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kernow62 says on Mar 6, 2005, 05:30:

Where would you go?

I hear hell is rather toasty. ;-)

Sorry couldn't resist.

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dwmte says on Mar 6, 2005, 06:09:

kernow touche

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smoothing says on Mar 6, 2005, 09:08:

Colombia and Equador The only scene that was filmed in Colombia was the scene of the pool hall early on in the movie.

SMOOTHING

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smoothing says on Mar 6, 2005, 09:21:

85% of the people You are correct in the 85%.I am from the states.I believe that the 85% of the people with the bad comments are the ones that do not travel to different places and be amoung the people and not as american tourist.I traveled to Colombia during december.I stayed there for 10 days in barranquilla,cartagena and santa marta.I didnt see any crimes as projected through the media.I am not saying that there isnt crimes there,I didnt see any.i didnt hear any sirens there.I visited 3 cities during the time of Chrismas where here in america crime is very high.When i returned here after 10 mins returning from the airport i heard sirens and on the news 5 more people got shot during that day.Most americans have a superiority complex with most of the world.They can put down colombia about crimes and whatnot but when they turn on their tv what do they see most of all?At least when I was in Colombia,the people treated me with the utmost respect and I to them.Shouldnt that be the way it should be?

SMOOTHING

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juanalejo says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:12:

Colombia Although I agree with Desi about showing a human side of the drug trade, I do think it emphasizes once and again the drug trade in Colombia and therefore reiterates the media portrayal of the country. I think movie makers in Colombia should be looking for human stories that touch on the many more sides of Colombia and that show a more balanced view, including rich and poor, new and old so to create some curiosity under what has been portrayed to world as Colombia. Stories around beauty peagants in the smallest of towns and how these move people here, or the carnivals and fair around the country and not the rich side but the human side or is it that all of those that go out in Barranquilla in carnaval are rich, and they do not have a story full of problems that also deserves attention. Or is it that the Reina de la Panela comes from a wealthy family in Rosales? Or maybe the idea could be of a family similar to that of fzrdan queueing in the rain for the interview at the American Embassy and then how after waiting for hours are dismissed and insulted by a American coucil who throughs her back her application form after this person lost half a minimum salary in the interview cost plus a 36.000 phone card to call Mexico for the appointment. Now if I were to think about it, the problem is that they would film it in Bolivia because the ignorant insurers who watch Maria full of Grace know nothing more and then they would not insure it in Colombia and then the Embassy would be shown covered in tanks but with the most amicable people who would serve Colombian coffee to the visitors. (This could be also the British, French, Spanish, German and for that fact any other European embassy also). Maybe that is the reason I believe the country needs to be portrayed in another manner.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:15:

Too all you people who both love and hate the cold... I can assure you....Chicago will match the coldest cities in Sweeden and Finland alike. We frequent the range of -32 C quite often in Chicago's winters. This is especially so when you add the "Wind chill factor" as a a result of those swift bone chilling winds coming off Lake Michigan. Me personally am not bohtered no matter how cold it gets. Our summers however can get as hot and hotter than South Florida. On any given July or August day, we have temperatures and humidity that exceeds that of Miami.

As a result, Chicago easily can be considered at or near the top of cities that have the most diverse climates in the world.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:19:

film industry There are big insurance companies in Colombia and x number of films and telenovelas are made there. Since Hollywood is only going to shoot films with wide commercial appeal, the "other side of Colombia" films are probably going to have to come from within. I fully agree that Colombia offers endless stories - conflict, drama, road trip, natural beauty, slice of life, and so on.



On a lighter note, the gossip papers say Sofia Vergara recently spent several hours at the Church of Scientology. If she finds it to her liking and hooks up with Mr. Top Gun, maybe he will fund some shot-in-Colombia films. ;-)

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:23:

Desi.... I did not object to the theatrical quality of the film. I would not even go so far as to say that the film was not an actual account of what happens in Colombia. What I am saying, and it is hard for anyone to disagree with this point, that what this film also does is reinforce the popular negative sterotypes that do nothing but harm to Colombia's image world wide. Desi, you and I, as well as almost everyone who frequents this site knows about the other side of Colombia. The rest of whe world,----most of the world does not. The net result is that the rest of the world, which acoounts for 99.999999999% (or more) of the people that don't ever know much about Colombia, (which include almost everyone watching this movie) see Colombia as just one big drug smugling county as a result of a third world economy where almost everyone lives in horrible conditions...at or below the poverty level....

Image is EVERYTHING.

And, this movie is just another one of those movies that projects Colombia's image in a vey poor light.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:39:

Movies aren't real I know this is so obvious, but I'll say it again: Movies aren't real. New York, in the movies, is all mobsters and stock brokers. California is all gangbangers, surfers and movie stars. America, in general, is all cops and lawyers, except when they're learning to box and overcome all odds. The French are all snooty croissant eaters and all Germans seem to be assassins or actual Nazis in the movies. Colombia has drawn the card of being in the drug business. There are worse roles, and more inaccurate stereotypes.

If you really lose a lot of sleep over fiction, I advise you to move along or to start making your own movies.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:46:

I was watching the movie together with my Colombian-born children and daughter's Swedish boyfriend. We had to stop the movie every now and then because everybody wanted to comment on it as it rolled on. My children were trying to explain the background of the drug industry, I had to keep correcting them, because they moved away from Colombia at a very young age and have a totally romantized picture of the country of their birth. I wanted my Swedish friends to see the film, but I'm afraid they would not have understood the situations as we do. So, on that account, I agree with both Gomezman and juanalejo.
Now, as tinto said, the good Colombian movie that shows positive sides of the country would probably have to be made in Colombia, with a Colombian director, actors and Colombian money. Any director from USA or Europe would chose a theme that the prospective viewers could relate to, have some previous knowledge about, thus it could only be either drugs or guerrilla.
There are a zillion of good stories in Colombia that deserve to be told, or put on the screen. Who is going to do that? Where would the money come from? There's plenty of talent and a struggling movie industry but for a movie to make any money it would have to attract larger audiences. I know that Brasil, Mexico and even Cuba are producing movies that reach even our movie theaters here in the far north. It's a problem of marketing also.
I could imagine a movie made on the effects of the aereal spraying of illicit cultivations on locals or something on that line could attract the attention of the environmentalists all over the world. But that'd be another negative aspect of the life and society in Colombia. A movie about Ingrid Betancourt? That'd attract audiences in Europe, at least. However, it would portray a negative picture of Colombia one more time.
Has anybody ever thought about making A Hundred Years of Solitude in a movie? Garcia Marquez is well-known the world over and that movie could certainly become the Big Colombian Breakthrough in the film industry.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 6, 2005, 10:52:

Desi, Not 100 Year of Solitude but Love in the Time of Cholera is currently being adapted to film. I hope they do a good job.

Then again, Killing Pablo is also being made into a film, so those of you who don't like Colombia's drug history being highlighted should hold onto your hats.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 6, 2005, 11:12:

Hollywood who is doing it? Who's the director?
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 12:03:

Tinto, ColombianoX will appreciated your posting. You might want to send him a copy to make sure that he sees it !

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LinaJ says on Mar 6, 2005, 12:18:

Maria Full of Grace Catalina Sandino's performance and award should not bring up the nonsense fighting! she should be proud of her price ans a human that she is! and end of story..
Who care about portraying the reality of Colombia, if you dont want it so, then do something about it instead of complaining, whos fault is it that the director wasnt colombian? colombians right? no one likes the drug problems right? no one likes the crime, no one likes that teenagers in USA are using our killer product, but few people are doing something...what if colombians never left the country and face the problem...maybe wed be done with it a long time ago! Colombia has to stop being such a well mannered country and stop being so scared...we should be brave and defend it, and prevent these things from happening...maybe that way oscars will be given to colombian actors who played in a beautifully written drama or comedy or whaterever...by a colombian...and directed by one...why is that so hard for colombians to believe in and actually achieving that goal? why is it so hard to colombians to believe that colombian people have potential, and a willingness? why cant they believe that they can learn of their world around them? why is it so hard for colombians to help colombia itself move on? why do they run away? why cant we be brave? why cant we support our president's view point? why will we not give him a chance? one more chance in what hes done so well so far?

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LinaJ says on Mar 6, 2005, 12:23:

The deffender Thats a very good plot, tinto! i thinks thats every colombians dream..as for me..i am going back...im not staying in USA...i prefer colombia, ill try and do something productive! =) (its true)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 6, 2005, 12:35:

yeah, tinto what an original manus! Have you ever considered a career as a screenwrite? This movie ought to make money in Mexico....you could add a couple of gringo tourists getting in trouble with the locals just for an added interest for the gringo moviegoers.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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santiBOG says on Mar 6, 2005, 14:36:

"let's start by changing its reality" While it is a shame that once again we get portrayed in a negative manner, I agree with Tertius... let's worry about the country's reality and then its international image will change. The problem is not how Colombia is viewed internationally, that's just a consequence of the country's reality. The problem is poverty, drugs, etc.

It would be nice for the country to be portrayed in a positive light, don't get me wrong, but I think Gomez and ColX are missing the bigger point.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 14:57:

SantiBOG I have not lost site as to what you are saying--not at all. But, there are still elements of the here and now that can't be sept under a rug.

Images convery powerfull messages. On the world's stage, Colombia has many other images and virtues that can be presented to a world that already sees Colombian as a cesspool of drugs,and violence.

In other words, in regards to improving Colombia, the ability to get the resources and support to do so is very much contigent upon sending a message to others to show them that there is hope, and that they too should support the country either through tourism or investment, so as to make Colombia an improved place.

Movies of this nature send a continuing message of how abysmal the country "appears" to be and lets others know that this is not a place worth your time and investment capital........

Image......Image.......Image.........reality and pipe dreams and have no place in your attempt to attract new support for change

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platano says on Mar 6, 2005, 15:58:

Maria Full of Grace deserved an Oscar Reading the posts I wonder if we saw the same movie.
I saw the movie three times and each time I cried. I didn't think the movie was about Colombia or about the drug trade. It was about the life of one young woman and the decisions she made.

And it showed the beautiful strength and inner courage of Colombians. It showed their solidarity and hospitality. It showed positive values of friendship, caring for strangers... how you can show up at somebody's door and be taken in and given shelter.

It showed respect for life, a woman's respect for her own life and for the life of her unborn child.

It showed someone full of potential and "echado p'lante."

There is so much positive in this movie. Why do we focus only on the background of structural poverty and drugs instead of the foreground of a beautiful young Colombian woman who is intelligent, determined, and strong?

Maria Full of Grace was not, in my opinion, about drugs or Colombia. This was a movie about humanity, set in Colombia. (OK, south of Quito) When you read "literatura universal" like Zorba the Greek, do you focus on how it portrayed Greece? No, it is about universal values that transcend nationality. I give Catalina Sandino Moreno all the credit she is due and then some... and I celebrate the positive Colombian values I saw represented in the movie.

I celebrate the positive Colombian values because Colombians ARE among the best representatives of humanity on the Planet Earth... ¡aquí, allá, o en Cafarnaúm!

Vale!

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 17:33:

Platano excuse me but.... What you are saying is that that you have chosen to look at some of the symbolism within the movie, along with the character development of it's most prominant character played by Catalina, and at the same time forget the theme and story line completely as well as the message that it conveys about Colombia.

Hmmmmmm??? Spoken like a typical Colombian that is in denial or who likes to turn a blind eye to a sad situation. Help me!! Look, I don't deny the message that is conveyed in terms of Ms. Maria. But excuse me, that if anything would be considered a sub-plot at best..and an analysis for a movie critic to speak about. But you are fooling yourself if you think that that is the way the movie is being presented to the public. I would like you to show me one, just one review that describes the theme of the movie in the terms you have described it. May I suggest you visit Amazon.com and look at the reviews that are posted there. You may find one or two people that will describe the movie in your terms.

I am of Colombian origin my self and I am sick and tired of my fellow countrymen looking for a silver lining in in a otherwise nasty situation. This nonsense that you opened your post with by saying that everyone saw a different movie than the one you saw, is just a continuation of the same old Colombian rhetoric. And that pretend all is well in Colombia.....

The movie portays Colombia in a bad light. Period. You can forget your subplot interpretations of Maria. The average movie viewer, is not even going to come close to getting that message. Sorry to inform you as such.

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platano says on Mar 6, 2005, 17:43:

Dear Gomezman5, What I was trying to say is that the theme and storyline is more universal than I have seen it represented up till now. I guess I failed.

Or maybe I'm just plain wrong... another Colombian living in a make-believe world!

But damn, you get two of us together and you have a fiesta! (Tell me hearing Fruko in the movie didn't move you...make you want to dance!) And we have that fiesta in spite of the reality in which we live, como dice NG La Banda "no se puede tapar el sol con un dedo." ¡Confíame!

We may just have to agree to disagree.

Vale!

plátano

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platano says on Mar 6, 2005, 18:01:

I googled it and the first review I found supports my view I accepted your challenge and it only took 30 seconds to find a review supporting my point of view.

Just look at where the camera is 95% (99%?) of the time: it's on Maria.

They even used the same word in the review: UNIVERSAL.

From the Miami Herald, a review by Rene Rodriguez,

"What gives the movie its lasting poignancy, however, is Maria herself. As played by newcomer Moreno, Maria is no saintly innocent: This is, after all, a woman willing to risk the life of her unborn baby for a few thousand dollars. But the actress imbues the character with a steely determination and a youthful impetuousness that allows us to understand Maria's decision without condoning it. The plot of Maria Full of Grace unfolds in the world of the international drug trade, but its heroine is the embodiment of the universal human desire for a better, happier life."

P. D. Colombians know about happiness. We beat out the developing countries year after year in the happiness surveys (along with Brazil). And I'm not denying the social milieu... in fact that makes our achievements even more noteworthy!

Vale!

plátano

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 6, 2005, 18:14:

And so....your point ? I did not say that you would not find something that describes or analyzes the film from that perspective...did I????? There are two problems with your posting

1. You are giving me only a part of the review. I have not had the chance to see the enitire review in the Miami Herald and therefore I don't know how this quote stands out relative to the entire review.
By the way, that's called taking things out of context. When you post the entire review, then maybe I will give a little more credence to what you are saying that the Herald has concluded. Don't give me a paragraph about the character and call that the Herald's review of the movie....I'm not that stupid

2. I sent you to Amazon.com. Over there you will find dozens of reviews from people who have seen the movie. Professional movie critics and laymen alike have posted their reviews there. And I am sorry to say, they saw the movie that I saw....not the one you saw with your rose colored glasses on.

I am glad you are so happy for Colombia's sad state of events. You can say that as people continue to line up at the Embassy's in Bogota, trying to get into a better life, where there is less violence, no civil war, and by the way.......get out of living in poverty.....

But...it's nice to dream. Keep doing so.

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platano says on Mar 6, 2005, 18:29:

You have ruined the dream by talking about those glasses As soon as I took off those rose-colored glasses...
No, it's all just too horrible... I don't want to even talk about it!

We live in different worlds.

I see beauty in the people I meet even though they live in "tugurios."
Those people lined up at the Embassy are beautiful people.

That they are trying to get out of poverty was the last line of the
review excerpt I sent. It is a universal thing and that is what the
movie is about, if you are not distracted by the "background".

The happiness that is on the inside even the gringos can't buy with all their possessions.

plátano

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ColombianoX says on Mar 6, 2005, 19:38:

Tinto,

Hahaha! That was great! You really should consider a career in scriptwriting. I can see the Oscar nominations already!

Saludes,

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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kernow62 says on Mar 6, 2005, 19:53:

Working Title:

Switched at Working Title:

Switched at Birth
Cambiados al Nacer

Set in Bogotá about a slightly past his prime gringo boxer and his wild adventures.

One night in a seedy bar sparring with locals (of course he boxes a few ears in), all the locals are in awe and buy him drinks. Then next morning he is buying shoes for poor children at Unicentro. Gomezman will like this scene because it shows that despite Colombia having poor children they have modern American style malls where their rich American friend can set thing right with the world by buying a pair of knockoff Nikes.

It will follow our hero home to his apartment in Santa Barbara where he has all the mod cons. He will explain how he has given up the stress of life in the US for a much happier existence in Colombia.

Then it will go down to the line in front of the American embassy and query folks in line why they are wanting to leave a simple life for one full of stress in the US. The rest of the movie follows a few of these folks on their journey to the US where they move to the most inhospitable climate on earth, Chicago. They all become big time lawyers and then espouse the virtues of the US and enjoy telling everyone how safe it is compared to Colombia.

The gringo in Colombia is now happy and the Colombian in Chicago is also happy. One is happy because he is living a less stressful life with fewer possesions, the other is happy because he has the income to buy whatever he wants.

The movie ends with a splitscreen showing both our stars, one with his feet up on a large ornate desk smoking a big fat cigar (not Cuban of course, those commie bastards), our other star is seen on a bench near Unicentro chewing on a big fat chorizo, both are content.

Fin.

Disclaimer. This movie is fictitious. Any similarities between the characters depicted in this film and actual persons is coincidental.

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Sr Tertius says on Mar 6, 2005, 20:10:

I'm out of words This is too funny.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Miguel says on Mar 6, 2005, 20:10:

Movies I was watching "Animal House" last night for the 5000th time and it dawned on me that Belushi was the Colombian Elmo.
Ok, you know the time-tried saying "opinions are like a**holes...everybody has one". I'm with platano. I was totally focused on the character of Maria (excepting the segment with Fruko, when I wanted to dance, drink, and sing)
Not once did I associate this film with the stereotypical drug movie about Colombia. It was the story about a strong woman.
I also observed that all the violence took place in NYC.
Ya dije "opinions are like a**holes...everybody has one".
That's mine.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 7, 2005, 06:09:

Kernow Talking about stereotype, don't you notice that in all american films even animations films the bad guys always have english accent. :-)

engage brain before opening mouth

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 7, 2005, 07:24:

Kernow....I'm flattered..... By the way....I have been going to Unicentro for years....And centro comercial, and Cento Andino, and Haciendo Santa Barbara.....I...think I can attest with a degree of certainty that Bogota has all the modern amenities that every other major city in the world has. I probably saw this long before you even contemplated your first trip to Colombia.

As to Chicago's "inhospitable climate", all I can say is that there is more to life than a climate. We have a whole lot of variety in terms of climate. There is something for everyone. You just have to pick the month that coincides with the climate that you are looking for

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Sr Tertius says on Mar 7, 2005, 07:45:

Switched at Birth... an Oscar nomination? It will probably perpetuate the stereotype of Chicago, full of rags-to-riches gangsters smoking cigars. NO OSCAR FOR YOU!! NEXT!!

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 7, 2005, 08:05:

In fact I do smoke a cigar----at times.

As to the gangster stuff. Of course I am a gangster. Because my family is from Colombia, by defintion I am a ganster/drug dealer.
Didn't you know that? That's what most people in Chicago think.

I wish some day somebody will ask me if I have a coffee plantation instead of accusing me of being in the drug business.

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kernow62 says on Mar 7, 2005, 12:18:

Gomezman5, why were you flattered, did you see a bit of yourself in one of my purely fictional characters? Totally unintentional I can assure you. No lawsuits please. Oh and don't come asking for your cut when it makes millions (pesos that is). In the meantime I am going to continue my day job installing ceiling fans in cars.

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colombiviri says on Mar 9, 2005, 11:25:

Maria Full of Grace Let start by saying congratulations to all the cast of Maria Llena Eres De Gracia for an outstanding performance. In her first attempt in acting she gets nominated to an Oscar. WOW Catalina made this movie, I felt her struggle and pain. I had an american lady who loves indie films, watch it, and she said that the movie was almost too real. The actors didn't look like they were acting. It seems like we can't handle reality. This is why this movie has impacted so hard. It's real. I agree that being Colombian, the story is nothing new to me. I prefer this movie rather than other movies where they portray the Colombian drug lord as a "hair slicked back, living in the finca type". That is HOLLYWOOD,
I am proud of Catalina and the cast of the movie. For being an independent movie it deserves alot of merit.

Without the drug trafficking, this movie is the typical Colombian immigrant coming to the U.S. story. It hits very close to home.

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