language proficiency

calipro says on Oct 25, 2008, 09:59:

It has been my experiance that the time frame of a non Spanish speaking person to become proficient is between 6 months and never.

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johnny2008 says on Oct 25, 2008, 10:09:

I think language proficiency is a nebulous goal, I have met people that speak English as a second language that actually speak English better than some English people.

Of course they probably wouldn't consider themselves necessarily proficient because they will not normally speak English as fluently as they speak German, Swedish and whatever.

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mranderson says on Oct 25, 2008, 10:26:

I would say 2 years or more.

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Sam Salmon says on Oct 25, 2008, 10:36:

"6 months and never"

Si verdad!

' a la orden!'

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juli says on Oct 25, 2008, 11:51:

The schools in Medellín aren't really that good for foreigners. The imersion is the good part of learning Spanish in Colombia and also Colombian Spanish as a whole is very clean.

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lpdiver says on Oct 25, 2008, 15:17:

Jomilena,

By proficient, I presume, you mean fluent. The language teachers here (South Louisiana) tell my wife to obtain fluency GENERALLY takes two to five year if you work at it. If you don't work at it NEVER. I presume the timeline would apply to learning Spanish.

Proficient on the other hand is another matter. I speak like a five year old. This level of proficiency enables me to achieve all I need when in Colombia. That is, order food, make small talk, obtain lodging, procure directions, but not much else. However I don't intend to teach at a university or take classes at one either. So for ME proficiency has been acheived.

If I desire employment I am horribly lacking.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 25, 2008, 15:47:

I have never had any formal studies of Spanish. I'm both fluent and proficient, but do have a slight accent. Living in Colombia, it took me a couple of years to become fluent and during the first six months or so, I wasn't really working on it. Four years later I was proficient enough in Spanish to enroll at a college in Colombia and obtain my degree in education, studying in that language. So. that 2 to 5 years sounds about right to me.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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babygirl says on Oct 25, 2008, 15:56:

I would tend to agree with you Desi & LP. Two to Five years sounds about right. I've taken a few private lessons, and just recently got Rosetta Stone (awesome I must say) but it's finding the time to practice. I know if I were immersed I'd pick it up a lot faster. I too speak like a 5 year old, or maybe a 4 year old hahaha. That's why the kids are crazy about me when I travel. I get lonely and need someone to talk to hehehe.

PS: I've met Cubans living in Cuba that speak better English that half the Canadians I know. Crazy eh? Just because you're a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean that you speak well. It kind of frightens me to think about all the EFL teachers out there. Actually even some of my daughter's teachers at school too! THE GRAMMAR. Yikes!

Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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lpdiver says on Oct 25, 2008, 16:11:

Of course speaking English perfectly and being fluent are totally different.

While waiting to be united with my paisa (27 months total) I had two different Japonese au pairs. They were both Japonese, and had studied English for 22 years. They knew, spoke, and comprehended the written work perfectly. But were completely unable to communicate in a normal conversation.

Virtually no one in the US speaks that way or slow enough for them to communicate. That is why they were happy to live with me and get true everyday grammar practice.

It really comes down to vocabulary after some basic language skills. And street vocabulary is vital. It may be okay not to use it, but you better know the words.

The importance of vocabulary can be illustrated in the relationship between my wife and myself. We Spenglish a lot because of convience. Our limited vocabulary in each others native tounge is often overcome by blending Spanish and English into Spenglish. Also knowledge of each others vocabulary is critical.

I can present myself very well when I pick and choose the vocabulary and speed. The listener assumes that I understand Spanish well and fire off a response that to me sounds like a dot matrix printer on speed.

When I ask, "Donde esta mis ventanas or Donde esta mi vasos?" my wife knows I need my glasses. We generally know one word that will fit each situation and WE can communicate well. Listeners are completemently perdido.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 25, 2008, 16:13:

After five years I have attained a certain degree of fluency but I find my vocabulary and phraseology is similar to that of my wife. I have started reading novels by writers writing in Spanish and this has helped.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Monita Linda says on Oct 25, 2008, 17:03:

I never went to a school here to learn Spanish, I came knowing nothing, and after 6 months I bacame good at it. Reading helps a lot. Also using terms of the ppl around you helps in gaining fluency, but to be honest I don't really care about learning Spanish LOL. I speak it very fluent but it is not that I study or do anything for it. It just comes with the time and being around Colombians and NOT around gringos.

Poor but Preppy ______Colombia: the only risk is wanting to lay.

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t-wiz says on Oct 25, 2008, 17:27:

For me the speaking part comes much easier than the listening and comprehending part.

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elchantajista says on Oct 25, 2008, 17:35:

Learn the basics but speaking with the natives is a must i never took spanish lessons my spanish is gear towards the streets with a good understanding of the verbs and lots of slang for vocabulary and phraseology, bottom line you can take all the lessons u want but if u don't practice in the real world you will probably never learn it.

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

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Monita Linda says on Oct 25, 2008, 18:41:

Understanding and listening is the easiest for me (I also follow regular colombian university classes in spanish), speaking was/is harder, but I can say everything, know slang, don't have a gringo accent etc.

Poor but Preppy ______Colombia: the only risk is wanting to lay.

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kenblanquito says on Oct 25, 2008, 19:12:

Lived here for 2 years without taking a course, relying on private study and speaking/listening to the people and it was hard and reached "intermediate level" just about with all my efforts.
Later, spent 7 months studying at a college for 10 hours per week and I learnt far more in that time than the previous 2 years. Study and practice simultaneously and you should reach a reasonable level in one year. Live in an "English-speaking bubble" and it will take far longer!

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Monita Linda says on Oct 25, 2008, 20:29:

I find that Americans and those from the UK always have a very strong accent.

I am happy I don't have it and speak fluently. Never took a class here. Just listening to tv, people, classes (normal university classes) and reading.

Poor but Preppy ______Colombia: the only risk is wanting to lay.

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kenblanquito says on Oct 25, 2008, 22:42:

True that most foreigners will never acquire an authentic accent but most of us just want to understand and be understood. Same way as English find it difficult to cook paisa food and Colombians find it difficult to cook Asian food. We are what we are.
Very few Colombians can speak English like an English person either but it does not really matter; if they express themselves well and some of them do; my respect.

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lpdiver says on Oct 25, 2008, 23:06:

As I tell my wife there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an accent. We ALL have them.

ts

"cook some rice!"

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Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 26, 2008, 00:04:

Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 26, 2008, 00:05:

babygirl says on Oct 26, 2008, 00:16:

I can mimic accents and pronunciation very well, which get's me in to trouble. So for example with stuff I'm really comfortable with, like ordering from a menu etc... I sound great! THEN I get rapid fire Spanish in return. hehehe. I can understand and read a hell of a lot more than what I can speak though. I'm a bit shy and am really hesitant about speaking Spanish. I'm more comfortable writing something out, but it takes me a bit of time too :)

Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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