Is this Spanish punctuation or a Colombian thing?

Sylvie says on May 11, 2005, 21:44:

,,,,, It's not just a Colombian thing. It may be a South American or a Spanish thing. I correct my Venezuelan boyfriend's essays for school and he wrote a two page essay with 4 sentences.

Each paragraph was one very long sentence. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of periods.

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utopiacowboy says on May 11, 2005, 21:50:

Yes, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on May 11, 2005, 21:56:

Next time anybody goes up to Montserrate be sure to take a look at the plaque at the front of the church. They had engraved a word mistakenly using 'c' for 's' and later had to correct it, but you can still see the evidence!

To be fair, it's not even a Latin American thing. It is a Western Hemisphere thing. US immigration forms are full of the worst spelling and grammar errors. You'd think with the money they charge in fees they could hire somebody who made it past junior high to proofread their shit!

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Sportfreunde Stiller says on May 11, 2005, 22:54:

school I can fully agree as I made the same experiences. My ex-novia from colombia never used any punctuation and it always was very confusing to read. Her friends wrote the same way and I was wondering if this is how they got it taught in school...

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platano says on May 11, 2005, 23:08:

I don't know if this is just a Colombian thing.... but it certainly is characteristic of writing in Colombia among many Colombians educated in the Colombian school system and I have no idea if it is related to an inheritance from the French educational system influence on Colombia or if it is perhaps just a reflection of the fact that life does just go on without ever really making a full-stop or even needing commas although sometimes the flow may be paused a bit by the use of commas though in real life the flow is continuous so it seems to me that perhaps the Colombian way of writing has some resemblance to the actual stream of consciousness which is going through our minds all the time without cessation although some would qualify it as a kind of madness or monkey mind as do the Buddhists who preach their methods of meditation which vary from country to country as Zen or vipassana or whatever but the point is that in reality life is a constant flow and there is no full stop since even what we Westerners call death is nothing more than a change of clothing or change of residence as we take up residence in a new bodily form to reincarnate and do it over again kind of like that great Buddhist movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray which shows how we have to repeat and repeat and repeat until we finally get it right and learn how to love our fellow sentient beings without generating karmic debt that keeps us on the wheel and though I could go on like this and make this single sentence even longer I think the point has been amply made that what appears to be grammatically incorrect to some may actually be a more faithful representation of life force and it does not surprise me one bit that when it comes to life force the Colombians are at the top of the list just as they are at the top of the happiness rankings [full stop is an illusion and commas are not even necessary and though some may think that the practice of meditation is a comma it is actually an alert relaxed non-judgemental rehearsal for the death experience which as was alluded to above is actually an illusion itself as death is a part of life so meditation is actually a full-on life experience in which life is lived much more intensely due to being in a state of absolute alertness yet being completely relaxed and nonjudgemental].

Plátano, el banano verde
Estudiante del Manual de Urbanidad y Buenas Maneras por Manuel Antonio Carreño
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Lionheart says on May 11, 2005, 23:39:

and now repeat it in CAPITALS please I can confirm, not punctuation at all, and 50% of them only use capitals, making the reading even harder. I have seen this from all Latin American countries, not just Colombia. It also tosses translation programs into a fizzy. I have seen well written letters with punctiation from Colombia ... Maybe it represents the way they talk and think?

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bufalo says on May 12, 2005, 02:23:

Happens all the time My wife is getting her master´s in Barcelona now (she´s colombian) and all her reports are like one or two sentences, capitlalization and punctuation seem optional at times and yes she gives me the "stop being so anal" look when I correct her (her being paisa means I have to choose that time accordingly and know when to stop). I used to correct colombian people´s essays when I was in college, the essays were in spanish as well. Noone knew where the accent marks went and most wouldn´t put the upside-down question mark or exlamation at the beginning of a sentence either. Cowboy, here´s a suggestion that sometimes works for me, as you are correcting her stuff ask her to do something in another room or do it while she is busy. Mine gets really pissed (like its MY freaking fault) when she sees how much I correct. I think the look of utter confusion on my part sets her off as well.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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flaleo says on May 12, 2005, 02:45:

My girl does this sometimes, about 50% of the time. I have not seen this from people in AR nor BR nor other S. American countries. I had guessed it wasn't all of Colombia but basically resulted from where they were schooled, or what level they completed, etc.

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kernow62 says on May 12, 2005, 04:08:

My wife doesn't have a problem with the tildes etc. She does leave out the leading ¿ and ¡

I have never checked to see if her sentences run on and on as others have posted, I will check out something she has written. I am curious now.

I know one thing, her handwriting is terrible!

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juanalejo says on May 12, 2005, 04:42:

Spanish It is actually Spanish Language. When we write in Spanish we use one long sentence as long as it is one general idea. We use the "entonces, y , sobre, a través, además, etc" to join the different phrases. I remember learning English and having hard time with the famous run ons. Although I can say their should be a few commas in the middle some where, to catch you breath as you read.

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Caballista says on May 12, 2005, 05:07:

La nueva escuela? no hay excusas!!!!! No estoy de acuerdo con quienes dicen que las colombianas no usamos signos de puntuación y que todo lo hablamos en Mayúscula. No se puede generalizar.
Muchas veces quienes escriben por este medio o cualquier otro que requiera un teclado, no saben o no se preocupan por aprender a utilizarlo como es debido. Y sí estoy de acuerdo en que se debe escribir correctamente, pues asi se aprecia mejor el mensaje.
Yo estoy aprendiendo a hablar y escribir Inglés, tambien Griego, donde también se usa mucho puntuacion y tildes, muchas veces dos tildes en una sola palabra y otras tienen tilde, pero el acento se aplica en otra letra; a la vez estoy aprendiendo acerca de computadores, (lo bàsico), por mi negocio y me siento feliz de tratar de hacerlo lo mejor posible, aunque reconozco que es muy cansón no tener una forma màs rapida de escribir, sin tener que perder tiempo buscando las forma de agregar las tildes.
También la forma de muchas personas escribir es la enseñanza en los colegios que no se preocupan de corregir la ORTOGRAFIA. Cuando yo estaba en el Colegio, utilizaban una frase muy antigua: "la letra con sangre entra". Más esfuerzo por favor para no destruir nuestro hermoso Castellano. En el mundo entero los Colombianos tenemos fama de hablar el mejor Español, asi que no perdamos ese título.

Gracias.

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 12, 2005, 08:03:

Interesting aside In general, when you translate Spanish to English you end up with about 25% fewer words. Maybe it's all the "ands" linking the run on sentences together.

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ColombianoX says on May 12, 2005, 08:28:

Well, I also noticed some really long sentences in "One Hundred Years of Solitude" (which by the way is a much better book than "Feast of the Goat", he he) and Gabo ended up getting a Nobel Prize for writing like that, so I guess it can't be that bad.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 12, 2005, 09:18:

Copete says on May 12, 2005, 09:35:

Who's wrong? What you guys seem to be complaining about is that Spanish sentences are too long and that therefore there's something wrong about Spanish. Sounds like complaining that German words are too long, and that therefore there's something wrong with German. Maybe you should rather learn how to read in Spanish, rather than ask for Spanish to be written with English punctuation. I admit it's not easy to learn how to read long German words, but you must do it if you wish to become a competent German reader.

As for Spanish speakers learning how to write in English, yes, it does take time to get used to putting periods every 5 words, so just be patient. It's just a philosophical difference. A competent Spanish writer is one who can string long sentences together while maintaining coherence, rather than one who can chop them into simple chunks. A Spanish essay that uses 5-word sentences would seem almost child-like.

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ARMacleod says on May 12, 2005, 09:40:

All the difference in the world. In the seventeenth century. On accepting the request to apologise for calling a fellow parliamentarian a liar, the politician made the following statement before the House of Lords:

"I hereby apologise for calling the honourable gentleman a liar for that I am sorry. The honourable gentleman may insert or ignore the appropriate punctuation as he sees fit".

The above statement can be interpreted in such a manner as to have two completely different meanings.

Pax vobiscum

James.

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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N2Aquatix says on May 12, 2005, 10:02:

BS Okay. Cut the BS and the endless excuses. I took Spanish in college for 3 semesters and I can tell you that there is punctuation in Spanish which is even more severe and abundant than in English. If people don't punctuate, there is something wrong with their concept of the Spanish language. My novia doesn't punctuate at all and it's very frustrating. Sometimes I wonder what they teach people in school down there.

Jay

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 12, 2005, 10:21:

Gabo wrote a short story (about two pages long) that was just one sentence all. No punctuation, whatsoever. I can't remember the name of the story but it was in one his short story collections, though not in Funerales de Mama Grande.
I think it's pretty much a generation thing writing with all caps and no punctuation; mostly internet thingie. The few people who still write hand-written letters use the normal punctuation, the newspaper articles do too, and I'd think losing the punctuation is just basically sloppy writing.

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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N2Aquatix says on May 12, 2005, 10:24:

I Agree I agree, Desi. :)

Jay

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 12, 2005, 10:25:

and tinto, I'm very suprised you found "La fiesta del chivo" a better book than "El otoño del patriarca". I didn't like La fiesta all that much, but then again, El otoño is not one of the best García Marquez either.

"Los funerales de Mama Grande" and "El colonel no tiene quien le escriba" are probably the absolutely top García Marquez.

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 12, 2005, 10:48:

Differences of style One thing about Spanish vs. English when we're talking about correspondence is that Spanish is much more indirect. Sometime look up some high level letters written in Spanish. Then compare them to ones written in English. Basically, in English, or American English at least, we like to get right to the point. Spanish correspondence circles endlessly around the point like a shark before going in for the kill. That's why we gringos are often considered overly direct and sometimes rude.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 12, 2005, 10:56:

There was a time when I read every book of Vargas Llosa, Gabriel García Márquez, Jorge Amado, Carlos Fuentes etc. etc. renown LA author I could find. Paz, Puig, Borges, Allende...but I have to admit that the two books that I liked best were "La Voragine" and "Cien Años..". I read "Vivir para contarlo" and wasn't much impressed. I can't even be bothered with GGM's latest, hopefully his last, if that's all he can up with now. It's definitely high time for him to give it up. He will go down in history as one of the greatest writers of our times and any further writing will only damage his reputation now.

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Qubo says on May 12, 2005, 11:31:

I agree with DESI I think it has more to do with the new generation being more relax and careless. For example I'm sure no one proof reads b4 hitting the "post comment" button. It can be a problem when the younger generation that really thinks its correct grammar. I've met many "hispanohablantes" couldnt tell you the difference between pluscuamperfecto and imperfecto which also has to do with the level of education.

I remember going to a colombian restuarant and the menu had "Bevidas" instead of "Bebidas" and I asked what was that and they said Oh in colombia that was ok which i seriously doubt.


BTW, i thougt "La fiesta del Chivo" wasnt all that great. Gabo's work really captivates the reader as though he/she fell inside the book. Although his last book wasn't great at all"Memoria de mis putas tristes", I felt cheated and not satisfied in comparison to his other works. BTW, I'm sure GGM can differentiate or knows better but simply decides not to use punctuations and commas. The problem is most people can NOT differentiate which cuases a downward spiral handed down generation after generation..

Foi um prazer..Obrigado
C'etait un plaisir..merci beaucoup

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 12, 2005, 11:31:

If you can't be bothered? How do you know his last book isn't good if you can't be bothered? Just curious.

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Qubo says on May 12, 2005, 11:47:

Good point Mr. Hollywood But its not only english and spanish...All dialects of the Latin language paints a better picture than english. My point of view, english goes in head first w/o floating endlessly around the point. Thus, IMO english is the worse language to pick up girl..LOL..Thank good for french,spanish & portuguese which I can speak...

Another observation french vocabulary uses more archaic latin words and beats around the bush way more than spanish. Portuguese is like a drunken spanish speaking person using french syntax...LOL...Anyway, great observation...All though the british makes english sounds evasive more than americans. Hmm? I wonder why?

Muito obrigado...tchau

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Qubo says on May 12, 2005, 12:03:

Desi ur right again!!!!! Gabo's last book was ridiculous. Sorry guys..i didnt mean it a bad way...It seems like he rushed it or just doesnt have what it takes anymore..I, too, thinks he needs to throw in the towel b4 losing his reputation. Its kinda perverted him sleeping with or his attempt to sleep with a little pobrecita morena for his 90th B-day. Rather he finds himself going back in his past and thru the black little girls rough life which hasn't even started he redeems himself...Que porqueria!!!! Sounds like a pedophile to me having sympathy for his poor little victims who will be traumatized for the rest of their lives...

And to think I was killing myself to be one of the first to get this back...very disappoint....c'est dommage

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 12, 2005, 12:07:

I haven't read it but I've read reviews and some short passages sent to me by a friend in Colombia. I decided not to buy the book.

Cheers,
Desi

(and yes, Qubo, paedophilic lit is not my cup of tea either.)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 12, 2005, 12:09:

Qubo says on May 12, 2005, 12:13:

LOL That was 2 funny..I dont think it was NOT controversial at all..The guy paid his dues and is just fustrated at the urban youth many blacks but alot of hispanic parents should send the same message to their kids as well. I think he blasted off his comments and it threw people off guard...LOL....but hey its the truth...

On the other hand little white kids need to stop getting a piggy back ride because of who their parents know at the administration offices and should get a job based on their performance...hmmm..lets start off with the dude that got re-elected becuase his last name sounds like alot of roses...

LOL....my opinion...but lets stick to the topic...

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Qubo says on May 12, 2005, 12:33:

DESI The style of writing and the captivation is still there but the story line is just horrible...I felt awkward reading it...I was shocked...

Anway, have u read.."Capitan Alatriste" by Arturo Perez-Reverte..

My favorite is, dont laugh, "Le Petit Prince" by Antoine Saint Exuphery.. its a classic....

So many books to read but so little time..C'est chiant..bueno, poco a poco mi hija.. Pues, que tenga una buena noche...

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 12, 2005, 12:40:

No, I haven't read the book you mentioned. I love Le Petite Prince too, and also Vol de Nuit (pardon my French:)))from Saint Exupery...
now I've have to get back to my packing, I'm off to Verona and Venezia tomorrow:)
Gracias, lo mismo te deseo,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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kernow62 says on May 12, 2005, 12:52:

Well, I hate to be contrary but I looked at some writings my wife did in university and all the tildes, puntos, etc. are all in place, even the upside down question marks that she stopped using since learning English.

I also have a letter written by her father, one by her aunt, and they both seem to have the bad habit of being contrary to the majority of posters, they used proper punctuation. Wonder why they would be different, could it be a cachaco thing?

Now if it as an E-mail then it all goes out the window, but this happens in English too.

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vladimiro says on May 12, 2005, 15:37:

Run on sentence "Gabo wrote a short story (about two pages long) that was just one sentence all. No punctuation, whatsoever."

The long run on sentence is a literary style first developed by the Russian writer Leonid Tsypkin in his small book "Summer in Baden Baden". Its a breathless, feverish style that I think is supposed to add to the intensity of the story. I read that the Nobel writer from Dominican Republic(I forgot his name) has used this style too. SUmmer is Baden Baden is about Fyodor Dostoyevskys compulsion for gambling and is a fictional but very factual and realistic biography of Dostoyevsky.

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mzzmerized says on May 12, 2005, 16:21:

OK...I have another problem...SPELLING!!! Spanish is my second language, so how come I can differentiate between the "v" and the "b"? I see this all the time! Colombians spelling words like "barios" instead of "varios" or "estube" instead of "estuve". And don't even get me started on "la mano" and "el arma"!!!! (al poder)

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Mariangela says on May 12, 2005, 21:55:

All depends... A well-educated Colombian (academically speaking) should know grammar and punctuation rules. It depends on the level of the school they attended and their discipline and love for the language. I am a Biologist, but was able to become a translator also thanks to my good use of the language. I owe it to my good Spanish teachers in high school and to my father, who taught me the power of well-written words.

Mariángela

Mariángela

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utopiacowboy says on May 13, 2005, 15:35:

Well my wife has a degree in Chemical Engineering and she prides herself on being well-educated but when she writes, it is just one big long sentence without any punctuation whatsoever. From the looks of this thread this type of writing "style" appears to be common.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on May 13, 2005, 16:06:

And the arbiter of the proper writing style is...? Check out the editorials in the online Colombian newspapers.

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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kernow62 says on May 13, 2005, 18:09:

UTC is it that your wife never learned proper usage or just chooses not to use it? No disrespect intended, just curious. My wife has stopped using the leading ¿ & ¡ since moving to the US but that's about it.

I know Mariangela mentioned her father's influence and I think the same was the case with my wife. He is very proper and old-fashioned and a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to the language, I assume some of this helped her.

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adrimm (Moderator) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 13, 2005, 18:37:

Gomezman5 says on May 13, 2005, 18:48:

It's probably a "Spanish thing" One of my best friends is this Guatamalan guy who works in the Guatamalan consulate. He was very well educated in Guatamala. He has taken a substantial amount of English classes in Guatamala and here in the states. Yet, when he asks me to edit a letter for him, his writing is horendous. He has good vocabulary, but the run on sentences drive me up a wall. What I find curious is that he does not talk like that. So why does he write differently than he talks??

I keep correcting his writings so that the sentences are shorter and are limited to one coherent thought. But he just keeps saying "come on...you are being picky." Picky?? I told him you are lucky that you work for the Guatamalan consulate because if you were to send a cover letter and resume with writing like this, you would not even get an interview.

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hopeful says on May 13, 2005, 22:25:

I'm with Desi I think that a lot of the run on sentences have to do with the internet generation

When I chat with a friend on yahoo she is quite coherent line by line, but in email it is horrible... all the lines run together and it is hard to separate thoughts

My favorite example - it took me a while to understand this one:

"yes i can talk but only if u call me no more jejejjee", referring to talking on the phone

At first read, I thought she said not to call her any more. Needless to say I was worried. But after re-reading and putting in the punctuation where a gringo would expect it, it would read:

"Yes i can talk but only if you call me. Because I can't call you anymore." This due to the cost of international calls

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carolain11 says on May 14, 2005, 06:11:

you know my spelling is perfect, ever since I was a little girl, I knew whether a word was with "c" or "s", or if it had a tilde or not, it was seriously amazing, I know how to use commas, colon, semicolon, etc. but I guess that we just write like we talk, and that's it. plus, we're lazy, so typing is really a pain in the arse, you know, using capital letters and stuff... you see, I already got tired of typing

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Barbaridad says on May 15, 2005, 03:08:

El otoño... A mí me parece que tanto las largas frases como la falta de puntuación en 'El otoño del patriarca' parecen ser un medio estilístico para subrayar el inevitable e inescapable flujo de los eventos hacia la decadencia total del dictador. Las frases se van haciendo cada vez más largas hacia el fin del libro, confiriéndoles una cierta urgencia y arrastrando al lector hacia el abismo final... Me parece muy bien hecho y es un excelente ejemplo de la unidad literaria de estilo y contenido.

Estoy de acuerdo con que las frases castellanas muchas veces son demasiado largas (y ustedes se darán cuenta que yo tampoco estoy utilizando mucha puntuación). El caso es que, mientras hay unas cuantas reglas muy claras e inequívocas para la acentuación, no conozco ni una regla de puntuación en español. Voy dispersando mis comas más o menos al hazar... En alemán - mi lengua materna - existen reglas bastante claras (aunque no siempre muy simples), y me interesaría saber si hay algo así en castellano.

Muchos saludos!

La alemana paisa

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colombit says on Sep 12, 2005, 18:06:

they do not how to write! Sorry, for this comment. We use puctuation as you do in English or French. Maybe we do not how to use very well, but if you make an essay for at a school, make sure you use puctuaction. Also read spanish book, I am 100% you will see all the puctuacion you want, from , .: ( ) - -- and much more. I think what happens is that colombian people is not well teached at college or high school, also we only read 1 book per year compare to 20 books for other countries. The more you read the better writing you will have.

I hope you understand this. bye.

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maraca says on Oct 17, 2005, 21:36:

Long sentences Please be rational!!!
I read all this comments since im trying to collect some good slang words for my norwegian boyfriend. Any way, i couldnt get any more annoyed at the way some of the people here talk about spanish writing. I does not have anthing to do with where you studied or your social class. Spanish is just like that. Long sentences. Learn spanish before making such silly comments about your partners and our language. I totally agree with Copete. Are germans completely silly their because their words are too long???

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maraca says on Oct 17, 2005, 21:46:

But of course my comment was a good example of what can also happen... Either in spanish, english, french or german, some people just write too fast and careless.

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poco says on Oct 18, 2005, 16:28:

Only in Colombia
Probably a Cali Colombia Spelling

Nice Matching license plate and vest !!!!!!!

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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dioi says on Nov 3, 2005, 10:28:

regarding run-ons, commas and capitals nicely put platano. Also, about the capital letters, I know that in French, the reason for using capital letters is to avoid having to put in all the accents. When using capitals, accents aren't necessary. This may be the same for Spanish typing.

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Lucia Rojas says on Nov 3, 2005, 11:05:

Yes dudes get real! Are you really discussing wether it is a colombian thing??

I agree with Copete and desi... It's just another language with different rules and different ways of expressing things. Long sentences are a norm. We always use more words... a good translator would know and not complain about how horrible the run-on sentences are. They are not even run-on sentences. we don-t have that grammatical concept. They are sentences and that`s it.
And no it's not spoken the same way it is written... just like french where the spoken language and the written language allow different things.
It doesn't change as fast as english either. For a word to get into the Diccionario de la Real Academia it has to be in use for many many years. English, on the other hand, easily accepts new word and changes.
And some people, here, in the U.S. or wherever, just don't know how to write and don't like to read. and that's it. It's not a problem of the language.

Learn spanish properly and then you can start giving real opinions about it.
chao

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BrujoMontez says on Feb 17, 2006, 08:15:

Punctuation Lol.. I see your point. Ironically your wife may not be as uneducated as you think. many colombians, latin-Americans, Portuguese and Spaniards do not emphasize on punctuation. I know that in the old days, Colombians would use periods where americans use commas and commas were americans use periods. Aparently it is not as important in the spanish language as it is in english. While our spelling, grammar, syntax and so forth is way more educated and advanced in colombia that in other countries, Such things as punctuation and layout aren't given the importance it has in Englisg grammar.

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Coqueton says on Feb 17, 2006, 13:25:

I don´t think they really care much about spelling. I´m not much of a stickler on informal communiques such as email and chat where you can omit the tildes and accents. I tease my girl when she says valla and I say a valla is a fence and vaya is from the verb ir. Sometimes I won´t say a things and will write to her "que vueno que escrives vien." She then gets the point or I'll simply write "ortografía amor." She is 2nd year at the U but somehow she says they never make them learn how to spell properly. She says I spell better because I learned the written Spanish language at the same time as oral and she learned oral first. I think it is an issue of the quality of education. I think they need or should be a bit more strict with spelling in the secondaria and prepa as well as the U.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 17, 2006, 20:07:

What I find interesting is my wife writes English just the same way she writes Spanish. It's just one big long sentence from start to finish with no commas, semi-colons or any other punctuation in sight.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 17, 2006, 21:49:

I remember this thread My earlier post says it all. Yea....nohting has changed with this guy. His sentences go on in the classic run on form. It's not only the fact that he does not use punctuation. Putting in all the punctuation in the world is not going to make a difference if the sentence is fundimentaly too long by virtue of the fact that it includes too many ideas.

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 17, 2006, 22:57:

hey why wake it up? It is a spanish language thing. Sentences in spanish are longer than sentences in english... it will be hard to find anything with short sentences in spanish language. Read the quijote... whatever.. you'll find sentences that go on forever....french is also different, italian is also different... I dont get why you gringos question it so much... it is how it is... thats it.... dont start trying to change spanish laguage because you think sentences should be shorter...just assimilate... if you are asking yourself: "why do they write long sentences?, they dont know how to write" then you just havent assimilated anything in the language and you probably wont be able to write good spanish ever.........

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 17, 2006, 23:28:

Lucia.....It's not that simple It is not a question of assimilation. As in English, there are some people that simply cannot write well. I'm Colombian American. I read well written Spanish publications like, El Tiempo,(periodoco) and Semana
(revista)as well as the local Newspaper in Spanish here in Chicago ..which is La Raza, and these writers all write very well with shorter sentences that reflect one idea.

While earlier on, Juanalejo said Spanish uses words that are best described as a kind of ....connector, they are still used sparingly. For example, entonces and ademas mean essentially the same thing in English, and they are used in the same way. They are not used to make the written sentence go on forever with a plethora of thoughts, only to find a period ending a sentence because it is placed at the end of a paragraph.

I think what we have here are cases of illiteracy that nobocy wants acknowledge. That has to be true in at least some instances. English has it's fair share of people that cannot read or write properly, and I would venture to say that among the people who speak Spanish, the same is also true and maybe so to even a greater degree...

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 18, 2006, 16:32:

"dont start trying to change spanish laguage because you think sentences should be shorter...just assimilate" So is that what I should be telling my wife when she's writing ENGLISH? "Listen bitch, I got the word from PBH, just assimilate!" I don't care if her Spanish sentences go on for miles but it's frigging embarassing to write English the same way. BTW, French is not that much different from English in its punctuation, sentence structure and writing style. I guess it is a Spanish thing.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 18, 2006, 17:20:

if your wife doesnt write well in english, it is not a problem of the spanish language
she just doesnt know how... teach her
and have her read a lot in english so that she can get the feel of the language... no need for the bad language dude. teach her. Writing in a foreign language is the hardest thing. Writing in french is nothing like writing in english... so... deal with it... and teach her
or maybe shes just dumbbbbbbbbbbbbb... run forrest, run

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jmw says on Feb 18, 2006, 20:22:

My novia writes really long sentences in spanish. To be honest, I think it is cute and endearing. I know she is very smart so I am not concerned. If she chooses to do this in English as well, so be it. One thing I know about people, they rarely change because someone points out the negative. But often, people will change when the positive is pointed out.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 19, 2006, 09:09:

I was born in Montreal and grew up in Quebec. I read all the French classics in their original language. Maybe you should try it and you would see that no, the French writing style is similar to English. Here is an example:

"Le rôle de l'enfant est d'instruire le narrateur. Il lui apprend de fait beaucoup de choses, mais deux aspects introduisent souplesse et profondeur. D'abord le Petit Prince n'est pas un petit docte de l'enfance qui dispenserait mécaniquement des leçons. Il est, au contraire, fermé sur lui-même, plein de réserves et de réticences. S'il enseigne, c'est à l'occasion et peu à peu. Narrateur et lecteur ont fort à faire pour combler les vides, imaginer ce que l'enfant ne fit pas. Moteur quasi policier du récit, mais qui tient avant tout à l'étrange personnalité du jeune héros. Ce dernier, par ailleurs, qui sait, semble-t-il, tant de choses qu'il ne dit pas, est lui-même, sinon ignorant, du moins quelqu'un qui a besoin d'apprendre et de recevoir des leçons. Les fleurs de la Terre et, surtout, le Renard les lui donneront."

Notice that the paragraph above is not just one big long sentence. Notice the use of commas and periods.

BTW, I had only turned on private messages to get a message from Kat and forgot to turn it back off. So skip the hate mail.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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silviat says on Feb 19, 2006, 15:18:

same problem here I write long sentences in spanish and it was totally ok. I did it in my university papers and stuff and I never had any problem.

Now I am trying to adjust my writting to english, I am taking an english composition class and it has helped out a lot. It takes a while but is not impossible

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 19, 2006, 17:25:

but of course long sentences in spanish have commas too... if they are not putting them in.. it is because they don´t know how to write.

" Y le miro a los ojos y veo al nazi de camiseta blanca y pantalon verde oscuro y botas negras hasta la rodilla, mirandonos como no le subiamos al palo y le robabamos almendras negras, negras como los ojos de Lulita, y que el nazi masticaba palabras en aleman, de eso tambien me acuerdo."
Andres Caicedo- Caleño writer

" Con el paso de los años-de muchos años- esta niñita se convertiria en Alicia Arnaud viuda de Loyo,la anciana encatadora que vierte la leche en jarras y evoca recuerdos felices, sentada a la mesa de su cocina en la pension Loyo, de Orizaba."
Laura Restrepo- Colombian writer

" Su tipo era el contrario: esas ranitas escualidas por las que nadie se tomaba el trabajo de volverse a mirar en la calle, que parecian quedar en la nada cuando de quitaban la ropa, que daban lastima por el crujido de los huesos al primer impacto, y sin embargo podian dejar listo para el cajon de la basura al mas hablador de los machucantes."
Gabriel garcia Marquez-- en los tiempos del colera...

all ong sentences... all with commas....

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 19, 2006, 17:30:

" Habia tomado nota de esas observaciones prematuras con la intencion de escribir un suplemento practico del Secretario de Los Enamorados, pero el proyecto sufrio la misma suerte del anterior despues de que Ausencia Santander lo volteo al derecho y al reves con su sabiduria de perro viejo, lo paro de cabeza, lo subio y lo bajo, lo volvio a parir como nuevo, le hizo trizas sus virtuosismos teoricos, y le enseño lo unico que tenia que aprender para el amor: que la vida no la enseña nadie."

Gabriel garcia Marquez-- El amor en los tiempos del colera

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 20, 2006, 09:00:

Which proves my point. In Spanish long run-on sentences appear to be the norm.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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jccg says on Feb 20, 2006, 13:14:

Of course, it is not rigth puntuation in spanish is a comun mistake in women writing. It is not by the lack of level in schools, that is not bad. The problem I guess, is based in the poor reading culture in colombian people.

This is just the true!!

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 20, 2006, 14:21:

hate mail? you crazy man! I just wrote, very nicely, asking you why you called me a bitch.. you read it anyway so thats what matters.... sorry you have a wife who doesnt know how to read or write... that is certainly not our fault!

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Lucia Rojas says on Feb 20, 2006, 14:23:

she's embarrasing... you said it, I didn't.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 20, 2006, 14:59:

utopiacowboy says on Feb 20, 2006, 18:53:

No, Lucia, I did not read your message. I just deleted it without reading it. And no, I did not call you a bitch. When I said, "Listen bitch, just assimilate!" that was what I imagined you would have ME say to my wife based on your silly comments about assimilating. After all, that was what you were telling me.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mjpinzon says on May 19, 2006, 20:56:

I agree and disagree I agree that some people from back home write like if periods, commas, etc were invented by anal, for anal, to anal people. However, not all of us are like that. Yes. In Spanish, sentences are longer, compared to English. Tell me about it after getting my papers back filled in red ink in Technical Writing, during my college years in NC. In there I learned that I should write, like what I thought 4th Graders should write.In Corporate America, the faster and easier you transfer the idea to the reader, the better; There's less chance to have a miscommunication error. Forget about passive voice in English. Everything should be written in Active voice. For example:

The red ball was hit by the kid. (wrong)

The sentence should be written:

The kid hit the red ball.

See the difference? Well, if you don't see it, don't worry. It took awhile for me to convince myself.

In Spanish, if you write in the style I thought 4th graders should write, your sentences look choppy and you sound ridiculous as a native speaker; Like if you were just learning Spanish. I guess, compared to English, the more complicated you structure the sentence, the smarter you sound and don't forget scholarly.

I am not saying that one is better that the other. They are just different. I can't tell you why is that. However, I have to say, that when I'm reading in English and I see a long sentence not only kills me but bothers me. However, if I read a text in Spanish that is structurized like English texts, they sound dull and boring.

You might disagree, but it's just my opinion.

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mjpinzon says on May 19, 2006, 21:00:

I disagree with you Not all of us had poor education. On the contrary, I found myself being the "smartie pants," although I am not, among my friends and colleagues. I had a great education back in Colombia and a great foundation to continue learning.

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utopiacowboy says on May 19, 2006, 21:46:

You make a very interesting comment. I agree with you that short, direct, to-the-point sentences are suitable for English. Maybe this style doesn't work for other languages such as Spanish.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on May 20, 2006, 07:26:

Here's Roy Orbison and his new musical bum!

Here's Roy Orbison and his new music album!

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utopiacowboy says on May 20, 2006, 10:51:

Pretty amazing but it actually works.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on May 20, 2006, 15:58:

Does it also work in Spanish? I assume it does because the brain is the same, only the language is different.

I would like to see an example in Spanish.

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Gomezman5 says on May 20, 2006, 20:21:

Does what work? What are you guys talking about?

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kernow62 says on May 20, 2006, 21:55:

The way the human mind fills in the missing or mixed up letters in words to make totally legible words out of gibberish.

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