Living long term in Bogota on $40,000 annual

Man Tequila says on Jul 19, 2007, 17:25:

Seems like a lot to me.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Gator says on Jul 19, 2007, 18:52:

"Like a prince," comes to mind. A LOT has to do with you live style. We live, as much as possible, as other Colombian in our income bracket do. Quite comfortably.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 19, 2007, 18:57:

living expenses are quite different from social/entertainment/pleasure expenses......i would not plan for just a simple existence.....all work no play really sucks....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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adrimm says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:08:

AUD, CAD,USD..... lots of dollars - but I am guessing you mean USD since you refer to the US?

I'd think you'd do quite well, as long as neither currency (USD or COP) does to much changing - even then one would have to climb and the other would have to fall a fair ways.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:15:

I think you could live very well on that amount, but it's all going to depend on how much of that $40,000 you want to invest every year, your entertainment budget and whether a wife and kids are in the cards.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:17:

and how many PBHers you hope to adopt.......jajaja..

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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podborski says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:23:

I don't think it's as much as you might think. That's if you want to live in North Bogotá.

You won't go wanting, but it's not living like a king, IMHO.

I really thought Bogotá was expensive this last trip. (I'm the first to admit I don't shop around, I go to the more expensive restaurants (Wok type places, not Harry Sasson))

I was shocked to see $9 USD drinks, $5 USD beers at more than a few places.

I know, I know, you can find beer for under a dollar. But that's probably not the lifestyle this guy wants

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miamimike says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:26:

Right now in venezuela, the Bang for your American Buck is much larger and here's why: the Official Exchange rate in venezuela is around 2148 Bolivar while the UNOFFICIAL Rate on the black market is around 4200-4400 Bol--so do the math--you are getting practically twice the money after the exchange of your Dollares in Venezuela. Contrary to what many may think here on PBH, quite a few Canadians and Americans live or retired there and like it. It is however a place where Strong Political opinions should be left at the Door, but that is true these days in many countries. There are beautiful Areas like the Isla Margarita a tropical paradise or Mountain regions like Merida where houses can be rented for $150 monthly far away from the Traffic and Politics of Caracas,,,And the Venezuelan women are HOT and Beautiful,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:29:

podborski says on Thursday July 19th, 2007 19:23:

I don't think it's as much as you might think. That's if you want to live in North Bogotá.

You won't go wanting, but it's not living like a king, IMHO.

I really thought Bogotá was expensive this last trip. (I'm the first to admit I don't shop around, I go to the more expensive restaurants (Wok type places, not Harry Sasson))

I was shocked to see $9 USD drinks, $5 USD beers at more than a few places.

I know, I know, you can find beer for under a dollar. But that's probably not the lifestyle this guy wants


==================================================================

Podborski--were thoese $5 Beers in that Zona Rosa Tourist Trap barrio?? No surprise there,wherever Americans go, so do the Increased Prices,,, Who would EVER pay $9 USD for a Drink in Bogota? I never have or would pay that much for a Drink even in Miami!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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podborski says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:40:

Yeah Mike, obviously those prices are only at the trandy zona rosa places of course, but that's where a lot of expats hang out.

But if you want to live like an ex-pat, you can't really say your entertainment costs are based on drinking at some student pub in centro.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:48:

Bogota IS getting pricey and not only in the top-end places.

Still, $40K is lot of of money for one person to live on if it's net of taxes and he doesn't have to make rent or mortgage payments (he mentioned buying a place and paying cash)

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 19, 2007, 19:53:

Thanks for all the comments. Well to clarify a little yes my amount is in US dollars. The $40,000 annual is a close but a ruff estimate. That would be clean,,, meaning after all taxes, health insurance, basically take home. I have no kids or wife and don't plan on having that soon. jajaja well wife maybe ...it's Colombia so I know how easy it is to think with the other head. I would have separate funds to buy a car and house so basically 100% debt free. So really money needs to go for living, partying etc. And like I said some left over for investing. I am like POD when I go to Colombia now I don't really watch my expenses or shop around because I am on company money for everything but partying. All my Colombian friends are telling me I can do great on that. I think so to but then I would be giving up a very good gig to take this. That probably the part that makes it a harder decision. Miamimike you are right about Venezuela I have been from one coast to the other and if you black market the cash you are in good shape. I never have a problem there but street crime is definately way up and Caracas is really bad. At retirement time it will definately be a top consideration depending on the government issues. It is easier to travel around then colombia and safer to travel at least for now. But actually I like Colombia just as much.

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 19, 2007, 20:01:

Oh yeah I am not the expat type. The majority of my friends are locals and even here many are Colombians. I prefer to stay away from the american crowd too much ..that's why I would be leaving. But do go to 93 sometimes for a drink but not all the time. I speak Spanish well so I get off the beaten path a lot. I lived in the Philipines fpr almost 5 years on a lot less..but then I was a whole lot younger so a case of san miguel and a lumpia every other day was all I needed jajajaja. I guess you could say my lifestyle is sort of like maybe a place in mazuren...I would not be going estrato 6 thats for sure.

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chiacolombia says on Jul 19, 2007, 20:01:

I wish I knew what you do Conchale Vale. I would move my small family back to Colombia in a second if I knew I would be making $40,000. Is that money simply from smart investments?

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robi666 says on Jul 19, 2007, 20:23:

Miamimike, Isla Margarita is a shit of a place...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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scotty says on Jul 19, 2007, 21:44:

I think you can live a very good life in Colombia with $40K a year.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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miamimike says on Jul 19, 2007, 23:43:

Robi66, when you say Isla Margarita is a shit of a place, exactly where, When and why? I never saw it that way and obviously many others don't see it that way either. Escape artist usually is fairly accurate and pulls no punches on descriptions and safety. To me it looks pretty much like the photos, sure a few seedy areas but what latin MAerican beach town island doesn't have afew of them? Those could be found in Acapulco, Cancun ect but not to say the whole area is corrupted,,,

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/47/Living_In_Venezuela.html

http://www.margarita-island-venezuela.com/

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Timba says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:07:

Maybe $800 - $1000 for accomodations, $400 for electricity, telephone and cable(depending on the neighbourhood). The rest is spending money.

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:32:

Let's see, I'd say:

breakfast at bagatelle: 20k, lunch at Wok: 24k, large latte and a donut at JV cafe 6k, few beers and a basket of food at the BBC for dinner: 45K, round that out to 100k for a day, times 30 days = 3,000,000 pesos = $1,500 USD a month for food for ONE.

Ok, so you don't do that every day, but add in some company and you can easily spend that.

Blue jeans/sunglasses for the novia(s), at least $200 usd a month ; )

Movies: I think I paid 16k per person to see that latest Ocean's 13 piece of crap, and drinks were something outrageous too (hacienda santa barbara).

Add in the odd (once a week) nice evening out at kathmandu in Usaquen, where they charge you 5k per person just to get in the door, and you are looking at about 150k for dinner and drinks for 2.

So I think the extra entertainment comes to about 800k per month.

Total so far $2,100 a month, before rent etc.

Then, you'll need a maid to clean the apt, probably a car? Insurance? Health insurance? No idea what any of that costs

This of course is the 'lazy-single-guy's-I-don't-cook-or-clean' budget. And I'm only half joking

You could of course eat menu ejecutivos every day as long as you like jello for dessert : )

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:34:

hellooooooooo boy ;)

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:40:

or you could get REALLY lucky and meet some very attractive, sexy, funny colombiana with a great smile, who's loaded because she even has a place in cartegena where you can vacation, and she can look after YOU.

(and maybe she was even a "chica aguila" when she was younger : ))

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:46:

you were doing very well well podb until you wrote " lshe can ook after you" uhmmmm....

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:47:

you wrote "she can look after you" no way mate.....two to tango is my motto

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 06:48:

I always find a way to blow it!!

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Colombiche says on Jul 20, 2007, 07:16:

40k US a year after taxes is very good money in Bogota. Damn, if I found a job that payed me 40k after taxes in Bogota I would be packing my bag as I type this and running to get on the next Colombia-bound flight. I wouldn't even think about it.

40k in bogota go about as far as 100k would in the US or Canada. Just watch your expenses and you will be living the life, especially because you are single and don't have children or dependents.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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snake says on Jul 20, 2007, 07:19:

" All my Colombian friends are telling me I can do great on that. I think so to but then I would be giving up a very good gig to take this". "That probably the part that makes it a harder decision. " Oh yeah I am not the expat type".

Looks like a pretty easy decision. Stay where you are and just continue to visit Colombia.

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Man Tequila says on Jul 20, 2007, 07:40:

Living at a middle class level you would do fine. I assume you don't want to rent the priciest place in Rosales, eat supper every night at Kathmandu or attempt to placate Kat's impossibly high standards... (Dammit, where can you find 40,000 count sheets anyway?)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Persephone says on Jul 20, 2007, 07:57:

I think $40000 a year is mroe than enough to live on for 1 person.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 08:42:

shhhhhhhh man tequila you are spoiling my plans ;)

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Swinn88 says on Jul 20, 2007, 09:30:

From my point of view a take home salary of about 3,340.00 USDper month = 40,080.00 USD per year will generally allow you to live like a king in Colombia. I know people that make it on 2,400.00, 3,600.00, 4,800.00, 6,000.00 a year. Some struggle some not as much. So if your making that kind of money generally in colombia you are doing more than well. However most people posting are correct. If you choose lavish hotels and restaurants and bars, costly excursions, and women that cater to tourist then you will be throwing your money away quickly.

By the way I would never pay $9 for a cocktail or $5 for a beer in Colombia. a beer in colombia is about 1000 COP and that's about 52 US Cents. paying $5USD is currently about 9600COP you could by 9 beers for that amount. To much of a price difference and to few beers to even consider it.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 20, 2007, 09:52:

I know Villavo is MUCH cheaper than Bogota, but I lived there in an estrato 4 apartment, and supported myself and fiance, and I was spending half of what you will be taking home pay-wise. And we ate out daily. But, we went to little cafes, where a pollo broaster is 11.000 cop, complete with papas y platano. A giant bowl of mondongo 2.5 mil. Steak with sides, 15 mil. Unless it was a major nightclub - which we very infrequently went to, beers were a mil pesos all over town, just like Swinn88 mentioned. The trick is you need to become local. Explore and find little sidewalk cafes and tiendas. Try them out. You will find they have much better service, much better food, and WAY lower prices than zona rosa restaurants. At least for me, all the things I enjoyed doing in Colombia were free or damn near free. (except for the beer drinking) Actually, that reminded me: One girafa of beer (3 litre tube) in Villavo was 15 mil at La Casa de La Cerveza. One girafa of beer (2 litre tube) at Bogota Beer Company was 30 or 40 mil pesos. Again, I know they are different cities, but you will be able to see similar price differences in Bogota if you get out of gringoland and not frequent TGI Friday's and BBC, etc etc. You'll probably also have a lot more fun.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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durito says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:02:

$1,500 a month for food?

I´ve eaten 3 meals out here a day for the last month (at a lot of nice places too) and haven´t spent close to half that.

For $40,000 a year, with no accomodation expense or health insurance, you should be able to live a very very good life.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:08:

you see pobd we will be fine :P

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:10:

I don't know if I can placate kat's standards, but I'd sure like to try.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:11:

opps i think I got the boys mixed up .. and i am not even drinking oh dear...

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:15:

now I'm confused...?

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Man Tequila says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:17:

Pod and ConchaleValle are the same malparido?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:21:

podd you were the one that confused me in the first place!!!.jajaj, now I realized you are not the one with the money! bummer!!!

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:22:

Noooo man t. I don't live in the USA and have not had a good job for 2 years.

Good thing I'm not meeting kat this trip, I wouldn't even be able to buy her a 3,500 COP menu ejecutivo.

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:23:

there's hope for us yet kat! I'll start buying lottery tickets.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:25:

great :(

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:26:

i will help you i will buy the lotto tomorrow ...

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:28:

I don't have any money, but since I am also unemployed, think of all the time we could spend together!!

We could drink 1k peso beers and live on Top Ramen and jello.

For entertainment we could wander around la candelaria and count how many funny people sculptures are on the rooftops.

bliss!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:30:

*yawn* yes dear *yawn*

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Man Tequila says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:31:

Back to the drawing board, Kat?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:31:

you'd never have to worry about me being kidnaped. If FARC made a mistake and grabbed me you could just tell them to please feed me, give me some decent clothes, and send me back when they got tired of me complaining about getting mosquito bites and sunburn.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:41:

yes MT back to the life of aguapanela :(

podb i won't be bother to make contact with the farc, will you imaging the telephone bill!!! unless they paying of course :P

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:48:

I was thinking more like when we were married and living together in Villavo, you know, in the house you bought for us.

Maybe one day while you were out working the FARC might come by and wake me up from my nap and hold me for ransom.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 12:50:

i won't be that lucky :(

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podborski says on Jul 20, 2007, 13:14:

oooohhhh you are good.....

OK I better go get rested up for my big night out with the 'boys' while I still have a wee bit of self esteem left.

Guess I have to score it kat: 1 pod: big fat 0

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 13:29:

well, have a good time and mucho juicio..:))) don't drink and type :))))

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Man Tequila says on Jul 20, 2007, 13:30:

Nothing wrong with being en las chanclas...

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 20, 2007, 13:39:

nope nothing wrong quite fresh actually

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gringoloid says on Jul 20, 2007, 18:48:

I don't think you guys are factoring in the 'gringo tax', for Mr. Conchale Vale.

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 20, 2007, 20:15:

Hey thanks for all the opinions helps a lot. a little more info. I have decided to give them the green light and let the potential future employer verify all the things they need and to talk to my current boss. That is the dangerous part once he knows I am looking the environment can get sticky in my position. The real and complete negotiation wont come until they are happy with what they find and verifying everything. I think I am pretty close on my estimates of net salary..maybe a little on the conservative side. In any major change there are alway a lot of other factors..to many to explain. For example what makes it more difficult is I will take it in the shorts on about 6000 options that I am holding. I will get something but no where near what I could in a year or 2...sucks but timing is everything. bottom line I am ready for a change and I do love Colombia. I am ready for the 16 or more holidays that you get in Colombia screw the 8 we have here jajajaj I cant wait to tell my friends yeah I have off to day and no I have no clue as to why it is a holiday!
I guess I can add a few things for clarification. When I mentioned I am not a typical expat type I meant it in a way that I rarely go to tourist type places. I normally go out to my friends houses in Bogotá and have a few laughs, drink a little (or a lot) of aguardiente maybe a barbecue. I guess I am probably pretty low cost as I rarely eat breakfast or even lunch...dinner and late is the norm. I live on coffee so Colombia is the perfect place!! I actually cook more than I go out but I defiantley won't have to make my own arepas anymore!! I would want to have domestic help...maybe not everyday but I am tired of doing laundry, ironing and cleaning the house. I miss having domestic help like I had living in the Philippines. As for the car got to have that...like to go on the weekend and have a lot of friends with farms close to Bogota etc. I know the driving sucks. What I am unsure of is what does car insurance actually run....do you pay extra as a gringo having no driving record there? none of my Colombian friends knows the answer to that one. I have driven a lot in Venezuela and the Philippines so I am used to craziness.

The one question I have is this...any one have experience managing larger amount of women employees in Colombia? In the past I have had 13 salaried women working for me here and that was to say the least interesting... I know some of the potential future female employees in Colombia I would have..not all and not well. But I am thinking it is going to be like jumping into a bag full of cats and having it tied shut jajaja I know from my ex that she couldn't get along with any girl in her office in Bogota I never saw so much gossiping and jealousy. I also would have more men working for me than women and that is pretty easy. Actually I think this will be the biggest challenge.

Now just have to wait for the verifications and the real negotiations to start. It will progress in Colombia time that is for sure. Also have a couple other things in the works..a much better offer in Italy but even with less money I am really going to drive this deal. Thanks again for all the responses. I really appreciate your viewpoints on living there day to day.

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Timba says on Jul 21, 2007, 06:46:

I thought with the taxi insurance,you had to cough up 20% while the insurance pays 80% ?

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slguy says on Jul 21, 2007, 21:45:

It sounded like you really hit the jackpot, CV- right up until the part about having to manage women office workers. I'd rather take a four-alarm ass beating every day!

At the risk of sounding sexist - I have NEVER seen an office full of women, in ANY country, where at least a few of them weren't pissed off with each other. Not once. Jealousy...gossip...competition over men....insecurities about job descriptions.....if there's a way to be unhappy, and office full of women will find it.

I prefer to hire women as project managers in my construction businesses.....but office workers? Give me that beating every day, but PLEASE don't make me refereee that zoo!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 21, 2007, 22:02:

Yes this is going to be very interesting part. There will be a rude awakening for some. I have manged teams many times in Colombia and have had great results and love working with them. But in this particular office the old Colombian "JEFFE" loved to dip the pen in the company ink, Something I absolutely will never do..All my action is outside my work and never with any employees. So a couple were hired for their incredible implants and perfect asses. The bad part is they don't do anything for the most part of the day. I imagine if I take this gig the first day is going to be shorter skirts and lower blouses and plenty of hola amor from a few. Business is business and boobs don't make money...well they do but in a totally different line of work jajajajaj It is going to be very interesting to see what the reaction is when I am not impressed and ask for results in their job. I honestly would prefer anyday 10 solteronas that are sharp as a tack then 100 mamitas that do nothing. Now in my private life I would prefer the opposite jajaja

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aztec says on Jul 22, 2007, 05:22:

In Colombia you can hire a woman to supervise and manage an office of this size. Support her and don't show any favoritism! And, as stated by CV, don't "dip the pen in the company ink".

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BAQ says on Jul 22, 2007, 13:21:

INSURANCE, just got a car, can tell you for a FACT depends on WHICH COMPANY you go with as to the % deductable. Premiums ALSO depend on model, make, year ect. MOST companies here pay 80%, a few 90% and one or two 100% but the 100% premiums are pretty high.

Semper Fidelis !

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goin_south says on Jul 22, 2007, 13:24:

40,000? you'll probably have to consider spending 10K on a personal body guard

Ciao! Gustav. Bienvenitos, Ike.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 22, 2007, 13:33:

sorry, for me the bare bones level of living is not living...might as well hold a sign up at an intersection proclaiming Will Work For Food......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 22, 2007, 14:19:

site for expat executives? you mean International Living and those muckeymuchs? =)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 22, 2007, 20:18:

BAQ so about how much does the 80 or 90 percent coverage run...I heard it was a percentage of the car price. But is the cost higher being that you a new and don't have an established Colombian driving record? Say for example a mazda 3 or corolla?

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podborski says on Jul 23, 2007, 15:52:

I was on an expat package when I worked in Japan. You basically got paid AFTER tax 3 times what you would gross in the USA. Plus all your living expenses (rent, utility bills) paid.

Once you live there you of course quickly realize it isn't THAT expensive. But everyone on an expat package makes sure that visitors from the home office get taken to the most expensive restaurants (usually in high end hotels) to keep the myth (and your salary adjustment) going.

I did see melons packaged in wooden boxes that sold for $100, and I did buy steak sandwiches for lunch every friday for $40, plus another $10 for fries.

But right beside the grapes that cost $20 were piles of bananas, pineapples, strawberries, etc., for not much more than the price you'd pay at home.

Executive lunches were very good and widely available for under $10.

The extreme prices are only for people who don't know any better, or for the odd novelty item.

Naturally, returning expats seemed to always have enough money to pay cash for a house.

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Man Tequila says on Jul 23, 2007, 16:18:

Globally, Canadian managers don't do so well in after tax income. Of course, the Colombian position on this would differ.

http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=...

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 23, 2007, 18:29:

The deal I am working on is not one of those. More like a long term job with a certain salary, insurance and pension. No COLA, No housing or food allowance. No annual trips for the US. But has the potential of long term no just a year or 2 tour. Would be nice to have all that but then it is usually for one year and don't want that. Trips home well that I have so many miles built up I never pay to fly anywhere anymore. Anyway When I lived in the Philippines I never came back once in 6 years. Funny POD how you mention Japan the funniest one that used to just crack me up were those special cantalopes that each were raised one to a vine in a little house. Then they were all boxed up and wrapped and sold for $40 bucks after changing to Yen and that was close to 20 years ago...I wonder what they cost now? That was considered the best gift you could ever bring to a Japanese house.

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podborski says on Jul 24, 2007, 05:44:

That's the 'melons' I mentioned Conchale. I saw them, and they were $100 (I was in Tokyo from '88 to '91, the peak of the stock market, housing, prices, insanity).

It was things like that that really gave Japan a name for being expensive, but of course you didn't buy those to eat every day!

Tokyo was (and is again) expensive, it just wasn't 3 times NYC, as the people who designed the ex pat packages seemed to believe.

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