LATIN AMERICA: AFRO-DESCENDANTS MARGINALISED AND IGNORED

Chevere33 says on May 21, 2005, 20:13:

Good read, Platano. Thanks for posting it!

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platano says on May 21, 2005, 21:07:

Chevere33, ¡A la orden!

I will always be thankful to an asociación of afrocolombians in Medellín who offered classes in African dance. I took the classes and they were my first real introduction to dance, since I was raised in a strict fundamentalist protestant religion that did not believe in celebrating life through dance or that dance could even be religious expression.

The Afrocolombian Paisas were my first dance instructors and taught me to move my body in such a way as to express the happiness of my soul. Later in Cali, I was then able to respond to the religious salsa experience in the Taberna Latina where we sang of the orishas in the Yoruba religion: Eleggua, Oggun, Ochosi, Obatala, Yemaya, Oshun, Shango, Oya, Babalu Aiye, and Orula.

The whole happy journey of joy and love started with the Afrocolombian paisas who taught me about dance as ecstatic, transcendent, religious experience. Religion was fun again! and continues to be so -- thanks to the afrocolombians! A beautiful people!

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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viewpoint says on May 22, 2005, 04:29:

PLATANO - GOD BLESS !!! Thank you for bringing this information (news article) to this forum and sharing it with us.

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dwmte says on May 22, 2005, 05:29:

once again, friend.... you have shed light where much darkness dwells (no pun intended).

i can remember in the late 80's in colombia the representative of the choco was so typical of black representatives throughout the world.

he had made it out of the region, and was living the 'good life' in bogota and clearly had distanced himself from his own people. status, wealth, and all that go along with priviledged position, had separated him from the very people he was supposed to represent.

this same story/problem is true today, throughout the world and very much here in the united states. it's not just limited to third world countries and third world problems. it's corruption of the worst kind and it's alive and well here in the so called first world.

it's ugliest face is in the african homeland, where tribal disputes sets brother against brother in the most brutal of ways and has men hacking each other to bits with machetes, cutting off hands and feet, leaving the disabled to suffer a life of horror. and the greatest pity in all this is that the rest of the world doesn't want to do anything (relatively speaking) about it.

we are over come with emotion over the tsunami and organize billions of dollars of relief for the region. but it appears no amount of publicity over the horrors of,--for example--darfur, sudan, manages to get something done...the murder goes on. and in congo, zimbabwe, tanzania, nigeria....the list goes on. even in south africa where great strides have been made...aparthied lives on. now, it's even black on black. such a pity.

the only solution is a profound change of the human heart and it's feeling of separation rather than union. always apart and never together.

let us pray to have the strength to remove these illusions and redeem the human soul from ignorance and mankind from suffering.

dw

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miamimike says on May 22, 2005, 06:36:

DW-Well Said... Amen..

No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Soy Yo, Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska.

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rona says on May 22, 2005, 08:36:

Racism is very much the norm . . . I always look forward to platano's posts. Very insightful and poignant.
I couldn't agree more.
Racism is very much the norm in Latin America. Why wouldn't it be?
We have a rich history of slavery.
Racism is everywhere in Colombia and in Colombians abroad.
For example, whenever me and my costeño brethren mention where we're from in ANY COLOMBIAN restaurant or club here in the states, the mood changes and we're promptly treated as second-class citizens. There's no doubt that if you're from the coast, you're Colombia's nigger.

In Colombia, within families, everybody rejoices and celebrates when a newborn child is born blanquito(a) . . . I never hear that when they are negrito(a) . . . and God forbid you bring home anything darker than panela because immediately you will be warned not to have children because they will be too dark.

Whereas we recognize that afro-decendants are marginalized in Colombia and abroad, how many of us are going to invite the Palenquera and her family to dine with us?

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Colombiche says on May 22, 2005, 13:58:

DWMTE ....I always did wonder why the horros of Darfur got such little press. This world is crazy. It is like a food chain, the strongest eat the weakest.

The Germans killed the Jews (holocaust), the Jews are killing the Palestinians (Arabs), the Arabs (Darfur) are killing the blacks. The blacks are killing themselves (Tribal warfare in africa).

Sadly, yes, it seems like the blacks are always getting the S**t end of the stick, the bottom of the food chain and Colombia is no exception to that. Anyone who claims that racism doesn't exist in Colombia is either blind or has never lived there and doesn't know any Colombians. Our brand of racism is different from what exists in the USA, but it is RACISM nevertheless.

Have you guys never heard the expression "Mejorar la raza" (it means to better your race by marrying someone whiter than you.

How about the expression "Pelo Malo". It means "Bad hair" and it is a term that colombians use to refer to afro hair.

The expression BEMBA?? There are many awful racist expressions that are part of everyday colombian Spanish, we don't need to borrow any from the Americans, we have enough of our own and they are pretty damn demeaning. The difference is that in colombia, blacks have learned to accept racism as a given, they sort of shrug it off and laugh about it. It sucks, but that is how it is.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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jags44 says on May 22, 2005, 14:39:

By the way Plantano Fox's comments were dead on and there are stereotypes for a reason. They are usually correct. Hence a stereotype. My country,(US) has given them everything imaginable at the expense of Anglos's and this country is quickly fading. In my lifetime I'm quite sure it will be 3rd world status because of it. The culture has decaded to the point of discust. We have adopted African culture and music. I mean not music. Noise. Our kids have been dumbed down to the point we will no longer be able to compete with anyone shortly. You mention Al Sharpton?? Here is a felon that our contry is allowing to talk directly with a sitting Mexican President. How embarrassing and ashamed I am. That is how far we have sunk. Are you kidding me? That is the the best they have to offer. A two bit criminal??
DO you have any idea how much money we throw at "African Americans" only to see brand new housing and apartments torn down 15 years later because of crime infestation and drugs? I have seen it over and over in my 38 years. And why are they called "African Americans". LIke they are royalty. It's Commical. I am not called an Anglo American by anyone? Why do you and others give a special name for blacks? Are we not Americans? I think it is some kind of sick guilt my race has for being successful. Very sad. Every big city in this coiuntry is not safe to walk at night now. WIihout exception, our highest crime rates follow in accordance how many blacks are in that city. Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, DC..On and on. WHere white are there is almost no crime. Rated in some areas a s NILL. Please don't blame it on being poor. There are many more poor whites than blacks in this country and blacks make up the overwhelmingly amount of violemnt crime while have ing less population. Please keep your guilt trip. Anyone that knows the facts knows the reality. As for being a racist, My girlfriend is Asian and I love her to death. Racism has nothing to do with it. That said if you are comparing the accomplishments by race. It is not even a contest.

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jags44 says on May 22, 2005, 14:55:

Cut and paste Additionally, why is this site letting people cut and paste articles from liberal brainwashing publications on this site? A monkey could do that. To look at a continent like Africa who has 75 percent of the worlds natural resourses but can't feed themselves or have running water and blame it on racism is hilarious. Someome please post a city majority inhabited by blacks in the WHOLE WORLD that is flourshing without crime and violence? And try to blane that one on someone else. No doubt from these posts of follow the leaders, someone will try.

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jags44 says on May 22, 2005, 15:18:

Proves my point. This is at the botom of this page. Read below. This link is at the bottom of this discussion page. Where is the Anglo American News Link??? Asian American New link? Irish American link? German American Link. Answer that question and you get the truth.They have way more advantage than anyone, period.


African American News
Daily news & features for the black business community. Subscribe today

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rona says on May 22, 2005, 15:54:

jags44 - so what's your solution? - lets try to be constructive Whereas you're right about US Blacks having opportunities, the fact of the matter is that YOU STILL WON'T trade places with a Black man in America and ESPECIALLY IN COLOMBIA - and THAT IS THE PROBLEM BECAUSE you KNOW the PLAYING FIELD IS SLANTED

The kids have been "dumbed down" because parents let them.
The US has become fat, happy and lazy. We don't innovate anymore because we're too busy spending & entertaining and not working & producing.
We will become a third-world country because we're producing less and less. One of our biggest corporations is Wal-Mart (a bloated five-and-dime) - what do they PRODUCE????
Because of our ineptitude, we've accepted the exporting our way of life - (look at China) and in return we get unemployment and a consistently devaluing dollar.

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rona says on May 22, 2005, 17:08:

Actually . . . May 21 - Afrocolombian day On May 21, 2005 "afro-colombian day" was celebrated in Colombia - it was on the front page of Saturday's El Universal . . . they marched against discrimination and racism in Cartagena.

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Chevere33 says on May 22, 2005, 20:05:

Rona, Colombiche, Jags Rona said: "In Colombia, within families, everybody rejoices and celebrates when a newborn child is born blanquito(a) . . . I never hear that when they are negrito(a) . . . and God forbid you bring home anything darker than panela because immediately you will be warned not to have children because they will be too dark."

There IS hope in the world. In the US, possibly because of the "black is beautiful" thing from the 60s, I don't hear many of these comments anymore. Darker skin is really starting to be prized, whether it's white folks trying to get a tan, or dark models being prized for their beauty. When I was in Cali, one of my classmates said she wanted to go to the US for a year, "para volverme BIEN blanquita." And this was a white girl! I don't think I will EVER live to see the day where a Caucasian person in the US says that---they are always trying to get a tan. I have seen some chicks around here so over-tanned that they actually look *bad*.

Colombiche: I had never heard "mejorar la raza" or its English equivalent, but I have heard, "OOooh (drooling), he/she light-skinned." I haven't heard it recently, but used to hear it a lot as a kid growing up in the 60s, 70s. I also heard the "good hair/bad hair" thing, but there are now even books for little kids that teach them to be proud of their hair. There are also more people sporting afros dreads, braids, natural curls, etc.

What the heck is BEMBA? Did I live a sheltered life? Never heard of it.

Jags, I actually agree with some of what you said. Reverse racism is not the solution. And I can't say that I can think of a majority Black city that is doing well (maybe some suburb somewhere, but I personally haven't seen it). My opinion, though, is that it is a function of religion or spirituality, not race. If you think of it, places that have mega problems (Africa as a continent, India, Iraq, Iran, Haiti) also are into ancestral worship, animism, etc. Looking at today's world, most of the countries that are doing well have had Christianity as a base. I think the crime, neglect of buildings, tearing one's own house down, drug abuse, absent fathers, on and on, is a direct result of a Godless society passed down through the generations. From what I can see, Christian families (or countries, cities, whatever) of ANY race, or for that matter ANY entity (Christian or not) which passes on the values of honesty, integrity, education, frugality, self-control, cleanliness, helping others and the like is going to beget folks who are well-behaved, philanthropic, orderly, and who continue that cycle.

Our culture has decayed a lot in the past 200 years, but I don't think all hope is lost. Educating children (and teaching them how to spell, as well!!!!!), elevating morals and ethos, making people responsible for themselves, and teaching them about a God they can believe in and follow---all that will go a long way towards fixing race problems. It's also a solution that crosses borders, races, and cultures.

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Rubiazo says on May 22, 2005, 20:26:

The places that have the LEAST crime the world over are typically Muslim nations. Hate to break it to ya. Iran has the lowest incidence of violent crime out of just about anywhere. Iraq USED to be that way before the invasion.
All South American countries have Christian roots, and they all have very bloody histories to go with them, ESPECIALLY Colombia. In any nation in the New World, Christians have a lot more to be ashamed about than to be proud about. And for the record THE USA WAS FOUNDED AS A SECULAR NATION- WE HAVE NEVER BEEN A CHRISTIAN NATION (thank whoever!) Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, NOT Christians. You need to actually read some of Jefferson's writings.


Does India have a huge problem with violent crime? Are they not doing well? I thought they were one of the most rapidly improving countries! Let me check, hmm YES THEY ARE!

For that matter Europe no longer being violent is a very VERY recent development, as in post WWII. This corresponds exactly with the secularization of Europe.

There may be a lot worse than Christianity in this world, but there is certainly a lot better.

Also, there are some African countries that have low crime and low HIV transmission rates etc. Most of them are Muslim, but there are a few multi-religious multi-ethnic societies too, like Ghana and Guinea. Neither of these places has a stellar GDP but I don't think that's what we are talking about here.

Also anybody who thinks that violent crime was LOWER 200 years ago than it is now is sadly misinformed.

I think that as Latin America moves further and further away from Christianity it will find that its social problems start to solve themselves.

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Lionheart says on May 22, 2005, 20:38:

look at the muslim punishments .... ... then you know that violent crime has to be lower .... an eye for an eye, a life for a life ... family feuds and vendetta are as rampant there as in Sicily.

If you are caught as a thief you loose a finger or a hand, amputated by doctors in the modern times. If you are caught with a violent crime you can expect death. No wonder statistics are low when you don't have lives to count. Do legal deaths/murders go into account as violent crimes? I doubt it.

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Rubiazo says on May 22, 2005, 20:51:

This is absolutely true. That's why I'd prefer to live in South America. I'd rather get jacked by criminals than jacked by the police, because it always boils down to one or the other.

In Iraq before the US came, they would cut off the heads of prostitutes and leave them outside their own doors to rot, so everybody knew what the girl was doing and why she had her head lopped off. I feel that there is always a big tradeoff between freedom and security. As a matter of fact, I'd go as far as saying that violence is the price you have to pay for freedom.

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Rubiazo says on May 22, 2005, 21:00:

Another point Correct me if I'm wrong but in the areas of Colombia where the people of African descent tend to live, there seems to be a lot less violence than in some other areas of the country. I know the perennial hotspots in Colombia are Antioquia and the Southeast.

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TLS says on May 22, 2005, 22:32:

jags, texas Hey Jags44 you really need to *STFU* you post is beyond asinine. First of all when you WALK IN THE SHOES OF A BLACK MAN you won't be so quick to utter such repugnant thoughts. I for one do not hail "Al Sharpton" as any "Black Leader". Your point of view alone is "racist" and even "Godless". You "KKK" type of mentality leaves a lot to be desired. Every thing I have is because I worked for it and if I have any setbacks I don't blame it on the "white man" nor do any of my black friends do. IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT HISTORY you both will learn why things are the way they are in North & South America. Jags, Texas you are malicous in your posts. It saddens me to read your Bulls**t!!!!!

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Lionheart says on May 23, 2005, 01:37:

end of the line here PBH does not tolerate discrimation in the posts. Tinto and I are tired of deleting offending comments of the past days.

I will delete the offending comments here one last time. If the offending posters cannot abide by the rules their accounts will be deleted.

A row of new members need to read the rules. Obey them or leave PBH is the choice.

I am not locking or deleting this thread now. The original post is excellent and I hope we can return to a healthy debate now.

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caslug says on May 23, 2005, 13:02:

memories & thought... when i first heard about Pres. Fox's comment on illegals & blacks. I thought yeah, he's kinda right, BUT that thought lasted less than a minute. BECAUSE i started remembering going thru airports in the US(i travel for business alot) and seeing LOTS of black workers shining shoes, being bag handlers, pushing those wheelchair, etc., And if you are in a city with large black & mexican population, you'll see both groups working side by side in low paying jobs.

Being a first world foreigner living in a 3rd world country(Colombia) is living like a king, compare to locals. There is NO WAY a foreigner can remotely understand the poverty and inherent racism that locals go thru. Blacks in Colombia deal with poverty(which most colombians deal with), but also direct or subtle discrimination which lighter skin colombians have LESS problems with.

And a parting thought.. to all of you who think, where's there's white folks, there's no crime. In this decade, a few "white" men are probably responsible for the destruction of more personal savings/wealth of more individuals than ANY non-white gansters/criminals. Let's remember Enron, Worldcom, & Adelphia to name a few companies that the "white" CEO stole lifes savings of tens of thousands of innocent workers. Also, most serials killers and child predetors are "white". So lets look at ALL the facts before spouting nonsensical stuff.

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jags44 says on May 23, 2005, 19:39:

Caslug What a silly post. First, someone has to do these jobs... LOTS of black workers shining shoes, being bag handlers, pushing those wheelchair. Very demeaning to those good people who do those jobs. Anyone living here thinking there is discrimination against blacks in the workplace is commical. They get into college with lower grades than whites. Companies bend over backward to hire one that is competent. My company let a black woman (best of both worlds here) stay about 2 years in a sales job because of her race. I have been there 6 yrs and anyone else not selling ( white ) gets booted in 6 months. It is really insulting for me to have this conversation. It is like your telling me 1+1 is 4 and me trying to argue. Do you know that blacks IQ is 15 points below that of whites? This is a fact. Have any idea what a huge spread that is? Could that be the reason they are shining shoes? Is this my fault? Are their smarter blacks than me. Of course. Generally speaking they are much less intelligent. They have MORE chance and opportunity in this country that a white male. It is not even close. Policies such as Affirmative Action are proof. Is is not debatable. There are literally thousands of programs for blacks to prop them up. None for Anglos.

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jags44 says on May 23, 2005, 19:44:

TLS Why would I want to walk in a black persons shoes. You walk in them or better yet they can walk in mine. You did not challenge one fact or pont I made just through out a bunch of liberal brainwashed junk. Explain looking at history. The US had a war that freed slaves all over the world. Who else did this? To this day still enslaved in the Sudan.

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Rubiazo says on May 23, 2005, 21:02:

All you have to do to see white people committing violent crimes is go to Colombia. Or Russia for that matter. Or many other places.

I don't think white people have a handle on pedophilia though. That is another thing that they would do on Mars if anybody were living there!

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caslug says on May 23, 2005, 22:13:

know your history... What war did the US freed slaves ALL over the world? WWI? WWII? or American Civil War? ACW was really about federalism over state's rights, if it was REALLY about slavery then Licoln would've Freed the slaves right away instead of waiting couple of years into the war. It was more of political move to keep England and France out. Even the south knew the slavery was not a sustainable economy in the long run. The north economy was much more powerful and profitable than the south, the north had to PAY their workers.

Jag, have you ever been denied entrance or had deliberate bad service at a business(restuarnt, clubs, etc.,) BECAUSE of your skin color? Have you ever been charge HIGHER interest rate on a loan because of your skin color? Have you ever been ticketed by police BECAUSE of your skin color? Have you ever had a taxi refuse to pick you up because of skin color? Have you heard of any white churches that were firebomb?

And to say that a white person has less economic or education opportunity in the US than a black person is pretty far fetch. Affirmative Action is less of an issue now than it was a decade ago. I agree that many(if not all) top colleges in US make an effort to bring in students of color to diversify their student population. This of course leads to university offering help/encouraging student of color to attend. BUT that university also has a Legacy program where if you are a son or daugther of an alumuni then you get admit easier also. Most alumuni at top Unvirsity are predominately white, so doesn't the legacy program a program that inadvertently helping whites more than blacks?

While agree that institutional discrimination in the US today is much much less than in past. I work in the hi-tech field, and 15 yrs ago, most IT manager or programmers at major companies where white, now i go to IT trade show, and it's all type of people. For the most part, successfull companies these days DON'T care what type of person you are, IF you are productive and making money for them you get hired and promoted. The companies that don't follow that capitalist policy are less successful.

USA is the most culturally and ethnically diverse society in the world. US businesses have recognized and taken advantage of that for many years. Business now are putting their advertising money to ethnic media outlet instead of using the mainstream media, they sometimes actively hire people of certain ethnicity to sell or work in that ethnic/cultural group. Is it affirmative action? no, it's good business sense. One thing i think that gives the US a huge competitive advantage in the world economy is our diversity. We have the people that understand any culture and can sell to that culture, because our work force is so diverse. Look at this site(PBH), there are many colombian-american, and many more that open businesses that connect US to colombia and enrich both nation.

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platano says on May 23, 2005, 22:32:

I think the USA had a war that abolished slavery in 1865... Colombia legally abolished slavery in 1854. Por supuesto el papel aguanta todo.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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rona says on May 23, 2005, 22:53:

Caslug - great insight - and incite.
We can see that we can't change racist attitudes simply because its embedded in us from day one.
What we can do is recognize it and slowly correct it.
I just hope that future generations won't be influenced by two-bit salesmen and paranoid relatives telling them that skin color matters.
The bottom line is money/trade. It is a way of developing a market. If you can take a group of people, educate them so that they can earn more - therefore they spend more. You market to that group and you've created a niche market.
And for those who can't get over their racial hang-ups, you will not succeed in today's competitive marketplace.

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caslug says on May 23, 2005, 23:13:

platano, Licoln's Proclomation of Emancipation was in.. 1863 i think, i remember it was soon after the Battle of Antinam, wich allow licoln to announce it on winning note. Simple US history tries to explain that slavery was the major reason north went to war. But when you read more in depth, you find out that the whole federal vs states rights was the main reason. Remember the federal gov't HANGED a major abolisionist figure(Brown)-it was Robert E Lee that lead the Federal troop to arrest him at harper ferry(IRC).

Licoln Emancipation was a brilliant political move, because it he knew most (NOT ALL) northern states had very little slave holdings, 99% of the slaves were in the south. AND he knew that freeing the slaves had NO NEGATIVE ramification, because the NORTH had no control over the SOUTH during the war anyway, so it couldn't free the slaves even if it wanted to. That act was aim toward keeping ENGLAND and FRANCE from recognizing the Confederacy, because neither ENGLAND nor FRANCE could support a nation that had slaves. The confederacy desparetly wanted and needed legetimacy in the international world.

he also knew that NORTHERN volunteer at the start of the war were NOT GOING TO FIGHT AND DIE to free some slaves on some plantation in another state. THEY(Volunteer) were fighting to SAVE the UNION, not free the slaves. He fought the civil war because he was trying to hold onto the UNION. Remember that the confederate fired the first shot by taking over a FEDERAL armoury in the south. Licoln like any politican would have comprise with the south regarding slavery. Heck the US already, did not allow new slaves to be brougth in, this was done decades before the war began.

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CarlGoingtoPeriera says on May 24, 2005, 04:11:

Jagg no disrespect mate but..... Jagg44
I have only just logged on after a slight absence. I cannot understand how people on this site can even respond to your really wierd and misguided opinion. No disrespect mate, but you lack foresight, imagination and decency. Just reading your posting and seeing people responding to your comments as if you were actually posting something normal or intelligent infact disturbs me imensely. What Fox said was wrong and I pray that it does not effect the african / mexican relationship. Thank god that where I come from views like yours are not even commented on. And the TEXAS poster - birds of the same feather effectively!! As you can see I have no argument cause you just would'nt understand - such reasoning would go over your head (be beyond you). I just cant undersand it!!!

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Hunter says on May 24, 2005, 05:40:

The American Civil War was nothing to do with freeing the blacks in the Southern states, it was purely a war for political control and keeping the uniion intact as Caslug has already mentioned, they tagged on freeing the blacks later on.

Hunter

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convallaria says on May 24, 2005, 06:19:

The point with psychological inventories like IQ or life satisfaction measurements is that most of them are ethnologically and culturally biased. They are mostly constructed by the Western blue-collar scientists, in a country where public education is free and obligatory until you finish high school. I heard of an ethnic group in Africa who has no concept of triangle in their culture. Imagine how their children take a geometric test!
Those measurements are also very subjective. Like the one with happiness. They just ask you how contented you are with job, political systems, financial situation, family, etc. And I think how you feel about your own life also depends on whether you can change it or not.
Moreover, IQ test is an indication of performance. It has some correlation with mental capabilities, but mostly with training and familiarity. If you encountered an IQ test without ever heard, seen or known about any similar test/trial before, you would appear dumber than my grandmother’s cow. It happens with most children who went through primary school half day being watched with a drowsy teacher in class and half day collecting some rotten food in the local market for dinner, and sleeping in cardboard tents. I heard from my Colombian friend that education in Colombia is not even free for primary school kids.
I’ve been quietly reading you guys, but now I can’t help jumping into the “fight” anymore. The funny thing is, I’m neither Colombian, nor American, nor even speak Spanish. But I really enjoy the forum very much. Don’t loose your steam guys, thanks you all for an open conversation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi.
So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi. So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

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caslug says on May 24, 2005, 12:04:

IQ test... i could see how blacks in america scored lower on the IQ test, BUT on the average school in black area are not as good because they get less money(AS most poor area). So if YOUR school in a poor area, it sucks, you'll probably test worst than if your school is richer area. A interesting social experience/charity was done in the 80's/90's by a rich businessman(in north east), NYC or BOSTON. Forgot the guy's name, he spoke at a innercity 6th grade class(50-100 kids) and made an astounding offer - he GUARANTEE to pay for their college IF they get in. He also, provided his own money to teaching resources(books, tutors, etc.,) for the entire 6th-12th grade education of that particular class. Six grades later, something like 90% of the kids ended in college. So that really proves that people REGARDLESS of background can do well acadmenically when given right resources and opportunity.

JAG/TEXAS, u guys are certain entitle to u r opinion but when u say blanket statment(ie, WHere white are there is almost no crime) that's is just untrue. While some areas (amish communities) i'm sure have no crime, there other areas where lots of "blacks" and there is little or no crime also.

Personally i don't think entitlement is bad, especially if u r on the receiving end. In the not so distant past, "white male" were the ones running all the entitlement programs(ie, education(funding), legal(courts), business(hiring), etc.,) and they used the courts to enforce their directives. Ironically, many "oppressed" group(ethnic, gender, sexual orientation) eventually learn to use the SAME COURTS that oppressed them to their advantage and have carve out their share(fair or not) of the entitlement programs. So how can you blame them when they are doing the same things (enlighten self interest) that was done to them? Sound kinda like sore losers to me.

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RgTdr says on May 25, 2005, 16:48:

Jagg and Texas I have been reading and enjoying PBH for the past year and never have I read anything as repulsive and disgusting as the racist posts by Jagg and Texas. I have only posted once in more than 12 months, but my very beautiful wife (Colombiana from Valledupar and the love of my life)and I couId not restrain our fingers anymore and had to respond after reading your utterly rubbish posts. Just for your information, I am African American with much accomplishments and successes and significant contributions to American society than you and your racist brethren can ever imagine. Intelligence is not limited to any one race and opportunity and favor ( something that most blacks, Latinos, Asians,and others rarely receive)paly a large role in one's station in life. You have a lot to learn with respect to America's ugly history on race. Go back and educate yourself and maybe you may find out that long time ago it was illegal for blacks to be even educated and to own property in the good old U.S.A. Just be on notice that intelligent people on this board (black, white, yellow, etc) will not stand by while you spew your garbage of hate!

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caslug says on May 25, 2005, 17:22:

back on topic.. i know we kinda went off topic with disucssion of race in USA. I think that we logically conclude that afro-descendant in latin america do have a harder time than european-descent. Which is what the original post was alluding too. i have notice everytime post about racism/discrimiantion in s.america/colombia there are always some people saying racism is a US thing and "americans/gringos" take it too seriously. ughh... yeah, but that's what many of us are taught, to recognize that discrimination is bad and acknowledge if not speak out against it.

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utopiacowboy says on May 25, 2005, 18:54:

You're right on, RgTdr, I thought they should have been deleted. I suggested that they liked to have meetings in white sheets and my comment got deleted. Meanwhile their racist nonsense continues.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on May 25, 2005, 19:28:

i don't think there stuff should be delete, because.. i don't think they(jag/texas) are really racist, everyone has prejudices, most try not to display it publically. i think they are a little ignorant of some facts that leads them to say what they say. education and knowledge usually sheds light on prejudices and racism in my experiences. my gripe with them is that they are using wrong facts to back up BLANKET opinions.

ironically, the more travel overseas the more i consider myself american versus any enthnic background i have, because no matter what your skin color, you still have a blue passport. AND when i meet other americans overseas, we bond very easily no matter what their ethnic background or age. because we are all a foreigner in a foreign land.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 26, 2005, 13:47:

Several of the worst posts were deleted a few days ago. Utopia - I deleted yours because it came right after and referred to an ugly post that was deleted almost as soon as it appeared.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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caslug says on May 26, 2005, 14:18:

tinto, why delete those post?... WHile they maybe racist, isn't better to leave them up to so other people can see for themselves and reply. By taking them down, you(the sites) is sweeping it under the rug, instead of putting it in light to be talked about. Most of the reply were to those post and most of the reply were trying to dispell those racist views. seems to me that many good people step up and called those poster on it. Which is how i think prejudices and 'ism' are dispell, by discussing it not ignoring it or hiding it.

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vladimiro says on May 26, 2005, 16:48:

Africa's Geography " To look at a continent like Africa who has 75 percent of the worlds natural resourses but can't feed themselves or have running water and blame it on racism is hilarious. " - wrote jaggs44

However, I believe its geography not the race of its inhabitants that caused unfortunate Africa to be generally behind in comparison to the rest of the world. Its the interchange of contacts, ideas and influence between civilizations that creates progess and Africa was completely isolated from the rest of the world by oceans and the Sahara desert for which, unlike the Arabs, they had no camels or other means to traverse. Africa was left out when the rest of the world (Europe,Middle East, Central Asia, India, and China) was exchanging ideas, new discoveries and building wealth trading goods with eachother. I often hear Westerners talk as if Western Civilization is unique and superior just because they are doing better presently, but all civilaztions are derivative, based on and enriched by other civilazations. Otherwise, whites would still be throwing bones behind thier backs while eating like the barbarians they used to be:)

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Colombiche says on May 26, 2005, 19:10:

Actually Vlad, to add to your comment ....the Incas already had invented toilets when the Europeans were still peeing in potties and tossing it out the window. And if you think about it, the natives of the Americas were totally isolated from the rest of the world up until the infamous date of 1492 (except for little visits here and there from the Vikings to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland with no major known impact).

How the hell did the Mayas come up with their complex calendar system, discover the number 0, develop such advanced knowledge on astronomy and build those amazing pyramids? The natives of the Americas were far more isolated than Africa or any other corner of the world for much longer.

There has to be more than geography at play. Look at how the Incas built Macchu Picchu on a steep slope at an elevation close to 3200 meters above sea level!! Now, if that is not a feat, I do not know what is.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on May 26, 2005, 19:16:

And I bet that if the vikings had made id down as far as Mexico on their visits, they could have learned a thing or two from the natives.

The ones that were barbarians not long ago (vikings) are now the most politically stable and socially advanced nations on earth. Amazing how things change.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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jags44 says on May 26, 2005, 19:18:

Racism What is the definition anyone?

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jags44 says on May 26, 2005, 19:29:

Fantasy land I wish I could live there too. There are more poor whites than blacks. There scores test much higher.

Let me tell you CASLUG. Your little list of have you evers is silly. Blacks have slaughtered and raped more American whites in the last 30 years than you can imagine. I will be happy to post FBI stats. So have you ever been raped by a black man? Shot at by a Black? That is how silly your list is.

To sit here and say everyone is equal is so silly. I guess you are a feminist also. Men and women are the same. Yep, it's working wonders for the country. 3rd world status approaching at warp speed. Diseased rotten culture. Ignorance must be bliss. Wish my eyes were closed too. Or wish I watched 8 hours of TV and had no one to explain to me that liberal professors were isolated from real world living in their elitist closed mind. Sorry if I cut anyone's time out from MTV.

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Colombiche says on May 26, 2005, 19:40:

jags44 Why are you such a hater? Why are you so resentful? What was done to you? Is your only accomplishment in life being white???

I am a Latin woman, so according to you I guess I should probably be sweeping floors and folding sheets, not programming computers and designing systems for some of the world's top banks. Why am even wasting my time with this?

Time to go get some z's. Must wake up to go to work!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on May 26, 2005, 19:48:

paranoid delusional That is what your posts sound like Jag.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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jags44 says on May 26, 2005, 19:48:

As for deleated responses That is right in step with today's liberals in general. Very closed minded. It's open forum time until they hear something that makes them uncomfortable or something that contradicts the TV or movies. Then it is cut em off time. The same group that loves porn and screams for burning the flag, ect...Shuts you off for posting on a web site.haha...I am living in Bazzarro world. Anyone looking at this country objectivly and believes it is in as good as shape as it was in the 50's needs serious deprogramming. Detroit ( Empty shell, husk of a city). Miami (crime capital of the world) DC, ATL, on and on. Their was a day when people left their doors open in these same cities. Hmmmmmmm, wonder what has changed? Wow, tough to figure out..

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platano says on May 26, 2005, 22:40:

I am African.... we are all descendants of Africa... For a visual representation of our journey from Africa: http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

(presentation works best with broadband connections)

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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vladimiro says on May 27, 2005, 10:23:

Racial Problems: quasi-fraternity Lately, I've been reading Fernand Braudel:

The first and not the only difference between North and South America is surely the latter's spontaneous and growing freedom from ethnic prejudice. All is not perfect, of course, in this domain. But where in the world have people done better, or even as well?

Travelling to the US has been a kind of cautionary experience for many South American intellectuals with white but not pure white skins: it has tought them tolerence.

Even if fraternity among the races is not always possible, it is a general phenomenon, and one of the special features of this 'other America' - its distinguishing characteristic, its most attractive aspect, and something recognizably unique. Landing in Panama on the way back home to his own country, a South American traveller feels a sudden thrill: all the different skin colors, the ringing voices, the cries, the songs - no doubt about it: this is already home.

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mama_loba says on May 27, 2005, 12:48:

AfroColombian Dance Saludos! I just stumbled onto this site, surfing the web for possible Afrocolombian dance instruction in Barranquilla. I will be going there and staying for about a month. I do have family there and will probably help me find what I'm looking for BUT I wanted to take the initiative and do some searching on my own before heading there. Any suggestions? Or better yet contact information so I can find where I need to go and how much it will cost, etc,
any info. will be TOTALLY appreciated.
I've been taking West African dance for about 5 years.--side note :)

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convallaria says on May 27, 2005, 13:28:

what is racism? Something about social prejudices and discrimination / racism, to show you that scientists are not always sitting in their ivory tower, but working hard among you to bring into the light the TRUTH.

Classic/traditional discrimination / racism is plain overt negativity & hostility towards the other group. This attitude is not socially tolerated anymore; so people start to hide it under more subtle blankets.

The modern form of discrimination/ racism occurs when people believe that their own group is threatened by the other group, and therefore any effort to change the status quo is illegitimate. Some people also believe that discrimination / racism no longer exists, and therefore they consider affirmative action policies as unnecessary and even violating equality (which according to them is already established). Sometimes discriminative attitudes are hidden behind a kind of implicit and unaware negative feelings toward the other groups. People having this attitude often avoid contacts with the other group.

Finally, the most difficult to detect, but also probably the most hurting form of racism is termed “subtle discrimination”. It’s completely unconscious, hidden under socially acceptable manners. The people often fiercely defend their so-called “traditional” values of their group. Even if they are confronted with any event or case that threatens their belief, they will just ignore it, or consider it as unrepresentative of the situation. For example, if they believe that women are stupid, and they are confronted with an intelligent and successful female scientist or professional, they would just chirp and say: well she is way too masculine to be a real woman!

Jag’s attitude is just plain modern racism, being boosted up by this forum’s anonymity and people’s responses to you. But I agree that those posts should be kept for people to know that racism still exists.

------------------------
Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi.
So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi. So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

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caslug says on May 27, 2005, 13:41:

questions for you jags... since you are expert of this race thing. Can you tell us folks here on the forum what is your definition of a white person or black person or any other "color" for that matter. Is it based on looks, skin color, DNA, ancenstory, or what? Inquiring minds what to know!
Can we use the definition that "white" must come from Europe? Or have really light skin, do we need a color chart?

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Lionheart says on May 27, 2005, 15:28:

Racism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
go here for complete text: Racism in Wiki


Racism has historically been defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently according to their racial designation. Sometimes racism means beliefs, practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. There is a growing, but somewhat controversial, opinion that racism is a system of oppression -- a nexus of racist beliefs, whether explicit, tacit or unconscious; practices; organizations and institutions that combine to discriminate against and marginalize a class of people who share a common racial designation, based on that designation.

Since the last quarter of the 20th century, there have been few in developed nations who describe themselves as racist, so that identification of a group or person as racist is nearly always controversial. Racism is recognised by many as an affront to basic human dignity and a violation of human rights. A number of international treaties have sought to end racism. The United Nations uses a definition of racist discrimination laid out in the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination and adopted in 1965:

...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. [1] (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/d_icerd.htm)

Assuming that every individual's character adequately can be determined by racial or ethnic stereotypes is race prejudice, and granting or withholding rights or privileges based on such stereotypes is racial discriminatory prejudice. The term racism sometimes is used to mean a strong and persistent bias or inclination towards these activities.

Some believe that the term also is often used incorrectly by supporters of cultural relativism and political correctness to stigmatise their adversaries.

Racism is a controversial issue. Whether there is any validity to the concept of race is an issue that is discussed in the article Race. The issue of how and if past practices might be remedied is discussed in Affirmative action, reverse discrimination, and, briefly, in the reparations section of the article on slavery.

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jags44 says on May 27, 2005, 22:12:

Definition Racism has historically been defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others.



Welcome!
How many of the 20th century's greatest engineering achievements will you use today? A car? Computer? Telephone? Explore our list of the top 20 achievements, and learn how engineering shaped a century and changed the world.


1. Electrification
2. Automobile
3. Airplane
4. Water Supply and Distribution
5. Electronics
6. Radio and Television
7. Agricultural Mechanization
8. Computers
9. Telephone
10. Air Conditioning
and Refrigeration
11. Highways
12. Spacecraft
13. Internet
14. Imaging
15. Household Appliances
16. Health Technologies
17. Petroleum and
Petrochemical Technologies
18. Laser and Fiber Optics
19. Nuclear Technologies
20. High-performance Materials


OK, please name me which of these inventions were made by blacks? Here is a hint, NONE. So for me to believe, based on FACT, that my race is not superior mentally would make me insane. Two choices, Insane or a racist. It's one or theother. As a white man, of course I am a racist. Doesn't mean I hate anyone. Nothing of the kind. You people can talk until your blue in the face but you cannot contradict any of this. To argue any of this has to mean you are creating your own reality in your mind. It happens every day on TV and in movies.

For heaven sake, we put a man on the moon and blacks cannot create or maintain anything close to civilization without our help since known recorded history..

AGAIN, PLEASE NAME ME ONE TIME IN HISTORY THEY HAVE FLOURISHED ALONE ....ANYWHERE ANY CITY. ANY COUNTRY! EVEN EASIER, NAME A PLACE THEY HAVE NOT DESTROYED OVER TIME. IE, NOTICE THE FLOOD OF WHITES LEAVING SOUTH AFRICA. THE HAVE 5 YEARS TOPS TO GET OUT BEFORE THE SLAUGHTER THERE.

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rona says on May 27, 2005, 23:36:

huh?

"As a white man, of course I am a racist." -jags 44

is this how all white men think? should PBH members be wary of the "white men" in the forum?

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TLS says on May 28, 2005, 02:13:

a little education for Jags PBH posters here are names of people who have made significant contributions to the world.

George Alcorn
Benjamin Banneker
George Washington Carver
Dr Charles Drew
Louis Lattimer
Matthew Henson
Phillip Downing
Garrett Morgan
Louis Alexander
Harrison Allen
Otis Boykin
Wilbert Dyer
Meridith Gourdine
Lloyd A Hall
Lonnie G Johnson
Bruce M D'Andrade
Clarence Larry

Jags just to name a few. YEP YOU GUESSED IT.. ALL Americans from African descent. How ya like them apples? I could go on but you are a self admitted racist so why bother. You are evil with no vision. Full of contempt and malicious views. Your posts are neither enlightning or constructive. You deny the truth. Maybe you can't help being an at sswipe, but you can stop your posts.

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quindioman says on May 28, 2005, 03:56:

jags "i am not racist but i thought i'd let these coloureds know who is superior" 44
i'm starting to wonder who the one living in the dream world is....

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utopiacowboy says on May 28, 2005, 16:24:

Are you feeling worried because America is turning brown and speaking Spanish, Jags? Get with the program. This is America's strength not its weakness. Maybe you should find some lily-white country to live in - possibly the Ukraine might suit you.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lionheart says on May 28, 2005, 16:50:

Let's redefine the list 1. Electrification - Otto von Guericke invented the early electrostatic generator in 1660. In 1897, Werner von Siemens presented the world's first electric locomotive at the Berlin Industrial Exhibition.
2. Automobile - Gottlieb Daimler and Carl Benz invented the internal combustion engine-powered automobile independently, in southwestern Germany. Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach invented the four-stroke engine
3. Airplane - Sir George Cayley, the inventor of the science of aerodynamics, was building and flying models of fixed wing aircraft as early as 1803, and he built a successful passenger-carrying glider in 1853, but it is known the first practical self-powered aeroplanes were designed and constructed by the Wright brothers. (Indeed, the German Karl Jatho had already constructed such 4 months earlier and made his first flight August 28, 1903 in Hanover.)
4. Water Supply and Distribution - Early Rome had indoor plumbing, meaning a system of aqueducts and pipes that terminated in homes and at public wells and fountains for people to use.
5. Electronics - Karl Ferdinand Braun (1850-1918) was director of the Physical Institute and a professor of Physics atbraun.gif (8660 bytes) the University of Strasbourg when he demonstrated the first cathode ray tube oscillograph, guiding a narrow stream of electrons to a fluorescent screen and presaging the modern television screen. Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen (1845 -1923) discovered in November, 1895, that some unknown radiation coming from a Crookes tube could cause crystals to fluoresce, pass through solid objects, and affect photographic plates = X-Ray.
6. Radio and Television - 1887 Hertz sends and receives radio waves. 1897 First cathode ray tube scanning device constructed by German scientist, Karl Ferdinand Braun. 1931 AEG engineers begin work on Magnetophone recorder. 1935 First TV broadcasts in Germany and England. 1945 Orr and Mullin bring German magnetic tape technology back from Europe to the USA.
7. Agricultural Mechanization - steam engines/tractors came from the UK
8. Computers - In 1623 Wilhelm Schickard built the first mechanical calculator and thus became the father of the computing era. Since his machine used techniques such as cogs and gears first developed for clocks, it was also called a 'calculating clock'. It was put to practical use by his friend Johannes Kepler, who revolutionized astronomy.
9. Telephone - Generally attributed to the inventor Alexander Graham Bell whose first device was built in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1876 the actual history is a subject of complex dispute. Amoung others, an Italian inventor Antonio Meucci is said to have invented the device in 1849, and in June 2002 Meucci was officially credited by the US House of Representatives (Resolution 269) [1] (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107_cong_bills&docid=f:hr269ih.txt.pdf) with the invention of the telephone, instead of Alexander Graham Bell.
10. Air Conditioning and Refrigeration - Carl Paul Gottfried von Linde (born 11 June 1842 in Berndorf (Oberfranken); died 16 November 1934 in Munich) was a German engineer who developed the basics of modern refrigeration technology.
11. Highways - Autobahns were first conceived, planned and built on a limited scale in Germany during the Weimar Republic era in the 1920s.
12. Spacecraft - In 1923, Hermann Oberth (1894-1989) published Die Rakete zu den Planetenräumen ("The Rocket into Planetary Space"). In the mid-1920s, German scientists had begun experimenting with rockets which used liquid propellants capable of reaching relatively high altitudes and distances. A team of amateur rocket engineers had formed the Verein für Raumschiffahrt (German Rocket Society, or VfR) in 1927, and in 1931 launched a liquid propellant rocket (using oxygen and gasoline). Wernher von Braun, at the time a young aspiring rocket scientist, joined the military (followed by two former VfR members) and developed long-range weapons for use in World War II by Nazi Germany, notably the A series of rockets, which led to the infamous V-2 rocket (initially called A4). After stealing a train with forged papers, von Braun led 500 people through war-torn Germany to surrender to the Americans. On June 20, 1945, U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull approved the transfer of von Braun's German rocket specialists. This transfer was known as Operation Paperclip.
13. Internet - The Internet's roots lie within the ARPANET, which not only was the intellectual forerunner of the Internet, but was also initially the core network in the collection of networks in the Internet, as well as an important tool in developing the Internet (being used for communication between the groups working on internetworking research), US military.
14. Imaging - Photography? - Louis-Jacques-Mandé Daguerre, inventor of the first practical process of photography, was born near Paris, France on November 18, 1789. Johannes Kepler was the first person to coin the phrase Camera Obscura in 1604, and in 1609, Kepler further suggested the use of a lens to improve the image projected by a Camera Obscura.
15. Household Appliances ? - fits into other inventions
16. Health Technologies ? - most inventions are European
17. Petroleum and Petrochemical Technologies - The first oil wells were drilled in China in the 4th century or earlier. The oil was burned to evaporate brine and produce salt. By the 10th century, extensive bamboo pipelines connected oil wells with salt springs.

The modern history of oil began in 1853, with the discovery of the process of oil distillation. Crude oil was distilled into kerosene by Ignacy Lukasiewicz, a Polish scientist. The first "rock oil" mine was created in Bobrka, near Krosno in southern Poland in the following year and the first refinery (actually a distillery) was built in Ulaszowice, also by Lukasiewicz.
18. Laser and Fiber Optics - both US inventions
19. Nuclear Technologies - Max Born (December 11, 1882 – January 5, 1970) was a Jewish German mathematician and physicist; he formulated the now-standard interpretation of the probability density for ψ*ψ in the Schrödinger equation of quantum mechanics. Robert Oppenheimer was born in New York City on April 22, 1904. Oppenheimer's clumsiness in the laboratory made it apparent that his forte was theoretical, not experimental, physics, so he left in 1926 for the University of Göttingen to study under Max Born.
20. High-performance Materials - too broad, inventions everywhere

I put in the effort here to prove some points that have been bothering me a lot lately. Racism and nationalistic pride are very related. As all can see I presented a list of "selected" facts showing that Germany is source for more technology than any other country on this planet, showing that the USA dis not contribute much in this history, just like another thread said that the Spaniards didn't contribute much.

It also shows that Germans are far superior as the race of Übermenschen, Herrenmenschen; the result of their Arian ancestry, a better race than any other race on Earth, be they black, red, white or yellow. But what has history taught us?

After living in Germany for over 30 years, but US born, I get pissed at being called a nazi just because I lived there and have a German accent, just like Blacks being called niggers. Or others being put down as well, like Latinos, Jews, Chinese, whatever.

The achievements of mankind were made by individual human beings, not races or religions. Warfar sometimes accelerated developments, but the basics were discovered in peaceful times. Look at the person across from you as a person, not something you placed into a drawer created out of ignorance.

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Lionheart says on May 28, 2005, 18:42:

The Truth Is Out There Actually the movie about Microsoft is very accurate and highly recommended to learn about the birth of the personal computer.

Xerox PARC invented the mouse and the graphical user interface GUI with the Star. Apple stole it and blamed MS for stealing it from them with Windows, and Digital Research (C/PM) made GEM, another variant. Seattle Computer Systems (SCS) re-engineered CP/M for the 16-bit 8086/8 CPUs. After IBM turned down DR's CP/M because the owner/developer Gary Kildall refused it to be renamed to PC-DOS they took Bill Gate's offer and thought they made a great deal. Bill offered a $1 license per copy of DOS instead of selling it, and he didn't even have DOS yet. Once the deal was made he bought C-DOS clone from SCS for $50.000. Very shrewed man he is.

IBM didn't develop their PC either, they bought a garage clone of the Apple II which used a 8088 CPU and a different bus system. So all the real developers are gone, and the business people survived, except Steven Jobs for Apple, who returned to them for free.

I was hanging out with those companies from 79-82 and chose the wrong companies to work for, go figure.

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jags44 says on May 28, 2005, 23:58:

Strength? Look at what is happening here? How is it a strength ansd where is working elsewhere?

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jags44 says on May 29, 2005, 00:01:

THganks Lionheart You prove my point to the T. All Anglo. Whether German or not is beside the point. Same race. My poiont was where are the Africans? Jaggers is German by the way. My last name. Thanks again.

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jags44 says on May 29, 2005, 00:23:

Wisdom IT IS THE MASCULINE SPIRIT WHICH APPRECIATES WOMEN, WHICH APPRECIATES FEMININE QUALITIES, AND AS THIS SPIRIT DECLINES, OUR TASTE FOR WOMEN LOSES ITS EDGE AND BECOMES COARSER. WE MOVE FROM AN AGE IN WHICH WOMEN WERE NOT ONLY APPRECIATED BUT ALSO TREASURED AND PROTECTED INTO AN AGE IN WHICH...FEMININE BEAUTY IS A MERE COMMODITY, LIKE SOYBEANS OR CRUDE OIL; AN AGE IN WHICH PARENTS DUMP THEIR DAUGHTERS INTO THE MULTIRACIAL CESSPOOL THAT AMERICA'S SCHOOLS AND CITIES HAVE BECOME TO LET THEM FEND FOR THEMSELVES. IN AN AGE IN WHICH MATERIALISM AND FEMINISM ARE ASCENDANT, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY IT CAN BE. TO ATTEMPT TO MAKE IT OTHERWISE--TO ATTEMPT TO DECOMMERCIALIZE SEX, FOR EXAMPLE--WOULD BE A BLOW AGAINST THE ECONOMY, AGAINST THE MATERIALIST SPIRIT. AND TO ELEVATE WOMEN AGAIN TO THE PROTECTED STATUS THEY HAD IN A MORE MASCULINE ERA WOULD BE FOUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL BY FEMINISTS AS A LIMITATION ON WOMEN'S FREEDOM."

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quindioman says on May 29, 2005, 00:54:

open mouthed at such blatant racism......thank fuck this guy ain't a politician

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utopiacowboy says on May 29, 2005, 15:27:

He probably is a politician. Mouthing whatever the rabble want to hear as a solution for their problems. Usually it's real losers who blame everyone else for their problems and seek solace in being part of the "master" race or some other nonsense. People have been saying such things since the 1840s when the Irish started emigrating to America. With every wave of newcomers, the country is going to the dogs. Speaking of dogs, mongrels make the best dogs! So let's mongrelize!!!!!!!!!!!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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rona says on May 29, 2005, 15:50:

waddup mongrel - I think the whole "master race" idea is a very human thing - for example: Westminster Dog Show is a competition based on "breeding perfection" - you see a lot of diseases in particular breeds that can't be breeded out because of their genetic makeup - so in actuality you're strengthening the diseased trait as well as the others. My mutt-mongrel dog is one of the smartest dogs I've ever had. My own afro-indigenous-euro-mulato-kumquat-whitebread background gives this Mongrel a unique spin on issues as well as a cool year-round tan.

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Lionheart says on May 29, 2005, 16:16:

we are all mongrels Even the so-called Arian race used 80 years ago by the nazis was flawed. The Caucasian race evolved over 1000 years of mongrelism. If you take a look at historical maps how invasions criss-crossed Eurasia leaving their mongrels behind it should be very clear there is no such thing as a clean race. And look at the USA, with immigrants pouring in from all directions, even the purest ivy-league in Newengland is a mongrel considering the European mongrel background.

I remember somebody posting a statstic here, probably Tinto, stating how long it will take to have no distinctable clean race structure anymore. I am not sure if it was USA, USA/Europe, or worldwide. In a few centuries we will all be equal and one race ... only inbreeding can prevent that, as history shows, at the normal cost: becoming extinct.

Cross-cultural marriages with mixed children are growing in noticable percentages worldwide. Only an ignorant reactionist could refuse the happy truth and keep his head in the sand.

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platano says on May 29, 2005, 23:30:

The human race began in Mother Africa... Just spent part of the day drumming with master drummers from Ghana and dancing African dance with dancers from Zimbabwe (of the Shona people). Such beautiful, juicy people! so full of loving energy... such lively expression.... such happy smiles and good humor....so much beautiful color! It was great fun to dance and drum with them! Today has been a good day... being able to share with Africans.

I hope everyone takes advantage of any chance to share with African or persons of African descent, in Colombia or wherever in the African diaspora and discover how much Africa has to teach us about being human.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

For a visual representation of our journey from Africa: http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

(presentation works best with broadband connections)

plátano

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jags44 says on May 30, 2005, 07:00:

Platano Are you also sharing in the 3 million that have been hacked up in the lasty 5 years there? Happy smiles and good humor there..

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platano says on May 31, 2005, 06:57:

jags44, When it comes to hacking nobody seems to have a monopoly. I enjoy sharing with my black African friends.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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caslug says on May 31, 2005, 12:09:

Jag, u can do better than that.. come on 3 mil in 5 yrs, couldn't you find a better historical in africa to highlight. How about the famine in the 80's because of draught & war, definitely more than 3 mil perished in that one. But seriously, you take history out of context. Do you have jonesing for africa or something? You seem really fixated on it and it's inhabitants and descendants.

You forgot to leave out some bigger atrocities in history, Stalin in 1930's (over 20 mil "white" russians/ukrainian), Hitler in 1933-1945 (6 mil jews, 4 mil others(many "whites") AND 10 mil plus "White" Germans), look back further in time you got the Mongols (Almost wiped out europe), Romans(killed lots people of all race/creed incl many europeans). for a pro-white-man-history you left out some big achivements.

BTW, r u and american(USA)? because part of being a citizen is agreeing to defending the constitution and what it represents. Remember what predated the constitution, the dec of independances which among other things states "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL..". It didn't say "ALL MEN(WASP) ARE CREATED EQUAL.." of course maybe Jeffereson had that in an earlier draft that was removed on the final draft. LOL. Remember, between jefferson & franklin and few others, those guys were genius.

PS. Keep up the posting(let see if we can get to 100 post),your stuff is very informative and entertaining learning kinda like comedy central race sketches. I did like your posting on zionist conspiracy, i'm a big X Files fan so i love reading wacky conspiracy theories.

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Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 16, 2005, 14:57:

convallaria says on Jun 17, 2005, 11:48:

To add a spot of torch light to your firework, Caslug, I’d like to remind you the masacre on Muslims in Asia Minor in the 11th century, ordered by Pope Urban II to the Crusades soldiers, in which not only men but also all women within birth age and boys were all slaughtered. It is the event that opens the era of hatred between Islam and the West, but was never mentioned in any history book of Christianity.
We humans have let hatred rule us for too long, we have given birth to so much digusting things like racism and sexism, sometimes I think we do not deserve the word "homo sapiens" anymore.
--------------------------------
Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi.
So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi. So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

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convallaria says on Jun 17, 2005, 11:54:

Oh and to someone who mentioned the white in South Africa, I have the honour to know three of them. Oooh disgusting racists they are! Just as blatant racism as the banned person above, insulting all my friends. I never dare to give any conclusion about the rest of the group though.
------------------------------
Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi.
So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

Tondé bi ni iru natsu no mushi. So the insects of summer fly to the flame.

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caslug says on Jun 17, 2005, 12:07:

Conva..i think the moral of the aboves posts.. is that WE(people) should strive to treat/judge people as INDIVUDUALS rather than blanket them into a stereotype. EVEN when you(person) been wronged by them... I've know a WHITE S.AFRICAN women for almost 20 years she works in S.African Govt. She was very tolerant of all type of people. She told that YES there are some VERY racist S.African, but not everyone is like that. Actually in S.Africa part of the deal when the ANC took over was that White Africanka CAN/DO live in a separte "reservation" that are segregated by race. It's just if they leave their reservation they have to oby the law of the general society..

PS. I don't agree that Jag should be banned, because all that'll do is have him login under a different name.. rather the devil you know versus the devil you don't..

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007CA says on Jun 19, 2005, 20:45:

Afro-colombians Check out this website - www.afrodes.org
Afrodes stands for Association of Displaced Afro-colombians. These are people that were violently displaced from their land (mainly from the Choco region) and now live in urban shantytowns trying to find work, maintain their dignity and identity, and survive while facing discrimination because they are black and displaced. This is a grassroots organization finding intelligent, creative ways to exist in these horrible urban conditions as the government pushes them aside.

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MYASSYOURASS123 says on Jun 20, 2005, 14:27:

Fucking idiot African-Americans have the right to be whatever they want to be called. Right now it's african-americans. We will inform you when it changes. In the meantime I will call you an idot.
my ass

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