Is this a reason to move to Colombia?

britabroad says on Apr 13, 2008, 15:16:

I disagree. From my own point of view Colombian health care is far better than in the UK. There are no waiting lists to see specialists, and the medical expertise of those specialists is also far better. Doctors here seem to actually care about their patients.
In the UK people die while waiting up to 10 months just to see a consultant, having been referred by their General Practicioner. And if you're over 60, forget reaching 61 if serious illness sets in. According to the National Health Service you're not worth saving as the costs would be too high. The only way out is to go private, which costs a bomb.
In Colombia, you can go private relatively cheaply, or if you have EPS it's even cheaper. Members of my family (both Colombian and British) have received top notch treatment here in Cali. One of my sons had visited his doctor in London on 3 seperate occasions and was eventually prescribed painkillers and physiotherapy, which lasted 3 months, with no result. While here over Xmas he paid about $120,000 to see a consultant. Result ~ correct diagnosis made which was supported by a CAT Scan, prognosis made the following day and in to a clinic for an operation the next day. Diagnosis, prognosis and treatment all done and dusted within 3 days. In the UK basically nothing had been done within 3 months, and IF his GP had even bothered to refer him to a consultant, he would still have about 3 months of waiting before this appointment.
The irony is that many of the Colombian doctors were trained in the UK and speak very highly of the health care system there. If only they knew.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

SiV says on Apr 13, 2008, 16:59:

A friend of mine is an ER surgeon, and he tells me horror stories about people being turned away for treatment because of lack of insurance and money.

I believe the Colombian system is modelled on the US' system, so it's OK if you have money and insurance.

Personally, I trust UK doctors more. Medical school here (I'm told) is far less demanding.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi

lampltr says on Apr 13, 2008, 17:33:

SiV, Have to disagree with you there my friend....I cannot speak for the major cities, but where my family is...it is the opposite of what you believe. Is very cheap, and on numerous occasions was told "Don't worry about it, we will send you a bill." If the procedure happened to be much, then monthly payments are worked out....I am very impressed!

calipro says on Apr 13, 2008, 17:40:

SiV is correct.

If you don't have money or good health insurance in Colombia they will let you die in the street or worst take you to a cheap hospital!

If you have money and or good health insurance the level of care you will recieve is very high and relatively cheap compared to the States.

Juanes says on Apr 13, 2008, 17:45:

do they have good dental there ?

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

SiV says on Apr 13, 2008, 17:51:

Yes Juanes, in comparison to the UK dentistry is cheap and good, too.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi

aztec says on Apr 13, 2008, 18:20:

Well I have to interject at this point. I have one of the most comprehensive insurance plans in the USA. Will even pay in Colombia.

Now to the disaster in Colombia. Any one of you who have family who are poor in Colombia and find themselves on the State insurance (Social Security) will soon find out how awful things can become. Even though we have since December a doctors order for surgery and chemotherapy (cancer) at the Cancer Institute and even have it scheduled (April 17) the State insurance has yet provided assurance that the bill will be paid. The hospital has held off until communication from the insurance company.

We finally had to file a court order addressed to the insurance company before the money was made available to the Cancer Institute. Today my wife was able to schedule her air plane ticket for Bogotá. She will be there to help the family through this trauma.

People you had better believe only the well off in Colombia have the best health care. You MUST assure the welfare of your family by securing adequate insurance. It is easy to believe you will be covered by the local insurance plans because most of the small insignificant bills will be covered. You are able to easily see a doctor and have most of your everyday pains resolved.

You just wait until you are confronted with a major illness. Many people here don't understand that many of those plans don't cover catastrophic health problems.

Rubito says on Apr 13, 2008, 18:50:

I'm taking all you doubters up on this. I will be making do with social security in Colombia. It's a hell of a lot better than the NOTHING I have here in the USA right now.

The part about "dying in the street" is just absolute utter BULL. People say that in the US and it is no more true here. They are legally required to stabilize you as a bare minimum in both places.

And the Colombian medical system is also NOT modelled on the US one, not by a LONG shot. Why do you people post on stuff you obviously know nothing about? Colombia's medical system is a "two-tier" one, like that of I believe Australia and of some European nations.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

adrienne79 says on Apr 13, 2008, 19:30:

According to the list that Michael Moore references in his film from the world health organization...Colombia is ranked number 22 in the world on health care. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
After watching the film. I was curious and looked it up. I must admit I was amazed and proud for Colombia and happy to live here.
As far as personal experience goes, just last week I wanted to go ahead an schedule my yearly female exam with a doctor. In Texas, I have to call about two to three months ahead to secure a female doctor so I am very used to scheduling in advance. We called our eps hoping to get me scheduled sometime next month or so. I think the receptionist thought we were crazy. They said it was impossible to schedule so far in advance. The most in advance they could take appointments was one week. I was impressed!

Rubito says on Apr 13, 2008, 19:35:

One of the things they do on SS that's very smart is you have to schedule a separate triage appointment, and THEN they refer you to the appropriate doctor (including specialists). That helps eliminate some of the idiocy and waste from the system.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Robert Jorge says on Apr 13, 2008, 21:12:

Almost a year ago, the wife had the nerve to get appendicitis here (in the US). When we were in the local emergency room, there were signs everywhere, placed because of federal regulations, stating that nobody would or could be refused treatment due to lack of ability to pay. She wasn't insured at the time, and she received excellent care. I would dare say world class. After all the bills were received, they totalled close to $5000 usd. I told her that was her wedding gift from me. jajaja

docwilliam says on Apr 13, 2008, 21:24:

Wow RJ, 5Gs, thats cheap!!!

"There's no time to panic"

Robert Jorge says on Apr 13, 2008, 21:48:

That's what I heard Doc. I did apply for financial assistance, and the hospital that she stayed 2 nights in, forgave the hospitalization fees. I paid everything else though, including the doctors doing the surgery, drugs, anesthesia, ER, radiology, etc. I was told the hospital bill may have doubled the 5 grand figure.

bickerss says on Apr 13, 2008, 22:45:

Does anyone have a the details of a good health plan in Colombia and the cost?

miamimike says on Apr 13, 2008, 22:45:

RJ-Here in Miami that Appendectomy(operation your wife had) would have been minimally $15,000 and that is if she had an uncomplicated surgery and a Normal recovery. If not, tack another $5,000 onto the bill. A Friend of Mine here in Miami traveled to Manizales to have his Hernia repaired(herniopathy) and it cost him the grand total of $475--out the door Total. No Complications, great surgeon. 4 years ago when I was in Bogota, a friend's elderly Mom had an Emergency and was taken to a Public Hospital in North Bogota, she had to wait 6 hours (nightime)to see a Doc and after that she was placed in a semi private ward(5 other patients). She would have waited that long in many US hospitals so 6 hours was not at all excessive even by US Standards. All in All, I thought she was checked and admitted in pretty fast time. In the Er, the ER Doc ordered an IV as she was somewhat dehydrated and that was started within 2 hours of the time she was admitted after she was triaged. I heard many nightmares concerning the Colombian Public Health system but that wasn't true in this case and this was a personal experience observed first hand. No repeated hearsay,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

goin_south says on Apr 13, 2008, 22:55:

If you learn (AND DO) how to take care of your own good health...mostly, it's a very secondary issue, in regards to where you want to move to. If you do this, then... you only need be concerned about accidental injuries, ... mostly.

What is everyone so worried about... their health care system... LEARN HOW TO TEND TO YOUR OWN GOOD HEALTH....FOLLOW your own health care system... so you ain't got to rely on a pill for this and another one for this one when that one didn't work...and on and on.

What are you all worried about? making sure the system can keep you alive that last 5 or 10 years on proper life support?

Miamimike... you can find just as many NIGHTMARES in the system in the usa, or anywhere.

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

Rubito says on Apr 14, 2008, 00:23:

I agree with that 100%. The idea is hopefully not to NEED a doctor that much.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

docwilliam says on Apr 14, 2008, 06:30:

The thing that worries me, here in Colombia is the statistics on American deaths. Most Americans killed, in Colombia, are killed as pedestrians. Once your knoggen hits the concreat real hard, there is not much they can do for you. I will try and post the web site that gave those stats...it showed motorcycle accidents as 2nd leading cause of death (to North Americans).

"There's no time to panic"

aztec says on Apr 14, 2008, 06:50:

You can indeed purchase an insurance plan that will place you in the best hospitals and provide the best doctors in Colombia. If you can do that you will have the best health care anywhere!

Once you demonstrate you have the resources the red carpet is rolled out. I am fortunate to have adequate resources and therefore able to secure great medical services in Bogotá.

My wife and I have had no trouble with access to doctors and facilities at La Fundación Santa Fe de Bogotá. http://www.fsfb.org.co/

My procedure lasted eight hours from time I entered the operating room until I was moved to the hospital recovery room. Absolutely first rate medical experience.

The operating room and supporting staff was an eye opener for me. I admit, I did not expect to see a world class facility with such highly trained professionals.

My wife has had two "procedures" at the same hospital. Both required overnight stays.

In deference to some of my "young" friends here on PBH, you would not have been admitted to this hospital nor access to associated doctors unless you could demonstrate adequate resources.

My objective here is to educate those wishing to move to Colombia. First, you can have first rate medical care if you can afford it.

Otherwise, be careful! If you ever need help with a catastrophic illness it can be hard to find if not impossible.

rjstuff says on Apr 14, 2008, 09:16:

My wife had a medical plan for her mother (in Barranquilla, Colombia) and was paying less than $100 a month if I remember. Her mom had Diabetes for several years and died last year after having 2 strokes. She was hospitalized in Intensive care for 4 or 5 weeks, used ambulances three or four times, had some surgeries, cat-scans etc. etc. in those last two or three months of her life - out of pocket costs for all that was less than $3,000. And even the funeral costs were less than $2,000. From what I understand, she got very good care including a therapist who came to her house three times a week, a doctor who visited her two or three times in the last few months etc. (She actually wanted to bring her mother here - but I told her that the health insurance alone will bankrupt us.) I believe the care is very good and the price is excellent. Funny thing they even refunded part of the health insurance (she died in early February - so may be they refunded 80% of the premium.) I was very impressed.
This is in direct contrast to Aztec's assertion that you need to have money to get great care. My wife's mother was basically living with her son and daughter and didn't have any income. Her medicines were subsidized - and yes she only got generics.

Mononoke28 says on Apr 14, 2008, 09:28:

I personally think that the healthcare system in Colombia sucks ass. Big, hairy, sweaty ass. My family has had to go through hell just to get treatment and in order to get an appointment with a specialist you have to wait months even if you have a tumor in your head.

And no, it's not a joke. My uncle was diagnosed with a tumor in his head last May. He was told to make an appointment with a neurologist and they didn't give him one until January of this year. Then in January they called him to cancel because the doctor was still on vacation. STILL. Then they had to re-scheduled until March. Now this is 10 months after they found the tumor, which has not turned into several tumors. The diagnosis... no treatment.

And don't even get me started with my uncle who had a heart attack and has been in a vegatative stage since April of 2004. And my grandmother who died in February of 2007 due to several strokes.

The health sysmtem in Colombia may be more affordable but it is beyond horrendous.

And to address Panda's comment: "... I have never heard of anyone having to sell their homes or fill for bankruptcy due to health problems."

That's because they're already dead by the time they can sell their property, if they have any, just to go see the specialist who gave them an appointment a year later.

Diana

SiV says on Apr 14, 2008, 09:29:

Rubito, I got my info straight from the horse's mouth. As I said my friend is an ER surgeon (at the HUV, Cali) and according to him they constantly receive emergency patients that had been refused treatment at other clinics.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 14, 2008, 09:32:

To answer the OP, it's certainly not a reason to NOT move to Colombia. For any expat with a reasonable source of income, the local medical care in Colombia is fantastic. My experiences have been, on the whole, more positive than my experiences with an equivalent level of care in the USA.

aztec says on Apr 14, 2008, 10:40:

For any expat with a reasonable source of income, the local medical care in Colombia is fantastic. Mr. Hollywood

That is the operative statement regarding health care in Colombia. As I have indicated, I received outstanding medical service in each personal interaction with the system.

dwr says on Apr 14, 2008, 12:41:

The prepaid insurance in Colombia has proven to be very good for me and cheap. I have always gone to Clinica Country or Santa Fe and to be honest my experience has been much better than that in the USA. Prompt attention. The staff seemed to care a great deal. If you don't have prepay, then you go into the other health system which I know very little about and hope to avoid. Rubito. Pay the 100 bucks for the prepay just in case. Or carry a credit card always. Same thing.

poco says on Apr 14, 2008, 13:35:

Rubito is right.. Attention,, I said RIGHT, on almost all points.

The family I'm associated with uses the Colombian Socialized Medical system. A current Colombian Cedula is necessary.

PS: I pay 58,000 pesos per month for private FAMILY insurance. The price DOES not include drugs outside the Hospital. Yes, there is a maximum,, maybe 20 Million pesos per year for the CHEAP policy,, there are more expensive versions,, I think the expensive policy is about 120,000 pesos. Yes,, I’m covered and do NOT have a cedula, tourist visa only. Yes,, I’m listed as the primary payer. NO,, there is NOT a problem. I’ve personally used this insurance. No way I'd be treated using the Colombian Social Insurance,, I don't quality. Would they leave me to die on the street,, well,,, maybe,, who's fault it that,, mine. Everyone should verify U.S. coverage,, no insurance? get a temporary policy or,, don't go,, or take your chances.

No problems with the socialized Colombia medical system to obtaining appointments,, they go to the designated facility, usually a Hospital. There is a wait,, sometimes half a day. Surgery seems no problem,, one woman had two surgeries in the last 5 years. Rural facilities do not have major surgery facilities. Ha,, you need to take a bus or get a ride if you don't live where the surgery is scheduled.

I’ve seen two Colombians over 100 years of age,, and yes,, they were alive.

The Colombian socialized insurance pays for drugs IF YOU ARE IN THE HOSPITAL. I'm fairly sure they DO NOT PAY for any medicine outside the Hospital.

Understanding the details of how a system functions requires DOING IT.

My first experience was 5 years ago when I asked to accompany a family member to the Hospital to get an appointment. A photo copy or two is required to make the appointment. They have a copy machine,, but,, nothing is free in Colombia so there is a charge,, maybe 10 cents.

In a short time she was seen by a doctor who diagnosed the problem and gave her a prescription.

Walked to a pharmacy and purchased a vial of medicine and a syringe. Ha,, nothing free. Returned to the Hospital, went to the,, stick in your ass department,, and got a shot.

A family member child broke his arm and showed up with a cast. The cost,, seems,,, even with Colombian social medical,, about 50,000 pesos and payments were arranged. The vast majority of Colombians are responsible when it comes to paying their bills and is contrary to the U.S. citizens.

Colombia seems WAY behind the U.S. in medical treatment, especially Heart or Cancer problems. IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE. My U.S. appointments are almost instantaneous, actually I can go to one of the designated clinics and receive an immediate appointment. Same with the designated Hospital and my group has several 24/7 emergency centers.

Referrals to a U.S. specialist is immediate if there is a problem that needs immediate attention. Once yearly I get a checkup and my designated doctor,, cost $5.00. If there is a problem,, HE schedules an appointment with a specialist.

Don't have insurance in the U.S. ??? and you are poor,, well,, emergency room treatment.

I've posted this before but,, pay attention,,, a poor person with a modicum of intelligence,, can sign up for what amounts to FREE medical care. This same system is probably available in all major U.S. cities.

http://www.hchdonline.com/patient/onecard/goldcard.htm ,, they have a calculator.

Ha,, FIVE dollars for a U.S. prescription,, cheaper than MY insurance, unless generic,, and generic is the same price,, NO WAY,, Colombia has a cheaper drug price,, if you have insurance.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Rubito says on Apr 14, 2008, 15:49:

Poco, SS DOES pay for prescriptions outside the hospital. There is a copay but it's a small one. I think the highest level on the copay scale is like 2500 pesos for generics.

SiV, my wife's cousin is an ER doctor as well, and she has NO such stories. Although she did tell me do NOT get treated at Kennedy hospital under any circumstances. :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

poco says on Apr 14, 2008, 16:27:

Quote: Poco, SS DOES pay for prescriptions outside the hospital.

That could be,, things may have improved. I think there is something happening that would also provide a small monthly income to anyone over a certain age,, maybe 100,000 COP per month. Probably trying to determine how to fund is a problem. Not much but better than nothing.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Rubito says on Apr 14, 2008, 16:43:

Enough for somebody living with relatives anyways, which most of them are.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

aztec says on Apr 25, 2008, 07:31:

Latest update on our insurance problem in Colombia.

As you remember, we had to secure a court order before continuing with the approved operation for our nephew. Success, the company couldn't have been more ingratiating in their behavior after the judge threatened to put the parties in jail!

Her nephew has just undergone a major operation for cancer. He had the
procedure on Thursday a week ago and today was allowed to go home. The
growth was removed from one side of his neck but complications prevented
completing the other side. It happens the cancer had grown into the
aorta in the neck. Obviously, they could not close off both sides.

The Cancer Institute in Bogotá is impressive. A team of doctors performed microsurgery that would impress and match even the best medicine in the USA! I would not have guessed it!

While the prognosis is bleak, the family is happy to have him just
survive the operation.

SiV says on Apr 25, 2008, 08:44:

Our prayers are with your nephew, aztec.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi

aztec says on Apr 25, 2008, 08:56:

Thanks SiV.