I've Just Finished Luis Eladio's Book

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 17, 2008, 10:24:

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 17, 2008, 11:16:

Is it really juicy or does he go in detail about the politics involved in the kidnappings? Because to be honest with you to me the most important thing in reading this would be to read the "mundane" details of his captivity and his release. Other than that, I'm not interested.

Diana

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 17, 2008, 11:56:

It's more about the every day life in the camps. Very little political content. As a matter of fact, I expected more of a horror story. It was n uncomfortable, monotonous, boring, miserable, humiliating experience, but there was also moments of friendship, solidarity, mutual help. He has an extremely high opinion of Ingrid Betancourt, as a person, as a woman, as a human being.

It's a very humane story, in simple language (y pare de contar)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 17, 2008, 12:11:

My husband's in Colombia right, I'll ask him to get me a copy. Thanks Desi.

Diana

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el_scouser says on Nov 17, 2008, 14:58:

Desi, when you are back in Europe where do you get your spanish language books from? I always try ebay Spain but rarely find the things I want

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 17, 2008, 15:53:

I said the same thing Desi. I enjoyed reading it immensely, and I said it is very simple Spanish. I also said he really got to know Ingrid.

el scouser, you can buy it at amazon.com.

Feliz Navidad!

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el_scouser says on Nov 17, 2008, 16:03:

cheers Lisa Zee

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el_scouser says on Nov 17, 2008, 16:15:

......just tried to buy it but problem is most sellers won't ship abroad to UK. Any other ideas?

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 17, 2008, 16:26:

Ask Kat to bring it for you, she is going to Villavo soon. Or any other Brit.

Feliz Navidad!

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gamm2 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 17, 2008, 19:33:

Lisa Zee says on Nov 17, 2008, 20:08:

It is a very easy Spanish to read.

Feliz Navidad!

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 17, 2008, 21:23:

I ordered my paperback copy from amazon.com. They ship all over the world.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 17, 2008, 21:47:

Yo pense lo mismo.
I am glad you are up Desi!

Feliz Navidad!

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 17, 2008, 21:54:

Desi I see you already clean house ;), what a mess and mad house it was here tonight!!!

Feliz Navidad!

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LilaM says on Nov 18, 2008, 08:46:

Yes I read that one too, I think it was interesting lot of details, but there are things not told yet. Let´s wait for Ingrid´s book, to put all the things together between, pinchao, L.E. Perez and Ingrid will see it for sure.

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 18, 2008, 09:41:

I want Clara Rojas to come out with her book and tell us all how she got pregnant in the first place. I'm sick that way.

Diana

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 18, 2008, 10:19:

"I want Clara Rojas to come out with her book and tell us all how she got pregnant..."

Almost certainly the same way people have been doing since time began don't you think?

' a la orden!'

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 18, 2008, 10:51:

Pretty much. She's keeping her lips too tight, it's so annoying. =)

Diana

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billyb says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:00:

"I want Clara Rojas to come out with her book and tell us all how she got pregnant in the first place."

There's a book called "The birds and the bees" that will explain to you how that happened.

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 18, 2008, 13:57:

Ok, then let me rephrase that. I'd like to know how she ended up with the guerrillero's seed. Rape? Voluntary? A failed strategy? Premeditated?

Diana

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 18, 2008, 14:17:

Voluntary!

Feliz Navidad!

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2008, 15:42:

the guerrillero seed? jajajaj that's very funny...

i think or I believe that she thought, that if she would be kind and nice to him, he would helped her to escape or had a better treatment in the jungle. :(

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2008, 20:48:

According to Luis Eladio, premeditated. Her biological clock was ticking, she wanted a baby. But Luis Eladio doesn't really care much for her, he might be prejudiced. Until Clarita herself tells the story we will never know for sure.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:48:

"According to Luis Eladio, premeditated. Her biological clock was ticking, she wanted a baby. But Luis Eladio doesn't really care much for her, he might be prejudiced."

Sounds like she ignored him and he hates her for it.

' a la orden!'

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 18, 2008, 21:54:

I dunno...it sounds more like they just didn't get along so good.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 06:59:

I'll put my money on what Clara says, as opposed as those two other media whores. She and , specially, her mother have always been the epitome of class. Compare that to the hag Pulecio.

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pobrecito says on Nov 19, 2008, 09:59:

Billyb does not admit that Pulecio criticized Uribe. Billyb lacks tolerance.

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 12:22:

our little "winner" is back?

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Mononoke28 says on Nov 19, 2008, 12:55:

Clara Rojas is ugly and bland as crap but yes, she's pretty classy. I THINK, she thought that by befriending the guerrillero and by pretending to be his "girlfriend" she would have a chance to get outta there; but it backfired.

Diana

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pobrecito says on Nov 19, 2008, 13:22:

"winner" ?

Obama won.

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 19, 2008, 17:35:

Billy, read the book, it is an eye opener.

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 19:15:

Lisa, I will, when you read "Ingrid Betancourt, histoire de cœur ou raison d'état ?" by Jacques Thomet first (it is even out in spanish). It is an even bigger eye opener.

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 19, 2008, 19:58:

Was he in the jungle also, how many years?

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 20:05:

If you consider Paris a jungle, yes he was, all his life ;) Why? do you only read books by jungle dwellers?

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 19, 2008, 20:35:

We were talking about being kidnapped in the jungle. I have a felling that book is about how much attention and money the French are paying to her and everyone hates her for it. IF I am not even close, do you care to give me clue?

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 20:44:

Lisa, it was actually released a couple of years ago, and it deals with Ingrid's and Astri's "relationship" with members of the french foreign service, including FM De Villepin (later PM) and their shennanigans in trying to ride roughshod over the Colombian and Brazilian govs to get her freed, missteps which actually backfired on them and led to the FARC realizing how valuable she was to them. It also deals with some of her political maneuvers and associations before she as kidnapped, stuff that I am sure she didn't tell you in that book of hers that you treat as gospel.

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:04:

Thanks, I had a feeling it was something like that. I might read it.
I don`t know about gospel.......... did you read her book?

I always said, and even Eladio talks about how, the more importance they gave Ingrid the higher her price was.

Feliz Navidad!

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romy says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:16:

I wonder if we'll ever find out what "her price was"?

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:19:

I read exerpts of her book, but don't recall too many details, but I might have to read it all again and make an evaluation of how much she told the truth and how much she fudged. I think I mentioned to you before that i've met her and a couple of my cousins know her well, so I don't hate her, just know her to be a flawed human being like the rest of us.. BTW, Thomet is one of pobrecito's cousins, so you know he's not lying :)

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:21:

"I wonder if we'll ever find out what "her price was"?"

Romy, what do you think her price was?

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romy says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:25:

a couple mill, witness protection...

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billyb says on Nov 19, 2008, 21:29:

I can't say I disagree.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 20, 2008, 08:35:

Luis Eladio had also met her before and had not such a high opinion of her from before. He said that she was quite radical, obstinate and a little arrogant. The Ingrid she met in that jungle camp was another woman. He also explains the circumstances around her kidnapping, why she decided to take the trip to Caguan without armed guard, after having been refused (she had been told that she could go in one of the helicopters) the transport and after her transposrt, a rented avioneta was not given the authorization. She waited the whole day in the airport in Florencia and saw one helicopter after another to leave and Pastrana had prohibited them to take her there. Then she was told that the road was clear and that there was no activity on the way. She was lied by the military and Pastrana's people and deceived to believe that the risk was small.

Read Luis Eladio's book and then we can discuss Ingrid Betancourt.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 20, 2008, 10:23:

You are right Desi, Luis Eladio explains in detail how it REALLY happened.

I say you could put someone as evil as Hitler was, put him the same circumstances for 5 to 10 years in that jungle, and he will come out like a little lamb...........

Feliz Navidad!

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goin_south says on Nov 20, 2008, 10:29:

Is the book available in english?

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 20, 2008, 18:07:

"Read Luis Eladio's book and then we can discuss Ingrid Betancourt."

WTF does Luis Eladio know first hand about her kidnapping? Except what she wanted him to know or think?Yet you take that as hard proof. Man, I can't believe how some of you are SOOO naive, LOL. Get real and then we'll discuss Ingrid.

BTW, I don't need to read somebody's book to understand what it's like to be kidnapped by the FARC and held in the jungle, I heard it first hand from my cousin.


"Luis Eladio explains in detail how it REALLY happened"

You too Lisa, explain to us how Eladio REALLY knows? He is just repeating what Ingrid told him. And women are allowed to vote, hmmm hmmm hmm. (just kidding... sort...of)

"The Ingrid she met in that jungle camp was another woman"

You think?

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goin_south says on Nov 20, 2008, 18:12:

comparing Hilter? to las farc? are you kiddin?
Where's our resident colombian jew? GOMEZMAN_5?

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 21, 2008, 18:21:

"WTF does Luis Eladio know first hand about her kidnapping? Except what she wanted him to know or think?"

I would think that after almost 7 years chained to a tree, and trying to scape together, they created a bond. Oh wait...........NO..... that happened at Club Med where they were sipping martinis and chatting under the stars for 7 long wonderful years.

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 18:37:

Lisa, it still doesn't mean he know anything about it, except what she told him. He spent seven years HEARING WHAT SHE TOLD him, he would have heard the same story had they spent seven years at club med. Again, tell us what he knows about it except for what she told him. Don't worry, I won't hold my breath :)

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 21, 2008, 19:05:

Little detail................ Cara Rojas.... was kidnapped along with Ingrid, dahhhh, But whatever,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 19:12:

Did he say he heard it from Clara? And why isn't Clarita out there saying the same things? It is just meant to decrease the public's perception of the STUPIDITY of going to El Caguan and the total egoism of Ingrid's insisting on the army removing soldiers and helicopters from the middle of a battle with the FARC and reasigning them as her private security detail, where they would have faced certain death, and/or torture. But who cares about them, as long as little ingrid got what she wanted, no Lisa?.

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 21, 2008, 19:53:

Sure Billy, I will get one of my Ingrid`s dolls from my shrine and send it to you, so you can put pins in it and do your voodoo to it. LOL Read the book.

Desi................. HELP

(Sorry billy it did not happen the way you imagine)

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 20:15:

As a matter of fact I do have a voodoo doll I picked up in Nawlins, so don't make me do it, jeje. And how is the shrine coming along, BTW? Let me know when you hire the vestal virgins to guard it :)

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 21, 2008, 20:20:

No se preocupe mijo, que depronto se le aparece la virgen!

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 20:35:

Si ves alguna, dile que aqui la estoy esperando. O sera que todas las virgenes estan con Morph?

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 21, 2008, 21:04:

jaajajajajaja, claro que si y si! ( se quisiera, en sus suenos) LOL

Feliz Navidad!

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goin_south says on Nov 21, 2008, 21:18:

billy, you'll likely need MORE THAN ONE OF THOSE DOLLS... as I.B. is a VERY, VERY strong woman. I'll be goin_east soon, so let me know ;-)

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 21:26:

I got it at that voodoo shop on Bourbon and whenever moms visited from Colombia, it was always "ay mijito vote esa cosa", LOL. Maybe I'll buy some of IB's hair on Ebay. What you going east for? Catch a game?

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goin_south says on Nov 21, 2008, 21:31:

el_seminario; yep, there's one shop down there, that mi novia & co. cruised into, and... I thought were finding it a little too comfortable! jeje Que Colombianos! jej

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 21:47:

Man, colombians are the biggest believers in brujeria there are. Seances, reading cigarette ashes, reading how match sticks burned on a bar of soap (don't ask), tarot cards, you name it, they're into it.

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pobrecito says on Nov 21, 2008, 23:51:

billyb wrote: "Lisa, I will, when you read "Ingrid Betancourt, histoire de cœur ou raison d'état ?" by Jacques Thomet first (it is even out in spanish). It is an even bigger eye opener."

In France Thomet is not considered as a serious journalist but as a blind friend of Uribe.
It is your only credible source ?

De que vale la vida si cuando la tenemos parece muerta. La vida es para sentirla, para vibrar, para luchar, para combatir. Eso justifica nuestro paso por la tierra........Jaime Pardo Leal

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billyb says on Nov 21, 2008, 23:57:

"In France Thomet is not considered as a serious journalist"

And in france Jerry Lewis is considered the "King of Comedy", so what is your point again?

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 22, 2008, 00:30:

Sorry, Lisa I couldn't come to your help, I was deep asleep. But arguing with Billy is like talking to a brick wall. The brick wall always knows better.

Luis Eladio spent considerable time with Ingrid Betancourt and I have no doubt that this is the story of the incident as she experienced it. The mayor of Caguan was the only Oxigeno Verde mayor elected and Ingrid had a commitment with these people. She was lied and deceived and left behind at the airport. She was a serious politician at the time, her whole agenda was based on commitment to the people and total honesty. You may dislike her as much as you want, but to believe the fabrications of a sleazy French journalist over the pastuso who spent years with her in the jungle, chained in a tree, floating in the river, being nursed by this self-sacrificing woman carries no credibility for you....but that's your choice. You may believe whatever you like, whatever you're comfortable with.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 22, 2008, 09:33:

Thanks Desi, it is what it is!

Feliz Navidad!

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goin_south says on Nov 22, 2008, 11:14:

""""reading cigarette ashes, reading how match sticks burned on a bar of soap""""

Billyb.... or whoever... Now, THIS! IS serious subject for a new NEVA-BEFORE REPORTED ON PBH, THREAD.

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2008, 14:27:

Desi, whan lisa finishes her shrine to Saint Ingrid del Caguan, maybe she can send you pictures of it and you can build your own. That way the true believers don't have to cross an ocean for their pilgrimages.

"sleazy French journalist "

You had never heard his before before today, so how do you know he is sleazy? Because he doesn't buy into your Saint Ingrid obsession?

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Lisa Zee says on Nov 22, 2008, 16:41:

Forgive me "Pelao' but you are as obsess as any one I seen before. Go an put more pins in IB doll, and pics, burn some incense and do some chanting, maybe she will go away forever! LOL

Feliz Navidad!

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2008, 20:53:

Jaja, but if I did that, you and Desi wouldn't have anybody to WORSHIP.

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goin_south says on Nov 22, 2008, 21:42:

JAjajajaJEJEjjejeje

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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goin_south says on Nov 22, 2008, 21:44:

Now,... HOW about helping give some answers to my Q ?

:""""reading cigarette ashes, reading how match sticks burned on a bar of soap""""

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2008, 21:52:

Yeah, when I was kid and my parents went out, i would go downstairs and hang with the maids, they would tell us ghost stories, let us smoke, change in front of us (ah, the memories), but I digress. Anyway, the used to lght a cigarette and , don't fokin ask me how, claim that they could foretell the future by the pattern of the ashes. The would do seances, and also stick three wooden matches in a bar of soap, and depending in which direction (again, don't ask me how) the 3 matches wilted when they burned, they could tell if their BFs back in Cauca were cheating on them, thinking about them, etc....you had nine ( i think) possible combinations and each meant something, but I was more interested in them undressing, so I can't tell you what anything meant

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goin_south says on Nov 22, 2008, 22:39:

This! Still sounds like a complete NEW THREAD. muy interesante.

""depending in which direction (again, don't ask me how) the 3 matches wilted when they burned, ""

I'm thinkin... someone was blowin somethin', one way or de oter

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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billyb says on Nov 22, 2008, 22:57:

"I'm thinkin... someone was blowin somethin', one way or de oter"

Yes, interesting theory, but as I said, I was mostly distracted.

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Cheers Terry says on Nov 23, 2008, 01:40:

Interesting thread.

I never liked that lady though...

Cheers,
Terry

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goin_south says on Nov 23, 2008, 11:17:

Still... something tells me, Terry, if you met her, you'd like her.

Why Not Colombia?..........Stay Tuned, for more.... utterly worthless, self-indulgent gobbets of nonsense.

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Cheers Terry says on Nov 23, 2008, 12:30:

I don't know GS... I've done quite a bit of work in Paris this year and the owner of the studio I shoot at shares many mutual acquaintances with her and the stories are pretty bad.

Who knows... second/third hand info is almost always complete crap though... and the French do love to gossip in the worst way...

Cheers,
Terry

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